So I guess ICs are "S Tier" now :) / :( ?

[-LzR-]

I got even more questions, but I feel like they are more social thread questions or something.
Is it normal for an IC player in the beginning to be ***** by overly aggressive players? Most of the time my opponents play a careful rushdown game with good spacing so I have a hard time doing anything to punish them and Nana seems to die soooo easily. Is this just a normal path for an Ice Climber player he has to deal with until he learns to not fall for it?

 

[DeLux]

This is normal. For the most part, in tourney, there are two running theories on how to beat ICs. Run away which we have to counter by being super patient. Or Leroy it and try to overwhelm us.

Especially with walling characters like MK and Marth, the overwhelm game can work. However, this style of play is rarer since the obvious and safer answer is to play the keep away and poke game.

 

[-LzR-]

So it's totally normal for a new IC player to lose against a rushdown stuff and get Nana killed in 2 seconds?
That's good to hear, makes me more motivated. Do you think it will take long to learn to deal with it?
What are the best ways to keep Nana and alive?

 

[ch33s3]

I've played every toon link, still think ICs win.

Not getting rushed down is a matter of limiting their options.

Keeping nana is a matter of not letting anyone near her, ever.

 

[-LzR-]

All right then. It's hard for me to limit their options when I don't even know mine well either yet. I'll try and see how it goes D:
I don't want to give up again.
What can the IC do OoS actually? Most of the time I am a sitting duck when shielding.
Also, sorry for asking dumb stuff in social.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Nair, Uair, F/Dtilt, Utilt, Usmash, grab

 

[DeLux]

LzR, try using desynced specials to zone. IBs on the ground means they can't dash at you. Blizzarding under a platform severely limits aerial approaches. Those two options often combo into grab, so you can then let the opponent beat themselves if they try to rush you down

ALSO

[Collapse="Out of Shield Options in terms of speed"]

Frame 0: Shield
Frame 1: Spot Dodge
Frame 4: Roll
Frame 6: Grab
Frame 7: Jump > Aerial Dodge
Frame 8: Walk/Dash away
Frame 10: Jump > Nair or Uair
Frame 11: Shield Drop > Jab 1
Frame 12: Bair
Frame 14: Usmash
Frame 15: Shield drop > Utilt or Dtilt
Frame 16: Solo Squall, Shield Drop > Ftilt or Dsmash, Dash Grab
Frame 17: Shield Drop > IPG
Frame 19: Shield Drop > Fsmash
Frame 20: Belay
Frame 21: Synced Squall
Frame 23: Jump > Fair
Frame 24: Shield Drop Turn around Desync Frame trap with IB out
Frame 29: LD1 Frame Trap with IB out

I do not know the FAF on platform drop, but add the FAF of platform drop to the Aerial Frames - 4 (because of jump squat) listed here and you'll have those options as well


TLDR: Having gone through this, I need to stop being a scrub and doing that Shield > Fsmash punish lol

Also, if you are ftilting out of shield, you would in theory have been able to dash grab as a punish instead[/collapse]

 

[l!nk_aut]

how the snake matchup works:

if you manage to get in bair/ftilt/fsmash/dtilt/dashattack range without getting ftilted,utilted or grabbed (and you've avoided the nades), you win.
sad thing is that there is no save way to do it.


btw: lux forgot the nr.1 characters which rushes us ic's to death. diddy kong. one banana is often the loss of nana since he fthrow's her offstage and then dairs her.

 

[DeLux]

Jab more Link


Or learn more item play

 

[l!nk_aut]

item play isn't that easy with IC's. Instant throw is pretty difficult since Nana re-catches the thrown item instantly pretty often. And trust me. I jab A LOT against diddy.

(Actually I don't even have a problem with diddy but with a very specific diddy, but that's understandable since it's the best diddy in EU)

 

[DeLux]

Ironically the only Diddy that has ever beaten me was Future's Diddy.
But no matter what I do I can't beat Future's anything


btw: If Nana is recatching your insta throws, it's probably because she's trailing behind you and you're moving away from the direction you're throwing

 

[Hylian]

Ironically the only Diddy that has ever beaten me was Future's Diddy.
But no matter what I do I can't beat Future's anything


btw: If Nana is recatching your insta throws, it's probably because she's trailing behind you and you're moving away from the direction you're throwing

I mean he has a ton of IC practice because of me and plays them himself so lol. It's like the same reason I'm really good at IC dittos.

 

[Smoom77]

For the TL debate, I played MJG at Whobo and I beat him in some seriouslies (but of course you can say he was "off his game" lol). I'd like another chance to see how I do a second time.

 

[MJG]

They were serious? I had no idea (no sarcasm) :x

Also, my timing couldn't be better. Lol @ the last couple of pages.

 

[Smoom77]

.

 

[Teh Future]

when mjg played lux last tourney i was at i counted 3 grabs at least one game. then giggled endlessly after he dsmash >daired lux at around 0%.

lux when we played at brainshock i just found you bc I wanted to play you but at the last tourney i actually prepared those characters just for you! I think thats why i did a lot better with moar characters but tbh I was also playing well that day. next time I see you i will practice diddy some bc I really think hes ic worst matchup so lets find out =]]]]]

although idk wolf is stupid.

and you did beat my jogglypuff :[[[ sad day

 

[Roller]

I think Diddy may be ICs worst mu as well.

 

[DeLux]

MJG and Future are the two people I'm most afraid of facing in bracket. Bar none lol


Anyone else I feel like I have a realistic shot, but those two are like the anti-lux aka the darkness and it's spreading.

 

[Rubberbandman]

I think Diddy may be ICs worst mu as well.

Wow, I absolutely love the MU still, I guess I need to play better diddys.

 

[Smoom77]

-doesn't agree that diddy is worst-

 

[JustNoOne]

Well I haven't been posting in a long time but hey I'm back! Been on a break for a year but I'm back to playing Smash and catching up with the metagame!

Now help me :*( Getting smoked by MK in my region

 

[HoRnZ]

dude, any1 whos going 2 apex play Luigi_player and the mu is 30-70 xd i barely have a chance o.o

 

[DeLux]

I selected the Matchup Chart Panel:

I will be moderating. Hylian w/try pants, Smoom, Cheese, Myollnir, and Vinnie have all accepted invitations. E_Alert rejected an invitation so I'll probably be adding one more panelist when I get the chance.

I have a few people in mind, especially non-swf IC mains.

 

[swordgard]

Call me crazy, but I think its ics advantage vs diddy.

But I guess the diddy I played had no ics matchup experience .

 

[DeLux]

Swordgard, you still playing ICs?

 

[Myollnir]

Remove that "i" please.

 

[Smoom77]

I think if youre playing correctly, it could be in ICs favor. I don't know it that well though.

 

[B0NK]

^^^I agree, the way I see NL and Swordgard play it convinces me lol

It's not in my favor though >.<

 

[Mr. game and watch]

I selected the Matchup Chart Panel:

I will be moderating. Hylian w/try pants, Smoom, Cheese, Myollnir, and Vinnie have all accepted invitations. E_Alert rejected an invitation so I'll probably be adding one more panelist when I get the chance.

I have a few people in mind, especially non-swf IC mains.

why not Guest?
Tech chase maybe?
Shoot i'd ask lain:3

 

[Roller]

I like your sig.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Why thank you.
Took me hours to make.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I wanna be in the MU thing

Also, ICs **** Diddy so hard. What does diddy have that beats ICs? Dash attack is grabbable, bananas are SO much better for us than him, our edgeguards are ridiculous on him...he doesn't have much besides the ability to spike nana easily.

 

[Prawn]

you know i always thought that we ***** diddy or it was even at worst but theres this new thinking that he ***** us and im not sure why

though personally i get ***** in the mu

 

[DellSmashman]

Lol, all Diddy has to do is camp IC by surrounding himself with bananas and IC won't be getting in for a while. I don't see why Diddy would directly dash attack at IC anyways......

Trolling? Or wut.......

 

[Myollnir]

50-50 imo.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Our camp > His. IB > his camp, there is no way it isn't. Diddy has to approach, and he doesn't really have a reliable one.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Not to mention there are TWO ICE CLIMBERS.
we can hold BOTH his naners, IB, and then he REALLY has no approach.
I've said it before, popo takes the hit from the banana, nana can catch it, the vice-versa.
Now I'm sure an amateur diddy would **** my ICs, I have trouble grabbing and CGing him, but I'd still say 50:50.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Lol, all Diddy has to do is camp IC by surrounding himself with bananas and IC won't be getting in for a while. I don't see why Diddy would directly dash attack at IC anyways......

Trolling? Or wut.......

You must be trolling; Diddy can't get in safely about 90% of the time because Ice Blocks stop all bananas thrown from the ground, and if throws from above, it only hits one of us so we still have the methods to punish for attempting to come in.
Diddy certainly can't outcamp us, peanuts don't do ****, and you can cover yourself getting closer by simply having nana throw out an Ice block. Also what Esam said.

Not to mention there are TWO ICE CLIMBERS.
we can hold BOTH his naners, IB, and then he REALLY has no approach.
I've said it before, popo takes the hit from the banana, nana can catch it, the vice-versa.
Now I'm sure an amateur diddy would **** my ICs, I have trouble grabbing and CGing him, but I'd still say 50:50.

This is probably the smartest thing I've ever seen you post.

 

[Smoom77]

Just btw everyone, if you think blizzard walling while holding two bananas is amazing, think again. His sideB goes through.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Not to mention there are TWO ICE CLIMBERS.
we can hold BOTH his naners, IB, and then he REALLY has no approach.
I've said it before, popo takes the hit from the banana, nana can catch it, the vice-versa.
Now I'm sure an amateur diddy would **** my ICs, I have trouble grabbing and CGing him, but I'd still say 50:50.

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