Snakes Moveset Discussion #7: UP-SMASH

[Attila_]

i think a list of kill percentages (with perfect do) for this move would be extremely useful just personally... saves us from doing the 'just in case' damage before pulling it out.

 

[Sinz]

Its a great spacing move. Amazing kill move. Use it when MK approaches with Nado. Make sure to learn the spacing for hitting MK out of the nado with it.

 

[Underload]

Its a great spacing move. Amazing kill move. Use it when MK approaches with Nado. Make sure to learn the spacing for hitting MK out of the nado with it.

This man speaks the truth. It's ingrained into the mind of most Snakes that using utilt before ~110% is a sin(z), but it has so many more uses than just killing.

It's a great anti-air move, it clashes with a lot of other moves (SuSa had a whole thread about utilting aerials, remember?), and it can cover angles that ftilt and dtilt can't.

 

[Sinz]

Also, when your opponent is grounded and you think about using Utilt, try using Dtilt instead. It has roughly the same range and gets your opponent in the air as well. They are both great moves. Make sure to utilize everything about Snake.

 

[PZ]

I said the percent that Link and MK survive with best DI/momentum cancel possible. Link's momentum cancel makes him almost as heavy as Snake, so if you survive at percents higher than I've said, then the utilt must have been stale.

It's nothing rare than Snake survives MK uthrow at like 200% because he's so heavy. And everyone know how to DI MK uthrow because you can react to it.

then you never used a wiimote then lulz

 

[professor mgw]

i think a list of kill percentages (with perfect do) for this move would be extremely useful just personally... saves us from doing the 'just in case' damage before pulling it out.

Edited it a while ago with the damage %'s.

U-tilt just fits snake so well.

 

[Sinz]

Here is a chart with all of the kill moves and their %s

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Sinz, I think you got Ganon's and Gdub's u-tilt percentages mixed up. >.>

 

[Sinz]

Thank you for the info I didn't make the list, but I will fix it in photoshop in just a moment.

EDIT:
Fix'd

 

[smashkng]

This neither count kill with perfect DI nor kill with perfect momentum cancel included. Someone please try utilt kill at center of FD with DI and MC with every character with sweetspot, and utilt under the small plataform of BF. (w/sweet, DI behind and the momentum cancel that fast fall fastest, but nothing like TL/G&W/ZSS/Sonic dair as it doesn't reduce knockback at all).

 

[Sinz]

Oh man, you are right. I will try to get my buddy to help me out with finding the percentages tomorrow.

 

[professor mgw]

This neither count kill with perfect DI nor kill with perfect momentum cancel included. Someone please try utilt kill at center of FD with DI and MC with every character with sweetspot, and utilt under the small plataform of BF. (w/sweet, DI behind and the momentum cancel that fast fall fastest, but nothing like TL/G&W/ZSS/Sonic dair as it doesn't reduce knockback at all).

Yeah, this would be pretty helpful, I've been pretty busy lately whuch us why I can't handle this. A little help would be nice

 

[Berserker.]

4/5

It has high priority and crazy killing power, but if it misses it can be punished.

 

[professor mgw]

U-TILT is done.

#5 DASH ATTACK: Discuss!

 

[Epic Kovumon]

I'll just start with the obvious. It can combo into a DACUS

 

[napZzz]

there is no dash attack. Only contact mortar slide

not a troll post

 

[smashkng]

DA does 11% on sweetspot (don't know the sourspot damage). It boosts even more his Oos options, allowing him to punish moves that the pushback doesn't allow to punish with the already great Oos options ftilt and utilt. It also hits MK out of grab releases, which means we have a guaranteed kill set up with a grab on him for kills on him at about 130%.

 

[professor mgw]

2/5

Dash attack is... Okay. I like 2 use it right before someone hits the floor so that I can hit them right back up.

 

[6Mizu]

+Not too bad if it hits a shield
+Pretty strong for a dash attack
+a "good" OOS
+used for DACUS
+good for quick spacing

-can be puished
-(and for some reason that's all I can think of.)

 

[smashkng]

It's definitely better than dtilt. I'd say 3/5.

 

[-Cross-]

Dash attack is most likely 4/5. One of the better dash attacks in the game, it's quick, has decent priority (aren't his shoulders and arms invincible or something?), decent air dodge punisher, can be a kill move, and can DACUS. I really don't understand why this move is getting lower than 3/5. Without it, Snake would not have as great of a camping game because he wouldn't be able to escape as effectively. And not like Snake would approach much, but it is his best approach option. But because it's so quick, it can be used to surprise the opponent once in a while.

 

[professor mgw]

That's because besides DACUS I can pretty much do without it..........

 

[Berserker.]

Well..... DACUS can be out prioritized by any attack since it has no priority and Dash attack has priority anyway but I prefer DACUS.

3/5

 

[smashkng]

DA is safe on shields if you cancel it into Usmash, because you end behind them. And the invincible part of Snake body is not a hitbox. Most DA are unsafe on shields, but Snake's one is an exception of this.

 

[6Mizu]

+Not too bad if it hits a shield
+Pretty strong for a dash attack
+a "good" OOS
+used for DACUS
+good for quick spacing

-can be puished
-(and for some reason that's all I can think of.)

It's definitely better than dtilt. I'd say 3/5.

Yea, I forgot to mention...I'd say 3/5 as well.

 

[Sinz]

Dash attack is a great move. It is one of the moves that helps us in the Marth match up. It can get through Marth's wall of fairs. without it, we would be screwed

 

[6Mizu]

Yea, DA...is good for other campers too. Like Diddy...you can easily pick up nanaz....with it.

 

[Sinz]

Dash attack is only good vs Diddy when he has one banana out. The other times it will just get you punished and lead into a grab or fsmash.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Dash attack is a really good techchaser and really good at punishing rolls, you can even punish some char who tries to roll away from you because of the big range it has.

 

[professor mgw]

I think I change my idea to 3/5 now

 

[Berserker.]

Snake's dash attack is one of the better dash attacks in the game. I think it's pretty good for land chase punishment. I think?

3/5

 

[Attila_]

id would say 4/5.

it makes certain mus much more doable. only way to punish a shielded sh fair from either marth or mk, without it, we'd really struggle against these two. when an opponent shields it, it can be cancelled into a mortar slide and then you run away. brilliant. oh, and when its fresh, it actually kills things. and did i mention snakes arms and shoulders dont even have a hurtbox during this attack? its freakin amazing

 

[Berserker.]

Wait! DA is also fast attacks (even though u-tilt has 37 frames while DA has 42 frames lulz)

 

[Sinz]

Hear me out on this one. Snake has no bad moves.

 

[professor mgw]

Good job with the dash attack you guys, on to the next one

#6 F-SMASH: Discuss!

 

[Berserker.]

Eh, it's too slow but it's powerful. It can be used to edgeguard though but Snake has better options

2/5

 

[smashkng]

It's a 40 frame move but it doesn't mean it's useless. This is the move that should be used when you break shields (it's not hard to break shields with Snake). It has incredible base knockback but uncharged it can't kill heavyweights like Wario from one extreme to the other of FD at percents as high as 100%. It sometimes can surprise opponents that land close to Snake due limitations when they're there.

Also, it hits through Starfox Illusions, so you can surprise them with this.

2.5/5 (better than dtilt IMO).

 

[ErikG]

F-smash can be a great tool if you notice your opponent likes to roll behind you a lot. Uncharged it can punish most rolls, and some characters can be killed off around 50% depending on stage and location. It is also a flashy way to end a D-throw tech chase. It doesn't have a too much of a practical use other than punishing poor moves. This is Snake's "bad" move, and IMO it isn't even that bad.

2/5

edit: Are we going to discuss the Mortar Slide (DACUS) as a separate move?

 

[professor mgw]

F-smash can be a great tool if you notice your opponent likes to roll behind you a lot. Uncharged it can punish most rolls, and some characters can be killed off around 50% depending on stage and location. It is also a flashy way to end a D-throw tech chase. It doesn't have a too much of a practical use other than punishing poor moves. This is Snake's "bad" move, and IMO it isn't even that bad.

2/5

edit: Are we going to discuss the Mortar Slide (DACUS) as a separate move?

I once killed DDD at 20% uncharged F-smash at the edge of pokemon statium 1

And yes we will discuss that seperate.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Fsmash is godly. Rack up around 60% of damage, then punish your opponents really stupid mistake with a fsmash and get a KO.

Let's face it. Fsmash is really a hori-bad move. ~40frames start-up lag, ouch. With another addition ~40 frames cool down time. If we have hard times trying to get a less than 10 frame hit to work, no way in heck is fsmash going to be useful in any neutral stance. Fsmash simply has no place in competitive play except to be an option to use in extremely predictable situations. What those situations are will vary and you have to find them yourself. Observe your opponent to see if there is ANY mistake in their game that you could possible punish with Fsmash. This should sent a clear message to your opponent, "I am being very predictable to get hit with this!"