Snake vs. Olimar

[Berserker.]

What? Snake doesn't have lackluster approach at all. He can use nades CAREFULLY.

Seriously, it's the opposite, Snake can do well approaching too. It's seriously not lackluster at all.

Read Bizkit's summary.

 

[Karcist]

What? Snake doesn't have lackluster approach at all. He can use nades CAREFULLY.

Seriously, it's the opposite, Snake can do well approaching too. It's seriously not lackluster at all.

Read Bizkit's summary.

They are actually decent, but made lackluster by Oli's grabs and purple pikmin throws. I just think that the pikmin throw makes proper nade usage much more difficult.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Olimar's biggest weakness is getting gimped and Snake cannot take advantage of that. Olimar can outcamp snake and nullify snake's lackluster approach options. Olimar can even juggle snake if done right. I would personally say the matchup is somewhere between 55-45 and 60-40 in favor of Olimar.

Actually, Olimar's biggest weakness is priority and snake CAN take advantage of that. Olimar also has a hard time getting back on stage when there's an opponent there keeping pressure on us. Snake eliminates our options in these situations and most of my deaths against snakes are me trying to get off of the ledge, not getting to it.

 

[Berserker.]

And plus, Olimar has to make his landing safe (like Snake) or else he'll get ***** by D-throw or get B-thrown or F-thrown off the stage if he's at a high percent.

Oh btw, Snake's approach is above average/decent and it's still VERY possible to do proper nade usage but it has to be from a safe distance

 

[Underload]

Olimar can outcamp snake and nullify snake's lackluster approach options.

This is one of the things I disagree with the most, and one of the points I see made most often. Here's how I see it. Snake is a camping character, thanks to his various tools (tools = mines, c4, grenades, mortars, nikita). We all know this. Snake gets the gravy by sitting back and forcing you to make your own decisions.

This fact doesn't mean Snake has a lackluster approach. He is one of the few characters that actually scares people when they see him approaching them. Low percents, you get dash shield grabbed or shield drop ftilted. There's isn't another character I can think of that can deal 30%+ with two moves. That's so stupid, it scares people when he even feigns it. Well, unless they're stupid, at which point they deserve a knee and two fists to the face.

At high percents, one of the stupidest, most hilarious, and most effective things I get off on people is dash -> spotdodge -> buffered utilt. People see the spotdodge as a habit to punish, right before they die at 110% because they weren't focusing on DI. Especially Olimar, if timed well. He gets no invincibility off of grabs, and has a fairly large cooldown time off of a whiffed grab. Ignore the Pikmin and hope for no purples, and you can force a mistake.

I got off topic, but I'm just trying to say that Snake's approach game isn't lackluster, it's just outshined by his fantastic camp game.

 

[Turazrok]

This is one of the things I disagree with the most, and one of the points I see made most often. Here's how I see it. Snake is a camping character, thanks to his various tools (tools = mines, c4, grenades, mortars, nikita). We all know this. Snake gets the gravy by sitting back and forcing you to make your own decisions.

This fact doesn't mean Snake has a lackluster approach. He is one of the few characters that actually scares people when they see him approaching them. Low percents, you get dash shield grabbed or shield drop ftilted. There's isn't another character I can think of that can deal 30%+ with two moves. That's so stupid, it scares people when he even feigns it. Well, unless they're stupid, at which point they deserve a knee and two fists to the face.

At high percents, one of the stupidest, most hilarious, and most effective things I get off on people is dash -> spotdodge -> buffered utilt. People see the spotdodge as a habit to punish, right before they die at 110% because they weren't focusing on DI. Especially Olimar, if timed well. He gets no invincibility off of grabs, and has a fairly large cooldown time off of a whiffed grab. Ignore the Pikmin and hope for no purples, and you can force a mistake.

I got off topic, but I'm just trying to say that Snake's approach game isn't lackluster, it's just outshined by his fantastic camp game.

Pretty sure olimar can take snake to 70%ish from a grab, bubs. Did it yesterday.

 

[Underload]

70%ish is a clever way of saying 20-30%.

And oops, I forgot to say "on approach" in that sentence. I was telling myself I have to put that in, yet I still forgot. Without that phrase, then infinites and chaingrabs apply, making me sound like a crockpot

 

[Dabuz]

a good oli can get at least 30-40% from smart grab combo mixups, the highest should be about 60% unless the snake is stupid...even though from their snake is already in the air normally...not a good position...and hilt, stop giving them advice!

 

[Berserker.]

You don't wanna break the MU?

 

[OverLade]

Try just running at him, and if you predict/see/read a grab SHdair over it into him. It's so much ****. It'll kill at like 80% and adds to your mixup game lol.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

How useful is crouching against Pikmin throw? I think Pikmin throw is a huge reason why people falsely believe that Olimar wins the match-up / outcamps Snake.

 

[OverLade]

I don't think it works, though it would depend on the trajectory of the particular pikmin (but that makes crouching useless since pikmin are mostly random). This seems to be a match that camping only works on stages where you have huge amounts of space, but it will still result in CQC anyway.

 

[Berserker.]

White pikmin and yellow pikmin--> Very hard to deal with

 

[Mister Cadaver]

70%ish is a clever way of saying 20-30%.

And oops, I forgot to say "on approach" in that sentence. I was telling myself I have to put that in, yet I still forgot. Without that phrase, then infinites and chaingrabs apply, making me sound like a crockpot

Lol. Tell that to a fresh up smash.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Lol. Tell that to a fresh up smash.

Tell that to Mr. Good DI and Ms. Why Are You Getting Hit by that Upsmash.

edit: at Berk, white and yellows are nothing, just worry about the black and ignore everything else.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

hilt, stop giving them advice!

bad habit i guess

 

[Mister Cadaver]

Tell that to Mr. Good DI and Ms. Why Are You Getting Hit by that Upsmash.

edit: at Berk, white and yellows are nothing, just worry about the black and ignore everything else.

You're saying that like you can't be baited into it. Lol.

 

[Underload]

Usmash deals 40%? Never knew that.

>.>

 

[Mister Cadaver]

Who said that again?

 

[Underload]

You latched onto my reply to Turazrok for some reason, and started talking about a fresh usmash or something. I'm still more than a bit confused as to what you said.

Game & Watch discussion is up everybody, just sayin'.

 

[Mister Cadaver]

Here, let me clarify. What I mean is that a fresh upsmash could potentially kill you after about 40 more percent, which doesn't take too long with Olimar.

 

[Bizkit047]

On FD, a fresh purple pikmin usmash (not charged) won't KO Snake until 105%+ with pretty good DI. Granted it's early for Snake, but that's more than an extra 40% from 30%-40%. Not to mention it's only purples that do it. The others won't KO us until like 125%+. This is all assuming the usmash is fresh too. So to get grabbed from 0% to 40% and get comboed some more afterwards to 105% and then get baited into a fresh purple pikmin usmash would be a pretty hard to set up scenario.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Good thread. Imma go stalk the GaW one now.

 

[Berserker.]

Tell that to Mr. Good DI and Ms. Why Are You Getting Hit by that Upsmash.

edit: at Berk, white and yellows are nothing, just worry about the black and ignore everything else.

But they can reach VERY far distances and they travel fairly fast compared to the other pikmins but the good thing is that they are very easy to kill. What black pikmin? Isn't it purple or something else?

 

[-Coco-]

idk reds kill relatively early too not as early as purple but earlier than anything else and yes it is purple lol

 

[DtJ Hilt]

idk reds kill relatively early too not as early as purple but earlier than anything else and yes it is purple lol

But blues kill more effectively than reds. Reds aren't as useful as blues and purples are against snake. Or even whites, probably.

 

[Berserker.]

At least Purple pikmins are slow and they travel at a super short distance but they're still dangerous because they can kill at low %.

About the blue pikmin, I agree because of Olimar's good grab game and the grab range is pretty good and if it's used with blue pikmin.

 

[-Coco-]

But blues kill more effectively than reds. Reds aren't as useful as blues and purples are against snake. Or even whites, probably.

oh definitely theres no doubt blues and purples work best im just saying reds are 2nd best at killing with up smash and you should watch out for them lol

 

[Berserker.]

D-air with red pikmin is the most powerful right? I'm still watching for that

 

[**Havok**]

I finally understand this MU, I'll post up something crazy detailed soon. It's completely doable and straight up even. Even in our favor if you know the details and they don't. It all stemmed from getting ***** by RichBrown and MiniTroika lol

And just to give you an idea of howl comfortable I feel in the MU, I would rather play as Snake than use my MK for this MU. lol

 

[OverLade]

Interesting stuff Havok. Will any videos be coming soon? Also look forward to the write up.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I hope whatever this is, it is not trolling. Seen too much. Also, Pringles :D

 

[**Havok**]

Yea there's a set that was just recorded VS anuar from SoCal, 1st game my MK got *****, then went salty runbacks with Snake, close but took it lol

 

[phi1ny3]

^I doubt this man be trollin'

 

[~ Gheb ~]

He's definitely not trolling. I told you before that it's either 0 or +1 in Snake's favor. Razer and Havok [the only Snakes in the US with good, consistent Olimar practice] tell you it's 0 or +1 in Snake's favor. Shu beats Nietono and he ***** Brood.

This match-up is not in Olimar's favor.

 

[Attila_]

video of shuu ****** brood?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That's from one of their most recent sets [Shu wins 2-0]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEZj4F9wrpM
That's quite an old match but still a good watch [Shu also wins the set 2-0]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL8vDFb0OJM&feature=related

IIRC Shu has 2-0'd Brood in their last two tourney sets with Snake and I know for a fact he has 2-0'd him before that at least once. Brood's most recent win against Shu's Snake is from late 2009 and had Shu going MK match 1 and Brood winning 2-1. It's Nietono who makes me think that it might be even ... but then again he makes a lot of Olimar's match-ups look even <_<

 

[Attila_]

2009 videos don't really count...

i'm not convinced. shu's mindgames seem to me to be the reason why he wins.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Saw that coming from a hundred miles away.

 

[Kuro~]

I've always thought this to be nowhere near as bad as snakes said...

I can't wait to see havoks legit post of awesome. And vids.