**Havok**
Smash Lord
Ok so lets break down some basic aspects of the MU:
Snake has problems in this MU because of the following reasons... Oli's:
-Pivot grab
-Upsmash
-Red Pikmin aerial
-Random thrown purple pikmin
-Forward smash used as a bait
What does Snake have in the MU?:
-Upsmash (ill explain)
-Nair
-Down Throw--> contrary to popular belief its not AS GOOD as it seems for the same reason its supposed to be “good” ill explain in a sec...
-Forward/Back throws...
-Ftilt...
-grenade placements
-the ALMIGHTY C4
-Jab
-Dash attack...
(I know this sounds like im listing all of snakes options but im not lol)
Ok let's knock off one myth that's been flying around (not only in this MU) in this MU:
1.You can camp. Yes sir, I just said you can camp. Except it's not pulling out several grenades at once while juggling with C4, it's actually 1 SH grenade and checking. It's like testing the waters with one grenade, why check? Because a lot of Olimars will come running towards you to grab you.
SOLUTION: Ftilt as soon as they run in. They seriously have no defense against this, in fact when you see a little Oli running toward you should thank the lord because it's an auto %21
One grenade helps because it keeps the pikmin throwing in check (unless there's a purple involved). If they aren't doing anything then more grenades. If they get too close to throw pikmin AKA short hop throw = Run in an dash attack.
2.Olimars landings are hella predictable and have no real solution to dash attack (as he's landing if im not being clear)... When there is horizontal space between you and an airborne Oli = dash attack in. NO MOTAR though, unless you're absolutely certain it's going to hit. Just dash attack.
3.When Oli is directly above you, Up Smash is AMAZING because it requires no physical commitment for Snake. Think about it, he has to whistle through multiple upsmashes and THEN get to you? Which BTW %90 of the time he's going to Nair/Fair anyway so put up that shield and angle it up then X punish. If Oli's above you but there is some horizontal space, you can Nair in place, HE CAN'T WHISTLE THROUGH IT. You can also do some combination of grenade drop → Upsmash, wait for them to blow up etc etc
4. People think that Down Throw messes up Oli, it does... to some degree but like I mentioned earlier, its bad for the same reasons its good. Oli has an extremely short roll, SO short in fact, that it recovers Faster than most chars. So bad roll is actually ok, maybe even pretty good. For example you can ftilt into his shield, he can roll behind you and punish your recovery. That's how fast it is. Plus Oli's getup attack is one of the ones that Snake hates (towards you then away). So let's say you hold shield to cover the getup attack option, simple getup and I guess roll forward, it doesn't cover rolling behind you (although im messing around with walking back a bit and shielding so he won't roll behind, need more testing), Oli can actually roll behind you then roll away/forward. It's hard to catch and now you're open
5. I'm starting to think that back throwing them towards edges is much more efficient for dmg, it's extremely hard for them to get back on with the barrage of upsmashes/floored grenades. Just be careful of the mutiple roll, remember its fast and enough to get towards the center of the stage.
6.Up close, NEVER EVER finish an ftilt (unless he's near the edge) just keep ftilting with the Knee, should he spot dodge = 2nd hit. If you feel like he's going to grab = 2nd hit. Knee pressure keeps his shield low so you can poke him if he feels like he wants to stay inside. Up close jab is actually pretty good, it always pops him up enough for a Knee/ grab if you're ballsy enough.
7.I can't stress enough that Olimars will ALWAYS aerial you as they're landing, and if they didn't one time, they will next time!
8.This is what opened up the MU for me, the ground game was solidified but I couldn't help the feeling of being cornered all the time... Olimar can't deal with a simple Up B towards the center of the stage, his upair doesn't knock you off. Keep doing this to avoid his pikmin and to C4 pressure.
9.C4 is amazing in this MU, I actually have no good habits using C4... I just don't get it, I use it too early, too late or Not all lol In this MU just keep blowing that puppy up over and over, because it gets rid of pikmin, keeps the Oli grounded and scared. I spoke to Shu for a bit about the MU (since he plays with Brood) and he told me only ONE thing. Keep the C4 at the center of the stage, why the center? Because it limits the distance he put on you, he can't get too close and throw pikmin = C4 in his face. So he stays away, if he stays away then you can CAMP! At full range Snake wins the camping game, so Oli has to move on the ground to get close where you Cypher away towards the center again. Rinse and repeat.
10.When you get upaired, SDI that **** and Bair that little POS.
11.You shouldn't be landing anywhere near him with C4 pressure + pivots so his upsmash kills will only hit on your mistakes up close. Which btw, if you manage to block one...Roll away, you can't punish it. At all. It's not even worth it.
12.In a nutshell, the game is awkward spacing game, don't over commit on your grenade pulls and you should be able to defend yourself when he decides to come in.
13.When you have a lead try to get as much out of it as possible, wait for errors. I keep trying to continue momentum only to get upsmashed at %90 and be even with Oli again.
14.If you have a Fsmash happy Oli, a backwards grenade roll helps to blow him up but not you.
15.Uptilt is always a dangerous tool but TBH it's DAMN hard to land this thing. Maybe you can do it when he runs in...
16.If you're ever behind, BE Patient. I know its hard with all the pikmin flying around but its possible.
17.To avoid the barrage of pikmin thrown at you, I jab (before they even touch me) and flash my shield to let them pass through me (spot dodge if I see a purple)
18.I used to think trying to see Oli's Lineup of pikmin was stupid because I have other things to worry about but it's actually REALLY useful because you can attempt riskier things if you know he has a yellow/white/and sometimes red.
A funny mix up you have in all of this → the Shu (grenade hold and roll behind them) Damn risky but helps sometimes.
I'm not amazing at the MU but I don't feel so lost anymore, I'm sure im missing plenty of stuff that I'll know sooner or later but after a while the MU is kinda fun. And the other day I beat Anuar (the second best oli in SoCal) and was beating Rich Brown consistently in friendlies WITH SNAKE lol I think even Neo told me that it wasn't even worth investing time in that MU. Sorry for the messy post but I have things to do etc etc
And btw I think this MU will always be close, you won't ever be 3 Stocking a good oli.
Snake has problems in this MU because of the following reasons... Oli's:
-Pivot grab
-Upsmash
-Red Pikmin aerial
-Random thrown purple pikmin
-Forward smash used as a bait
What does Snake have in the MU?:
-Upsmash (ill explain)
-Nair
-Down Throw--> contrary to popular belief its not AS GOOD as it seems for the same reason its supposed to be “good” ill explain in a sec...
-Forward/Back throws...
-Ftilt...
-grenade placements
-the ALMIGHTY C4
-Jab
-Dash attack...
(I know this sounds like im listing all of snakes options but im not lol)
Ok let's knock off one myth that's been flying around (not only in this MU) in this MU:
1.You can camp. Yes sir, I just said you can camp. Except it's not pulling out several grenades at once while juggling with C4, it's actually 1 SH grenade and checking. It's like testing the waters with one grenade, why check? Because a lot of Olimars will come running towards you to grab you.
SOLUTION: Ftilt as soon as they run in. They seriously have no defense against this, in fact when you see a little Oli running toward you should thank the lord because it's an auto %21
One grenade helps because it keeps the pikmin throwing in check (unless there's a purple involved). If they aren't doing anything then more grenades. If they get too close to throw pikmin AKA short hop throw = Run in an dash attack.
2.Olimars landings are hella predictable and have no real solution to dash attack (as he's landing if im not being clear)... When there is horizontal space between you and an airborne Oli = dash attack in. NO MOTAR though, unless you're absolutely certain it's going to hit. Just dash attack.
3.When Oli is directly above you, Up Smash is AMAZING because it requires no physical commitment for Snake. Think about it, he has to whistle through multiple upsmashes and THEN get to you? Which BTW %90 of the time he's going to Nair/Fair anyway so put up that shield and angle it up then X punish. If Oli's above you but there is some horizontal space, you can Nair in place, HE CAN'T WHISTLE THROUGH IT. You can also do some combination of grenade drop → Upsmash, wait for them to blow up etc etc
4. People think that Down Throw messes up Oli, it does... to some degree but like I mentioned earlier, its bad for the same reasons its good. Oli has an extremely short roll, SO short in fact, that it recovers Faster than most chars. So bad roll is actually ok, maybe even pretty good. For example you can ftilt into his shield, he can roll behind you and punish your recovery. That's how fast it is. Plus Oli's getup attack is one of the ones that Snake hates (towards you then away). So let's say you hold shield to cover the getup attack option, simple getup and I guess roll forward, it doesn't cover rolling behind you (although im messing around with walking back a bit and shielding so he won't roll behind, need more testing), Oli can actually roll behind you then roll away/forward. It's hard to catch and now you're open
5. I'm starting to think that back throwing them towards edges is much more efficient for dmg, it's extremely hard for them to get back on with the barrage of upsmashes/floored grenades. Just be careful of the mutiple roll, remember its fast and enough to get towards the center of the stage.
6.Up close, NEVER EVER finish an ftilt (unless he's near the edge) just keep ftilting with the Knee, should he spot dodge = 2nd hit. If you feel like he's going to grab = 2nd hit. Knee pressure keeps his shield low so you can poke him if he feels like he wants to stay inside. Up close jab is actually pretty good, it always pops him up enough for a Knee/ grab if you're ballsy enough.
7.I can't stress enough that Olimars will ALWAYS aerial you as they're landing, and if they didn't one time, they will next time!
8.This is what opened up the MU for me, the ground game was solidified but I couldn't help the feeling of being cornered all the time... Olimar can't deal with a simple Up B towards the center of the stage, his upair doesn't knock you off. Keep doing this to avoid his pikmin and to C4 pressure.
9.C4 is amazing in this MU, I actually have no good habits using C4... I just don't get it, I use it too early, too late or Not all lol In this MU just keep blowing that puppy up over and over, because it gets rid of pikmin, keeps the Oli grounded and scared. I spoke to Shu for a bit about the MU (since he plays with Brood) and he told me only ONE thing. Keep the C4 at the center of the stage, why the center? Because it limits the distance he put on you, he can't get too close and throw pikmin = C4 in his face. So he stays away, if he stays away then you can CAMP! At full range Snake wins the camping game, so Oli has to move on the ground to get close where you Cypher away towards the center again. Rinse and repeat.
10.When you get upaired, SDI that **** and Bair that little POS.
11.You shouldn't be landing anywhere near him with C4 pressure + pivots so his upsmash kills will only hit on your mistakes up close. Which btw, if you manage to block one...Roll away, you can't punish it. At all. It's not even worth it.
12.In a nutshell, the game is awkward spacing game, don't over commit on your grenade pulls and you should be able to defend yourself when he decides to come in.
13.When you have a lead try to get as much out of it as possible, wait for errors. I keep trying to continue momentum only to get upsmashed at %90 and be even with Oli again.
14.If you have a Fsmash happy Oli, a backwards grenade roll helps to blow him up but not you.
15.Uptilt is always a dangerous tool but TBH it's DAMN hard to land this thing. Maybe you can do it when he runs in...
16.If you're ever behind, BE Patient. I know its hard with all the pikmin flying around but its possible.
17.To avoid the barrage of pikmin thrown at you, I jab (before they even touch me) and flash my shield to let them pass through me (spot dodge if I see a purple)
18.I used to think trying to see Oli's Lineup of pikmin was stupid because I have other things to worry about but it's actually REALLY useful because you can attempt riskier things if you know he has a yellow/white/and sometimes red.
A funny mix up you have in all of this → the Shu (grenade hold and roll behind them) Damn risky but helps sometimes.
I'm not amazing at the MU but I don't feel so lost anymore, I'm sure im missing plenty of stuff that I'll know sooner or later but after a while the MU is kinda fun. And the other day I beat Anuar (the second best oli in SoCal) and was beating Rich Brown consistently in friendlies WITH SNAKE lol I think even Neo told me that it wasn't even worth investing time in that MU. Sorry for the messy post but I have things to do etc etc
And btw I think this MU will always be close, you won't ever be 3 Stocking a good oli.
i've only heard ridiculous sentiments like 60:40 oli, 70:30 oli...LOL.
yay~
