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reverse shuttle loop is a beast punisher for c4 recoveries. seriously.
It must have been the second hitbox, and even then I find this hard to believe. I can't picture MK living any utilt hit at 155% fresh.
ok if i cant be near him and cant toss nades at him near the egde then i should be in the center?
rofl
Nah no one will listen to me anyway.
The footstool can be avoided if you choose to c4 yourself early enough, if the c4 explosion kills you then your pretty ****ed, but if your back far enough and can live through the c4, you can easily survive through most potential gimps even at 100+%. Dont be confused, i definitely get foot stooled, it happens, but i've avoided many by c4ing much eariler then i would of normally, or pulling back much further then normal -> into c4.
I think it does matter if you want to claim that it's an even matchup. as I said, YES it is definitely preferable to avoid the kill, but MK is still piling on a lot of damage. and I also don't see how you get 60% off of a dthrow unless it's on a platform or the MK is way too predictable
I've always used my ground game against snake as MK personally and I've always felt it was an advantageous matchup(at least I don't dair camp much), I think if MK is patient it's just really hard for snake to do anything because MK can stay outside of snake's range and anything snake does lags and is punishable. although I've also never felt like it was a large disadvantage as snake vs MK so I've just thought it was close but MK's favor
SEE this is the **** im talking about. This is why i dont even bother on matchup threads. Essentially i just gave you another option, instead of saying "oh yeah man, i'll try that next time" you just say "no no no man this is how it is". ????? WTF??? And im confused, what MKs do you play, why cant you land a dthrow on a platform. I've landed grabs on seibrik on platforms, often enough to the point where i consider it a huge part of the matchup if landed. No idea why it would be this IMPOSSIBLE thing. MK's can be pressured as well rofl.
Snake can bait MK just as much as MK can bait snake on the ground. Infact Snake can take it a step further. Cooked grenades force MK to play defensive on the ground MK should never be able to just walk up to you. If MK is playing the spacing game (which seibrik does ooo soo well) you have quite a few options. If you ever feel unsure about anything grenade can solve the problem. You also have to have the mindset that mk isnt this unstoppable juggernaut that people think he is. MK's get scared, and play defensive, and make mistakes just like everyone else. No one is immune to this. You can condition MK to think one thing, and then land other attacks just like anyone else.
Then just for you...
Not trying to be a **** at all but the situation you describe makes no sense, MK must pick an option, he cant POSSIBLY hit you if you try to grab WHILE shielding an ftilt. Its a simple option, a mixup, while not a traditional mixup (for the SF players out there), its still a mixup. Should he be standing out of your ftilt range, waiting for you to make a move, why is slowly walking forward an ftilting him not an option? By slowing walking into ftilt range, you force MK to make a decision, all of which you have answers to. No not just answers, COUNTERS to. Should he choose the option of attacking you, you have the option to shield, should he choose to shield, you have the option to run up and grab. Should the MK start attacking when he sees you running you, you have the option to shield. So on and so forth. If you look at the other option, which is he hits you (or run away? which means nothing was lost or gained, which isnt bad) then YOU have the option of guessing this and shielding and counterattacking. Im pretty sure there isnt a move MK can do right in front of me that i cant punish if i shield..that isnt grab (while Up B is invincible, after shield if you walk forward abit and shield again you can grab the glide attack, if he goes over you, its a free bair/uair). But if you play scared of MK, you are almost GUARENTEED to not only choose the same option over and over (which if the MK is smart..or even just NOT stupid, they'll choose their option that beats it). Alot of times you can even pick the wrong option once, and STILL either back out without being counterattacked OR still manage to land a hit. Perfect example is first hit of ftilt, its completely reasonable to pmuch always expect the second hit of tilt. Its common to, on HIT of ftilt, to run up and grab as a "mixup" to more damage. Its just as viable on shield. And if they get conditioned to that and try to counter that (with ...lets say dsmash), that can be predicted and they can be punished. This is why i said the game goes alot smarter then people think, even if people dont realize they are doing it (but they definitely are). The options are there but people either choose to ignore them....well yeah people just choose to ignore them pmuch. It begins with you thinking MK vs Snake is AH THERE IS NO WAY I CAN WIN IF HE PLAYS 100% PERFECT AHHH.
Im not gonna sit here and act like the matchup isnt hard. Because it is. MK has alot of advantages, but snake has quite a few himself. Dthrow is absolutely terrible for MK, not only is it probably our BEST kill setup, but you can easily wrack up 30% or more. Almost all of mks roll options can be reacted to. His best one is get up attack because it starts behind him. All other options can be punished on reaction with HARDLY ANY practice at all. If there is a edge in front of metaknight, another dthrow is very probable. When you think about it, you may think you need 4 or 5 dthrows to do decent damage but in reality you only need to do 2 or 3 and END the chain with an ftilt. This is a hefty 50% with 2 dthrows and a ftilt (okay man it might be like 40% w/e) If you take it any further then 2, it gets ********, but its important to end with a powerful hit like ftilt. AND if mk is at kill percent, you have the possibility to land a kill. That means you could potentially START the first dthrow at 80%, land 2 more dthrows, then kill MK with a uptilt. Obviously this isnt easy, its directly mind vs mind, and im not saying that you are GUARENTEED damage in anyway shape or form. But its a huge advantage for snake. Oh and if you land a dthrow on a platform (like bfield or smashville), its ******** how much damage mk should take.
Honestly when i play snake, i feel like its about taking opportunity, maybe thats every char (i only play Snake), but it feels that with Snake, its worth living to 170%, through all the MK bull****, then killing the MK in a chain of quick/powerful attacks, whether it be through dthrow or good predictations. In my mind, the fact that MK can gimp/juggle me in the air is what even gives MK a chance. Its also possible im being overly optimistic about the matchup.
The problem is, im 100% sure someone will post with the general summary of their post being "no no no that doesnt work". At that point im like okay man you win, im wrong.I guess its hard to think farther then the situation in front of you, and to go in depth into how to solve it. I guess I've been looking at it like its a math problem that I dont bother solving after sight of it. But as to how you said you weren't gonna contribute, its something like this that can help put fire into a dim and unintelligent convo that get people moving forward and talking about the RIGHT things so that it all works out well. Dont hesitate to throw things out to get things moving instead of throwing out that elitist and laughing at those who are wrong
Enlighten me, why was that bad advice? You know that MK can dash grab you during nade tossing animation, which puts you on the ledge if you're near it, for an attempted gimp.rofl
lay a grenade at your feet, toss the next one.
it's hard for me to say "I'll try that next time" because I don't main snake? my perspective on this matchup is primarily as META KNIGHT, I don't see taking 60% from a grab or getting grabbed on a platform because unless my memory is completely ****ed it pretty much never happens to me. perhaps I just haven't played snake's that try that enough and it's an experience thing but that's just what I have observed and in my head it doesn't make much sense for MK to be parallel to snake in front of him on a platform
obviously, I said I think it's a close matchup and I lose to snake's all the time(like 0-4 vs fatal in the past month lol). I'm not one of the ******* that thinks that MK is always invincible in all situations I only think that he has a SLIGHT advantage
This makes no sense, if you pulled a grenade and think mk is gonna dash ANYTHING you. You can grenade grab. If you've dropped the grenade, you can pivot grab, or ftilt. If you have the grenade down and he isnt going for a grab, you are free to lob your next one. If hes standing close enough to react to a grenade throw, hes in range for a grenade grab or ftilt. And pulling a grenade and dropping it is what you do to make yourself safe incase he does go for a grab in the first place, making the 2nd grenade you lob a much safer option because your first grenade is protecting you.
I dont understand why you are here saying NO NO NO that doesnt work if your not looking at it through snakes perspective. If you've never takin 60% from a grab, you've either never fought good snakes, OR they arent good at the dthrow mixup, because its ********. Anyone whos ever fought a snake from FL will tell you, thats how we roll niiiiiggggaaaaa. As for the platform thing, you can scare MK into airdodging just like anyone else, and in some cases they'll airdodge onto a platform right into a grab. Or if im on a platform and they go for a Up B, i can grab that as well. If they go for a tornado while im recovering, and I airdodge through it, i can land on a platform (battlefield is a great example cuz there isnt anywhere you can land where you cant be grabbed from a platform at some point) and grab them on the way down. Its unlikely, but extremely rewarding if it is landed, game changing i'd say if the snake is good at dthrow mixup.
I think Snake does pretty good on alot of CPs, people just think that he doesnt. Or Snakes dont know how to play on them and havent bothered to.
I dont think brinstar is that bad for Snake. I think its about stage control, oh and if snake lands a grab roflllllll gl hf mk
agreed. delphino isnt half bad at all... brinstar is ok too i think. i mean, not good, but not as bad as FRIGATE!
It still doesn't cover all options. An MK can dash at you then jump a Fair/Dair during your grenade grab attempt if you go for that, which if you're near the edge at low %, can put you in semi-bad situation. In general, I just don't think it's a smart idea to hang near the edge at low %'s against MK, because even if you have options to deal with the majority of MK's options, it's still easy to mess up one read, or get read, then punished.
Fast Fall Dair out of shield? For what reason and why? I can't figure out why you would Dair, of all moves. If you just short hop it OOS, it can punish, but it's risky against people who know how to DI out of it or that can shield it, etc. Just ftilt instead IMO, or grab. I usually use Dair on sidestep spammers or predicting rolls.
Nothing covers all options, absolutely nothing you can do in that situation covers all options, might as well give up, how will you win if you cant pick the "cover all options" option. Obviously being near the edge at low percent is bad, but the grenade option isnt bad, its just an option like many of the other options you have. If any of your options get read, the punishment is the same. Essentially what im saying is, you make absolutely no sense, and everyone should do nothing because you wont cover all options, which is stupid.
Better not to put yourself in the edge situation? Because realisticly, that is impossible, because im willing to bet that anywhere between 50 - 100% of the bad situations you get put in happen because the opponent got you there, not because you felt it was time for a bad situation.
wrong. that's ur opinion and ur personal experience.
Ah fellow apprentice of chops
Gonna have to disagree on you with some things my brother. I say its 55-45. FD I find a little more easier. True you can avoid some early gimps with an early c4, but it can go either way. You may put yourself in a worse position if the metaknight (dasbess) is ready. Snake does NOT have options for everything. MK has some safe set ups. MK can poke us and just run along with nado. The ones that camp and potentially try to time you out are the worst ones. Once they get the lead, it is just a game of catch. I've gotten better at the match up and feel comfortable with most metaknights but there are some that just know the safer set ups and that can run from snake which is dangerous. The moment you jump up and try to catch them, you're in danger. Just some random thoughts I'm posting atm. May post more later.
