Snake: MU Discussion Supplement

[SuSa]

Holy hell. I just played G-reg on the AiB ladder, and even though you said "cheap/gay are scrub talk," I can only describe his Snake as "gay"

I took him to Yoshi's Island the first match, and he just jumped around on the platform laying and detonating C4s and grenades. THE WHOLE TIME. There was like, nothing I could do about it, at least, not on wifi. I managed to get an Inhale->footstool for a kill, but I still couldn't beat him.

Then I took him to Pictochat and he did the same thing on the transformation that has all those random lines. So I waited it out, and yeah. I somehow won that one. It helped that he randomly fell into the piranha and killed himself.

Then he took me to Smashville, and Snake is broken. His hitboxes are absolutely ********, and he has so many options. This matchup is 60:40 his favor at LEAST ... on wifi. No, I was not really outplayed, I did the best I could considering input delay and Snake's broken hitboxes/camping ability on wifi. Seriously, his jab hit me even though he was punching in the opposite direction @_@

Then I hit him near the right of Smashville with a fresh Fsmash, towards the right of the screen, at like 104-110% and he DIed it and lived. What the hell.

SO BROKEN AHHH

I'm actually working on a style of air-camping with Snake.

G-Reg is really good at air camping with his Snake.

PS:

Beware - I'll be on the ladder tomorrow. I plan to be 15-0 on my first day like I was last ladder.

 

[papermario12]

Someone's a bit grumpy

 

[papermario12]

No offense, but it's obvious that you're new. Very few things, or I suppose nothing, in this game can truly be considered "cheap."

You just...play to win.

I know youre supposed to play to win, but people should at least fight with honor.

 

[A1lion835]

I know youre supposed to play to win, but people should at least fight with honor.

Honor, sadly, doesn't really exist in this game. In fighting games, or any game in particular (except perhaps Mario Paint), you shouldn't put limits on yourself like fighting with "honor". People infinite. It's not about honor, it's about winning : /

 

[papermario12]

But my school tourney banned suicide moves, camping and edgehogging. Would the host be considered a (insert insulting word i cant think of here)?

 

[Falconv1.0]

But my school tourney banned suicide moves, camping and edgehogging. Would the host be considered a (insert insulting word i cant think of here)?

He's a scrub, yeah. Planking I get, but banning edge hogging and suicide move bans are ****ing pathetic. It is your fault for being hit by a suicide move or getting too far off edge.

 

[A1lion835]

But my school tourney banned suicide moves, camping and edgehogging. Would the host be considered a (insert insulting word i cant think of here)?

Yea, he's bad : /. Edgehogging is one of the simplest techs ever; why ban it? How about hitting your opponent while they're offstage? Camping...camping is hard to define, so you can't exactly ban it fairly. Why is it his fault if he thinks the best option is to keep on plucking 'nades?

etc.

 

[papermario12]

Okay, maybe he isn't as good as I thought. But I still cant believe i got DQ'd for using Kirbycide.

 

[Lord Viper]

55:45 and 60:40 in theory.

Not enough Kirby's go up against Snake's in tournament settings - so it's really hard to put the hammer on the nail.

So going off of just theory and each characters options at any time - I'm pretty certain it's not Kirby's favor - but it's not horribly in Snake's favor.


To clear up what I said when I said 60:40 Snake with possible 55:45

☆ True, only Kirby mains that go VS Snake is the one's that use Kirby for the whole tourney. I know anyone who say it's in Kirby's favor hasn't really faced a good Snake main, (many Snake mains I win with Kirby, but they're not very good in my eyes). Looking at the current meta game, it's looking like 40/60 Snake, but picking the right stage when facing Snake, and forcing him in the air will make Kirby's day better, (still hate Brawling Snake). ☆

 

[thrillagorilla]

@papermario12: I'm just going to guess that you are new to the boards. I don't mind you posting in this thread if you have something to add to the discussion, but I don't want random Johns and "x" should be banned posts here. There is a social thread for that. Just be sure to introduce yourself first. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me and I'll help out as best I can.

That said, please don't derail the topic. I'll consider it trolling and report you for it.

 

[papermario12]

What's trolling?

 

[A1lion835]

What's trolling?

Trolling would be like this:

lulz iunno wut u guyz iz taking bout but but kirbeh totaly raps snake, u guyz iz just moronz for lozing no johns lulz all u needz to do is ftrow uair commbo him and u getz eazy 50% wow <-------I'm sorry you guys have to try to read this, my eyes are burning

(Basically making stupid posts, like that one, saying they're just stupid and contradict stuff people say. If I'd maybe had some facts in there, no one would get mad, or if I hadn't just said a random not-true fact. Talking like someone who lives on the internet doesn't help though.)

 

[Asdioh]

I'm actually working on a style of air-camping with Snake.

G-Reg is really good at air camping with his Snake.

PS:

Beware - I'll be on the ladder tomorrow. I plan to be 15-0 on my first day like I was last ladder.

I could probably do that if I played a different character

I'm sorry, but I've NEVER seen a Kirby main in the top 32 of the AiB ladder. He's just not good enough on wifi to have an amazing record.

I went from 6-0 to 8-3...I lost to some random Fox I should have easily beaten, since I know the matchup and I play Fox myself, but wifi was like "nah, how about you get hit by every move he throws out"

Then I lost to G-reg >_>

Then I lost to Phoenix Dark, I'm like 0-6 against his Sonic over the course of the ladders. Good Sonics on wifi are ridiculous...despite the fact that I've vastly improved since I last played him, I can't do anything. All Sonic has to do is wait for you to make a move and punish. Sonic controls the pace of the fight on wifi since you have no time to react to his speed. It's like...trying to powershield random Falco lasers on wifi. Not gonna happen.

 

[Lord Viper]

I'm sorry, but I've NEVER seen a Kirby main in the top 32 of the AiB ladder. He's just not good enough on wifi to have an amazing record.

☆ If I didn't have no weak internet connection for the pass two years, I'll most definitely put Kirby in the top 32. So far I'm only in the ladder match for doubles because it's more fun. What does this have to do with Snake, I really don't know, but I'll get off this topic right now. ☆

 

[Asdioh]

I'm saying that Snake absolutely ***** on wifi.

Kirby is just average. He doesn't have anything to abuse on wifi.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ He can abuse his Up-B, Down-B, U-Tilt, U-Air, and his U-Grab. =3 ☆

 

[RoflWafflez]

I could probably do that if I played a different character

I'm sorry, but I've NEVER seen a Kirby main in the top 32 of the AiB ladder. He's just not good enough on wifi to have an amazing record.

I went from 6-0 to 8-3...I lost to some random Fox I should have easily beaten, since I know the matchup and I play Fox myself, but wifi was like "nah, how about you get hit by every move he throws out"

Then I lost to G-reg >_>

Then I lost to Phoenix Dark, I'm like 0-6 against his Sonic over the course of the ladders. Good Sonics on wifi are ridiculous...despite the fact that I've vastly improved since I last played him, I can't do anything. All Sonic has to do is wait for you to make a move and punish. Sonic controls the pace of the fight on wifi since you have no time to react to his speed. It's like...trying to powershield random Falco lasers on wifi. Not gonna happen.

That's exactly my dilemma Asdioh, i went 8-0 with Kirby, and then i lost 3 in a row to go 8-3...so i started using my 2ndaries, and lost more battles...shoulda stayed Kirbz...

But yea, Kirby is really limited on Wi-Fi, its a big obstacle to overcome since he's not like Lucario/MK/Snake that can spam things and win any fight they want to w/ lag.

But i plan on going all Kirby for the rest of the ladder, and i plan on making it to the Top 32...hopefully Wifi isn't too gay to me >_<

I find usually that sucking up people w/ projectiles (even grenades, they rock online) really help w/ the camping process, and it has won me alot of mindgaming sets. Lol just a little plus.

 

[T-nuts]

I'm saying that Snake absolutely ***** on wifi.

Kirby is just average. He doesn't have anything to abuse on wifi.

kirby is horrible on wifi.

These characters are lower than kirby on the tier list, but better than kirby on wifi:

1. donkey kong
2. toon link
3. pit
4. wolf
5. zero suit samus
6. fox
7. ike
8. yoshi
9. sonic
10. luigi
11. ness
12. ice climbers (Debatable, but i believe this to be true, even with how hard wifi makes chain grabbing)

These characters are higher than kirby on the tier list, but kirby is better than them on wifi:

1. nobody

this puts kirby at about 25th best on wifi. compared to his actual tier position of 13th, kirby is worse by about 12 spots on the tier list, which is probably the biggest drop in the transition from offline to online of ANY character. the only character that would maybe give him a run for his money in dropped wifi position is ICs, imo.

In conclusion, .

 

[RoflWafflez]

Not to conclude anything, but look at all the people who have succeeded at Ladder online...Ally (Snake), Dabuz (Olimar), Samboner (Fox), and 9001 people using MK...all chars that become instant gods once lag is introduced. Draw ur own conlcusions there...

Just another thing Kirby has to overcome. =/

 

[SheerMadness]

I was pritty close to top 32 when I played online. I got to like 1890 which had to of been pritty close and blackanese got over 1900 with all kirby so he probably was in top 32. Kirby prolly falls from lower high tier to middle mid tier online.

But as for Snake suck him up and walk off the ledge as much as possible. Works good both online and offline.

 

[thrillagorilla]

Lol at wifi talk.

Alright people. I can make a general Wifi thread if you'd like, but until then try and keep the majority of your posts to Snake discussion here. Online, Offline, doesn't matter as long as its Snake.

...Snake?!?

SSSSSSNNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKEEE!

 

[RoflWafflez]

Ah no need to make a Wifi thread, it IS Wi-Fail after all...

The tourney I might be going to tomorrow will have a large abundance of Snakes, including Afro Thunder (im his ride) and Lambchops...hopefully it'll turn out ok

>_<

 

[Lord Viper]

Alright people. I can make a general Wifi thread if you'd like, but until then try and keep the majority of your posts to Snake discussion here. Online, Offline, doesn't matter as long as its Snake.

...Snake?!?

SSSSSSNNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKEEE!

☆ Sorry boss, we just have to make more Snake mains post in this thread, so far we had two to post in this thread and it's te same outcome of our speculations. D= ☆

Ah no need to make a Wifi thread, it IS Wi-Fail after all...

But we already have a Wifi Thread that's going to die for the third time. D=

 

[thrillagorilla]

☆ Sorry boss, we just have to make more Snake mains post in this thread, so far we had two to post in this thread and it's te same outcome of our speculations. D= ☆

Would it be considered in poor taste to make another request? I'll do it as long as I can get away with it.

But we already have a Wifi Thread that's going to die for the third time. D=

I meant a wi-fi John strategy thread. Most MUs change online, so why not talk about the differences from character to character? That's all I was thinking of.

@SuSa: Air Camping? I don't like the sound of that at all... What is it?

 

[RoflWafflez]

Air camping is what Kirbys do sometimes, it's like staying in the air for as long as possible spamming aerials as an approach, or the lack of an approach...like constantly floating in the air and repeating b-airs to fend off an incoming MK or something. Used well with multiple jump-chars.

I'm not sure if SuSa was talking about Snake for air camping, but a Snake air camping sounds a bit odd to me...

 

[thrillagorilla]

I'm not sure if SuSa was talking about Snake for air camping, but a Snake air camping sounds a bit odd to me...

That's why I asked. Air camping is my favorite way to play if I can get away with it. I loves my platforms... I just have no idea how a Snake would do it though.

 

[DFat2]

I really don't know for how long this threads been up and whats up to date. But, what I do know is that even suggesting Kirby vs Snake is in our favor is ridiculous. You (as well as over half of the cast) can combo his easily. Now, it takes you way more than it takes him to get the KO. What good is it having him at 130 if you can't KO him. He could KO you at 100% easily near the edge.

It's obvious that you (Kewkky and Falcon 1.0) haven't been outplayed by a Snake or have taken the win from you after you so easily had it. Once they figure out a way it, it's not even funny.

 

[SuSa]

I was talking about Snake for air camping.

C4, Grenades, Nikita, FF Bair, SH Uair (auto-canceled), Full hopped bairs (auto-cancels) double-hopped nairs (auto-cancels) and full hop/sh dairs (if they can hit). Stay in the air as long as possible.

Albeit Snake can be out-air camped but it IS hard... mostly because Snake air-camping makes people go "wtf silly opponent, Snakes' can't fly"


It's how I have to beat Lolimar. I camp the air, rather then the ledge/spot near ledge.

 

[Dabuz]

Not to conclude anything, but look at all the people who have succeeded at Ladder online...Ally (Snake), Dabuz (Olimar), Samboner (Fox), and 9001 people using MK...all chars that become instant gods once lag is introduced. Draw ur own conlcusions there...

Just another thing Kirby has to overcome. =/

ok, no, the fact that you say fox becomes god in lag is so fail, play as fox and tell me he is good in lag, he is one of the worst wifi characters IMO, and snake/ oli aren't really helped by wifi, and bad lag just make them both fail, there are only a few characters that are truly helped by lag or wifi in general, those are mk, lucario, wolf, g&w, rob, pit, falco, and a few more i can't think of, oli can't space or pivot grab right at all which ruins a lot of his game, and snake just loses all aspects of timing


and snake vs. kirby is impossible, for the entire time i mained kirby i never found a reasonable way to deal with snake, not worth it

 

[Nic64]

olimar and snake are pretty beastly WITHOUT lag anyway, they don't just suddenly get good lol. as is MK(although really aside from tornado/shuttle loop being better I think it hurts MK if you attempt to play him normally...then again same thing with most of those characters, wolf doesn't get godly in wifi by playing the same way a non-laggy wolf would lol, guess I'm doin it wrong).

also I've seen falco's actually complain that wifi makes it harder for them, dunno what the truth of that is as I don't play falco that much but when I have I think IAP is amazing when you bring lag into the equation. wolf, pit, and lucario are almost completley inarguably boosted by it in any case.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Hey, can we please get back on the real ****ing discussion?

And lol@DFat, I've been absolutely destroyed by Snakes, dont pretend to know me.

 

[Suspect]

Jack Frost vs snake is 70-30

Frosts' favor

 

[momochuu]

and snake vs. kirby is impossible, for the entire time i mained kirby i never found a reasonable way to deal with snake, not worth it

No such thing as an impossible matchup. Unless it's Dedede vs Ganon or something.

Really, the difficulty of this matchup depends on how campy the Snake likes to play. This thread is going to keep going back and forth. -_-

 

[Asdioh]

*continues talking about wifi stuff in the Kirby social topic*



Oh yeah, Snake's lame.

 

[Falconv1.0]

There are some matches that aren't too old where Chu Dat vs Ally went pretty even, I think Chillen as well.

So, anyone suggesting that it's impossible should really shut the hell up.

 

[A1lion835]

There are some matches that aren't too old where Chu Dat vs Ally went pretty even, I think Chillen as well.

So, anyone suggesting that it's impossible should really shut the hell up.

Individual players do not indicate matchup difficulty. Example:

I just 3-stocked a lvl 9 Meta Knight as Pokemon Trainer! The MU is 100-0 PT's favor, there's nothing he can do to stop you from ****** him.

(note: I would have used captain falcon, but the matchup is 100-0 in his favor).

 

[Falconv1.0]

Individual players do not indicate matchup difficulty. Example:

I just 3-stocked a lvl 9 Meta Knight as Pokemon Trainer! The MU is 100-0 PT's favor, there's nothing he can do to stop you from ****** him.

(note: I would have used captain falcon, but the matchup is 100-0 in his favor).

No, that comparison is horrid.

I seriously doubt Chu Dat is significantly better than Ally, yet he did not get *****, if one player is better and is using a character with a huge advantage you think he'd win by a really ****ing huge lead.

If you are going to make an example make a less ****ing terrible one please.

 

[DFat2]

No, that comparison is horrid.

I seriously doubt Chu Dat is significantly better than Ally, yet he did not get *****, if one player is better and is using a character with a huge advantage you think he'd win by a really ****ing huge lead.

If you are going to make an example make a less ****ing terrible one please.

Chu Dat is widely known as a really smart player. I choose to believe that if he picked MK, he could win it. But, that's my opinion that doesn't really affect the subject. What does affect it is the fact that you could only name one example.

Most people go off by Chu Dat, but it's stupid to rate a match up depending on the people playing alone. If you could please re-state whatever you said put's the match even, I would gladly appreciate it so I can keep discussing. I don't want to repeat something that has already been said, so I'd like to know what has been already said.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Chu Dat is widely known as a really smart player. I choose to believe that if he picked MK, he could win it. But, that's my opinion that doesn't really affect the subject. What does affect it is the fact that you could only name one example.

Most people go off by Chu Dat, but it's stupid to rate a match up depending on the people playing alone. If you could please re-state whatever you said put's the match even, I would gladly appreciate it so I can keep discussing. I don't want to repeat something that has already been said, so I'd like to know what has been already said.

I'm pretty much done arguing what makes it at the least even, I've done so already a bunch of times in other threads.

I will say though, if it was 65/35 I think we'd be really, really, REALLY ****ed in terms of tournament placings.

I have no problem believing 6/5 or 55/45, but anything harder than that is ludicrous to me.

 

[Suspect]

care to explain how 65/35 would make us ****ed in tourny placings?

especially when you dont see kirby winning that much as it is now anyways

also by your logic that means any character that has a 65/35 matchup are ****ed