Oh I thought we were actually gonna have a constructive discussion my bad.
COOL STORY BRO!!!!1
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
SMASHPOCALYPSE:: SPOC IX in February? Link to SPOC VIII results in OP
- Thread starter Scar
- Start date
Eggm
Smash Hero
Marth sheik and fox have always been the best 3 way tie, and always will be.
Wait, what's the constructive discussion to be had?
The viewpoint that Marth is top 2 is outdated and just sounds silly when you look at the current metagame. Versus the top tiers Marth is a character based entirely on punishing your opponent very very hard for their mistakes. Good players don't make very many mistakes anymore, and as such, Marth is faltering. He's also just worse at the punishment game than Jigglypuff is and has a worse recovery, as I see it, the recent successes of Mango and Hungrybox are a testiment to the fact that Jigglypuff is just a better take on Marth in the modern metagame.
As far as I can tell, the only way to argue that Marth is top 2 anymore is to look at the tier list as something that is cumulative and cares about results from 2003-2007, which frankly seems like a huge disservice to people who want to know where the game is currently.
There's no debate to be had.
And yes, Mow has always admitted to having Marth problems and is a hugely impulsive person so the story that that's why he would hold his "Marth is still teh best opinion" is a cool one because he has been a non-existent member of the tournament community for a long time now.
The viewpoint that Marth is top 2 is outdated and just sounds silly when you look at the current metagame. Versus the top tiers Marth is a character based entirely on punishing your opponent very very hard for their mistakes. Good players don't make very many mistakes anymore, and as such, Marth is faltering. He's also just worse at the punishment game than Jigglypuff is and has a worse recovery, as I see it, the recent successes of Mango and Hungrybox are a testiment to the fact that Jigglypuff is just a better take on Marth in the modern metagame.
As far as I can tell, the only way to argue that Marth is top 2 anymore is to look at the tier list as something that is cumulative and cares about results from 2003-2007, which frankly seems like a huge disservice to people who want to know where the game is currently.
There's no debate to be had.
And yes, Mow has always admitted to having Marth problems and is a hugely impulsive person so the story that that's why he would hold his "Marth is still teh best opinion" is a cool one because he has been a non-existent member of the tournament community for a long time now.
White_Mike
Smash Lord
I think that jiggz and falco are better than marth lol
Heart Break Kid
Smash Lord
Lol Marth sucks
ChRed2AKrisp
Smash Master
I think if tiers truly are what people CLAIM they are, as in a representation of the characters in their current metagame, marth is not first. Not enough people play him, no one wins major tourneys with him. The only marth you ever see at the top or near it is m2k and he usually plays sheik or fox or someone else. I mean name as many of the top players, that consitently place top 5 in mid to large tourneys, and see how many are marth players.
We see more falco in the top than marth atm.
If you're arguing which character is BETTER, that's really based on the user, and I don't think you can really quantify that once you get to top 8. I think all the top tier/high tier are interchangeable, with high tier maybe being a bit more limited than top tier. IE falcon is clearly not the most likely character to win, but a falcon doesn't have to much ground to make up. His main problem is that pretty much every character in the top can **** him, but he has a lot of stuff to respond with so it's up in the air.
We see more falco in the top than marth atm.
If you're arguing which character is BETTER, that's really based on the user, and I don't think you can really quantify that once you get to top 8. I think all the top tier/high tier are interchangeable, with high tier maybe being a bit more limited than top tier. IE falcon is clearly not the most likely character to win, but a falcon doesn't have to much ground to make up. His main problem is that pretty much every character in the top can **** him, but he has a lot of stuff to respond with so it's up in the air.
I just wrote out a long post, and realized that it would be stupid to post it.
The reason we have the MBR is so silly discussions like the one happening can be discussed by people with decent debate skills and intelligence in the current meta game. We really aren't doing any good discussing this in the SPOC thread.
The reason we have the MBR is so silly discussions like the one happening can be discussed by people with decent debate skills and intelligence in the current meta game. We really aren't doing any good discussing this in the SPOC thread.
ChRed2AKrisp
Smash Master
I don't trust the backroom lol
White_Mike
Smash Lord
Yeah just because the backroom can have their discussions in secret doesn't mean us non backroomers can't talk about it too.
Even though it shouldn't be going on in the SPOC thread >.>;
pockyD
Smash Legend
too bad many of the members of the mbr got in by merit of barlw or even pokemon and barely even play melee
this, even if I were in the backroom, half the people I would want to be having this discussion with have been overlooked for MBR, so w/e, I don't see a problem with the discussion happening outside of MBR. Someone probably should create it's own thread for it though.
pockyD
Smash Legend
i don't even know what 'this discussion' is anymore
i thought we were just bashing the MBR
i thought we were just bashing the MBR
oh, I thought it was bashing the MBR veiled by a tier list discussion
ChRed2AKrisp
Smash Master
It started legitimately as a tier discussion. Someone should just make a thread. But really, most tier discussion is pointless. The only impact tiers have on anything is whether a character is eligable for a low tier tourney XD.
Tiers are really impossible to quantify because people have such drastically differing opinions. M2k thinks Falco is the best character followed by I think fox and shiek. Or at least that's what I remember him telling me at the last chudat biweekly.
Tiers are really impossible to quantify because people have such drastically differing opinions. M2k thinks Falco is the best character followed by I think fox and shiek. Or at least that's what I remember him telling me at the last chudat biweekly.
M2K has a hard time seeing anything from a different perspective then his own. If his sheik lost to a falco, to Jason, falco is hands down a better character.
DJ Nintendo
Smash Champion
I guess I should just win Pound 4 with Bowser so he can be put all the way to the top of tier list lol.
JFox
Smash Hero
or just beat m2k with bowser so m2k can put him to the top of his own list, then all the mindless noobs go "OH MAN M2K THINKS BOWSER IS GOOD, WE SHOULD MOVE HIM UP THE TIER LIST!"
DJ Nintendo
Smash Champion
I beat his Fox and Sheik, does that count lol?
pockyD
Smash Legend
if you win pound 4 i will hand you $500 cash
D
Deleted member
Guest
hmm okay I guess I'll address a few points.
- no one was added to the MBR for any reason outside of talent of debating or a very intimate understanding of the game along with a detachment from the game to understand when conviction to your ideas should or should not be applied.
- I really don't see what my position on Marth has anything to do with this.
- I'm not adding anyone so assertive to state a blind guess as fact. This goes out almost exclusively to pockyD and Mogwai. You are wrong.
@ scar: same thing, don't say my bias is the foundation of the tier list, you're asserting a blind guess as fact, and you are wrong. You can go through the old threads and see that I still only get one vote.
- stop talking about MBR stuff. I also moderate atl north and you guys are way off topic. If you want to do MBR bashing, cool, but do it in melee discussion where everyone can read it and it's moderated by a completely unbiased 3rd party moderator.
- no one was added to the MBR for any reason outside of talent of debating or a very intimate understanding of the game along with a detachment from the game to understand when conviction to your ideas should or should not be applied.
- I really don't see what my position on Marth has anything to do with this.
- I'm not adding anyone so assertive to state a blind guess as fact. This goes out almost exclusively to pockyD and Mogwai. You are wrong.
@ scar: same thing, don't say my bias is the foundation of the tier list, you're asserting a blind guess as fact, and you are wrong. You can go through the old threads and see that I still only get one vote.
- stop talking about MBR stuff. I also moderate atl north and you guys are way off topic. If you want to do MBR bashing, cool, but do it in melee discussion where everyone can read it and it's moderated by a completely unbiased 3rd party moderator.
pockyD
Smash Legend
not sure what this means... just because something isn't prefaced by "i think" or "it is my humble opinion that" doesn't mean that something is a 'fact' - and if you disagree with something, you should do your part to disprove it instead of just smirking at it and giving an ambiguous 'you don't know anything' without helping provide information that would help people be more in the know
but anyway i've been shown/told things about/by certain members that clearly lead me to believe that they got in with little/no melee-relevant qualifications
i don't care about getting in if the point of it is to be exclusive; i recognize that i have a lot of flaws and am far from an ideal candidate myself... it's just that there are people clearly and by their own admission even less qualified than myself being in there that should be purged to preserve its integrity
the whole secrecy thing is another dumb issue that i haven't even bothered to touch on here and probably won't since that whole argument is pretty self-explanatory
edit: and there was a melee discussion thread about the mbr. it was closed. by your request.
DJ Nintendo
Smash Champion
Time for me to buy a bigger wallet because I'm definitely gonna win lol.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I did add some people as a check for debating to call bull**** on others, and yes even without regards to melee. IMO having a few extra people to keep the arguments of other more legitimate is pretty worthwhile. I added swordgard and pink reaper almost exclusively for that purpose.
And I agree, the secrecy is a poor policy, but it's actually better than the alternatives. It's been explored quite a bit.
Anyway, I've dragged on and I probably shouldn't have. Any one who wants to catch me on aim about literally anything is welcome to do so. Otherwise, I'll ask that everyone returns to SPOC discussion.
pockyD
Smash Legend
you're telling me that you couldn't find two people who both play melee and will call other people on bull****?
frankly it sounds like a problem with the other members if they need non-smashers to keep them in line
frankly it sounds like a problem with the other members if they need non-smashers to keep them in line
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
MBR is a waste IMO. Why withhold knowledge from a community? Also I can't recall one thing MBR brought that changed the meta game. All those locked rooms are good just to get people to buy premium accounts and quench their curiosity.
JFox
Smash Hero
This man knows whats what. On the real, those locked rooms are literally there to make money. This is a business.
And the only joke bigger than the sbr is the straight up back room, which is basically just a bunch of kids who find other kids on SWF that they like, and then invite them in and talk about nothing, but get a hard on cuz their buddies with a bunch of dudes whos names are green.
Cia
das kwl
Truth be told, I want that green name more than anything. It's a really sexy color =D
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
Vanz I wanna MM your sheik. I don't think I did terribly bad vs it. XYT gave me the works but I think I can take you guys with a little practice. $5 MM XYT and Vanz?
Cia
das kwl
Sure, my Sheik got 3x better within the past 2 days ^_^
Reaver197
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2006
- Messages
- 1,287
That's pretty freaking scary sounding if I recall how well I fared last against your sheik. And that was ages ago.
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
Well you know I always have a new trick for you. Maybe I can do well.
xyt
Smash Lord
call me optomistic but for some reason i don't feel like i'd win a MM XD lol
i can give you plenty of friendlies though if you want : P
perhaps if you sandbag enough i'll get confident and challenge you lol
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
You kicked my a$$ when we played. MM's $5 and up are great cause they get people playing their best and it also gets you dibs on tv's. I don't sandbag unless I know the person is a complete noob. Then I try to sneak me a MM and win with just fairs. If I'm lucky, they ask for one more. But I'm always down for friendlies too.
UltimaScout
Smash Lord
You should MM my Marth
play me for $$$
UltimaScout
Smash Lord
If you use Ganon sure
PaperstSoapCo
Smash Lord
As long as it's $5 and not some $1 thing like at SPOC.You should MM my Marth