SmashCAP 1: [CONCEPT ASSESSMENT]

[Riddle]

If he can't learn stat up moves, then why is he trying to avoid taunt in the first place? For toxic? For burn? For paralyzing? For reflect? That doesn't seem like a very apt way to take down Bulky Offense.

Think about it. Why is Taunt Gliscor/Gyaradosy/Skarm/Whatever called a stall breaker? Because they prevent healing, Phazing, Paralyzing, entry hazard set-up, and similar things that Stall relies on. Take this situation for example: Taunt/Swords Dance/Rock Polish/Baton Pass switches in on your Skarmory. Skarmory is Taunted and fails to do anything or does pitiful damage with Drill Peck/Brave Bird. If this is a full stall team you are screwed. You can't phaze it out and you can't do enough damage to it to prevent it from getting a lot of boosts. It passes to Metagross or something that proceeds to sweep your team. Next scenario, same thing happens. Gliscor switches into skarm and taunts while you do nothing. You switch in CAP1 as Gliscor Rock Polishes. Now lets look at Gliscor's four options:

1) Rock Polish
2) Swords Dance
3) Taunt
4) Baton Pass

If he just rock polishes or swords dances Roar/WW will easily force him out get rid of his boosts and rack up entry hazard damage in the process. If he Taunts it has not effect and you Roar him out getting rid of his boost and racking up entry hazard damage. If he decides to Baton Pass out his Rock Polish the incoming poke takes entry hazard damage and then is roared out racking up some more entry hazard damage. Pretty much the same thing could happen with any Taunt/Boosting move or Sub user.

New scenario. TormentTran is out against your Blissey. Let's say this pokemon has Taunt/Torment like Writer's TormentTran does. Now your Blissey is of the Flamethrower/Toxic variety which is completely walled by Heatran. Heatran sets up a Sub as you switch to your Tentacruel. Heatran Torments and you break his sub with Surf. Next Heatran Taunts as you Wish making your Wish Fail. Heatran proceeds to Protect every other turn to not get hit by Surf and then Subs when you have to Struggle since you only have on attacking move. None of your pokemon can really do anything about him and so you lose a lot of damage from entry hazards/struggle until he runs out of PP.

Let's say you have CAP1 though. Heatran comes in on your Blissey and sets up a sub as you switch to CAP1. You come in and Roar him out unless he protects in which case you Roar him out the next turn.

A third and final scenario. Your opponent has a Latias who you know to be scarfed. Last time you switched your Blissey into him and he used a special attack which did very little damage. This time however you are pretty sure he is going to Trick hoping to catch your Blissey. What do you do? None of your pokemon will appreciate a Scarf especially not Blissey. If you are running a regular stall team then Latias just crippled one of your pokes. However, if you have CAP1 on your team, then you just switch him in and he gets the Scarf which doesn't limit his moves whatsoever. It does unfortunately take away his lefties recovery but many pokemon can function in stall without leftovers (Shed Shell Skarm). Furthermore, Latias can't trick anything onto anyone now since it has leftovers so it can be walled freely by Blissey.

Since this is my goal for CAP I am going to suggest the typing Water/Grass. It resists Water (Gyara Waterfall) and Ground (Gyara/Gliscor/Aero Earthquake and Heatran Earth Power) and Steel (Bullet Punch). It is only weak to Flying (lol), Poison (lmao), and Bug (U-turn I guess).

This makes it beat all common Taunters if it gets good defenses and it at leas checks common trickers/tormentran.

 

[Deleted member]

1. if you guys make an ability that gets around choice locks, I'm going to make fun of you.

2. if you make something over 530 BST that's fighting/rock, I'm going to make fun of you.

3. if you make ANOTHER priority sweeper, I'm going to make fun of you.

4. if you make it immune to trick, I'm going to make fun of you.

5. if you make an ability to prevent taunt, then give it amazing stat-boosting moves, I'm going to make fun of you.

From reading these posts, I can only guess that every single one of you has no semblance of balance at all. You can execute the pokemon and its role extremely effectively without introducing any broken typings, combinations, or new mechanics. I have seen all of those concepts promoted already.

I think you guys should really consider water/ground with levitate.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60995

if you don't understand where I'm going with this, stop posting.

 

[Riddle]

I agree that we can get around this w/o making up custom things, however its not going to give us the desired results. If we make a stall pokemon that gets around BO its most likely going to get around HO too which will make stall dominant. However, if we make a HO poke then stall will become completely unviable. However, there is a solution to this. What is a strategy that stall has trouble with that is nearly exclusive to Bulky Offense? Taunting and tricking. Therefore I believe we should go down this route.

Feel free to disagree, if you are right we can always re-balance.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not disagreeing with the anti-Taunt ability. I'm disagreeing with all of the complimentary qualities proposed that obviously make it way too good. For example, you can do Pink Reaper's idea, which is essentially a base 638 in sand (almost perfectly mimics Lugia's defenses with a better typing), give it max HP max def and bulk up. You can't stop the bulk up and if it gets a +1/+1 like that it's OVER. It's basically a Cradily from hell.

You guys really, really need to consider balance when proposing ideas, that's all.

 

[UltiMario]

I still like my Ghost/Steel Idea because it just seems to counter nearly everything in Bulky offense, and what it can't counter we can make a movepool work with it.

An anti-Taunt ability would be good for things like Toxic, and for recovery, most notibly for the typing I'm proposing, Pain Split. Anti-Torment would just be a plus, and help out with TormentTran, whilst rare, Tran is one of the few things that this typing could potentially have problems with, so every little bit helps.
We are tying to counter Bulky Offense here. This is virtually taking a Pokemon that can switch into half of the Bulky Offense Pokemon without fear of ANYHTING, and switch in on a few more with relatively little fear, whilst there are still others that would give it problems, Ghost/Steel will solve more problems with Bulky offense than it gets.
Yes, it could theoretically be used for resisting purposes, which slightly defeats the purpose of this, but most of the Smogon CAPs have this happening, where the actual end function is slightly different than the one origonally planned, but at least I'm sticking with the origonal ideas everyone has planned, as much as I can.

STAB Ghost is an amazing way to hit a few of these Pokemon, Steel resisting just as many, and their weaknesses, immunities, etc causing good balance. It being immune to the poweful Fighting moves like Machamp's Dynamic punch, which is a weakness of Steel, is a good example. Ghost type tends to drag along TONS of amazing moves that can definately wreck the Physical side of things, and Steel covers a lot as well on both sides. Steel also seems to bring along some cool things, not in the form of STAB moves, but more in the form of some side moves. Steel also grants some nice SS Immunity, and TTar is dealt with alot easier.

I propose a Ghost/Steel with relatively low HP for Pain Split to function, High Special Def to take the problems that things like Will-O-Wisp can't solve. All other characteristics could be decided during appropriate times.

We're here to counter Bulky offense, not completley anniahlate everything in our path that rhymes with it, like our Special Technician Fisted Stratagem.

I'll be gone in New York City until Thanksgiving, and unless can find Wifi that my DSi will work with, don't expect to hear anyhting from me for a while.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'd like to say a quick thank you to the people I've seen tell others to get back on track and all.
--
My 2 cents: I'd like to propose a Water / Ghost with Levitate. Provided with good defenses, SmashCAP 1 will be immunte to Earthquake, Close Combat, etc. and resistant to Surf, Ice Beam, Bullet Punch, and Fire Blast. All of these are key attacks in the OU metagame. Without making it too broken, SmashCAP 1 is left with Grass, Electric, Ghost, and Dark as weaknesses. The Electric-type weakness can easily be countered by pairing it with something like Flygon, who also happens resists Grass.

This leaves Dark and Ghost-type attacks. Ghost-types are easily remedied by having a Steel or Normal-type as a partner, the most important thing that we need to note is Pursuit. If SmashCAP 1 becomes Water / Ghost, it can easily stop Scizor with good defenses resisting Bullet Punch. However it then becomes Pursuit-prey. This can be remedied by Hidden Power [Fire] (see below). Tyranitar is also a common Pursuit user, but is absolutely ruined by SmashCAP 1's STAB Surf. If it is more physically defensive then it shouldn't worry too much about other weaker Pursuit users in general.

Now onto the offenses of SmashCAP 1 under this proposed typing: STAB Water ruins Heatran, Tyranitar, and Gliscor. Water-type STAB also provides a KO against Infernape.
STAB Ghost on the other hand punishes Latias and Starmie, while scaring off enemy Rotom-A. Being part Water-type means it will get access to Ice-type moves, something of which to hurt Salamence, Flygon, Latias, Gliscor, Togekiss and Tyranitar with.

Someting to consider for a Water / Ghost: Earth Power would be a seemingly good move to pack, as it would hit Metagross and Empoleon for SE damage, 2 Pokemon who resist SmasCAP 1's STAB. As you can tell I'm aiming for this idea to be specially biased.

Of the top 12 bulkiest offense users, SmashCAP 1 will be able to cover all but Gyarados, Swampert, Jirachi, and Suicune. Hidden Power [Grass] can snag Swampert and Suicune, while [Electric] and [Fire] hit Gyarados and Jirachi respectively. Hidden Power [Fire] can also ruin Scizor. Of course it will be highly unlikely that SmashCAP 1 will be running the extra Hidden Power, as it needs the slots for supportive moves as well. This way it can comfortably counter a good number of the most common bulky-offense users today.

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

Water / Ghost doesn't resist Stone Edge.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Whoops. My bad, I fixed it with teh Editz button.

-Terywj

 

[Mewter]

Just a quick question: how would a water ghost type know earth power? It would be good for hitting steels, but just... how? (Some Pokemon have moves like this in-game such as Raichu and Grass Knot). It seems kind of selectively placed there to make the Pokemon have a little too much coverage.

Then, again. I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

What if this Water / Ghost was like some spirit from the depths of the ocean? (Heatran is some random moster in a volcano so I don't see why not).

-Terywj

 

[Mewter]

What if this Water / Ghost was like some spirit from the depths of the ocean? (Heatran is some random moster in a volcano so I don't see why not).

-Terywj

Ha, that could (actually) work. But you would have to give it mud-slap and muddy water too for the lulz.

Heatran is actually typed as a fire and steel, which makes some sense (fire because it is in a volcano and rock + pressure and heat= hard thing). If we base CAP1 on an ocean water spirit, then earth power would make some sense. It could be the opposite of Heatran (dead souls-whatever are lost in the rivers and in the bottoms of oceans)!
Although it has something to do with the earth, it still doesn't make complete sense (the earthquakes cause the tsunamis, and not the other way around for example). But it's a great excuse.

 

[Spire]

Isn't Manaphy kind of a Water Spirit?

Actually a Water/Ghost would be great. It's description could be: "______ comes from the depths of the ocean and is said to be the embodiment of many Pokemon who were lost at sea and never returned to their homes."

We could sort of base it on the Siren and the Banshee, giving it Sing and/or other vocal-based moves, though only as a small add-on to its main build.

 

[Riddle]

Straying away from flavor discussion I have a problem with Water/Ghost. It's pursuit weak.

 

[Mewter]

A water-ghost is a great idea. Story-wise, it's pretty fascinating and original, and battle-wise (if Terywj is correct) it is equally as cool.

Ultimario and Riddle, your ideas were great too, but I think this one stuck out the most to me.

@Riddle above:
Is being pursuit weak something that its role needs to defend against as an anti-Bulky Offense, or is being pursuit weak something that you just don't like about it?
If it's the latter, then I think we should keep it pursuit weak. It needs some kind of weakness (disregard this if it is the former though).

 

[Wave⁂]

Straying away from flavor discussion I have a problem with Water/Ghost. It's pursuit weak.

Yeah, I was wondering how this guy deals with Scizor...

 

[Riddle]

If its pursuit weak then Scizor/Tyranitar switch in on it and kill it. Then its out of the game and didn't help your team at all.

 

[Wave⁂]

Being countered by Tyranitar isn't a problem, we can't make this guy Uber tier. But being countered by Scizor is very bad.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Again, you can't counter them all but here's what I have to think:

Scizor is everywhere. Scizor also carries Choice Band 90% of the time. SmashCAP 1 will resist Bullet Punch, which is what Scizor uses 90% of the time. Scizor will obviously switch-out, doing null with Bullet Punch and allows SmasCAP 1 to support / setup / do whatever it needs to do. If Scizor is going to return via double switch you might as well use a supportive move the turn it goes out, then switch a Scizor counter when it comes back in. Or blast it with Hidden Power [Fire].

Also, Tyranitar doesn't really prefer to come in on a Surf, although Sand Stream will weaken it.

Edit: Also, how long do we want to run concept assessment for? A good week? 5 days?

-Terywj

 

[Riddle]

Scizor can switch in and kill this thing. That is not good.

 

[Spire]

Who cares if Scizor or Tyranitar can kill it. It's not like we're programming this Pokemon into the actual game. There are plenty of Pokemon that aren't high tier rankers that are still nicely designed Pokemon. If all Pokemon were incredible, then tires would not exits and all would be equal and boring. We need some weirdos like Shuckle every now and then.

 

[Wave⁂]

Scizor is everywhere. Scizor also carries Choice Band 90% of the time.

| Scizor | Item | Choice Band | 57.1 |

If Scizor is going to return via double switch you might as well use a supportive move the turn it goes out, then switch a Scizor counter when it comes back in. Or blast it with Hidden Power [Fire].

Then you have to predict a switch. Having to predict a double switch is unreliable.

Also, Tyranitar doesn't really prefer to come in on a Surf, although Sand Stream will weaken it.

Again, you have to predict Tyranitar.

Edit: Also, how long do we want to run concept assessment for? A good week? 5 days?

Until we're done.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Another thing: SmashCAP 1 is designed to frown on bulky offense, not utterly destroy it. Remember the list of the top bulky offensive Pokemon? Only Scizor and Tyranitar actually use Pursuit (Metagross too I guess), while SmashCAP 1 can handle the remainder. Isn't that something we want? Something that can hold its own against these bulky attackers? We didn't make the concept "Anti-Pursuit," so does it honestly matter if the typing will make it weak to Pursuit? I hardly think so.

-Terywj

 

[CRASHiC]

Do we need a pokemon that counters the team 100 percent, or just one that bumps up another one to nicely counter it?

EDIT- what Terywij said.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Do we need a pokemon that counters the team 100 percent, or just one that bumps up another one to nicely counter it?

Mine and Spire's points exactly.

-Terywj

 

[Riddle]

Scizor is on 32% of all teams and a majority of bulky offense teams probably. If Scizor switches in on this pokemon it dies. The pokemon can no longer counter anything. The problem isn't that it doesn't counter everything. The problem is that its trapped by Scizor so it can't even switch out. If scizor could easily revenge it with Bullet Punch I wouldn't mind, however Scizor kills this thing if it switches in and thus it can't counter any of bulky offense at all.

@Spire We are trying to build a competitive pokemon.

 

[Spire]

Scizor is on 32% of all teams and a majority of bulky offense teams probably. If Scizor switches in on this pokemon it dies. The pokemon can no longer counter anything. The problem isn't that it doesn't counter everything. The problem is that its trapped by Scizor so it can't even switch out. If scizor could easily revenge it with Bullet Punch I wouldn't mind, however Scizor kills this thing if it switches in and thus it can't counter any of bulky offense at all.

@Spire We are trying to build a competitive pokemon.

I understand that, but some Pokemon can be very situational. Scizor may be commonly found on opposing teams, so that would make this Pokemon even riskier to use -- which means we could design it to have a sharp advantage if given the opportunity to perform correctly. It'd be a gamble.

 

[Riddle]

Scizor's usage would spike and this pokemon would completely fail to counter Bulky Offense.

 

[CRASHiC]

Naturally though, there are ways around this.
Gengar can take a pursuit and not die. So from there we would just have to give this SmashCAP pokemon the offensive tools to take down Scizor- aka a good fire attack. Being a ghost, it won't be too far off to imagine.

 

[Riddle]

I can tell I'm not going to convince you guys. Whatever I'll just laugh and use a Ttar bulky Offense team and continually kill off CAP1's.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I can tell I'm not going to convince you guys. Whatever I'll just laugh and use a Ttar bulky Offense team and continually kill off CAP1's.

We're not even going to be implementing this Pokemon onto Shoddy, so what difference does it make? SmashCAP is to provide a fun yet competitive time where the Poke Center community gathers and creates new Pokemon.

-Terywj

 

[Mewter]

We're not even going to be implementing this Pokemon onto Shoddy, so what difference does it make? SmashCAP is to provide a fun yet competitive time where the Poke Center community gathers and creates new Pokemon.

-Terywj

This is exactly what it is.^

Besides, CrashiC is right. Salt water can combust when the right radio frequency is used on it, so conceivably, an electric/water may be able to use fire attacks (Lanturn), but Nintendo didn't think of that. Similarly, a ghost type may be able to manipulate electromagnetic waves to its advantage (it is supernatural) and set fire to its water moves. Voila.

Not to say this Pokemon should be broken though, and it shouldn't be. We need to decide where it is okay to leave a few holes.

Edit: So what model should we go with? So far for Bulky Offense Counter we have:
-Ultimario's Ghost/Steel (Detailed Stats Here)
-Terywj's Ghost/Water (W/Levitate)
-Riddle's Water/Grass
-Pink Reaper's Fighting/Rock (W/Taunt-Neglecting Ability)
-Umbreon's Water/Ground (W/Levitate)
There we go.

 

[CRASHiC]

I can tell I'm not going to convince you guys. Whatever I'll just laugh and use a Ttar bulky Offense team and continually kill off CAP1's.

And so the team carries 1 Tyranitar counter as well. Having 1 pokemon that counters it is not making this pokemon fail in its goal. Every pokemon should have counters that the opponent can use to stop it.
Secondly, as previously stated, it doesn't want to switch in, but as Annoying said, it has to predict.
Pursuit isn't going to kill it either, if a choice banned technician boosted Scizor's pursuit doesn't kill a Gengar who doesn't switch, then I see no reason to believe that this would kill this pokemon unless its running Blissy like defense stat.
From there, Tyanitar is going to have to eat a surf, but can it survive? That all depends on that stats we go with.

Having 1 counter that isn't even that effective does not make this pokemon fail in its goal at all. In fact, I think the team should have 1 viable counter, because then we get the battle going down not to what team you are using, but how skilled you are, as the Bulky Offense Team will still have a way to shut down this IF they are more skilled at predicting than their opponent. We don't want Bulky Offense to have a Ganon Versus Ice Climbers or Bowser versus Shiek esq matchup. We just want to tip it in the stall team's favor by giving them a tool against it.

Oh, and as for evidence that water pokemon can learn fire attacks:

 

[Wave⁂]

Scizor's usage would spike

lol

just lol

 

[Riddle]

@ Crash

If you stay in then I just use Crunch. Again I have no problem with a counter to the pokemon however I do have a problem with a pokemon that can't be switched out of. CB ttar pursuit does more damage on the switch then Scizors by the way. Surf isn't going to do much damage at all anyways.

 

[CRASHiC]

At just 100 base Special attack max EVed, and mas HP EVs and max Special Defense EVs for Tyranitar, it does 56-66 percent damage. That means no switch in.

Assuming this same EV spread as I mentioned to protect you from getting killed by the Surf, Crunch to Mew from Choice Band Tyranitar does 66-77 damage on Mew, still leaving Tyranitar open for a 2 hit KO. Non boosted Pursuit on me staying in does 33-39 damage.

So, you have 2 choices that again come down to prediction. Choose Crunch and set me up for a revenge kill, or not hit me at all, leaving me fine to kill.
Choose Pursuit and get me on the way out, or barely scratch me and then I 2HKO you.
Again, it comes down to prediction. That will either screw you over and leave you with a dead or next to useless Tyranitar or a pokemon set up for a revenge kill.

Again, the goal is to make a counter against Bulky Offense Teams, not make Bulky Offense teams nonviable with a single pokemon.

 

[UltiMario]

Guess what.

Internet.

I'd just like to point out that Ghost/Steel counters Scizor completely. The absolute worst that a Scizor can do is a CB U-Turn, and thay being resisted is making it not much more than an incovenience. For TTar, let me just say that we'd have to make base speed work with this to make this work, but it can be feasibly countered by several moves, Brick Break, EQ, to an extent, Focus Blast. Whatever the shape, weight, etc that is given to it that can make it counter.

You just have to take into account that if you look at types, and what moves the Pokemon that hold them generally have, and see that Steel/Ghost has lots of nice moves to it. It serves a nice Niche in sponging up MANY attacks by Bulky offensive Pokemon, and if it can't, theres always the possiblity that it could be a risk to switch a Pokemon in until you know what set it is, which is an obvious fundemental to many Pokemon.


I say that ALL of you have excellent ideas, and we're all taking VERY different approaches. I think that having considerate bulk, a reliable recovery, and only enough power, and probably balanced power, to get just enough damage to go around, is the best, and most balanced approach here.

 

[Circa]

We're not even going to be implementing this Pokemon onto Shoddy, so what difference does it make? SmashCAP is to provide a fun yet competitive time where the Poke Center community gathers and creates new Pokemon.

-Terywj

Wait a second. So none of us are making this appear anywhere? Like, this Pokemon that we create will never exist? Then WTF was the point of this thread exactly? Because I'm honestly not seeing one now. What you basically just said is that we're doing a **** load of theory-crafting about making a competitive Pokemon and not expecting to ever make the thing. So basically it's like a wish with no result. Now, do you know the problem with a wish that carries no result? It'll never make a difference. And in most cases, something that makes no difference might as well not exist. So basically, this thread is already set up to fail. My proposal? Find someone who's dabbled a bit with programming and have them make a server on Shoddy, and then have them actually make these Pokemon a reality as we pop them out. It'll give results, and people will want to discuss this topic for longer because of that.

----------------------------------------------------

And to somewhat get back to the topic, Mow's right. Balance is HUGE when it comes to making this thing, and a lot of the ideas proposed thus far don't really say anything about balance. It's basically just "Omfg this would be awesome", even though it's not nearly as awesome as you think it is. And no Spire, something that is situational and a gamble to play with, even if it can have a huge payoff, is not the way to go from a competitive standpoint. Yes, some Pokemon are able to do that, but I don't believe it's easy to find an effective one in the OU metagame. Reason being is kinda basically what Riddle said.

As for typing, I agree with Water/Grass or Water/Ground (Levitate) as far as the ideas that have been proposed so far. Water/Ghost would be good aesthetically, but this is mainly competitive, and Scizor/Ttar Pursuit bait is bad. Also, although it probably won't fly because of its many resistances and weaknesses to a couple common moves, Steel/Dragon may not be a bad idea either. Give it sub-par offensive stats and maybe just borderline bulky defensive stats and it should meld decently well with its typing benefits. I'm admittedly not too good at working with the defensive aspect of competitive Pokemon though, so someone who knows a thing or two about defensive benefits for a typing/stat combo is completely allowed to tell me if my idea is bad or whatevs.

EDIT: For some weird reason I have this bad feeling about going the Ghost/Steel route. I guess it's got about the same advantages and disadvantages as Steel/Dragon though (apart from the immunity to Explosion, which could be major), so I can't really say much.

At just 100 base Special attack max EVed, and mas HP EVs and max Special Defense EVs for Tyranitar, it does 56-66 percent damage. That means no switch in.

Wrong. Like wayyyy wrong. Your standard 252 HP EV Ttar with no SDef EV investment is hit for a maximum of 58.42% from a 100 base SAtk with max EVs and a positive nature. Did you forget that Ttar has Sand Stream and is also of the Rock typing?

Now, assuming that the above portion of what I said is correct and people are going to just use standard or semi-standard EV spreads, your offensive calculations are wrong as well. No matter what you max out (as long as you run the above offensive EV spread), a standard CBTar's Pursuit is a guaranteed 2HKO and Crunch is a guaranteed OHKO. That means that if you don't predict the Ttar switch-in and decide to use something other than Surf, you're likely ****ed. Not trying to start a debate about who's right in thought process or whatevs, but I just thought I'd at least correct you on your calcs.

 

[Wave⁂]

Wait a second. So none of us are making this appear anywhere? Like, this Pokemon that we create will never exist?

It's not guaranteed that it will be implemented in any Shoddy servers.

Then WTF was the point of this thread exactly?

FUNFUNFUN

[...]something that is situational and a gamble to play with, even if it can have a huge payoff, is not the way to go from a competitive standpoint. Yes, some Pokemon are able to do that, but I don't believe it's easy to find an effective one in the OU metagame.

Stone Edge

Also, although it probably won't fly because of its many resistances and weaknesses to a couple common moves, Steel/Dragon may not be a bad idea either. Give it sub-par offensive stats and maybe just borderline bulky defensive stats and it should meld decently well with its typing benefits.

I dunno... I have a feeling Steel / Dragon would be hard to balance. Sounds good on paper, though.

 

[Circa]

It's not guaranteed that it will be implemented in any Shoddy servers.

He made it sound as though an implementation was never in the plan to begin with though, which is what made me say that. Btw, Shoddy =/= Smogon, so as long as someone can program it we can make it all a reality.

FUNFUNFUN

Being able to actually use these creations is more fun though imo. And I'm pretty sure a lot of people would agree with me.

Stone Edge

I meant as a Pokemon, not as a move. But I know that I've personally had enough issues with Stone Edge to always look for alternatives when trying to get good coverage. Just an fyi.

I dunno... I have a feeling Steel / Dragon would be hard to balance. Sounds good on paper, though.

That was exactly my issue, and the main reason why I figured it wouldn't fly (lolpun...it's a steel dragon! Of course it won't fly!). If someone could help balance it out though then it would at least be another worthy option to consider. And like I mentioned in my edit, Ghost/Steel is basically in the same boat. Only weak to Ground and Fire and resisting 11 types. Steel/Dragon is only weak to Ground and Fighting and resists 12 types. That's including all x0 resistances, which Ghost/Steel has 3 of and Steel/Dragon has 1 of. They're pretty close to equal.

 

[Mewter]

I dunno... I have a feeling Steel / Dragon would be hard to balance. Sounds good on paper, though.

Pshaw. Nonsense. It's easy. Just give it Volt Tackle, Judgement, Roar of time, Stone Edge, Seed Flare, Extremespeed, Dark Void, Superpower, 10 Move Slots, and an 800 BST.

Now put the Steel/Dragon on one side and all of the other Pokemon on the other. There, balanced.