SmashCAP 1: [CONCEPT ASSESSMENT]

[Wave⁂]

Fighting / Rock and Steel / Ghost both sound good.

There are NO good Rock-types moves. And Steel / Ghost has already been done by Smogon.

 

[CRASHiC]

Thought: Instead of having a taunt evading pokemon, how about we make it to where it doesn't need to bother with getting hit by taunt because from an offensive standpoint it still bothers a great deal of the bulky offense teams. This will free us up for the following ability:

Technician.
As annoying said, there are no good rock moves. This would give a much needed boost to ancient power to allow it to pile through the bulky offense teams.

 

[Pink Reaper]

The only trouble I see with this is that then these teams are going to just start carrying Blissey.

Also, given that it is going to be using special attacks, can't it beat Hippowdown?

Hippo can take most none-SE Special attacks rather well. With 88 SpDef EV's it takes 64% max from Timid Heatran's Fire Blast(one of the strongest special attacks you can get hit by) with Leftovers and Slack Off he can easily beat that 1 v 1

 

[CRASHiC]

Crunched some numbers, and technician special based Rock/Fighting works wonders.

It still gets countered by the walls.

But it can tear through the standard bulky offense team with technician/stab boosted with just 120 special base stat. We wouldn't have to put a ton in speed either thanks to Vacuum Wave. Ancient Power gives a less reliable Meteor Mash. Earth Power is a must if it wishes to shut down Metagross, and that leaves us with one open versatile move slot, unless there is a bulky pokemon I forgot to check.

 

[ss118]

I think we've done our job correctly if we force the use of blissey with this thing.

Blissey is basically asking you to lose momentum. Bulky Offense thrives on keeping momentum.

 

[Wave⁂]

Latias ?

 

[CRASHiC]

Hahaha, yep, that would be it. That causes problems. You'd probably from there give it either an ice attack, Bug Buzz, or Dragon Breath, depending on if those make sense with the design.
If none of those make sense, then perhaps we could give it a stat boosting move to make up for it.

 

[Deleted member]

IMO we should use a water/ground with levitate. I also think whirlwind is a must, as is base 96+ speed. 82 at the very lowest.

edit:

water/ground
levitate
HP: 83
att: 65
def: 100
SpA: 110
SpD: 100
Spe: 82
BST: 540

3rd evolution.

edit 2: any weight to make grass knot to 100 base power.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Fighting/Rock:
Ability that stops taunt
HP: 105
Atk: 65
Def: 110
SpAtk: 88
SpDef: 106
Spe: 86

560

I was thinking to allow it to learn both Calm Mind and Bulk Up. It still leaves him vulnerable on one end while still maintaining a threat. Calm Mind+Sandstorm lets it beat special threats while Bulk Up lets it threaten physical threats. Offensive stats kept low so it can't be a monster and just **** everything.

 

[Riddle]

If we want this pokemon to stop taunt/trick the best two typings are Water/Ground and Water/Fighting.

Water/Ground is only weak to Grass. It resists rock, fire, electric, and steel and isn't hit super effectively by any common taunter or tricker.

Fighting/Water is weak to Flying, Psychic, Electric, and Grass. It resists Water, Ice, Rock, Fire, Dark, and Steel which are all common types. The only common Taunters/Trickers that hit it for SE damage are Azelf, Latias, Rotom, and Gengar.

If we are going for originality or an offensive pokemon than I agree with Fighting/Rock though.

Fighting/Rock:
Ability that stops taunt
HP: 105
Atk: 65
Def: 110
SpAtk: 88
SpDef: 106
Spe: 86

560

I was thinking to allow it to learn both Calm Mind and Bulk Up. It still leaves him vulnerable on one end while still maintaining a threat. Calm Mind+Sandstorm lets it beat special threats while Bulk Up lets it threaten physical threats. Offensive stats kept low so it can't be a monster and just **** everything.

If we go the fighting Rock route I think we should go with an offensive sweeper that relies on priority/technician. If we do that it needs to have bad defensive stats or it will fall into bulky offense.

 

[Riddle]

Whoops, Double post.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

If we want this pokemon to stop taunt/trick the best two typings are Water/Ground and Water/Fighting.

Water/Ground is only weak to Grass. It resists rock, fire, electric, and steel and isn't hit super effectively by any common taunter or tricker.

Yes, but that's why we have bulky waters. Basically, that's just using a remix of Swampert,

Fighting/Water is weak to Flying, Psychic, Electric, and Grass. It resists Water, Ice, Rock, Fire, Dark, and Steel which are all common types. The only common Taunters/Trickers that hit it for SE damage are Azelf, Latias, Rotom, and Gengar.

Well, it may not work, as I have been seeing more Latiases (plural?) and Rotoms lately. Keep in mind thati play shoddy only, though. However, I suppose that may work.

If we are going for originality or an offensive pokemon than I agree with Fighting/Rock though.

I completely agree.

 

[Riddle]

Yes, but that's why we have bulky waters. Basically, that's just using a remix of Swampert,

Except its made to counter taunt and trick which Swampert completely fails to do. So its actually just got the same typing which is true for a lot of things. Pelliper/Gyarados, Scizor/Forretress, Metagross/Bronzong. Why not make this pokemon do its job well?

 

[UltiMario]

This is starting to sound like Stratagem with fists, IMO.....

 

[Riddle]

The problem is that SmogonCAP has done 9 CAPS with varying ideas, so we are bound to do something similarly. There is only so much you can do to make a viable pokemon that fulfills a new role.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Except its made to counter taunt and trick which Swampert completely fails to do.

Sorry, didn't catch that part. >_<

 

[RuNNing Riot]

You know, I wonder how long this can go on before Smogon noticed that we're hijacking their idea. Who doesn't mind going to do some spying work, then?

 

[CRASHiC]

As we debate the primary ability, I bring up a nice secondary ability. Klutz. This would make trick useless and a choice scarf Starmie running trick would have to take the risk of switching in to a Dark Pulse as well as waiting the Trick against a possible Klutz pokemon. It would also solve the 'how viable is a pokemon that can only do one thing" because it is no longer just a pokemon that can shut down Bulky Offense teams but it can be a powerful user of trick as well.

 

[UltiMario]

That is actually an extremely good idea. Having an anti-taunt, etc Ability, and Klutz to stop trick.....

Heh....
I might as well bring up a general sketch of the Ghost/Steel idea I had.

HP: 55
Atk: 105
Def: 110
SpAtk: 90
SpDef: 95
Spe: 105
Total: 560

This is a rough Idea here, it has enough attack to deal with the problems that it comes across, but it also has enough Special attack to be able to run things like Thunderbolt and still do good damage.

 

[Wave⁂]

Klutz is also a curse. Recovery move is kind necessary, then. Take a look at Cresselia; her only good recovery move is Rest, and would probably drop to BL if she didn't have Psycho Shift.

 

[UltiMario]

Actually, we could use Sticky Hold. That way, items can't be tricked, IIRC. It'll also prevent Knock-Off.

 

[CRASHiC]

Yes but Sticky Hold doesn't add to his versatility and just focuses more on the anti-taunt-trick aspect of him.

 

[SpiredMoth]

Sticky Hold does prevent Trick and Switcheroo from working.

If we go with Sticky Hold, then the pokemon would have to be a sweeper to get around Taunt.

damg, ninja'd

 

[UltiMario]

Yeah, but does Klutz get around Taunt?

 

[Riddle]

I would personally like to make anti-taunt an ability where the pokemon basically can't have any of its move options blocked. That would prevent Taunt, Choice Items, Torment, Disable, Imprison, etc. from having any effect on it.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I would just like to voice out my support for a Special Rock / Fighting idea.
More importantly, please keep to the assessment. I do believe I saw some stat spreads around; those are for a later stage. Thank you!

-Terywj

 

[Neo Exdeath]

I would personally like to make anti-taunt a move where the pokemon basically can't have any of its move options blocked. That would prevent Taunt, Choice Items, Torment, Disable, Imprison, etc. from having any effect on it.

That would actually fit completely. I really like this idea.

 

[Metal~Mario]

I would personally like to make anti-taunt an ability where the pokemon basically can't have any of its move options blocked. That would prevent Taunt, Choice Items, Torment, Disable, Imprison, etc. from having any effect on it.

^I think I mentioned that earlier....

Except for the Choice Items part. Which means giving him low attacking stats would be useless because he would be overpowered with a Choice item and the ability to switch moves.

 

[UltiMario]

Actually, if we make it immune to Choice Lock, it can get Base 80 Atk, SpA, and Spe, which means any choice item won't give it enough to become overpowered, sure, strong/fast enough to be more of a threat, but you're still better offesively sticking a Life Orb on something else. Stong enough to hit something at least semi-decently without the boost, and have a good hit with it.

 

[Blaziking17]

As we debate the primary ability, I bring up a nice secondary ability. Klutz. This would make trick useless and a choice scarf Starmie running trick would have to take the risk of switching in to a Dark Pulse as well as waiting the Trick against a possible Klutz pokemon. It would also solve the 'how viable is a pokemon that can only do one thing" because it is no longer just a pokemon that can shut down Bulky Offense teams but it can be a powerful user of trick as well.

Sticky Hold does prevent Trick and Switcheroo from working.

If we go with Sticky Hold, then the pokemon would have to be a sweeper to get around Taunt.

Here's what I see, if we want the created Pokemon to be a wall, semi-wall, then Klutz is a good option; if we want a sweeper, then Sticky Hold is a good option only if it was meant for an Uber tier Shoddy battle because of the Taunt scare.

@Terywj, for your idea, maybe a split-evo with Riolu-Lucario, it only would make sense since Lucario is Fighting/Steel.

 

[CRASHiC]

I only think we should create a new ability if absolutely necessary.

 

[UltiMario]

Unless we're going with like, CB DNite here, yes, we're going to need a new ability.

Also, apparently if your Pokemon is holding a Mail, you can't be tricked.

And Mails are not implemented on shoddy.

Sadface.

 

[CRASHiC]

No, we don't. Special based Fighting/Rock with Technican still ***** a bulky offense team, Starmie not being able to switch in safely against it to Trick it, and the rest of the team being annihilated by it. The goal is to counter bulky offense, this does it without needing to make a new ability.

 

[Riddle]

I would much rather create a pokemon to help out stall, because HO basically counters stall and so if we helped that out instead stall would basically become not viable. However, if we helped out stall instead Stall would counter BO, BO would counter HO, and HO would counter stall creating a nice little balance.

 

[UltiMario]

Anti-Taunt/Move restrictions was one of the key ideas of this, and now you're saying we should just go away from that?

Shenanigans.

 

[CRASHiC]

Its not the basic concept though. If you want to see a world without taunt and trick and tormet, go play the HG/SS metagame. That's what this pokemon would cause. Every team would require a pokemon with Whirlwind or Roar, making Skamory's use shoot threw the roof, because without access to those 2 moves, this pokemon would simply bring its stats to such great stall heights that it would be untouchable.

Instead, simply hurting Bulky Offense would be the best course of action to make stall teams more viable.

 

[Riddle]

Why the muk would every team require WW/Roar. This is one defensive pokemon getting access to the ability. He wouldn't even learn stat up moves.

 

[CRASHiC]

If he can't learn stat up moves, then why is he trying to avoid taunt in the first place? For toxic? For burn? For paralyzing? For reflect? That doesn't seem like a very apt way to take down Bulky Offense.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I'd like to point out that special rock/fighting with technician still loses to Rotom-A. Just saying.

 

[ss118]

Let's just go back to the typing please. ._.'

Other than the fact that Rock/ Fighting typing loses to Scizor(probably the glue of bulky offense teams), does anyone have any counter-arguments for it? I could say that Ghost/ Steel would be too popular among stall teams with the plethora of resistances available to it, just to stop RS. No Pursuit weak helps too.... plus it's been done before. =P

I didn't see any other suggestions...