SmashCAP 1: [CONCEPT ASSESSMENT]

[Terywj [태리]]

Ahh. My fault, I'll go remove it.

A little under 24 hours left to submit your concept ideas for SmashCAP 1!

-Terywj

 

[Deleted member]

for a nice clean definition, let's say "bulky" is something with over 250 base total in HP def and SpD combined.

 

[Mewter]

Shed Skin?

No, not like paralysis or poison. More like lowered Attack wearing off. It would work in the same fashion, though.


@Terywj

Name - Trikstr (AKA a Boost-Up Nullifier)

Description - Item, Stat, and move tricker.
This Pokemon makes it possible for you to use your opponents items, stat boosts, and moves in general to your own advantage if used properly.

Justification - A Pokemon that makes your opponent think twice before using their Pokemon, but also makes you think twice before using yours (Yeah, no really specific justifications) simply because you might land yourself with a choice item on accident if not planned, in which case your opponent can quickly KO you. If used correctly, you can turn the tide of battle (in the cases that almost all hope seems lost because of say, a curse-lax).

Questions To Be Answered - Does this Pokemon centralize too much?
In what way can this be countered? Is this even useful?

Explanation - This Pokemon may be able to utilize moves such as Trick/Thief, Haze, Agility, Power Trick, Encore, Guard Swap, Attack Swap, Psych Up, Mimic, or Switcheroo with its high speed stat. Several Dark type moves as well as fighting type moves may also be used. Think very skilled and ninja-like.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

No, not like paralysis or poison. More like lowered Attack wearing off. It would work in the same fashion, though.


@Terywj

Name - Trikstr (AKA a Boost-Up Nullifier)

Description - Item, Stat, and move tricker.
This Pokemon makes it possible for you to use your opponents items, stat boosts, and moves in general to your own advantage if used properly.

Justification - A Pokemon that makes your opponent think twice before using their Pokemon, but also makes you think twice before using yours (Yeah, no really specific justifications) simply because you might land yourself with a choice item on accident if not planned, in which case your opponent can quickly KO you. If used correctly, you can turn the tide of battle (in the cases that almost all hope seems lost because of say, a curse-lax).

Questions To Be Answered - Does this Pokemon centralize too much?
In what way can this be countered? Is this even useful?

Explanation - This Pokemon may be able to utilize moves such as Trick/Thief, Haze, Agility, Power Trick, Encore, Guard Swap, Attack Swap, Psych Up, Mimic, or Switcheroo with its high speed stat. Several Dark type moves as well as fighting type moves may also be used. Think very skilled and ninja-like.

Alright, thanks, will add Boost-Nullifier to the list in place of Anti-Taunt.

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

No, not like paralysis or poison. More like lowered Attack wearing off. It would work in the same fashion, though.

How about Clear Body, where you never even have to feel the ailment in the first place?

Also, I deon't get how 60 / 85 /85 w/ reliable recovery seems to be given more bulk than 120/120/130 with little reliable recovery. Its like, OK, so you recover less because you are more defensively inclined, so you don't need it?

Cresselia should just get Wish so I can stop *****ing about this to random people and we can actually limit down the Never-seen OUs to only Heracross.

 

[SpiredMoth]

I think the idea is more like Hyper Cutter, but for all stats.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I think the idea is more like Hyper Cutter, but for all stats.

So liek...Clear Body.

-Terywj

 

[Mewter]

No, more like Shed Skin but for stats.
This way, unlike with Clear Body, self induced stat drops (from Overheat or Curse for example) may also be wiped away (but not immediately).

 

[Terywj [태리]]

No, more like Shed Skin but for stats.
This way, unlike with Clear Body, self induced stat drops (from Overheat or Curse for example) may also be wiped away (but not immediately).

Ahh, I see. So a multi-use White Herb ability, right?

-Terywj

 

[Mewter]

Kind of like that, yeah.

I guess we should save that for some other stage of CAP, though.

 

[Zook]

I'm leaving SWF, so I won't be able to participate in this contet. So sorry, guys.

Good luck!

 

[Mewter]

It's a contest?
You're leaving, really? Have fun playing the game of life, Zook.
NOOO DON'T GO , ZOOOK!!!! : p

 

[Wave⁂]

I'm leaving SWF, so I won't be able to participate in this contet. So sorry, guys.

Good luck!

WHAT.

Also, have a nice life, Zook! Wear your seat belt!

 

[Terywj [태리]]

WAT?!

Bye Zook, have fun! ^_^ [I call dibs on his Mod spot, JK]

@Mewtwer: I know, I just wanted to make sure I understood the concept.

-Terywj

 

[Spire]

We need to make a Zook Pokemon at some point.

And to everyone, my main role will be the artistic director. Admittedly, I'm garbage when it comes to statistics, so I'll focus on the aesthetic design of the Pokemon. Of course, a good design would reflect the stats in some way, shape, or form, so tentative detailing will be necessary.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

You know what? I say we save the Anti-BO for later and make a Zook Pokemon!

...actually we wouldn't be able to finish it in time for Zook... *Sadface*

5 hours until the deadline closes.

-Terywj

 

[Mewter]

Actually, yes, we will!
No, I'm just kidding. We won't. *Additional Sadface*

You can do that, Spire.

My main role will be the guy that pops in once in a while and goes "Oh HAI GAIZ I SUPPOrT YOU!" and then wanders off to some random part of the Pokemon Center.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Guys we don't have to announce what our roles are. Everyone in the SWF community can take part in making these Pokemon.

-Terywj

 

[Terywj [태리]]

The SmashCAP 1 Concept Poll will be posted by Spire in the Strategy PokeDex subforum soon!
(We're going to rename it the SmashCAP subforum or something)
So please be alert and go vote!

-Terywj

 

[Neo Exdeath]

The SmashCAP 1 Concept Poll will be posted by Spire in the Strategy PokeDex subforum soon!
(We're going to rename it the SmashCAP subforum or something)
So please be alert and go vote!

-Terywj

What about non-researchers? I know that non-pokemon researchers don't post in the strategy Pokedex, but can we still vote on polls there?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

What about non-researchers? I know that non-pokemon researchers don't post in the strategy Pokedex, but can we still vote on polls there?

I've been talking to Umbreon and hopefully if things go smoothly he will change the subforum. Then normal members will be able to post, and heck even Pokemon Researchers could become Pokemon Scientist or something. (Courtesy of Spire)
Non-Researchers can post there anyways can't they? (I saw a post made by someone who isn't a Researcher, albeit it was from a while back)

-Terywj

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Non-Researchers can post there anyways can't they? (I saw a post made by someone who isn't a Researcher, albeit it was from a while back)

-Terywj

No, us-non researchers can't. Besides, that guy might have been a Pokemon researcher, but he decided against using the brownish username color researchers have.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Alright. Well again, I'm talking with Spire and Umbreon via PM on the subject, and hopefully it will be changed.

For now we just gotta wait for Spire to post the poll..

-Terywj

 

[CT Chia]

wake me up when balancing is being done, id like to be a part of it. sounds rly interesting

 

[Riddle]

I hope that the pokemon researcher thing is fixed. It would be somewhat ironic if I couldn't even vote for my own concept. :-P

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Voting will close @ 8. Afterwards we will move on to the next stage.

-Terywj

 

[CRASHiC]

OH OH OH!
I CP Pokefloats for the next stage.
Get camped!

 

[Riddle]

Too bad I already banned it.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

</Can a Mod delete this? Unnecessary post.>

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Concept Voting is now over. SmashCAP 1 will be focused on countering bulky offense! :D

I've edited the OP to match our current stage. Please disucss what you think will basically be necessary for SmashCAP 1 to counter bulky offensive critters like Gyarados, Heatran, etc.

Also, if you could suggest other stuff I should post in the OP that would be great.

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

Bulky attackers:

Heatran, Rotom, Gyarados, Latias, Jirachi, Gliscor, Salamence, Scizor, Metagross, Swampert, Starmie, Tyranitar, Suicune, Machamp, Togekiss, and Empoleon.

This... is not going to be easy.

EDIT: Filtering out Pokemon with less than 250 defensive BST. Rearranging in order of usage...

Filter:
Heatran, Rotom, Gyarados, Latias, Jirachi, Gliscor, Metagross, Swampert, Tyranitar, Suicune, Togekiss, and Empoleon.

Machamp and Salamence has DBST of 255 and are lower "priority". Scizor has DBST of 250.
Starmie was cut.

Usage (Oct 09 OU Shoddy ladder)
Gyarados, Latias, Rotom-A, Heatran, Metagross, Tyranitar, Jirachi, Swampert, Gliscor, Empoleon, Suicune, Togekiss.

 

[Riddle]

I think we should go the route of countering taunters and trickers. So running the level-headed ability or whatever its called and a phasing move could be helpful.

 

[UltiMario]

I've been trying to think of types that can beat most of these Pokemon.
Ghost/Steel is the best I've gotten so far.
:D : Empoleon, Togekiss, Machamp, Suicune, Starmie, Scizor, Jirachi, Latias
:| : Gliscor, Swampert, TTar
D: : Heatran, Metagross

Metagross will be neigh impossible to counter unless its lacking EQ, otherwise, how we work the stats and movepool can make Heatran, Gliscor, Swampert, and TTar more managable.

Looks fine on paper/in compared to their standard sets

 

[CRASHiC]

From those I took Gyaradose, Glsicor, Metagross, Heatran, Swampert, and Tyranitar, who I believe are the most used at least from what I've seen. Scizor is used more of course, but more as a Scout. Let's also add in Suicune just for accuracy.

From this, there is one giant stab weakness that is prevalent, that being water. Only Suicune and Gyarados are are resistant to water. So from there I ***** that a water type would be very useful for its offensive stab.

 

[ss118]

I suggest just making a new topic. But whatever.

First thing I think we should do would be to decide on typing. However, I would recommend posting Dual typings, unlike smogon who does each one individually.

Reasoning? Because that way we don't look like -complete- copycats, which is probably the biggest reason. The other reason is that I think it's better to pick two types that have synergy rather than just two types that seem good individually but might be trouble when conflicted.
---

Now for my personal opinion. To be able to counter Bulky offense, we have to be able to determine what it is and what it consists of. Bulky Offense teams generally consist of pokemon that boost their stats by using overall threatening abilities and defensive stats to set up, generally working well with each other with typing and by "converging" well together to get the other one in safely. By "converging", I mean something along the lines of letting DDmence die to Scizor's BP so that you CM Suicune could get in the crutial CM to set up and take down that annoying Rotom.

Bulky offense teams consist of: Salamence, Gyarados, Scizor, Metagross, Tyranitar, and many, many others. They tend to switch more than usual teams, so they have a slightly harder time taking on stall teams if said stall team is appropriately prepared.

Bulky Offense teams all have one thing in common: they thrive with SR. That's why I believe that our CaP must be somewhere between resisting SR or completely neutral to it.

"What typing do you propose, Mr Articanus sir?" Let me tell you!

I propose the typing to be Fighting/Rock.

The first thing that might pop pop into your head is that this has really good STABs. I suggested this because I think that a bunch of offensive teams have a hard time combating this offensive combination. The bulkiest things you might see are Salamence, Gyarados, Zapdos, and others. What do these all have in common? They are used as fighting counters for these offensive teams. They are all weak to Rock type moves as well. So yeah: do the math.

What I like about this typing is that while it does it's job at countering the general idea of bulky offense, but it doesn't necessarily **** it or it metagame: in fact, people can find some good counters such as Celebi, who wouldn't mind take a CB CC or SE from it(assuming we go physical: I like trying a combination of dual STAB with Aura Sphere and Ancientpower).

 

[Pink Reaper]

Special Rock/Fighting might actually be a better idea. Most bulky offensive pokemon are bulkier in Def then SpDef and two of the very common pokemon you just listed, Mence and Gyara pack Intimidate. It would also fit the "Can't straight up beat walls" idea in that it can't deal well with Hippowdon or Skaormory(assuming we don't go crazy and give it like Base 130 in SpAtk and Nasty Plot or something)

 

[Mewter]

Even better yet, giving it Fighting and Rock type while giving it the ability Solid Rock.

Yeah, I went there.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Then you lose to taunt. GG, you've officially strayed from the original idea of this pokemon.

 

[Mewter]

Oh, alright then.

"Oh hi guys! I support you!"
*Vanishes*

 

[CRASHiC]

Special Rock/Fighting might actually be a better idea. Most bulky offensive pokemon are bulkier in Def then SpDef and two of the very common pokemon you just listed, Mence and Gyara pack Intimidate. It would also fit the "Can't straight up beat walls" idea in that it can't deal well with Hippowdon or Skaormory(assuming we don't go crazy and give it like Base 130 in SpAtk and Nasty Plot or something)

The only trouble I see with this is that then these teams are going to just start carrying Blissey.

Also, given that it is going to be using special attacks, can't it beat Hippowdown?