SmashBoards Creates: PlayStation All Stars 2

[Wario Wario Wario]

1. Ribbon
2. TV World
3. Invasion

 

[cashregister9]

1. TV World
2. Ribbon
3. Kirameki

 

[Yokta]

Looking back on these last two nominations, I see an interesting diversion in my arguments.

My objection over Radec began before the nominations even started, because the nominations were arbitrarily limited to villains for no good reason. I can't imagine that Radec would have been nominated at all if it weren't for this rule. Unfair as it was, Radec's nomination wasn't specifically against the rules, and he won the vote fair and square.

When the final wildcard nominations were opened, I assumed everyone would nominate a single character idea, which is why it was pretty galling to see a nomination that encompassed multiple ideas. It was eve more galling to see them win by three votes, or a single voter's choice, meaning this ambiguity was likely the only reason they won. It seems my complaints fell on deaf ears though, because accepting them would mean leaving TLOU out of the roster, and even I consider that to be a greater injustice.

So our last two slots have been given to a character who feels undeserving but didn't break the rules, and a character who feels deserving but wasn't fairly nominated. I can't deny I've been left with a pretty sour taste in my mouth.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Looking back on these last two nominations, I see an interesting diversion in my arguments.

My objection over Radec began before the nominations even started, because the nominations were arbitrarily limited to villains for no good reason. I can't imagine that Radec would have been nominated at all if it weren't for this rule. Unfair as it was, Radec's nomination wasn't specifically against the rules, and he won the vote fair and square.

When the final wildcard nominations were opened, I assumed everyone would nominate a single character idea, which is why it was pretty galling to see a nomination that encompassed multiple ideas. It was eve more galling to see them win by three votes, or a single voter's choice, meaning this ambiguity was likely the only reason they won. It seems my complaints fell on deaf ears though, because accepting them would mean leaving TLOU out of the roster, and even I consider that to be a greater injustice.

So our last two slots have been given to a character who feels undeserving but didn't break the rules, and a character who feels deserving but wasn't fairly nominated. I can't deny I've been left with a pretty sour taste in my mouth.

For Radec, we open a "none of the above" category, and Radec still won, so despite what I was initially thinking, he was indeed popular enough to win. I don't see the prolem with Radec.

And for The last of us, I think the reason why it got a pass for a more vague nomination is because whoever wins would have a very similar (if not exactly the same) moveset. People where torn between Joel, Ellie, both at the same time or even Abby arguably, but in the end they all do the same things: use guns, craft things, use traps etc. So it didn't really matter who was in.

 

[Yokta]

For Radec, we open a "none of the above" category, and Radec still won, so despite what I was initially thinking, he was indeed popular enough to win. I don't see the prolem with Radec.

And for The last of us, I think the reason why it got a pass for a more vague nomination is because whoever wins would have a very similar (if not exactly the same) moveset. People where torn between Joel, Ellie, both at the same time or even Abby arguably, but in the end they all do the same things: use guns, craft things, use traps etc. So it didn't really matter who was in.

Maybe you have a point with Radec - we can't really prove that he wouldn't have won in a wildcard setting - but I'm still against the concept of a generic catch-all nomination, regardless of how similar the choices are.

 

[osby]

Looking back on these last two nominations, I see an interesting diversion in my arguments.

My objection over Radec began before the nominations even started, because the nominations were arbitrarily limited to villains for no good reason. I can't imagine that Radec would have been nominated at all if it weren't for this rule. Unfair as it was, Radec's nomination wasn't specifically against the rules, and he won the vote fair and square.

When the final wildcard nominations were opened, I assumed everyone would nominate a single character idea, which is why it was pretty galling to see a nomination that encompassed multiple ideas. It was eve more galling to see them win by three votes, or a single voter's choice, meaning this ambiguity was likely the only reason they won. It seems my complaints fell on deaf ears though, because accepting them would mean leaving TLOU out of the roster, and even I consider that to be a greater injustice.

So our last two slots have been given to a character who feels undeserving but didn't break the rules, and a character who feels deserving but wasn't fairly nominated. I can't deny I've been left with a pretty sour taste in my mouth.

You know, we can just add Filbo as DLC if we come to that.

 

[Yokta]

You know, we can just add Filbo as DLC if we come to that.

My thoughts exactly. I reckon making Filbo and Kulche rivals is a brilliant excuse for DLC.

 

[ivanlerma]

You know, we can just add Filbo as DLC if we come to that.

I definitely agree

 

[Megadoomer]

Here are the results for the stage vote:

Temen-Ni-Gru: 0
The Island: 0
Kirameki Private High School: 1
GPU Jungle: 3
Invasion: 7
The Prison: 8
Ribbon: 12
The TV World: 13
Amusement Park: 16

As a result, Amusement Park, the TV World, and Ribbon will be added to the game, and that finishes our stage list for the base game!

In addition, going by yesterday's series of polls, people seem to want:

a) a team between Joel and Ellie, rather than a solo character
b) Joel as the main player character
c) the vote between an Ice Climbers style team and clones of each other is currently tied

The first two seem set, but I'll leave the third poll up for a bit longer with the hope that the tie will be broken. (if it's not broken, I'll pick the one that I didn't originally nominate as the winner) (EDIT: nobody's voted in the past twelve hours or so, so I'll go with the idea that I didn't nominate, where they're a two-in-one combo like Ice Climbers or Rosalina)

I had intended to do a fake-out here before revealing that we were going to add 2 or 4 clones/semi-clones, but I spilled the beans on that yesterday, so here we are.

For this category, characters need to share at least half of their moveset with another character. (whether the moves are identical or just similar; either way, they can't have a ton of completely unique moves) So, for example, Sparda would work as a Dante clone (since they play identically in the source material), Trish could potentially work as a semi-clone (her pistol-related moves would be the same as Dante's, and she'd have some identical sword attacks since she uses the Sparda weapon in a lot of spin-offs), but Vergil or Nero wouldn't fit either category unless you stretch it.

Since I want to keep the maximum amount of third party characters at roughly 1/3 of the roster, up to two third party clones/semi-clones can be included. If a character's already been listed as a costume or a minion, that's not a barrier; it can easily be changed. (and all of costumes/minions so far were submitted before I revealed that we were having a dedicated clone section)

When nominating a character, it would help to explain where they'd overlap with the original character, and how they'd be different. (presumably, there's going to be some difference, even if it's a small one)

For example, my nomination is...

Rivet (Ratchet clone)

Rivet already plays identically to Ratchet in the source material, from what's been seen of Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, so this seems like an easy fit. She has Kit on her back to take the place of Clank, and her weight, speed, and strength are the same as Ratchet's.

Her square attacks and most of her triangle attacks would be identical to Ratchet's, or at least work similarly. To my knowledge, the Lightning Ravager (the upwards attack) hasn't been shown in Rift Apart, but even if a similar weapon isn't used, an electrified wire can launch from her robotic hand for a similar effect. (she's shown to have a Swingshot, so I'm sure it could be modified) Her triangle attacks would use weapons that are functionally similar from Rift Apart or the 2016 game (such as the Predator Launcher for her missile launcher and the Burst Pistol for her pistol), though with different stats, speeds, etc. (for example, the Burst Pistol fires faster but does less damage, and it doesn't have the pause at the end that Ratchet's Constructo Pistol does)

For her circle attacks, rather than summoning Mister Zurkon, Rivet summons Mister Fungi, who acts similarly but shoots spores. The spores don't do as much damage as Mr. Zurkon's attacks, but they slow enemies down a little bit. Rather than planting a Tesla Spike, Rivet plants a Topiary Sprinkler, which acts like a deployable turret that damages enemies who get too close and covers them in grass. (this lasts a short time before disappearing) The other two (Plasma Striker and the Agents of Doom, which sounds like a comic book name) are the same.

Her throws are identical to Ratchet's throws, since they both use the same weapon.

Supers: level 1 is unchanged (though the appearance might be different to reflect a different RYNO model), but level 2 will be something else - the Negatron Collider (a laser gun which is charged up before firing a long-range beam that pierces through enemies) might work. After being fired, its angle could be changed, though there would be a lot of resistance to make doing that difficult.

EDIT: changing her level 3 super now that the game's came out. I'm not sure if this is a spoiler or not, so I'll spoiler tag it. Kit, Rivet's equivalent to Clank, changes into her warbot form, and Rivet hops on her shoulder. Kit becomes temporarily controllable, with each attack doing massive damage.

---

We'll go with two clones if there are five or less nominations, and four clones if there are six or more nominations. (unless the vote winds up being that Ellie's a clone of Joel, in which case we'll go with three)

EDIT: made some changes now that the game is out.

 

[ivanlerma]

Here are the results for the stage vote:

Temen-Ni-Gru: 0
The Island: 0
Kirameki Private High School: 1
GPU Jungle: 3
Invasion: 7
The Prison: 8
Ribbon: 12
The TV World: 13
Amusement Park: 16

As a result, Amusement Park, the TV World, and Ribbon will be added to the game, and that finishes our stage list for the base game!

In addition, going by yesterday's series of polls, people seem to want:

a) a team between Joel and Ellie, rather than a solo character
b) Joel as the main player character
c) the vote between an Ice Climbers style team and clones of each other is currently tied

The first two seem set, but I'll leave the third poll up for a bit longer with the hope that the tie will be broken.

I had intended to do a fake-out here before revealing that we were going to add 2 or 4 clones/semi-clones, but I spilled the beans on that yesterday, so here we are.

For this category, characters need to share at least half of their moveset with another character. (whether the moves are identical or just similar; either way, they can't have a ton of completely unique moves) So, for example, Sparda would work as a Dante clone (since they play identically in the source material), Trish could potentially work as a semi-clone (her pistol-related moves would be the same as Dante's, and she'd have some identical sword attacks since she uses the Sparda weapon in a lot of spin-offs), but Vergil or Nero wouldn't fit either category unless you stretch it.

Since I want to keep the maximum amount of third party characters at roughly 1/3 of the roster, up to two third party clones/semi-clones can be included. If a character's already been listed as a costume or a minion, that's not a barrier; it can easily be changed. (and all of costumes/minions so far were submitted before I revealed that we were having a dedicated clone section)

When nominating a character, it would help to explain where they'd overlap with the original character, and how they'd be different. (presumably, there's going to be some difference, even if it's a small one)

For example, my nomination is...

Rivet (Ratchet clone)

Rivet already plays identically to Ratchet in the source material, from what's been seen of Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, so this seems like an easy fit. Her melee weapon (a hammer, though it acts identically to Ratchet's Omni-Wrench) does more damage due to her robotic arm, but given that she doesn't have Clank on her back (since he's firmly with Ratchet in this game), she doesn't have the increased defense from behind that Ratchet has. (her weight and speed are the same as Ratchet's)

Her square attacks and most of her triangle attacks would be identical to Ratchet's, or at least work similarly. To my knowledge, the Lightning Ravager (the upwards attack) hasn't been shown in Rift Apart, but even if a similar weapon isn't used, an electrified wire can launch from her robotic hand for a similar effect. (she's shown to have a Swingshot, so I'm sure it could be modified) Her triangle attacks would use weapons that are functionally similar from Rift Apart or the 2016 game (such as the Predator Launcher for her missile launcher and the Burst Pistol for her pistol), though with different stats, speeds, etc. (for example, the Burst Pistol fires faster but does less damage, and it doesn't have the pause at the end that Ratchet's Constructo Pistol does)

For her circle attacks, rather than summoning Mister Zurkon, Rivet summons Mister Fungi, who acts similarly but shoots spores. The spores don't do as much damage as Mr. Zurkon's attacks, but they slow enemies down a little bit. Rather than planting a Tesla Spike, Rivet plants a Topiary Sprinkler, which acts like a deployable turret that damages enemies who get too close and covers them in grass. (this lasts a short time before disappearing) The other two (Plasma Striker and the Agents of Doom, which sounds like a comic book name) are the same.

Her throws are identical to Ratchet's throws, since they both use the same weapon.

Supers: level 1 is unchanged (though the appearance might be different to reflect a different RYNO model), but since Rivet doesn't have Clank, level 2 has to be something else - the Negatron Collider (a laser gun which is charged up before firing a long-range beam that pierces through enemies) might work. After being fired, its angle could be changed, though there would be a lot of resistance to make doing that difficult. For level 3, it's a cinematic where a dimensional rift appears in the background, bringing everyone to the dimension of the Fixer (the giant robot seen in this clip). The Fixer's on better terms with Rivet at this point, so she hops on his shoulder and says "Get 'em, big guy!" as the Fixer makes some sort of hammy statement and smashes/blasts the other fighters. (this could be changed if Rift Apart comes out and a better alternative presents itself)

Also, Rivet doesn't have the hover ability that Ratchet has, since that relies on Clank.

---

We'll go with two clones if there are five or less nominations, and four clones if there are six or more nominations. (unless the vote winds up being that Ellie's a clone of Joel, in which case we'll go with three)

YES, My Nomination Made It. I am very happy for it.

By the way, you do remember that Rivet was a costume idea for Ratchet's 4 alternatives right?

Wouldn't making her a clone/echo mess up the swappable alts for Ratchet?

 

[Jomosensual]

Clones:

Jill Valentine

Jill would function similarly to how Leon would given that they play the same in the games. Jill is also very popular, maybe even equal in that respect to Leon. They'd moat likely be clones with stat differences.

 

[osby]

Raven (Kat clone):

In Gravity Rush, Raven is practically a better Kat in terms of their abilities. This wouldn't really fly in this game so she'll be mostly identical to Kat with a few exceptions:

• Rather than Dusty, Raven is assisted by a crow named Xii that grants her gravity powers.
• Raven's Level 2 Super Move is High Pressure, which creates a field in front of her that can destroy multiple enemies at once by distorting gravity.
• Raven's Level 3 Super Move is Phoenix Mode, which is stronger and faster but doesn't stay out as long as Gravity Panther.
• Instead of Gravity Heel, she uses Blood Talon, which sacrifices distance to become a multi-hitting spinning kick.
• Instead of Debris Summon, she uses Blue Jay, which creates and throws five blue balls of energy as a slower but stronger attack.
• Her throws show her teleporting her opponents as a purely visual change.

 

[Yokta]

My clone nomination is for Cynder, as a clone of Spyro.

Cynder is the breakout star of post-Insomniac Spyro games. She is the first playable dragon besides Spyro in series history, and the only character from the series besides Spyro to be made a Skylander. There's no candidate more suitable to be Spyro's semi-clone.

While Cynder inherits almost all of her physical attacks from Spyro, her elemental powers are completely different; she attacks with electricity and shadow where Spyro uses fire and ice, giving those moves different properties. For example, her version of the charge attack incorporates shadow: she travels a set distance and is vulnerable at the end, but is intangible during the charge.

Another key difference is as follows: where Spyro represents the original trilogy while having a Skylanders alt form, Cynder represents Skylanders while having a Legend of Spyro alt form. As such, she has entirely different Super attacks based on summoning Skylanders.

 

[Megadoomer]

YES, My Nomination Made It. I am very happy for it.

By the way, you do remember that Rivet was a costume idea for Ratchet's 4 alternatives right?

Wouldn't making her a clone/echo mess up the swappable alts for Ratchet?

I figure that nobody (not even me) knew that we'd be doing a clone category when costumes were submitted, but it's easy enough to find alternatives for costumes. (Ratchet has at least one from the original PSAS that wasn't in that list, so if Rivet gets included, the PSAS1 costume could go in the place of the Rivet costume)

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I'm going more with a semi-clone and nominate Nier from Nier replicant. He would be a semi clone of 2B.



The square and triangle moves would be the same, using his regular sword for the square moves and his two hand sword for the triangle moves. For the circle moves, he would be using magic with the Grimoire Weiss book.

His super moves would be different too, although for now I don't have that much idea but maybe Kainé could appear in some way.

 

[CheeseAnton]

Clone Nomination: Makoto Yuuki

(Persona 3; Clone of Yu Narukami)​

Makoto Yuuki, also known as the Persona 3 Protagonist, is the protagonist of Persona 3. A reason to include a persona 3 rep over a game from the other games in the series is because Persona 3 was the game that laid the groundwork for the other Persona games to come, so I think it should be recognized for that. Also, both the PlayStation system and the game (and the boy's hair) are blue, so yeah that's cool.

Makoto would play a lot like Narukami, both specializing in katana. They also have the circle attacks summoning the same Personas for me wanting to squeeze Makoto in, and they have the Level 2 Super All-Out Attack (with cosmetic changes to include the Persona 3 cast).

Here's with the differences start, Using their lvl 99 respective Persona stats from PQ (with nothing else to go on) Makoto would have better magic and speed than Narukami, but would be easier to knock around and not as good with physical attacks compared to Narukami. While Triangle attacks are the Persona, both Izanagi and Orpheus are widely different resulting in different moves entirely. Since Makoto doesn't have Izanagi, the level 1 and 3 supers have to be changed.

Spoiler: Makoto's Moveset

Square Attacks: Katana Moves	Same as Narukami's
Triangle Attacks: Orpheus	Similar to Izanagi, but Orpheus uses the Fire move Agi instead of Zio, and Orpheus imbues Makoto with Fire.
Circle Attacks: Wild Card	Same as Narukami's
Level 1 Super:	TBD
Level 2 Super: All-Out Attack	Same as Narukami's (with asethetic changes to include the P3 Cast)
Level 3 Super: Messiah	Messiah uses Megidolaon, it's pretty pog

 

[Deleted member]

Ok for this one I decided to go with Lammy for parappa.

She will mostly use her guitar in turn for parappa skateboard. He punches and kicks will be more of her flailing around(as in her game, she a bit of a cluts).
Her music can play a totally different style towards parappa as well.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

EDIT: disregard this

 

[ivanlerma]

Coco Bandicoot from CRASH! Bandicoot

Some of you might know her, Coco is Crash's Brother who does help him out on his adventures sometimes. She would be able to carry some of crash's abilities such as the spin tornado. But if she doesn't use Aku-Aku then maybe she can use some other stuff maybe the jet from the water levels from crash 3.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Clone: The Slayer of Demons (Demon's Souls)

The Slayer of Demons is the main character from Demon's Souls, the game that started the genre and metafranchise that would be known as Souls. Since it was owned by Sony, they published a remake in 2020 by Bluepoint, making it the first official Souls game to be made by a studio other than From Software.

From what I understand, Bloodborne is much faster paced than Demon's Souls and its combat is more reliant on dodging, therefore the Slayer would be a slower and more defensive version of the Hunter. The Slayer would also have a shield, with many of their attacks with it having a defensive property. As we don't have a defined moveset for the Hunter I'm kind of in the dark regarding what would have to be changed, so I'm just estimating what the other differences between the two would be. BB has pistols as a big element, but DS lacks them, so the Slayer would replace gun attacks with stuff like shield bashes, arrows and dual wielding. Also, none of BB's trick weapons; the Slayer wields normal swords, which means his attacks are in a medium between the Hunter's one-handed fast but weak attacks and their two-handed, slow and strong strikes. The Slayer's melee reach is longer to compensate for the loss in versatility (and the pistol).

It's kind of unorthodox to have a clone from what's technically a different IP, but I consider all the Souls games to be part on one big happy franchise. This way we can also represent another first-party IP, and one that got a big flashy new title recently at that. And the Slayer is more representative of the classic, Dark Ages setting and style that is so defining for From Soft's games.

(Disclaimer: I haven't played Bloodborne, Demon's Souls, or any Souls game for that matter, so while I think I've done my research properly, I have no idea if this would actually make sense. I imagine it would, but I'd like to get feedback from someone who's played the two games)

 

[Megadoomer]

Here are the nominations for the clone fighters:

-Rivet (Ratchet and Clank) ( Megadoomer )
-Jill Valentine (Resident Evil) ( Jomosensual )
-Raven (Gravity Rush) ( osby )
-Cynder (Skylanders/Spyro) ( Yokta )
-Nier (Nier) ( CapitaineCrash )
-Makoto Yuuki (Persona 3) ( CheeseAnton )
-Lammy (PaRappa the Rapper/Um Jammer Lammy) (@VGamer01)
-Coco Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot) ( ivanlerma )
-The Slayer of Demons (Demon Souls) ( GoodGrief741 )

If someone more familiar with the original Nier, Demon Souls, or Bloodborne could clarify how well Nier and the main character of Demon Souls would work as clones or semi-clones of 2B and the Hunter from Bloodborne, that would be great. I haven't gotten the chance to play Nier Replicant (new games are expensive in Canada and I've had some unforeseen expenses recently, so I need to spread my purchases out), and I tend to avoid games like Dark Souls, Demon Souls, or Bloodborne that seem hard/unfair for the sake of being hard/unfair.

Vote for your top three, though you can only put your own nomination in third. The top four will be included, though there are only two spots left for third party characters, so that might change things. (how I handle it will probably depend on how the results turn out - if three third party characters are the overwhelming favourites, for example, I might bump it up to including three third party clones since there's not a huge difference between 13 and 14 third party characters)

My votes are for:
1. Raven
2. Coco
3. Rivet

---

I'm not sure whether or not we should discuss the story mode in much detail (I'm worried that it would turn into people arguing over whose PlayStation All Stars fanfic is better), but at the very least, I figure that we can come up with a premise.

-What's bringing these worlds together? (is this a forced merger of worlds, like in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom or Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite, or is this working under the assumption that these worlds somehow coexist, like Subspace Emissary in Smash Bros. Brawl or Street Fighter X Tekken?)

-What characters should the story focus on? (focus is going to bounce between several characters if we're following Mortal Kombat's example, but not every character is going to have a viewpoint chapter - I can't see there being a chapter dedicated to playing as Pyramid Head, for example)

-What are they trying to do? (this ties into the previous question, but presumably, some characters are going to have a goal, as opposed to them just wandering around aimlessly and getting into fights)

At least, I think we can come up with something like that (or any other questions that might need answered). We don't need to get into extensive details, plot twists, or what have you, but even just establishing what the problem is in Story Mode and which characters are trying to fix it seems like a start.

Also, for Story Mode, I think we can incorporate Yokta 's fusion boss idea (the stages are about two games being merged together, so the same could be said for bosses), though I want to get an idea of what people think the best way to handle it is.

How should fusion bosses be handled?

Vote Now! [Two characters being fused together into one] [Two characters from different games working together] [A mix of both options, depending on the fight]

www.strawpoll.me

 

[ivanlerma]

My Choices for the category.

1. Jill Valentine(She is the most iconic Resident Evil Character who could've been here besides Leon)
2. Um Jammy Lammy(I always thought of her as a character next in line for a potential sequel)
3. Coco Bandicoot(Cortex could've been better, but coco does fit the mold of being a clone)

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

1. Coco Bandicoot
2. Raven
3. Rivet

 

[osby]

Clone votes:

1. Makoto Yuuki (not a super logical choice but P3 is my favorite in the series so I'll take it)
2. Lammy (she has her own game, I think she's earned her spot)
3. Raven (you know why)

Also, surprised nobody suggested any inFamous characters. I know that Fetch and Delsin and Evil Cole have their own powers but they share a lot of technical similarities with Cole.

- As for the story mode, I'd say keeping it simple and leaning on the fact that this is a fighting game would work well. Let's say someone (the final boss) somehow brought everyone together because they wanted to see who is the strongest among all of them and take their power for themselves.

- Focus characters would be popular Sony characters who come from distinct worlds: Kratos, Nathan and Chloe, Kat, Ratchet & Clank, Sackboy, and Aloy. They would team up with characters who come from similar worlds but can contrast them. For example, Ratchet and Clank would initially come across to other space-based characters like Abe and Radec, while Kat would meet with magical fighters such as Spyro and Fat Princess. Everyone would come together slowly with the exception of Toro and Astrobot as those two would mostly skip between different locations and provide some comic relief and references to different games.

- More self-centered characters and villains would try and somehow take advantage of the merged worlds. Heroic characters, on the other hand, would try and fix things or help others. In the end, they would unite against the final boss. As a side note, I'd enjoy it if characters would still be able to travel between the worlds at the end.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

My vote for the clone:
1. Raven
2. Lammy
3. Jill Valentine

For the story, I think something simple like what Osby have said would work well (a big boss merged every game world to stole their powers). I think the "main" characters of our story should be Kratos, Sackboy, Nathan Drake, Parappa, Aloy and Ratchet & Clank. I think separating the characters in small sub-groups is a good idea (similar to Brawl who had for example DIddy kong, Fox Falco as a group, Lucas, Ness, Pokémon trainer as another group, Marth Meta knight, Ike etc.). Also like in Brawl, some characters could start as vilain, but become allies later in the story (like Radec, Sweet tooth, Pyramid head and Dr. Nefarious). Maybe Cole could have a small sub-plot where he start vilain but his Karma change by doing some good things and he become Good Cole.

Also I want to emphasize that the Playstation worlds are merged. Characters should explore different locations of the different franchise represented, not just generic environements like Brawl did.

 

[tonygameman]

1. Rivet
2. Coco Bandicoot
3. Raven

 

[cashregister9]

1. Coco
2. Rivet
3. Raven

 

[Deleted member]

1. Raven
2. Makoto
3. Lammy

Edit:nvm

 

[GoodGrief741]

For this vote I avoided Activision, Capcom and Square Enix because they're already the third parties with most characters so I figured we should spread the love a bit.

1. Lammy
2. Raven
3. Rivet

As for the Story Mode:

- I think just having everyone inhabiting the same world to begin with would make for a more interesting story and avoid the common tropes of crossover stories.

- As for the world, it could be like a patchwork of the different settings in a fantasy world, with sci-fi characters like Ratchet being explicitly from other planets and modern characters like Drake being implied to have just arrived to a land that's foreign to them with no "home setting". If that's too jarring I'd understand just doing portals and alternate universes, but if so I'd take a page from Mortal Kombat and make the multiverse an established part of the setting rather than it being a novelty for everyone.

- I agree with everyone else that there should be several groups of characters the players switches between, and with multiple routes we could theoretically give a chapter to everyone, but yeah, it doesn't make sense to give the likes of Pyramid Head or Heihachi a chapter. I do think it would be cool if some characters who are traditionally good guys were antagonists, unplayable for most of the story and working as recurring bosses. Characters like Kratos, the Hunter and even Dante strike me as candidates that could be tricked by the villain into antagonizing the others - and then we could have, for example, a bad ending in which Kratos defeats all the good guys. Obviously the chosen one and the true hero of the story would be Knack, because he, much like the game's cast, is assembled from multiple pieces from disparate origins - it's poetic, really.

- It really depends on who the villain is (is there one? Several? Is it a fighter, a boss, or an OC?) and what their plan is, but I imagine what the good guys would be doing is figuring out/trying to stop the villain's plan from different angles. For example, Lara and Nathan are both vying for an ancient relic for a few chapters but when they find it they are thwarted by an agent of the villain, who wants it for their plot; meanwhile, another character is looking for Dr. Nefarious, who is rumored to be working for/with the villain, and that search leads them to a monster-infested city where they ally with Leon, cross paths with Joel & Ellie and are pursued by the Hunter. Like in Subspace the groups would keep meeting with each other, though they wouldn't always see eye to eye, but at least in one route they would all put their differences aside and come together to stop whatever the villain's plan is.

 

[Yokta]

1. Rivet
2. Raven
3. Cynder

As for the story mode, I'm very glad we're talking about the story mode, because I have ideas.

I believe that the Story Mode should revolve around an original antagonist. My reasoning for this is due to PlayStation's recent reputation for strong narrative driven games. A strong narrative requires a strong main character with a developed arc, but the nature of the setting prevents us from letting any of the playable characters develop in any permanent way. By building the story around the journey of its original villains, we can experience meaningful character interplay that affects the course of the story, making for a more engaging journey.

Spoiler: The story of Cross

Cross was once a weak, frail human from a quaint tribal village in a peaceful dimension. One day, they found themselves lost and alone in the woods, the victim of a cruel prank, where they discovered a small shard of purple crystal that glowed with latent power.
Upon touching this crystal, it was absorbed into their being, and they started hearing the voice that was trapped inside it. The spirit tempted Cross with promises of power, friendship and adventure, guiding them on a quest to recover the rest of the crystals.
Cross has vowed to use this power to protect the meek by subjugating the strong. Unfortunately, they seem to view the All-Stars as threats to their vision of peace. Most of them were defeated by a mere manifestation of his power and swiftly enslaved.
The remaining few must find a way to work together, amass enough power to fight back against Cross, and uncover the true purpose of their conquest.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

1. Coco
2. Rivet
3. Slayer of Demons

Love Lammy, but there's no way in hell-er, an island, she could be a clone.

 

[tonygameman]

Love Lammy, but there's no way in hell-er, an island, she could be a clone.

Have you heard about semi-clones? (besides, there was a old moveset on the dead forum, which I archived on a fan wiki).

 

[Yokta]

I just changed my vote. I think Coco would work better as another form of Crash instead of a clone.

The only times Coco has been playable in a way that wasn't functionally identical to Crash were in kart racers and Warped's jet ski levels, neither of which are noteworthy enough to cram into their fighting moveset. If we gave Coco her own slot, I fear it might be a situation similar to Smash's Peach/Daisy dilemma, where there's no meaningful distinction between them as fighters.

If you're fine with that, go ahead and vote for Coco. Just remember that you're voting for a fighter first, and a character second.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I just changed my vote. I think Coco would work better as another form of Crash instead of a clone.

The only times Coco has been playable in a way that wasn't functionally identical to Crash were in kart racers and Warped's jet ski levels, neither of which are noteworthy enough to cram into their fighting moveset. If we gave Coco her own slot, I fear it might be a situation similar to Smash's Peach/Daisy dilemma, where there's no meaningful distinction between them as fighters.

If you're fine with that, go ahead and vote for Coco. Just remember that you're voting for a fighter first, and a character second.

Coco's ground pound would likely have a smaller hitbox from Crash, and she could use her static crouch kick from WoC instead of Crash's sliding crouch kick.

 

[Yokta]

Coco's ground pound would likely have a smaller hitbox from Crash, and she could use her static crouch kick from WoC instead of Crash's sliding crouch kick.

I see where you're coming from, but you're describing what Coco's differences could be, whereas I'm considering what Coco's differences are. Or, rather, what they're not.

What is Coco in Crash NST and Crash 4? In gameplay situations that allow you to choose Crash or Coco, there's no difference in how they control, nor is there intended to be. Coco may slam the ground with her butt instead of her belly, but the physical properties of the attack are the same: same momentum, same hitbox, same wind-up and recovery time. A true representation of Crash and Coco in All-Stars, therefore, would have to preserve their mechanical sameness. In that case, why give Coco her own slot?

Perhaps it's fallacious to assume that a game where you can only play as Crash and Coco would preserve their similarities in a roster almost forty strong. Perhaps some of you may vote for Coco intending for her to be a perfect clone of Crash. Personally, I'm just not convinced she needs her own slot.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I see where you're coming from, but you're describing what Coco's differences could be, whereas I'm considering what Coco's differences are.

You are aware that we can create Coco's moveset ourselves right? If Wario Wario Wario or anyone can come up with moveset changes that feel appropriate to Coco there's no need to be that beholden to the source material.

 

[osby]

I see where you're coming from, but you're describing what Coco's differences could be, whereas I'm considering what Coco's differences are. Or, rather, what they're not.

What is Coco in Crash NST and Crash 4? In gameplay situations that allow you to choose Crash or Coco, there's no difference in how they control, nor is there intended to be. Coco may slam the ground with her butt instead of her belly, but the physical properties of the attack are the same: same momentum, same hitbox, same wind-up and recovery time. A true representation of Crash and Coco in All-Stars, therefore, would have to preserve their mechanical sameness. In that case, why give Coco her own slot?

Perhaps it's fallacious to assume that a game where you can only play as Crash and Coco would preserve their similarities in a roster almost forty strong. Perhaps some of you may vote for Coco intending for her to be a perfect clone of Crash. Personally, I'm just not convinced she needs her own slot.

I mean, why not make her a separate character? I think Activision getting three characters right off the bat is a little too much but it's not like giving people an option to choose between their favorite is a bad thing. If she gets enough votes, that would mean people like the character and her similarities would mean she'd be easier to develop compared to other characters.

 

[Megadoomer]

It doesn't seem like the vote change makes a major difference in the results; Coco was pretty popular this time around.

Nier: 0
Cynder: 1
The Slayer of Demons: 1
Jill Valentine: 4
Makoto Yuuki: 5
Lammy: 10
Rivet: 13
Coco: 14
Raven: 18

As a result, Raven, Coco, Rivet, and Lammy will be added as clones, finishing off the game's base roster!

I'll update the picture of the roster and figure out how to sort these different opinions/concepts for story mode later; I've got a busy morning ahead of me, but I want to get us moved on to the next topic, at the very least. (I'll post a Strawpoll once I've had time to look over the concepts)

(EDIT: Not sure if a Strawpoll is needed; even just discussing it could work)

Now that the roster's finalized, one big thing from the original game that we haven't touched on much is rival battles. Two of them (2B vs. Knack, and Cole MacGrath vs. Jesse Faden) are already set, but that leaves eighteen left to be figured out. I'm not sure what the best way to handle this is (since the last two will likely wind up feeling somewhat random), but I figure that going down the list two at a time (skipping characters if they've been assigned before) seems like a good start.

To start things off, we'll be deciding on rivalries for Kratos and Sackboy. Much like the nominations for rivalries that we did before (from this post onward), it would help if you gave a reason why your choice would be a rival for Kratos/Sackboy. You can pick any character in the game's line-up aside from 2B, Knack, Cole, and Jesse.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

For Kratos I want to the rivalry to be against Joel and Ellie
General connections: Both are critically acclaimed games from Sony, both are very violent, both Kratos and Joel lost their daughter.
In All stars: Kratos will meet Joel and Ellie. Joel will ask Kratos to not hurt the girl, because she's the cure of the illness in The last of us. Kratos will misunderstand this and think that the illness that Joel is talking about is Atreus sickness. Kratos will try to take Ellie, but Joel won't leave her so this will start the fight.

 

[Yokta]

I'm just going to paste in my pre-made list of rivalries.

Spoiler: Rivals

-Kratos vs PaRappa
-Sackboy vs Crash Bandicoot
-Nathan Drake vs Lara Croft
(Assuming that newcomers are revealed in sets of rivals, the six characters from the reveal trailer must be paired up into rivals among themselves.)

-2B vs Knack
-Cole MacGrath vs Jesse Faden

-Astro vs Toro Inoue
(The most recent general Playstation mascot versus one of the earliest.)
-Ellen Reid vs Yu Narukami
(JRPG protagonists who fight with monster-esque support characters)
-Pyramid Head vs Sweet Tooth
(Two monsters that once were men, yet conduct themselves with vastly different tones)
-Leon Kennedy vs Sir Daniel Fortesque
(Resident Evil characters fight zombies, and Sir Daniel is technically one of those)
-Radec vs Abe
(Radec is morally and aesthetically similar to a Slig.)
-Aloy vs Dr. Nefarious
(A primitive human who hunts machines versus a machine which has renounced its primitive humanity)
-Jin Sakai vs The Hunter
(An honourable samurai versus a stoic monster hunter who fights with heavy melee)
-Ratchet and Clank vs Spyro the Dragon
(Insomniac's first two kingmakers, long separated, now together at last)
-Sly Cooper vs Kat
(Similar noir aesthetics between Sly's Paris and Hekseville, and I'm assuming stray cats and raccoons don't get along)
-Dante vs Heihachi Mishima
(A demon hunter versus a businessman who dabbles in devil genes, I believe?)

-Jak and Daxter vs. Chloe Frazer
-Dart Feld vs. Spike
-Fat Princess vs. Joel and Ellie
(The leftovers, assigned based on the most inappropriate pairings possible)

-Rivet vs Coco Bandicoot
-Raven vs Lammy
(Clones were added after all other rivalries were established, so they can only rival each other)

And, just for fun, here's each character's rival from the Smash Ultimate base roster
-Kratos vs Pit
-Sackboy vs Villager
-Nathan Drake vs Pikachu
-PaRappa vs Inkling
-Crash Bandicoot vs Mario
-Lara Croft vs Yoshi
-Dart Feld vs Shulk
-The Hunter vs Bowser
-Kat vs Bayonetta
-Astro vs R.O.B.
-Aloy vs Link
-Jin Sakai vs Marth
-Ratchet and Clank vs Fox
-Leon Kennedy vs Zelda
-Pyramid Head vs Luigi
-Fat Princess vs King Dedede
-Sly Cooper vs Wario
-Sir Daniel Fortesque vs Diddy Kong
-Spike vs Donkey Kong
-Jak and Daxter vs Samus
-Dante vs Rosalina & Luma
-Heihachi Mishima vs Ganondorf
-Toro Inoue vs Kirby
-Sweet Tooth vs Captain Falcon
-Spyro the Dragon vs Ridley
-Ellen Reid vs Pokémon Trainer
-Abe vs Lucas
-2B vs Meta Knight
-Knack vs Olimar
-Cole MacGrath vs Lucario
-Jesse Faden vs Ness
-Chloe Frazer vs Palutena
-Dr. Nefarious vs Bowser Jr.
-Yu Narukami vs Dark Pit
-Colonel Radec vs Robin
-Joel and Ellie vs Ice Climbers
-Rivet vs Wolf
-Coco vs Isabelle
-Raven vs Mr. Game and Watch
-Lammy vs Jigglypuff

From this list, my nominations are for Kratos vs Parappa and Sackboy vs Crash Bandicoot. Not the most obvious matchups, but my self-imposed rule to have rival pairs revealed together means that I could only match the launch trailer characters with other characters from that trailer.