SmashBoards Creates: PlayStation All Stars 2

[Champion of Hyrule]

1. Rayman
2. Sora
3. Filbo

I remember the Thorgi's Arcade video about a hypothetical Playstation All-Stars 2, and in it he says he wouldn't want to include a character from The Last of Us because of the game's dark tone and because it was apparently not created to be a "fun game." I definitely agree with that so I won't vote for a Last of Us character.

 

[ivanlerma]

1. Rayman
2. Sora
3. Filbo

I remember the Thorgi's Arcade video about a hypothetical Playstation All-Stars 2, and in it he says he wouldn't want to include a character from The Last of Us because of the game's dark tone and because it was apparently not created to be a "fun game." I definitely agree with that so I won't vote for a Last of Us character.

That's definitely something understandable and pretty agreeable aswell.

 

[cashregister9]

1. Rayman
2. Sora
3. Filbo

I remember the Thorgi's Arcade video about a hypothetical Playstation All-Stars 2, and in it he says he wouldn't want to include a character from The Last of Us because of the game's dark tone and because it was apparently not created to be a "fun game." I definitely agree with that so I won't vote for a Last of Us character.

I feel like if that was such a big issue they wouldn't have put The Last Of Us costumes in Little big Planet

and that not fun quote has been misconstrued so many times.

Even then we already have Silent Hill and those games can get really dark and depressing.

 

[CheeseAnton]

1. Rayman
2. Survivor
3. Filbo

 

[Yokta]

The reason I personally didn't vote for a character from the Last of Us is because I don't believe they can do anything that isn't already represented by characters such as Nathan Drake or Lara Croft, especially if her moveset is mostly derived from her new trilogy.

With all due respect, when the people nominating Joel and Ellie don't have any arguments in favour of their inclusion besides "their game was very popular," maybe the concept deserves a second thought.

How would a Last of Us character work in the setting of All-Stars? What would make their kit unique enough to justify their inclusion? If nobody has an answer to these questions, we probably shouldn't vote for them.

 

[cashregister9]

The reason I personally didn't vote for a character from the Last of Us is because I don't believe they can do anything that isn't already represented by characters such as Nathan Drake or Lara Croft, especially if her moveset is mostly derived from her new trilogy.

With all due respect, when the people nominating Joel and Ellie don't have any arguments in favour of their inclusion besides "their game was very popular," maybe the concept deserves a second thought.

How would a Last of Us character work in the setting of All-Stars? What would make their kit unique enough to justify their inclusion? If nobody has an answer to these questions, we probably shouldn't vote for them.

Joel And Ellie could potentially be a Tag Team or Duo character which we don't have. Their gunplay would be more grounded and less acrobatic than Nathan Drake or Lara Croft

If we want to get really crazy we could incorporate Crafting and inventory managment.

 

[Yokta]

I also question the legality of allowing a nomination for a category of characters when we're meant to vote for singular characters. I understand the concern over not wanting to split the votes for a TLOU rep, but I think it's even less fair to everyone else that the Joel supporters and the Ellie supporters can pool their votes to guarantee one of them gets in without even committing to who that should be.

If they made Joel and Ellie alternate forms of the same character, Olimar/Alph style, I would be fine with them being nominated that way. However, allowing a nomination for "an undetermined character from this one game, to be decided on after they win the votes," would open the door to more vague, non-committal multi-nominations in the future. Except this is the last slot, so I guess it doesn't matter.

 

[GoodGrief741]

1. Rayman
2. Sora
3. Filbo

I remember the Thorgi's Arcade video about a hypothetical Playstation All-Stars 2, and in it he says he wouldn't want to include a character from The Last of Us because of the game's dark tone and because it was apparently not created to be a "fun game." I definitely agree with that so I won't vote for a Last of Us character.

I respect your position, and I agree that TLoU's gameplay direction of making your actions feel wrong and regrettable is an integral part of the game's artistic merit and identity.

My point of view is that The Last of Us is still a brand, and one of the biggest PlayStation has at that. As cashregister9 pointed out, it has already been used as such in titles like LittleBigPlanet. To my knowledge there hasn't been any statement by the devs bemoaning anything like this and I can't imagine them not wanting another of their creations represented in a massive crossover such as this.

Personally I think that Pyramid Head's addition pretty much nullifies any concern of the sort given his creator has gone on the record to say he'd rather not see him used outside of Silent Hill 2 as it would remove the context and symbolism surrounding him. If we could still add him then The Last of Us is nothing in comparison.

The reason I personally didn't vote for a character from the Last of Us is because I don't believe they can do anything that isn't already represented by characters such as Nathan Drake or Lara Croft, especially if her moveset is mostly derived from her new trilogy.

With all due respect, when the people nominating Joel and Ellie don't have any arguments in favour of their inclusion besides "their game was very popular," maybe the concept deserves a second thought.

How would a Last of Us character work in the setting of All-Stars? What would make their kit unique enough to justify their inclusion? If nobody has an answer to these questions, we probably shouldn't vote for them.

It doesn't sound very respectful of you to immediately assume that people voted for a character with zero thought put into it, especially when several people have mentioned the gameplay potential a TLoU fighter offered.

The Last of Us has very different gameplay from the titles you mentioned (honestly you'd have been closer with Leon given RE4's influence on TLoU). The gunplay is slower, with more realistic aiming speed, recoil, and reload time, all of which would affect gameplay style. Drake uses ancient magical artifacts, as would presumably Lara (I don't know if we've already settled on a moveset for her), none of which is possible for a TLoU character. TLoU has stuff like molotovs, nail grenades, traps, shivs all of which would be unique to it. Like cashregister9 mentioned, crafting is an integral part of the TLoU experience and might be part of the moveset. And finally there's always, y'know, the zombies that could be part of the moveset.

If it were up to me personally, I'd have a TLoU character be a duo/tag team character, which considerably expands what you can do moveset-wise and would make a character even more unique. Plus it makes sense given that you are usually playing alongside a partner and cooperation and the relationships between characters is such a strong theme for the games. But that depends on the implementation in particular, which would be decided after.

However, what would be wrong if people just wanted a character from the series because it's popular? If a lot of people like a game and like its characters it's only natural that they want to play as them in a crossover. It's also realistic too, given that Sony would likely want to capitalize on their popular IP in a game they're making. We always define the moveset after the character is selected and it's not a rule that people have to put moveset potential in their submissions.

Plus, weren't you complaining the other day that Radec would be getting in over a bunch of more popular and deserving characters? The popularity argument sure suited you back then.

I also question the legality of allowing a nomination for a category of characters when we're meant to vote for singular characters. I understand the concern over not wanting to split the votes for a TLOU rep, but I think it's even less fair to everyone else that the Joel supporters and the Ellie supporters can pool their votes to guarantee one of them gets in without even committing to who that should be.

If they made Joel and Ellie alternate forms of the same character, Olimar/Alph style, I would be fine with them being nominated that way. However, allowing a nomination for "an undetermined character from this one game, to be decided on after they win the votes," would open the door to more vague, non-committal multi-nominations in the future. Except this is the last slot, so I guess it doesn't matter.

Your last two submissions were "nobody" and "a strawpoll", I don't think you get to complain about this.

 

[Yokta]

Your last two submissions were "nobody" and "a strawpoll", I don't think you get to complain about this.

Yes I do, and I'll explain why. The first submission was less than a single character, so nobody was forced to vote for that if they wanted someone else. And the second submission was reduced to a single character by the time nominations were locked in.

Imagine if, instead of holding that poll immediately, I simply made "Jonesy or Filbo" my nomination and promised to hold the poll after they won. I'd be guaranteed more votes than usual, because people who wanted Jonesy but not Filbo and people who wanted Filbo but not Jonesy would be forced to vote for the same nomination. Even if that wasn't enough to win the voting, you still wouldn't allow me to make a nomination like that because it's objectively unfair to anyone making a single character nomination.

So why is it okay to nominate "a character from The Last of Us" without specifying who or what that even is? Especially considering how every main character in those games have their fair share of fans and detractors.

I'm glad you agree that Joel and Ellie could share the slot, but that's not what was nominated. We have allowed a nomination so nebulous that it attracts supporters of solo Joel, solo Ellie, tag-team Joel/Ellie, duo Joel/Ellie, solo Abby, and easily a dozen more variants.

If you're worried about multiple TLOU nominations splitting the vote, come to a consensus on what a TLOU rep should be BEFORE nominating them. This isn't something you should be allowed to decide after sweeping the vote.

 

[ivanlerma]

Personally I think that Pyramid Head's addition pretty much nullifies any concern of the sort given his creator has gone on the record to say he'd rather not see him used outside of Silent Hill 2 as it would remove the context and symbolism surrounding him. If we could still add him then The Last of Us is nothing in comparison.

Umm, Dead by Daylight would like to have a word with you.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Yes I do, and I'll explain why. The first submission was less than a single character, so nobody was forced to nominate that if they wanted someone else. And the second submission was reduced to a single character by the time nominations were locked in.

Imagine if, instead of holding that poll immediately, I simply made "Jonesy or Filbo" my nomination and promised to hold the poll after they won. I'd be guaranteed more votes than usual, because people who wanted Jonesy but not Filbo and people who wanted Filbo but not Jonesy would be forced to vote for the same nomination. Even if that wasn't enough to win the voting, you still wouldn't allow me to make a nomination like that because it's objectively unfair to anyone making a single character nomination.

So why is it okay to nominate "a character from The Last of Us" without specifying who or what that even is? Especially considering how every main character in those games have their fair share of fans and detractors.

I'm glad you agree that Joel and Ellie could share the slot, but that's not what was nominated. We have allowed a nomination so nebulous that it attracts supporters of solo Joel, solo Ellie, tag-team Joel/Ellie, duo Joel/Ellie, solo Abby, and easily a dozen more variants.

If you're worried about multiple TLOU nominations splitting the vote, come to a consensus on what a TLOU rep should be BEFORE nominating them. This isn't something you should be allowed to decide after sweeping the vote.

You're comparing apples to oranges, considering that Filbo and Jonesy have nothing to do with each other in terms of ownership, genre, abilities, or... anything really, whereas The Last of Us is a single franchise and any character from it would satisfy a similar audience and have a similar moveset. Several people who are fans of the series expressed approval for the idea and the opinion that they don't mind who represents the series as long as it gets a fighter; that's a far cry from just throwing out two random characters and asking fans of both to vote for you.

You should also keep in mind that there's a disadvantage in doing something like this. Everyone who's voting for TLoU is gambling that if it wins, the fighter chosen will be one to their liking - that's not guaranteed. If everyone here is that confident that they'll be pleased with the character(s) we pick in the end, I think that lends credence to the argument that the options are exchangeable enough to be fused.

(Also, submitting "nobody" for a prompt means that fans of every single character in existence save for the four characters submitted would prefer to vote for that outcome, which is much more vague and wide-reaching than the TLoU thing. And the fact that it didn't win kinda disproves your point about how doing that would inflate votes)

 

[ivanlerma]

I said nothing in this, nothing.

Edit: Sorry for this post, i was expressing my feelings on voting a last of us playable character might be a struggle for choice decision if it wins and that we should disqualify it for now.

i deleted the old message which had a better explanation for my opinions, though feel free to disagree

 

[osby]

So, I guess we're just gonna do this in every voting until Yokta gets a character he wants.

 

[Yokta]

You're comparing apples to oranges, considering that Filbo and Jonesy have nothing to do with each other in terms of ownership, genre, abilities, or... anything really, whereas The Last of Us is a single franchise and any character from it would satisfy a similar audience and have a similar moveset. Several people who are fans of the series expressed approval for the idea and the opinion that they don't mind who represents the series as long as it gets a fighter; that's a far cry from just throwing out two random characters and asking fans of both to vote for you.

You should also keep in mind that there's a disadvantage in doing something like this. Everyone who's voting for TLoU is gambling that if it wins, the fighter chosen will be one to their liking - that's not guaranteed. If everyone here is that confident that they'll be pleased with the character(s) we pick in the end, I think that lends credence to the argument that the options are exchangeable enough to be fused.

(Also, submitting "nobody" for a prompt means that fans of every single character in existence save for the four characters submitted would prefer to vote for that outcome, which is much more vague and wide-reaching than the TLoU thing. And the fact that it didn't win kinda disproves your point about how doing that would inflate votes)

You claim that fans of The Last of Us would be willing to vote for a representative no matter who it was, and yet you cannot decide who that representative could be until you're confident that nobody else can take the last place on the roster? That's the impression that I get, at any rate.

I am disputing this nomination for the same reason I refused to nominate a villain: It's unfair and unjustified, and if I care enough about a forum game to check in on it every day, I care enough about it to want it done right.

I am not arguing that The Last of Us shouldn't be represented in the roster. Heck, you've argued convincingly that there should be. But if we're going to give one of those characters a slot in the roster, they should get in the same way as everyone else: through a specific nomination and a clear, concise vote.

I would not be offended, osby , if a TLOU character was nominated and then won. The problem is that the nomination was not for a TLOU character, but for all of them at once. I don't care how popular or deserving a series is, that should not be allowed.

For the record, if this nomination is upheld, I want Abby to be one of the options for the representative.

 

[GoodGrief741]

You claim that fans of The Last of Us would be willing to vote for a representative no matter who it was, and yet you cannot decide who that representative could be until you're confident that nobody else can take the last place on the roster? That's the impression that I get, at any rate.

The thing is the decision of who the character is is very much dependent on how they play and what their implementation would be like.

For example, you mentioned Joel and Ellie being alts of each other, and that's a possibility! But if someone wants the moveset to be a duo fighter, that wouldn't make sense anymore as Ellie doesn't have a kid companion that would function like kid Ellie in Joel's moveset. On the other hand, if the moveset is a solo fighter, then that would change how people feel about picking the character, since it would make them more interchangeable and therefore make the choice about different aspects such as personality.

Since it's a moveset question as much as it is a purely character-based one I feel that it's fair to have an in-between discussion between "Do we add this?" and "How does this play?" It's not unprecedented, given Kratos was included before we voted on what incarnation he would be (which are two versions with vastly different moveset potential), and Dante was voted before we chose between three versions of him (two of which, again, entailed different arsenals of weapons, and one is a different character altogether).

For the record, if this nomination is upheld, I want Abby to be one of the options for the representative.

I don't see why she wouldn't be? If you want her to be an option you will most likely be able to nominate her if TLoU gets the spot.

I figure this has gone on long enough, so I don't think I'll reply to you anymore. This is going in circles at this point, and I believe what I've argued so far holds water. If you're seriously just a concerned internet denizen that's worried about the principles of this forum game, I hope my points have done enough to allay your concerns. But if you're trying to bully people into changing the rules of the game every time they don't play in your favor... Well, let's hope not.

 

[Yokta]

The thing is the decision of who the character is is very much dependent on how they play and what their implementation would be like.

For example, you mentioned Joel and Ellie being alts of each other, and that's a possibility! But if someone wants the moveset to be a duo fighter, that wouldn't make sense anymore as Ellie doesn't have a kid companion that would function like kid Ellie in Joel's moveset. On the other hand, if the moveset is a solo fighter, then that would change how people feel about picking the character, since it would make them more interchangeable and therefore make the choice about different aspects such as personality.

Since it's a moveset question as much as it is a purely character-based one I feel that it's fair to have an in-between discussion between "Do we add this?" and "How does this play?" It's not unprecedented, given Kratos was included before we voted on what incarnation he would be (which are two versions with vastly different moveset potential), and Dante was voted before we chose between three versions of him (two of which, again, entailed different arsenals of weapons, and one is a different character altogether).

Kratos and Dante are at best the exact opposite of this situation. We inducted the charcters first, then nominated the moveset. What this Last of Us nomination is doing is asking us to nominate a nebulous idea of a moveset for a survivor that we have yet to decide on. Heck, it's not even doing that because we could just as easily nominate one of its super-infected.

Props to you for bowing out of this pointless discussion, but neither of your closing assumptions are correct. My concerns are far from allayed, and I'm not arguing in favor of changing the rules: I want the rules to be clarified and upheld so there can be no doubt as to the legitimacy of the results. But you clearly don't care about that, else you'd have thought twice about using the word "bully."

 

[Yokta]

Okay, so I went back and checked the votes for the Horror game representative, and it turns out that Ellie and Joel were indeed robbed. If we combined their votes and discarded the second vote of everyone who voted for both of them, they would have received the most votes. If we had accepted this category nomination back then, we would have a Last of Us representative instead of Pyramid Head. And seeing as Pyramid Head was my nomination, I'm prepared to offer a compromise.

If the Last of Us rep wins this round of nominations, I would be willing to retroactively revoke my Pyramid Head nomination to free up a slot for them. This would leave the final slot open for someone else. We could give it to the runner up of this vote, or have another wildcard round.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

So if I’m understanding this correctly, people are splitting votes between the two last of Us reps and, now, they aren’t winning, correct? Forgive me if I’m wrong at this bit I just jumped in and saw some arguments being had. Honestly, I think it’s stupid that there is an argument going on at all. I don’t see any rigging of votes going on and, from my perspective, the main issue is that The Last of Us isn’t winning which, to me, goes against the whole reason why the thread structure is set up in the first place. If the voting goes one way, then the results should be accepted unless there were some sort of tampering, excessive vote switching, or bribery of any kind. If The Last of Us was such a huge deal, then the thread should have voted on incorporating the series for a newcomer position during the thread earlier and then included one knowing that the inclusion was locked. Additionally, in the Infinite thread, we occasionally would combine if two or more submissions were from the same series. We never did this with a newcomer as we never had that issue but we did for bosses and assist trophies before if I recall. The voting period probably should of made it clear that Joel/Ellie would of been a combined vote for a TLoU rep and then voting, down by the game owner, performed after to decide if they should be split or dual. Hell, you could even have a voting period to see if both Joel and Ellie could be included as two representatives from TLoU. Regardless, I think the results should be accepted as there wasn’t any tampering done with them. If Megadoomer wants to reset the voting to reflect a change for tLoU, that would be fine, too. The argument that “tLoU should get the last spot so we should ignore the results of the vote” is ridiculous though.

I do have a question though:

Will there be DLC? Infinite isn’t even close to our last character but you guys are. Is DLC on the table? Why not pop the roof off with a potentially explosive character?

 

[ivanlerma]

Okay, so I went back and checked the votes for the Horror game representative, and it turns out that Ellie and Joel were indeed robbed. If we combined their votes and discarded the second vote of everyone who voted for both of them, they would have received the most votes. If we had accepted this category nomination back then, we would have a Last of Us representative instead of Pyramid Head. And seeing as Pyramid Head was my nomination, I'm prepared to offer a compromise.

If the Last of Us rep wins this round of nominations, I would be willing to retroactively revoke my Pyramid Head nomination to free up a slot for them. This would leave the final slot open for someone else. We could give it to the runner up of this vote, or have another wildcard round.

Wait, Stop! don't change your vote, you might risk removing the pyramid head. that wouldn't be nice.

 

[Megadoomer]

Okay, so I went back and checked the votes for the Horror game representative, and it turns out that Ellie and Joel were indeed robbed. If we combined their votes and discarded the second vote of everyone who voted for both of them, they would have received the most votes. If we had accepted this category nomination back then, we would have a Last of Us representative instead of Pyramid Head. And seeing as Pyramid Head was my nomination, I'm prepared to offer a compromise.

If the Last of Us rep wins this round of nominations, I would be willing to retroactively revoke my Pyramid Head nomination to free up a slot for them. This would leave the final slot open for someone else. We could give it to the runner up of this vote, or have another wildcard round.

I don't think it's a great idea for me to retroactively nullify a lot of votes (both for characters and a stage) that took place about three weeks ago, especially when people voted for Pyramid Head because they thought that Silent Hill should have content in a game like this.

So if I’m understanding this correctly, people are splitting votes between the two last of Us reps and, now, they aren’t winning, correct? Forgive me if I’m wrong at this bit I just jumped in and saw some arguments being had. Honestly, I think it’s stupid that there is an argument going on at all. I don’t see any rigging of votes going on and, from my perspective, the main issue is that The Last of Us isn’t winning which, to me, goes against the whole reason why the thread structure is set up in the first place. If the voting goes one way, then the results should be accepted unless there were some sort of tampering, excessive vote switching, or bribery of any kind. If The Last of Us was such a huge deal, then the thread should have voted on incorporating the series for a newcomer position during the thread earlier and then included one knowing that the inclusion was locked. Additionally, in the Infinite thread, we occasionally would combine if two or more submissions were from the same series. We never did this with a newcomer as we never had that issue but we did for bosses and assist trophies before if I recall. The voting period probably should of made it clear that Joel/Ellie would of been a combined vote for a TLoU rep and then voting, down by the game owner, performed after to decide if they should be split or dual. Hell, you could even have a voting period to see if both Joel and Ellie could be included as two representatives from TLoU. Regardless, I think the results should be accepted as there wasn’t any tampering done with them. If Megadoomer wants to reset the voting to reflect a change for tLoU, that would be fine, too. The argument that “tLoU should get the last spot so we should ignore the results of the vote” is ridiculous though.

I do have a question though:

Will there be DLC? Infinite isn’t even close to our last character but you guys are. Is DLC on the table? Why not pop the roof off with a potentially explosive character?

Basically, about three weeks ago, we had a vote on characters from horror games to include. Leon and Pyramid Head won, though both Joel and Ellie were nominated separately and they both did fairly well. Joel and Ellie were nominated again in this latest category. A few different people had different ideas on how a character from that game could be handled (Joel on his own; Ellie on her own; Joel and Ellie as a tag team (not sure if it would be in the style of the Ice Climbers, or if the one that isn't playable would help for some attacks, or something else); Abby came up afterwards).

Not wanting to split the vote again and leave out a popular pick/franchise (in the horror vote, a lot of people voted for Joel or Ellie, but it was usually one or the other rather than both), I agreed that it would be best to combine the two nominations into a general one for the series and, if they won (which was hardly a guarantee, given the other candidates), we'd decide whether to make Joel or Ellie (or Abby?) playable and whether it would be a solo character or a tag team. From what I recall, there aren't many cases where several characters from the same series were nominated for a category.

Currently, these are the results:
-Wolf: 2
-The Survivors: 3
-Pomeranian: 5
-Kulche: 7
-The Sinner: 8
-Sora: 9
-Rayman: 11
-Filbo: 12
-a character from the Last of Us: 15

I do plan to have DLC nominations at some point, though I'm not sure when. (it's hard for me to know how to space this sort of thing out or what will catch people's interest)

 

[Yokta]

So if I’m understanding this correctly, people are splitting votes between the two last of Us reps and, now, they aren’t winning, correct? Forgive me if I’m wrong at this bit I just jumped in and saw some arguments being had. Honestly, I think it’s stupid that there is an argument going on at all. I don’t see any rigging of votes going on and, from my perspective, the main issue is that The Last of Us isn’t winning which, to me, goes against the whole reason why the thread structure is set up in the first place. If the voting goes one way, then the results should be accepted unless there were some sort of tampering, excessive vote switching, or bribery of any kind. If The Last of Us was such a huge deal, then the thread should have voted on incorporating the series for a newcomer position during the thread earlier and then included one knowing that the inclusion was locked. Additionally, in the Infinite thread, we occasionally would combine if two or more submissions were from the same series. We never did this with a newcomer as we never had that issue but we did for bosses and assist trophies before if I recall. The voting period probably should of made it clear that Joel/Ellie would of been a combined vote for a TLoU rep and then voting, down by the game owner, performed after to decide if they should be split or dual. Hell, you could even have a voting period to see if both Joel and Ellie could be included as two representatives from TLoU. Regardless, I think the results should be accepted as there wasn’t any tampering done with them. If Megadoomer wants to reset the voting to reflect a change for tLoU, that would be fine, too. The argument that “tLoU should get the last spot so we should ignore the results of the vote” is ridiculous though.

I do have a question though:

Will there be DLC? Infinite isn’t even close to our last character but you guys are. Is DLC on the table? Why not pop the roof off with a potentially explosive character?

That's not quite what's happening. Joel and Ellie were nominated for the Horror character slots a couple of weeks ago, but as separate choices. They didn't receive enough votes to secure a slot, but it turns out that Ellie would have had enough votes if the Joel voters had gone with her instead.
Now, for the last slot, a few users have decided that their nomination is going to cover more than one potential character from The Last of Us, and they're only going to decide who that is once the nomination wins the vote.
On the one hand, they probably see this as a necessary course of action to avoid a repeat of the Horror nomination fiasco. I, on the other hand, am arguing that this is basically cheating. The TLOU fans have essentially rigged the system to ensure that one of their characters is guaranteed to win, without having to commit to who that character is or how they would play. They should clearly define who or what they are nominating, like everyone else has had to. If they can't figure out who represents The Last of Us, that's their problem.

Wait, Stop! don't change your vote, you might risk removing the pyramid head. that wouldn't be nice.

It's a logical consequence of my compromise. If we accept that merging TLOU nominations is okay, then it should have been done in the Horror block. If it had, then Pyramid Head would not have received enough votes to be included. That's why I propose replacing Pyramid Head with the TLOU rep, although I'm not against nominating Pyramid Head for the final slot instead.

I don't think it's a great idea for me to retroactively nullify a lot of votes (both for characters and a stage) that took place about three weeks ago, especially when people voted for Pyramid Head because they thought that Silent Hill should have content in a game like this.

Currently, these are the results:
-Wolf: 2
-The Survivors: 3
-Pomeranian: 5
-Kulche: 7
-The Sinner: 8
-Sora: 9
-Rayman: 11
-Filbo: 12
-a character from the Last of Us: 15

There were more people who wanted Last of Us content back then than even Resident Evil supporters. Another point in favour of my compromise.
Also, I don't mean to undermine my credibility, but oh my god Filbo's the runner-up again?!

 

[ivanlerma]

I don't think it's a great idea for me to retroactively nullify a lot of votes (both for characters and a stage) that took place about three weeks ago, especially when people voted for Pyramid Head because they thought that Silent Hill should have content in a game like this.


Basically, about three weeks ago, we had a vote on characters from horror games to include. Leon and Pyramid Head won, though both Joel and Ellie were nominated separately and they both did fairly well. Joel and Ellie were nominated again in this latest category. A few different people had different ideas on how a character from that game could be handled (Joel on his own; Ellie on her own; Joel and Ellie as a tag team (not sure if it would be in the style of the Ice Climbers, or if the one that isn't playable would help for some attacks, or something else); Abby came up afterwards).

Not wanting to split the vote again and leave out a popular pick/franchise (in the horror vote, a lot of people voted for Joel or Ellie, but it was usually one or the other rather than both), I agreed that it would be best to combine the two nominations into a general one for the series and, if they won (which was hardly a guarantee, given the other candidates), we'd decide whether to make Joel or Ellie (or Abby?) playable and whether it would be a solo character or a tag team. From what I recall, there aren't many cases where several characters from the same series were nominated for a category.

Currently, these are the results:
-Wolf: 2
-The Survivors: 3
-Pomeranian: 5
-Kulche: 7
-The Sinner: 8
-Sora: 9
-Rayman: 11
-Filbo: 12
-a character from the Last of Us: 15

I do plan to have DLC nominations at some point, though I'm not sure when. (it's hard for me to know how to space this sort of thing out or what will catch people's interest)

Did i miss something because from what i counted Filbo and The TLOU Character were tied.

 

[ivanlerma]

That's not quite what's happening. Joel and Ellie were nominated for the Horror character slots a couple of weeks ago, but as separate choices. They didn't receive enough votes to secure a slot, but it turns out that Ellie would have had enough votes if the Joel voters had gone with her instead.
Now, for the last slot, a few users have decided that their nomination is going to cover more than one potential character from The Last of Us, and they're only going to decide who that is once the nomination wins the vote.
On the one hand, they probably see this as a necessary course of action to avoid a repeat of the Horror nomination fiasco. I, on the other hand, am arguing that this is basically cheating. The TLOU fans have essentially rigged the system to ensure that one of their characters is guaranteed to win, without having to commit to who that character is or how they would play. They should clearly define who or what they are nominating, like everyone else has had to. If they can't figure out who represents The Last of Us, that's their problem.

It's a logical consequence of my compromise. If we accept that merging TLOU nominations is okay, then it should have been done in the Horror block. If it had, then Pyramid Head would not have received enough votes to be included. That's why I propose replacing Pyramid Head with the TLOU rep, although I'm not against nominating Pyramid Head for the final slot instead.

There were more people who wanted Last of Us content back then than even Resident Evil supporters. Another point in favour of my compromise.
Also, I don't mean to undermine my credibility, but oh my god Filbo's the runner-up again?!

Replacing someone already in the roster in pointless, plus it'd ruin a chance for a very interesting character for some folks to enjoy playing(even if this is just a project)

 

[Yokta]

Hang on a moment... Who says we have to stick to 36 characters?
Why don't we just expand the roster to 38 characters and include not just a Last of Us rep, but Filbo and Rayman too?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

So if I’m understanding it correctly, it’s not about a tLoU not getting a spot but it’s who it would be and how they would play; either separate or a dual based character then, correct?

 

[ivanlerma]

So if I’m understanding it correctly, it’s not about a tLoU not getting a spot but it’s who it would be and how they would play; either separate or a dual based character then, correct?

Eh, for the most part.

 

[Yokta]

So if I’m understanding it correctly, it’s not about a tLoU not getting a spot but it’s who it would be and how they would play; either separate or a dual based character then, correct?

There are a lot more possibilities covered by the nomination, which technically encompasses any character from the series in any configuration. Most of the divide is centred around Joel and Ellie, though. I'm the one who suggested Abby, though, mostly just to watch the transphobic Part II anti-stans throw a fit.

 

[Megadoomer]

Hang on a moment... Who says we have to stick to 36 characters?
Why don't we just expand the roster to 38 characters and include not just a Last of Us rep, but Filbo and Rayman too?

I figure it's best to stick to a limit; otherwise, if we could expand it to 38, why not 40? Plus, 36 is one and a half times what was in the original game, and it's similar to the jump from Melee to Brawl (26-->39 for Smash; 24-->36 for this). I figured that it seemed like a reasonable increase, though we're probably going to go beyond that down the line (I figure we'll discuss DLC at some point, and I've been toying with the idea of having a nomination for clone/semi-clone characters so that Chloe Frazer isn't the only one, since they wouldn't take up the hypothetical time/resources that a unique character would).

Did i miss something because from what i counted Filbo and The TLOU Character were tied.

Maybe you missed VGamer's vote? I double-checked, and Filbo has 12 while a Last of Us character has 15.

So if I’m understanding it correctly, it’s not about a tLoU not getting a spot but it’s who it would be and how they would play; either separate or a dual based character then, correct?

I think so - I was planning on having a separate poll if that option won.

Speaking of which, I think I'm going to post those now:

Which character from the Last of Us should be included?

Vote Now! [Joel] [Ellie] [A Joel and Ellie team (see other poll)] [Abby]

www.strawpoll.me

This one's specifically for the team option: https://www.strawpoll.me/45275993 I figure that you wouldn't be able to switch depending on the costume because unlike the Ice Climbers, Joel and Ellie have different proportions.

I'm not sure whether to do a Strawpoll or a ranked voting here; it seems like there aren't many potential options, but I'm not familiar with The Last of Us. I don't know if people want both of them to be on-screen at once, or incorporate one of them into the other's moveset, or how it would work; I'd be willing to discuss it if people would prefer that over a poll. (the past couple of days have been rough for me, so I'm not exactly focused right now)

We'll also vote on the stage nominations; seeing as we already have a stage based on the Last of Us in the game, I'm thinking we'll include the top three from these results.

-The TV World (Persona 4/Gex) ( ivanlerma )
-Invasion (Killzone/Ape Escape) ( osby )
-Amusement Park (Nier Automata/MediEvil) ( Megadoomer )
-Temen-Ni-Gru (Devil May Cry/Fortnite) ( cashregister9 )
-The Prison (Escape Plan/Flower) ( CapitaineCrash )
-Ribbon (Vib Ribbon/Buzz!) ( GoodGrief741 )
-The Island (The Witness/Hohokum) ( Yokta )
-GPU Jungle (Astro's Playroom/The Invizimals) (@VGamer01)
-Kirameki Private High School (Tokimeki Memorial/Persona) ( CheeseAnton )

This will be the same as most votes; vote for your top three, and you can only put your own nomination in third.

My votes are:
1. The Prison
2. Ribbon
3. Amusement Park

 

[osby]

I'm voting for,

1. Amusement Park
2. The Prison
3. Invasion

 

[GoodGrief741]

Jeez, why do you guys have to make it so hard to pick just three stages? These candidates are great.

1. Amusement Park
2. The Prison
3. GPU Jungle

I'm not sure whether to do a Strawpoll or a ranked voting here; it seems like there aren't many potential options, but I'm not familiar with The Last of Us. I don't know if people want both of them to be on-screen at once, or incorporate one of them into the other's moveset, or how it would work; I'd be willing to discuss it if people would prefer that over a poll.

I think it might be best to have a round of discussion where everyone has a chance to propose how they envision the character, before voting. At least I think unexpected versions could emerge.

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

1. TV World
2. Amusement Park
3. GPU Jungle

 

[Megadoomer]

I think it might be best to have a round of discussion where everyone has a chance to propose how they envision the character, before voting. At least I think unexpected versions could emerge.

Sure; maybe I'll get rid of the polls, then. (EDIT: I'll leave the polls up, though once we get more ideas or once it gets later in the day, I'll do something to see what people want between the various choices that have been brought up)

I mentioned a few posts up that I thought about adding clones/semi-clones as an extra bonus - maybe one of them could be a clone/semi-clone of the other, with Ellie being faster and Joel hitting harder/having longer range with melee attacks? (I've barely played the first Last of Us game and I don't have a PS4, so I don't know how accurate that would be; I just thought I'd bring it up as an option)

 

[CheeseAnton]

Votes:

1. TV World
2. Amusement Park
3. The Prison

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sure; maybe I'll get rid of the polls, then.

I mentioned a few posts up that I thought about adding clones/semi-clones as an extra bonus - maybe one of them could be a clone/semi-clone of the other, with Ellie being faster and Joel hitting harder/having longer range with melee attacks? (I've barely played the first Last of Us game and I don't have a PS4, so I don't know how accurate that would be; I just thought I'd bring it up as an option)

That wouldn't be inaccurate, adult Ellie generally moves and attacks much quicker that Joel but with diminished damage to compensate. She also always has a knife on her (other characters have to craft them and they break) which makes her more reliable in stealth sections and against zombies, though I don't know how that would be implemented. They could work as semiclones of each other for sure.

I guess I might as well pitch my version: I always envisioned Joel & Ellie playing together as a duo character. They wouldn't be a tag-team, meaning there'd be no switching between a "leader" character (mainly because I don't know how that'd fit in PSAS' control scheme); instead it would function similarly to the Ice Climbers, with Ellie closely following Joel. Moveset-wise though they'd split the inputs between them, meaning that skilled players would be able to combo Joel attacks with Ellie attacks; I feel like this would be a good translation of the relationship between the two and how they must learn to trust each other and work together. In practice, this would make them kind of a technical character, trading off speed and mobility for the possibility to trap opponents into combos or to cover multiple flanks at once.

I always pictured this being Joel and young Ellie from the first game, as they're differently sized and therefore would differ and cover each other's weaknesses. The downside to this would be no adult Ellie (dammit Ellie why couldn't you have a kid sidekick?) and therefore schews the representation towards the first game. I guess a good compromise would be to have adult Ellie and old Joel be the duo instead, since they're still different enough that they could do different things within one moveset. But I'd love to hear what everyone thinks of this.

 

[ivanlerma]

My Stage Choices
1. Invasion(I Love the music that changes in the stage)
2. Amusement Park(Looks Fun and The Music Potential is great to listen to)
3. TV World(I had always thought about this and loved listening to it, I really hope this one gets more votes, especially given a stage for Narukami would be beneficial)

 

[Deleted member]

My votes are
1. Ribbion
2. Invasion
3. GPU Jungle
Also while looking/skimming at the thread and thinking about it the last few days Megadoomer , I wonder if it's ok if we think/push up the roster to 40 mostly for the semi clone characters(like you said about Chloe, I think a few more characters like her wouldn't really be that harmful). However, like pretty much everything in this tread, it should come to a vote on how many more we should include(if any at all).

 

[CapitaineCrash]

For the stage I vote:
1. Amusement park
2. Ribbon
3. TV world

For the last of us characters I voted for Ellie alone. In my view, the duo aspect isn't really necessary. If Kratos don't have Atreus with him I don't personally see why Ellie would really need Joel (or the other way around). And I think Ellie is the most important because she's the second protagonist of the first game and protagonist of the DLC left behind and part 2.

 

[Megadoomer]

Also while looking/skimming at the thread and thinking about it the last few days Megadoomer , I wonder if it's ok if we think/push up the roster to 40 mostly for the semi clone characters(like you said about Chloe, I think a few more characters like her wouldn't really be that harmful). However, like pretty much everything in this tread, it should come to a vote on how many more we should include(if any at all).

I was originally planning on having the clone thing to be a surprise haha. (it's the main reason why I hadn't changed the total in the second post) I was thinking of having either two or four, depending on how many characters were nominated; I wasn't sure how much interest there would be since clones weren't really a popular topic in Smash until they were re-branded as echo fighters, and my PlayStation knowledge is somewhat lacking so I wasn't sure how many options would be out there.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I’m just throwing my hat into the Joel/Ellie ring but just because there’s a new game out doesn’t mean you need to use that for the basis of a rep. Ryu and Ken aren’t based of their most recent versions in Smash and, as we saw in the first PSASBR, Dante proved that the more recent iteration isn’t the best choice. If a dual Joel/Ellie character makes them more unique than someone like Lara or Nathan; why not choose a representation from the game that started it all? I think that’s the way to go. Include a character that reps the original game while also creating an unique character in the roster.

 

[Megadoomer]

Since both Joel and Ellie (rather than just one of them) seems to be the popular choice here (the option for both of them as a team has 80% of the votes), I'll put up a poll with the choices that have been suggested and see how people want to handle it.

How should Joel and Ellie be handled?

Vote Now! [A team, sort of like the Ice Climbers (one button has Ellie attack, one has Joel attack, the third is specials)]

www.strawpoll.me