Smash World Forum's Smash4 Ideal Roster (Current topic: Super Mario)

[Gene]

I wasn't trying to use porn as an argument, I agree it's a poor argument and there are plenty of good arguments against her. But her popularity is because of her sex appeal and the thought that she can bring something to the table with Krystal using her staff. That agruement has been proven wrong by GoldenYuiitusin and others plenty of times because she can easily become a clone and play like the other space furries. People overexaggerate her importance too much, and being Fox's love interest does not help her importance or her inclusion as a new SF character. Neither does telepathy either because it would be useless in a fighting game, also telepathy =/= psychic powers. It doesn't equal a counter move either. I would like to hear from a Krystal supporter as to why Krystal deserves to be in Smash 4. Or even likable for that matter. There must be something she's done or said in the Starfox games that was important or made her an instant favorite for the Krystal fans.


And Shortie what you said about popularity is popularity is bull****. By that logic Waluigi and Dunsparce confirmed for Smash 4. And what about K. Rool and Ridley? Why haven't they been playable characters yet, I mean popularity is popularity right? Let's also throw in other popular Nintendo characters regardless if they're not the most wanted character for Smash 4. Looks like every character with a fan base is on equal terms for being playable now...

 

[Oasis_S]

Huh what space dragons suddenly I'm interested. Ridley will definitely happen 100% no doubt about. There we go I contributed.

 

[BKupa666]

Samus/ZSS
Ridley

Fox
Falco
Wolf

I do believe Wolf will be one of the lower priority veterans, but that he'll stick around. The rest are all obvious enough.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Metroid:
Samus/Zero Suit Samus
RIDLEY!!!!

Starfox:
Fox
Falco
Wolf

 

[TheKingOfTown]

Metroid:
Samus
ZSS
Ridley

Star Fox:
Fox
Falco
Wolf

 

[BluePikmin11]

Samus
ZSS
Ridley

Fox
Falco
Wolf
I wanna put Krystal, but no star fox game has happened yet.

 

[_R@bid_]

Samus
ZSS
Ridley

Fox
Falco
Wolf

 

[FalKoopa]

The Brawl team + Ridley.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

The Brawl team + Krystal + Ridley

We've seen 64 3DS, but unless we see something on Wii U, take the Krystal part out.

 

[Shorts]

We've seen 64 3DS, but unless we see something on Wii U, take the Krystal part out.

I feel like you people have this weird sense that only "retro" characters can be absent for more than like 5 years at a time. Krystal last showed up in a game seven years ago I believe. When's the last time Shiek showed up in a non-remake? Or Dixie Kong for that matter. Ness hasn't stared in a game in forever either. I think so long as the character stands out to Sakurai in some way, they'll be included. Which is why Dixie being potentially added to Brawl makes sense, otherwise, why would he chose to add her since god knows the time between DKC3's release and Brawl. I think the picking process has a lot less rules than most people here would like to believe.

 

[ChronoBound]

The Brawl team + Ridley.

This is what I think is the most likely scenario as well.

Metroid:
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Ridley

Star Fox:
Fox
Falco
Wolf

As for Dixie Kong, she made plenty of appearances after DCKC3. Her last appearance in a DK game was Donkey Kong Barrel Blast, which was released in 2007, and her last appearance in a game altogether was Mario Super Sluggers, which was released a few months after Brawl in 2008. Those were also K. Rool's last appearances in the DK and overall Mario universe respectively.

 

[Shorts]

I wasn't trying to use porn as an argument, I agree it's a poor argument and there are plenty of good arguments against her.

Okay, you just tried to use that as an argument against her, you know, when you said this:

I'm pretty sure Krystal's furry and porn popularity isn't something Sakurai will look into if he decides to include her for smash 4. Which is mostly why she has popularity.]

But her popularity is because of her sex appeal

Disagree, but there is no real way to dispute it. But, the fact is, it doesn't matter. People can like her for their own reasons. Doesn't change the fact that they like her.

and the thought that she can bring something to the table with Krystal using her staff. That agruement has been proven wrong by GoldenYuiitusin and others plenty of times because she can easily become a clone and play like the other space furries.

Wait so being a clone is something that will keep a character out of the game? Since when?

People overexaggerate her importance too much, and being Fox's love interest does not help her importance or her inclusion as a new SF character.

Krystal is, as important as Falco and Wolf. That's enough to get her in. I'm not going to sit here and try and say she's MORE important (Although I think she is more important than Falco to the general SF storyline due to Command and Adventures) because it just doesn't matter, she's important enough.

I would like to hear from a Krystal supporter as to why Krystal deserves to be in Smash 4.

and here you go:

http://smashboards.com/threads/smas...and-space-dragons.336340/page-8#post-15520354

And Shortie what you said about popularity is popularity is bull****. By that logic Waluigi and Dunsparce confirmed for Smash 4. And what about K. Rool and Ridley? Why haven't they been playable characters yet, I mean popularity is popularity right?

The way you worded this makes it sound like you believe that popularity is the sole reason for a character being included, which is false of course. Popularity IS popularity, regardless of the source or reasoning behind liking it. Waluigi IS popular. That doesn't inheritly make him a good choice for Smash. There are other factors.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I feel like you people have this weird sense that only "retro" characters can be absent for more than like 5 years at a time. Krystal last showed up in a game seven years ago I believe. When's the last time Shiek showed up in a non-remake? Or Dixie Kong for that matter. Ness hasn't stared in a game in forever either. I think so long as the character stands out to Sakurai in some way, they'll be included. Which is why Dixie being potentially added to Brawl makes sense, otherwise, why would he chose to add her since god knows the time between DKC3's release and Brawl. I think the picking process has a lot less rules than most people here would like to believe.

Shiek makes it into the games because she was relevant when she first appeared in Smash Bros, same for Ness. SSB64 was representing the SNES primarily, where Ness appeared, and SSBM was representing the N64 and GB primarily, which is where Shiek first appeared. Even then, there was plans to cut Ness as early as in Melee.

SSBB was representing the Gamecube and GBA primarily, which is why Fox, Falco and Wolf had their looks upgraded to the Assault looks, Mario got FLUDD, and part of why Olimar became a playable character (some exceptions were made like Samus not being updated to Prime looks). Krystal hasn't appeared since the Gamecube, and if we're following the same pattern as the previous games SSB4 is supposed to represent the Wii and (3)DS, which will probably get the Star Fox characters' looks updated to the Star Fox 64 3D looks, and how will Krystal fit into that?

Shiek and Ness are here today because they got into the game when they were still relevant, if we go by that logic Krystal has had her chance. Now this is of course not anything but speculation judging out from patterns, but those are things that can work against Krystal if Sakurai is strict about this sort of thing, and whether he is or not we have no idea.

Of course there's also factors that work in Krystal's favor, like popularity and Sakurai's love for the series, plus Sakurai has acknowledged that she has fighting potential. But it's worth remembering that Sakurai doesn't want to include as many newcomers as he's done in the past with this game, and I'm fairly certain Krystal isn't in his top 5 list. Star Fox already has its Luigi and Bowser, in theory the franchise is already well represented, especially considering the franchise's popularity and lack of attention from Nintendo as of recently. Adding the series' Peach would be nothing but a bonus to what we already have.

As I said, I don't really care either way if she gets in or not, I'm trying to look at this from an objective view, which is all I can since I'm completely neutral to Krystal. I feel that these points are the biggest counter arguments against her though, at least more valid points than "porn" is, you probably already know what works in her favor, so I'm not gonna try and teach you something you know.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Metroid:
Samus / Zero Suit Samus
Ridley
Anthony Higgs

StarFox:
Fox
Falco
Wolf

@ the post above: Sheik can still get cut however.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

@ the post above: Sheik can still get cut however.

Yeah, but she's still made it way past the game she was relevant in. Plus, I feel that the Ocarina of Time remake strengthens her chances.

As for Anthony Higgs, given Other M's poor reception and the fact that it shares console with Prime 3 I consider Dark Samus' chances much bigger than his. Plus, who in their right mind would ever call Anthony a Nintendo All-star?

 

[Gene]

Disagree, but there is no real way to dispute it. But, the fact is, it doesn't matter. People can like her for their own reasons. Doesn't change the fact that they like her.

Fair enough. We should probably just leave it at that and call it a day, or continue the debate in the Krystal thread. But I'll just be dancing in a countless circle in there again.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, but she's still made it way past the game she was relevant in. Plus, I feel that the Ocarina of Time remake strengthens her chances.

As for Anthony Higgs, given Other M's poor reception and the fact that it shares console with Prime 3 I consider Dark Samus' chances much bigger than his. Plus, who in their right mind would ever call Anthony a Nintendo All-star?

Dark Samus = Krystal. You've explained yourself about her / it in your last post.

Sheik is still a terrible character. At least with Ness you can argue he's the most iconic and well known character from the whole Mother series. With EarthBound at least being released in the US on the SNES. Sheik has only one role in Zelda ever, which is as a genderswapped Zelda impresonating a Sheikah warrior but she only teaches you songs and nothing else. Impa would make a much better fighter.

Anthony Higgs may not be exactly a Nintendo All Star, yet he's got the most to work with out of all possible Metroid newcomers not Ridley, whilst actually standing a chance.

 

[Frostwraith]

Sheik is still a terrible character. At least with Ness you can argue he's the most iconic and well known character from the whole Mother series. With EarthBound at least being released in the US on the SNES. Sheik has only one role in Zelda ever, which is as a genderswapped Zelda impresonating a Sheikah warrior but she only teaches you songs and nothing else.

This coming from the guy who mains Sheik in Melee? Talk about hypocritical.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Dark Samus = Krystal. You've explained yourself about her / it in your last post.

Sheik is still a terrible character. At least with Ness you can argue he's the most iconic and well known character from the whole Mother series. With EarthBound at least being released in the US on the SNES. Sheik has only one role in Zelda ever, which is as a genderswapped Zelda impresonating a Sheikah warrior but she only teaches you songs and nothing else. Impa would make a much better fighter.

Anthony Higgs may not be exactly a Nintendo All Star, yet he's got the most to work with out of all possible Metroid newcomers not Ridley, whilst actually standing a chance.

I never stated I thought Dark Samus had high chances, on the previous page I stated I thought her/its/whatever he is' chances were low. However, if Dark Samus' chances are low, Anthony's are miniscule. Anthony is not much more than a regular federation trooper who happens to be good friends with Samus, he doesn't have many special things other than his gun's abilities. Which is a thing that actually lowers his chances, the fact that his main weapon is a gun. Sakurai stated that they avoided giving Snake a gun on purpose, to avoid problems with ratings and stuff, but there were other ways of intergrating Snake. There's no other way of integrating Anthony, he doesn't shoot laser like Fox, Falco or Wolf, he shoots with bullets and iirc also has some kind of Ice Beam mechanic in the gun. He was not more than a side character anyways, his popularity is very minimal, there are chances that Sakurai doesn't even know who he is. Even then, there's not much to work with him and his moveset compared to Dark Samus who has Phazon at its disposal and tons of abilities, Anthony only has a gun. On top of that, both appeared on the Wii, and Dark Samus is much more iconic and had a much bigger role in it's series.

As for Sheik: Sheik was hyped up by the fanbase pre-Melee, Sheik made it in because she was actually wanted. Just see people's reactions to her in Melee's trailer at E3, people are going more nuts about her than either Bowser, Peach or Ice Climbers. Sheik might not have a big role in the games as a fighter, but fan demand makes it possible, and seeing how Sheik has a completely unique moveset who hasn't received poor reception like Mewtwo, I don't see why she'd be cut. Plus, the whole Sheik argument kind of shuts down your Anthony argument, Anthony was just a side character, difference is that Anthony doesn't have any hype surrounding him.

When discussing things like character's chances it's important to look at it objectively, just because you might want someone to get cut or want a character very much doesn't mean the chances are high at all. For example, I think it'd be quite cool with Wargreymon from Digimon, but he has nothing working in his favor except that Namco Bandai owns him. It might be cool, but that doesn't mean the chances are high. Also, just because a character has appeared in a recent game doesn't automatically give it a chance either, it can heighen a character who already had a chance's chances though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

This coming from the guy who mains Sheik in Melee? Talk about hypocritical.

Would've mained Mewtwo is he was viable. :/

Also, Anthony doesn't use real life guns. He uses Plasma Guns and Freeze Guns. He's totally fitting for Smash. And your Dark Samus bias is showing.

Mysterious Black Dude was hyped as **** back in the day.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Would've mained Mewtwo is he was viable. :/

Also, Anthony doesn't use real life guns. He uses Plasma Guns and Freeze Guns. He's totally fitting for Smash. And your Dark Samus bias is showing.

Mysterious Black Dude was hyped as **** back in the day.

Not biased towards Dark Samus at all, I'm not even a fan of the two games she was in, Prime 1 was good but that should have been it, always been more of a fan of the sidescrollers. I don't really care whether she comes in or not, the only character I actually want is Ridley, Brawl had the rest, therefore it's quite hard for me to actually have any bias towards any other characters, thus I can look realistic at things. If I was in favor of Dark Samus you'd think I'd have included her on my list on the previous page too, pay attention. If someone here is affected by bias, it's you. Not only does Dark Samus have more possibilites for a moveset than Anthony, or any federation member for that sake since they're all about the same, but she was also a lot more important to the storyline of the game she's present in.

And Mysterious Black Dude, aka "Remember me?" was a meme and not more than that, and only because it was so inappropriate to put such a quote from a new character into the trailer of a game. Hyped isn't the right word for that, and the meme didn't even garner that much attention that Sakurai would have caught wind of it. You're really blowing things out of proportions to your favor, when in reality Anthony's chance of getting into the game is so small, it nearly doesn't exist, it can even be argued that Adam has a bigger chance than him, and even then they're both under the foot of Ridley and Dark Samus, so unless Sakurai goes on a Metroid flip and we get 4 reps from Metroid, where as it's unlikely we'll even get 3 reps, I don't see it as a possibility.

Seems like I remember him to shoot bullets and not plasma, but I never bothered with Other M again after I finished it the first and last time, so my memory is sure to be lacking in that department, especially since I'd rather forget the game. Note that this isn't why I think Anthony doesn't stand a chance, because he doesn't only have to compete with other Metroid reps, but he has to compete with every other franchise too. Given that Sakurai has said we'll get less newcomers in this game than in Brawl, Anthony would have to be one out of maybe only 10 new characters. No way he would be able to stand against not only Ridley, but also K. Rool, Mega Man, Bowser Jr, heck he wouldn't even be able to stand up against Kamek. I don't even believe that Dark Samus has a chance to be 1 out of 10 new character, again neither do I care, but given that she is obviously the most likely candidate outside of Ridley that would put Anthony in the abyss.

Dreams and realism are two different things, in a discussion like this only one of them counts.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm 50/50 on Krystal getting in.

The main thing going for her is her popularity. She was massively popular (at least in the West) during pre-Brawl and she is still decently requested to this day, Sakurai has also noted her fighting abilities, indicating that he does know that Krystal has fighting abilities. Krystal's main issue is that Sakurai might not see her as worthy of an addition due to her being a mixed received character overall and for her to have any chance, Sakurai will have to look at her Western popularity.

But for right now, I expect just Brawl's cast for Star Fox.

As for Ridley, should be obvious.

 

[D3monicWolv3s]

Dark Samus = Krystal. You've explained yourself about her / it in your last post.

Sheik is still a terrible character. At least with Ness you can argue he's the most iconic and well known character from the whole Mother series. With EarthBound at least being released in the US on the SNES. Sheik has only one role in Zelda ever, which is as a genderswapped Zelda impresonating a Sheikah warrior but she only teaches you songs and nothing else. Impa would make a much better fighter.

Anthony Higgs may not be exactly a Nintendo All Star, yet he's got the most to work with out of all possible Metroid newcomers not Ridley, whilst actually standing a chance.

So basically your argument is....
Shiek has only one been in one zelda title so sheik isn't important.
Anthony Higgs has only been in one metroid title, he's important!

 

[Diddy Kong]

No. Am saying Zelda has a lot more to work with than Metroid in terms of playable characters, and Sheik is hugely irrelevant.

 

[FalKoopa]

Zelda is not being debated now. Keep that Impa propaganda out of here.

Spoiler

I find it rather funny that any post which criticizes Diddy gets a lot of likes.

 

[D3monicWolv3s]

No. Am saying Zelda has a lot more to work with than Metroid in terms of playable characters, and Sheik is hugely irrelevant.

It does, but shiek is from one of the best selling zelda games of all time. People know Shiek.

So metroid has less to work with, so throw in anyone that seems like they could work?
If Ridley doesn't make it, why throw in a one time character that will probably never be seen again?
It would look like they threw in a rep, just because.
Other series have more deserving characters to add, even a second retro characters should have priority over any metroid character that isn't Ridley.

 

[Shorts]

I wouldn't consider Dark Samus quite on the level of Krystal. But anyways, results are in.

Samus / ZSS 100%
Ridley 100%
Fox 100%
Falco 100%
Wolf 100%
Krystal 23%

We're now going to move on to F-Zero, and Earthbound

 

[FalKoopa]

The Brawl Team.


EDIT: I should clarify that I would very much like to see Porky and Samurai Goroh, but they seem unlikely at this point.

 

[D3monicWolv3s]

F-Zero
Captain Falcon

Earthbound
Ness
Lucas
Masked man (claus)

 

[Autumn ♫]

F-Zero
Captain Falcon
Samarai Goroh
Mother
Ness
Lucas

 

[kikaru]

Captain Falcon, Ness, and Lucas.

 

[Frostwraith]

Same as Brawl: Ness and Lucas for EarthBound (Mother) and Captain Falcon for F-Zero.

 

[Curious Villager]

F-Zero: Captain Falcon, (and I'm going to be bold here) Samurai Goroh.

Mother: Ness and Lucas.

 

[LaniusShrike]

F-Zero: Captain Falcon, (and I'm also going to be bold here) Samurai Goroh.

Mother: Ness and Lucas.

I'd like to see Porky, but I don't think it's going to happen. Earthbound might be more likely to lose characters in future installments than gain new ones, unfortunately.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Captain Falcon

Ness
Lucas
Ninten (I'm sticking with Ninten, even though many people don't agree)

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I feel like you people have this weird sense that only "retro" characters can be absent for more than like 5 years at a time. Krystal last showed up in a game seven years ago I believe. When's the last time Shiek showed up in a non-remake? Or Dixie Kong for that matter. Ness hasn't stared in a game in forever either. I think so long as the character stands out to Sakurai in some way, they'll be included. Which is why Dixie being potentially added to Brawl makes sense, otherwise, why would he chose to add her since god knows the time between DKC3's release and Brawl. I think the picking process has a lot less rules than most people here would like to believe.

That is true, but at the very same time, it's hard to see the series getting four re- Ah I'll shut it and save that for when I edit Probable Character Roster.

Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh

Ness
Lucas
Masked Man

There we go.

 

[N3ON]

Captain Falcon

Ness
Lucas

Not much to say here. I doubt cuts or additions. I'd like to see Claus and I'd be fine with another F-Zero character (presumably Goroh), but I don't see it. Maybe if F-Zero hadn't been sleeping for like 10 years.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

F-Zero:
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh

Mother:
Ness
Lucas

 

[Deleted member]

Ness
Lucas

Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh

More later.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Definitely sticking with the Brawl roster on this one. Claus and Porky both have potential, but I doubt their chances.

F-Zero:
Captain Falcon

Mother:
Ness
Lucas