Q&A Smash Ultimate "Mains Advice" Thread

DelugeTN

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Chrom's recovery issues are by no means limited to vertical gain, it's extremely exploitable and anytime he has to go low he's a free kill, in some MU's in particular (like Mario) Chrom just gets flexed on and it's.. really bad. He's still a viable high tier, he just has an extremely unfortunate recovery and it's not a viable suicide kill anymore unless you're up a stock.

Sheik has absolutely zero kill power at the moment and piss damage output, until she's buffed I wouldn't touch her outside of loyalty.

Toon Link is by far the weakest of the three Links. He's slower than Young Link, he has less range and far less kill power than adult Link, no remote bombs, no arrow gimmick (I REALLY wish they'd give him ice arrows), attack sounds that sound like rubber chicken noises and a slew of other problems including weird choices for move replacements over YL / AL. Young Link has more of a focus on rushing your opponent down and using your projectiles to rack up damage or work into combos or kill confirms, while Toon and AL's are more for zoning and space control. Both Toon and Young lack kill power, but the fat hitboxes on the Kokiri + his speed go a long way on YL and he has much better arrows. If you don't like AL but want a Link, Young is by far the best bet. I think YL could end up the best link if he got some buffed kill power on FAir and USmash.

Falco is great and I think a little slept on at the moment, but he has a lot of combo game that you'll have to learn and I'd say doing well with him is going to be dependent on MU knowledge and mechanical execution / precise timing. He's still good, but by far the weakest space animal in Ult.

Shulk is amazing and could get pushed into top tier as the meta develops and a galaxy brain player picks him up and takes him further than we could ever imagine, Shulk is by far the most technical sword character and he can use Monado to do some pretty disgusting stuff.

Sonic got taken down a peg from Sm4sh and can't time people out as well in this faster meta, but I don't know a whole lot about him.

Pac-Man is a solid character, low high-tier I'd say. He's come a long way since Sm4sh and if you can get comfortable with him I could see some explosive results.

Fox is extremely good, easily a top tier imo.

Wii-Fit is under-developed and always surprised me in my matches against her players, she's quite cool but I'm not sure how far a good player dedicated to her could TRULY take her so I'll avoid commenting too much. At least a mid-tier.

Incineroar's issues boil down to speed that's way worse than it should be, killing a lot of his follow up game.. and one of the worst recoveries in this game. With a few more buffs he could end up being the king of mid-tier with the right development, but I don't think we'll ever see him leave mid-tier. I do like him a lot though.

The Mii's are.. eh. The only one with any viability is swordfighter due to that low % confirm, and even then it doesn't do a whole lot for them imo. If they ever took a nerf, they'd be especially bad. Brawler is a low tier in the eyes of myself and many, and I'd say Gunner a low mid-tier who you can't really justify using over Samus imo.
 

KuroShin

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Hey, so i've been playing Smash for quite a while now, my first Smash game was Melee when i was way too young to understand it so i was just like: Oooh that dudes Sword has flames lol After that i played a bit of brawl with friends and Smash 4 was where i started getting more interested in getting better at the game. Towards the end of Sm4sh i started to get into it and when ultimate hit i was hooked right from the beginning, a new smash game! I wanna be good at it! I had a long way to go and still have. In smash 4 i loved ZSS in Ultimate not so much anymore.
Right now i'm looking for a real Main and secondaries.
I really enjoy playing Cloud, Lucina and Wolf. I find these 3 help me improve quite a lot in my overall skill. I love being more aggressive while playing.
Right now my best character by far is Lucina so i'm thinking about maining her in the future or even switch to marth once my spacing is better(and lucina gets nerfed ;) )
For Lucina/Marth i am looking for secoundaries, that help my bad matchups.
I've been looking into Inkling and i am very stoked playing Joker and i think i will play him a lot.
Would you consider Inkling and maybe wolf to be good secondaries for Lucina/Marth?
And my last question, if i really main Cloud what should my secondaries be?
 
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Naptec

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Recently, I found out that I had a pretty defensive playstyle (except against Olimar and Villager, I go over-agressive against them) but I don't like playing as turtle characters (it's just boring) and I also wants to do pretty good damage, who do you think is suited for me ?

P.S : I'm sticking to :ultmegaman: for now, but I'm not very sure of myself
 

~?~

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So i have been attempting to pick up Roy, but I've noticed that i struggle in match-ups with characters shorter than me especially Isabelle. my shorthop aerials swing just above their heads.

I had a match yesterday facing her on a battlefield layout stage and i was having an extremely difficult time approaching because she would just stand under the platforms on one side and cover the front with her Lloyd and fling projectiles/fishing pole me from there. and any time i could get near her i would just swing over her head. prior to ultimate i played Marth and had no trouble hitting the short folks with a short-hop Dair but unfortunately Roy cant even swing his Dair from a short-hop. Any advice here? i typically use the a+jump auto short-hop, can i swing lower if i manually short-hop?
It sounds as tho you are pressing the Jump Button and the Attack Button at the same time to perform the Auto-Shorthop Aerials. Roy actually has a pretty easy time dealing with shorties thanks to his disjoint reach and his forward swing. I recommend learning to shorthop with JUST the button on a consistent level in the training mode. After that, practice delaying your Forward Air and your Back Air, as they are your main tools for scooping up shorties off the ground. If you do it before or during the apex of the jump, you'll usually swing over their head, but if you throw out the attack as you are already falling, you'll typically hit them in the head (except for crouching characters who lay on their belly, like Snake or Zero Suit). Also try the footsies game, where you dash in and out with a fox trot to bait an attack, let it whiff miss, then punish it with a single dash forward into Jab attack, thus scooping up the said shortie and allowing you the standard neutral air into forward air follow up. I hope this helps.

Recently, I found out that I had a pretty defensive playstyle
Wolf and Link are both some of the best "Defensive" units in the game. Especially Wolf. They both also fulfill your wish for damage output with the added bonus of good killing power in their toolkit. Wolf is a little bit mindless so he gets boring to play after a while, and he doesnt really have to play neutral because his toolbox will carry your mistakes for you. So if you're trying to be a defensive player but want a higher level of complexity to your character, Link is probably a good option for you. He's a midrange character so you don't have to choose turtle at long distance or aggro at short distance, you can just switch between both as needed, making him a really solid neutral powerhouse, especially having the Bomb, being one of the best moves in the game easily. Just note that if you do choose Link, you're going to need to learn advanced bomb aerial setups with Z drop aerials into bomb-down throw into aerials bomb catches to reset the process. It's something you have to lab out in training before you really get better at using it in game, as it is hard to do consistently while in a competitive nailbiter. Hope this helps.
 
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Naptec

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Thanks for the answer, man. Gonna try Link for a few matches against the CPU (I already tested Wolf earlier, and I didn't liked him), because I'm one of those players without Online, but it's OK. Thanks again !
 

Plazma™

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Thanks to DelugeTN DelugeTN 's advice, I gave :ultcloud: a serious go, as well as re-trying :ultsamus: and :ultdarksamus: for their neutral capabilities. :ultcloud: is a really fun heavy hitter, but I just feel like I'm playing a faster version of :ultganondorf:, getting caught out on my heavier attacks. I know this is my fault, but I just don't know if he's really main material for me, as I've found his zoning capabilities lacking. This is no fault of :ultcloud:'s, that's just not his job. I've since given quite a few more characters a decent go (still needing to seriously attempt getting good with :ultmegaman:), trying to fit them into my more defensive (turtle-y) neutral playstyle. I've tried all 3 :ultlink::ultyounglink::ulttoonlink: (again thanks to DelugeTN DelugeTN ), liking :ultlink: the best. He feels very good throwing out projectiles for stage control or just mindgames (bomb), and his setups are fantastic. The only thing holding me back from getting good with him is just my lack of practice. I am still not 1000% certain I'll settle on him, but I feel much better with him than I have with any of the rest of the cast I've taken seriously.

I had a question though. Where do :ultbowser: and :ultrob: fall on the role categories? I feel very good with :ultrob:, only putting off maining him because I think he lacks some of the defensive capabilities :ultlink: has. I would like to know what the people who know what they're doing, are doing with :ultrob:. What's his role?
For some reason though, :ultbowser: feels absolutely fantastic to me, and I don't think he's really meant for my playstyle at all. Granted, I could adjust my playstyle given enough time, I just want to be sure what I'd be getting into with him. What is :ultbowser: for? Or more accurately, why is he in the game? What is his role?

EDIT: I still have that muscle memory for :ultsamus: and :ultdarksamus:, but I just can't do what they need me too. Or rather, I don't enjoy doing what is neccessary for the bounty hunter and her doppleganger.
 
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Xelrog

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What is :ultbowser: for? Or more accurately, why is he in the game? What is his role?
You're talking like this is a MOBA. Characters don't have "roles" to fill. They can do what they can do, and can't do what they can't.

Bowser is a fast super-heavy who suffers from the bad frame data and combo-ability of all heavies, but has a little bit of a combo game himself and obviously hits extremely hard. From what I've heard, general consensus is that he's one of, if not the, best heavy in the game, which is a far cry from his placement in previous Smash games. Abuse his Nair for good damage potential, use Fair and Bair/Ftilt and Utilt for some decent disjointment, and remember you have the option to attempt a suicide if you have a stock advantage and %'s aren't too disparate.

The main thing to worry about is his recovery, which is linear and pretty easy to punish.
 

Plazma™

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Xelrog Xelrog I suppose I was, whoops. Too many hero shooters.

I've noticed that his recovery is less than stellar, so staying onstage would definitely be a priority. Whereas with R.O.B. I'm honestly antsy to get the opponent offstage so I can fling em around. Out of all the heavies in the game, Bowser absolutely feels the most "natural" to me, like the quintessential heavy fighter.

Hm. Well I think I've caught myself in a love triangle here. I very much enjoy R.O.B., both on the ground and in the air (especially in the air), I love cold-cocking people with Bowser's sucker punches, and Link is just legit a fantastic character that does everything I need him to. I suppose this is the point where you guys can't help me choose anymore, as far as a main is concerned.
 

Xelrog

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Don't get me wrong, Bowser can be awesome off stage, so long as he's the aggressor. Fair and Bair are terrific for pursuit--you can even combo some Fairs together. He's only really in trouble if he's off the stage and the opponent isn't.

Of the three ROB definitely has the best combo game, and... probably the highest skill ceiling? If you enjoy him you could do a whole lot worse. Link and R.O.B. are both much more technical characters than Bowser. R.O.B.'s the combo guy, Link is the traps and positioning guy, and Bowser relies on prediction. If you're going to play a heavy well, you really have to be good at noticing and punishing your opponent's habits.
 

Plazma™

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Honestly, paying attention to my opponent's habits has been what's winning me games at all. Sure, being able to DI and dodge properly and get positioned to hurt them the most possible is absolutely necessary, but I don't win with that. I can play super well and still lose when my opponent gets a hard read or 10. I only win when I'm doing my best to be one step ahead. Maybe Bowser isn't such a bad idea, for now, to learn the art of reading my enemy.
 

DJ3DS

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had a question though. Where do :ultbowser: and :ultrob: fall on the role categories? I feel very good with :ultrob:, only putting off maining him because I think he lacks some of the defensive capabilities :ultlink: has. I would like to know what the people who know what they're doing, are doing with :ultrob:. What's his role?
Hey man. This discussion was a while back but I thought I'd try to weigh in on this from the perspective of someone who mains :ultrob:.

ROB is a character who is honestly pretty good at a lot of things. He's deceptively heavy, without the awful mobility that often comes with it. He can play a zoning game, but has surprisingly good frame data that allows him to actually box with the opponent quite well. He has fantastic distance on his recovery which makes him difficult to edgeguard whilst being very good at it himself. He has lots of cool setups, traps and item comboes that really afford you a ton of freedom in how you play.

The main thing ROB is bad at is resetting the game once he's been put in a bad spot. He's huge and relatively floaty, with no fast options covering below or behind him in the air. He can struggle to get off the ledge, and also to get out of smart shield pressure. This means that a lot of players will resort to a relatively slow, controlled pace of gameplay, using his two good projectiles to keep the opponent at bay to figure them out before going in for a potentially devastating combo or edgeguard.

The character has a relatively low skill floor - he's not too hard to pick up and play - but a decently high ceiling, with lots of item play and movement tech to incorporate.

If you're interested in more of the meat and bones, watch some of the guide videos by Luu343 on Youtube!
 

Vistra31

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The Mii's are.. eh. The only one with any viability is swordfighter due to that low % confirm, and even then it doesn't do a whole lot for them imo. If they ever took a nerf, they'd be especially bad. Brawler is a low tier in the eyes of myself and many, and I'd say Gunner a low mid-tier who you can't really justify using over Samus imo.
imo I tried Samus but I prefer Mii Gunner over her any day. Reflector is really good. Up-B 3 is like a better version of Pit's recovery so you can recover pretty safely. I think Samus is good with combos but without a reflector you're really investing in projectiles blocking shots and hoping they don't get reflected. Lower skill window for Mii's though so that's my take.
 

DelugeTN

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imo I tried Samus but I prefer Mii Gunner over her any day. Reflector is really good. Up-B 3 is like a better version of Pit's recovery so you can recover pretty safely. I think Samus is good with combos but without a reflector you're really investing in projectiles blocking shots and hoping they don't get reflected. Lower skill window for Mii's though so that's my take.
Mii Gunner is an entirely neutral-focused character who gets laughably little out of winning said neutral exchanges in the first place. Like Mii Brawler, they feel like an incomplete character only designed to do a single thing, Mii Gunner just happens to get more mileage out of their gimmick. The only Mii that's even close to a fully-functional fighter is Mii Swordfighter.

Mii Gunner can win neutral in a fair bit of MU's okay, and that's -it-. They don't have a single other viable thing about them, they're an extremely lazy character designed entirely around being alright in neutral, in a similar fashion to how Mii Brawler feels like 'baby's first combo character' with how they're designed too. I would recommend giving ALL of a Mii's a pass if you intend to get serious development and growth from your character(s). The Mii characters feel like customizable basic instances of a few archetypes and concepts in Smash, perhaps each with some individual elements they could teach newer players.. but as a complete package all of them can be pretty lacking.

If Mii Swordfighter EVER loses that confirm or it gets worse, he's pluging directly to mid tier, I promise. The only reason people use him over most other swordies is because you can build to 70% and get free kills off of a neutral B in like 60%+ of MU's. Though, I will say, they do feel like the closest thing to an actual character of the three and I do like their aerials, their range is just a bit too pitiful and they don't do nearly enough damage. Mii SF basically has to nickle and dime all of his damage before going for the gale to hero spin.
 
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So I just got Joker, and I've been struggling wether I should switch to him or keep my previous mains.

I used to main Roy. I like his aerials, his speed, but he has no range so I decided to try Joker, since he looked fast and also has a gun. (+Extra cool points for a gun.)

I also enjoy Link (normal Link) because I like sword characters and he has a really good bomb.

I love Jokers up B and Arsen is really cool and good, but I'm still reluctant to switch to him. His down air doesn't spike except with Arsen, and I guess I'm just not used to his playstyle. I'd really like to main or at least get good with Joker, since I spent money on him and everything, but I'm struggling who to stick with at this point.

Any help? My playstyle is very fast and very jabby, if that helps. I really do enjoy all 3 but I'd really like to stay with one, escpecially since they're similar and I'd like to secondary someone new. What do you think?
 
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I really do enjoy all 3 but I'd really like to stay with one, escpecially since they're similar and I'd like to secondary someone new. What do you think?
Objective answer: It's still too early to judge Joker in any capacity yet, so no one, myself included, will be able to give you a definitive answer.

Personal answer: Joker is a character designed around counters. Counters are historically not considered amazing moves, at least not when used excessively, which Joker requires by design. I think Joker is being blown out of proportion by bad players who don't know how to bait or read, and once people get used to him, much like K. Rool, opinions of him will plummet. I think he's a very easily exploited character by design.
 
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I'm having a bit of trouble finding the right main. I've considered myself a Puff and Bowser Jr. main for a while, but I just don't feel satisfied with the results I'm getting from both. My opponents figure out my aerial-based fighting style and work around it too easily it feels like. Is there anyone else that's really aerial based that I can hopefully pick up?
 
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Hmm...if you're getting figured out with your aerial style, it sounds to me that you might just need to mix up your playstyle tbh. There are other reasons to want to leave Puff, but this doesn't seem to be one if the character specific reasons.
If you're looking for an alternative air fighter you could try Yoshi
 
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I'm having a bit of trouble finding the right main. I've considered myself a Puff and Bowser Jr. main for a while, but I just don't feel satisfied with the results I'm getting from both. My opponents figure out my aerial-based fighting style and work around it too easily it feels like. Is there anyone else that's really aerial based that I can hopefully pick up?
With puff you can try to retreat better with fair or bair because of the insane horizontal air speed. Getting close is risky unless you get a rest/sing rest shield break. imo you need to also capitalize on opposing recoveries to get the mileage out. Maybe you should try Isabelle over puff or Pac-Man over Bowser Jr.
 

Jaro235

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I main :ultyoshi: and my secondary is :ultpalutena:, but I don’t if she is the best choice as a secondary for Yoshi. Does Palutena cover Yoshi’s weaknesses well? If not, what are some other good secondaries for Yoshi?
 
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