Q&A Smash Ultimate "Mains Advice" Thread

odt

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Did you try Doc Mario? Apart from "great recovery", he would fit quite well. Range might not be too impressive, but otherwise...
His movement is too slow for me and I don't feel comfortable edgeguarding and recovering with him. Thanks though!
Try Lucina. Easy to pick up and fulfills almost all your specifications.
Lucina is great and definitely the character I feel most comfortable with (so great pick!). I just feel she doesn't have much untapped potential and her game is slightly boring. Are there other characters that you could recommend?
 

Keeshu

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Why would you ever seriously play Doc when Mario exists?
I used to dismiss Doctor Mario until one of my friends brought him out when the going gets tough. He doesn't do quite as well with Mario because his playstyle benefits from Doctor Mario more than regular Mario. There's enough differences between the two characters to main one over the other.

With that said I personally do much better with regular Mario. He's one of the characters I can just pick up and do well with no previous practice with the character, and I was able to go even with or beat people around my skill level or better with Mario in Smash 4. Trying to use Doctor Mario however is a different story. However, that's probably because I never saw Doctor Mario mains before so I didn't know how to use him properly, so he just felt bad until I saw a friend play him very well. As opposed to seeing Mario mains absolutely everywhere.
 

Xelrog

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I am firmly of the belief that Doc offers nothing that Mario does not as the two currently stand. It might be worth trading off the combo power for the heavier hits, but it's not worth losing the ability to combo and having no recovery. If their recovery were comparable, they would both be viable in their own ways, but Doc just loses too much for what he gains.
 

Keeshu

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I am firmly of the belief that Doc offers nothing that Mario does not as the two currently stand. It might be worth trading off the combo power for the heavier hits, but it's not worth losing the ability to combo and having no recovery. If their recovery were comparable, they would both be viable in their own ways, but Doc just loses too much for what he gains.
If we were making a tier list I definitely would say that :ultdoc: Doctor Mario probably isn't as good as :ultmario: Mario. However we're talking about maining characters. You can't play :ultdoc:Doctor Mario like playing :ultmario:Mario because the things that :ultdoc:Doc goes for is different. It's like trying to play :ultpichu:Pichu like :ultpikachu:Pikachu. There are subtle differences that make them better/worse than each other but it's enough to completely change the playstyle and you'll be doing poorly if you try to play that character like the other one because that's not what the character was made to do. Now the point of saying all that is because some people will have troubles playing one character compared to the other, even if that character is supposedly better. So since I already mentioned the :ultdoc:Doctor Mario player I've played against regularly already, I figure I'll mention my own situation like that. A lot of people like to say :4link:Link and :4tlink:Toon Link are basically the same character. I learned Smash off of Link so I did very well with him in Smash 4 and he was very reliable, but :4tlink:Toon Link on the other hand is one of the worst character I get to play with. :4tlink:Toon Link's playstyle is just too vastly different compared to :4link: Link despite them sharing so many of the same moves, but :4tlink:Toon Link is much higher on the tier list in Smash 4 than Link.
 

Keeshu

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The thing is, everyone in your post except :ultdoc: doesn't have the worst recovery in the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AicN2sqjTXs A video that talks about the differences between the Doc and Mario and how they have different playstyles. The Doc isn't outright worse than Mario like he was in Smash 4. Still, I think it's far more important to have a character that fits your playstyle. This is the last I'll say on the subject because I feel like I'm starting to say the same things over and over.
 
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Doc has 2 things over regular Mario:

-Doc Tornado. This move got buffed in terms of knockback from 4 (where it was still good and getting early KOs when used offstage). It still has it's good priority as well.
-Forward aerial. This move is extremely powerful and can get KOs starting around 60%. Couple that with Pill popping foes in a favorable angle to follow up with it and you have a fearsome (and even scarier, consistent) kill option.

Again, Mario has a better recovery and FLUDD which can be niche. However, you don't want to say that Doc has nothing that Mario has already that's better.

Edit: I had a secondary Doc for awhile in Smash 4, and greatly enjoyed using him. I think Doc is a great choice for a main or secondary if someone enjoys his style
 
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Velshoor

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Hi, I need help to find a main in this game because it seems like I'm improving so slow for my indecision about it..
I start playing smash since brawl, with sheik. Then in smash 4 my main was toon Link but I can't choose here.. there are too many interesting characters.. my first choice was Pokemon trainer because it's like to main 3 different characters lol but actually I enjoy only Ivysaur and a little bit Squirtle..
My ideal character is very mobile and with fun air combos.. my thoughts were on diddy kong but has too many problems..
Hope my english wasn't too terrible^^
 

Xelrog

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Don't worry about improving too slow. Just keep trying characters.

:ultinkling::ultmetaknight::ultpikachu::ultpit: are all pretty fast and strong in the air.

:ultbowser: is a heavy with good speed and air options.

:ultpeach::ultdaisy: aren't super fast, but they are very mobile and have many air options.
 

Velshoor

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Don't worry about improving too slow. Just keep trying characters.

:ultinkling::ultmetaknight::ultpikachu::ultpit: are all pretty fast and strong in the air.

:ultbowser: is a heavy with good speed and air options.

:ultpeach::ultdaisy: aren't super fast, but they are very mobile and have many air options.
I don't really like Bowser, he's too heavy and I can't handle it..
Meta knite is interesting but I don't know...
I used peach and inkling for some times and I think inkling is almost there, but it's not totally for me.. same with Peach.
I will try Pikachu!
Diddy Kong would be perfect if they didn't need so hard he's vertical recovery..
And what about Sonic? I thought about it, but I don't know..
 

staindgrey

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I actually want some insight here, though I'm browsing the character forum and have been playing against friends in the Social thread for experience.

I'm thinking of maining Corrin. I love her movement and ability within neutral. The moveset flows well and, while I initially tried to play a lot of Lucina, Corrin feels more natural to me. However, I cannot ****ing kill with her in a reasonable amount of time against a decent player. I'll consistently rack up a substantial percentage lead before losing the stock lead because I can't hit with a tipper or properly chase offstage. The most reliable kill move I seem to have is her counter and that's not a good best-option to have.

Is there enough upside to warrant seriously pursuing her as a main or have her kill nerfs hurt her too much?
 

Xelrog

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And what about Sonic? I thought about it, but I don't know..
Try him if you want. He's very technical and his Up-air is slow, which is why I didn't really recommend him. He also lacks finishing power.

Best advice for an aspiring Mario main. Go!
It looks like you've been a Mario main for quite a while, though? If you want tips for a specific character, you should probably try the character forum.
 

MavPL

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Hello guys, need some help from you.

I'm new to Smash but not new to the FG in general. Picking mains was always my problem, so this time I decided to pick one once for all and lab him to death.

I'd like to main an offensive, faster rather then slow, in your face character (think Ken in SF, but not the flowchart meme Ken :) ) but the one which isn't braindead and one-dimensional. Who has a solid and relatively safe offence and good recovery (again, no braindead yolo stuff). Also I'm not like totally tier ***** ;) but prefer to play characters which are at least in the mid :)

I've done my research, know the archetypes and tiers. I've already sinked like 30h into world of light. Unlocked most of the fighters and I'm like 90% decided to stick with Fox or Pikachu but I'm open for other suggestions based on the description above (I don't like Lucina and swordies in general, as they seems laggy and boring. Well maybe Ylink but I think he's more like a zoner... Thought about Wario but he seems gimmicky)

I'd like you to help me decide which one to pick, based on these answers:

Which one is more fundamental based and honest ? (I like to learn the game the proper way)
Which one of them has better neutral game, range and approach tools ? (probably Pika?)
Which one of them is harder and have more advance BnB techs required to do good (skill floor) ?
Any other recomendations?

Thanks in advance for any help :)
 
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God Emperor Yoshi

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Hello guys, need some help from you.

I'm new to Smash but not new to the FG in general. Picking mains was always my problem, so this time I decided to pick one once for all and lab him to death.

I'd like to main an offensive, faster rather then slow, in your face character (think Ken in SF, but not the flowchart meme Ken :) ) but the one which isn't braindead and one-dimensional. Who has a solid and relatively safe offence and good recovery (again, no braindead yolo stuff). Also I'm not like totally tier ***** ;) but prefer to play characters which are at least in the mid :)

I've done my research, know the archetypes and tiers. I've already sinked like 30h into world of light. Unlocked most of the fighters and I'm like 90% decided to stick with Fox or Pikachu but I'm open for other suggestions based on the description above (I don't like Lucina and swordies in general, as they seems laggy and boring. Well maybe Ylink but I think he's more like a zoner... Thought about Wario but he seems gimmicky)

I'd like you to help me decide which one to pick, based on these answers:

Which one is more fundamental based and honest ? (I like to learn the game the proper way)
Which one of them has better neutral game, range and approach tools ? (probably Pika?)
Which one of them is harder and have more advance BnB techs required to do good (skill floor) ?
Any other recomendations?

Thanks in advance for any help :)
Yoshi has all of the qualities you mentioned, but with the added benefit of a good punish game and aerial mobility. Even his historically mediocre recovery has gotten a marked improvement with how the momentum gained from his Up B is added onto his ridiculous 2nd Jump.
 

channel_KYX

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Which one is more fundamental based and honest ? (I like to learn the game the proper way)
Which one of them has better neutral game, range and approach tools ? (probably Pika?)
Which one of them is harder and have more advance BnB techs required to do good (skill floor) ?
Any other recomendations?
Both Fox and Pikachu fit that very well. I am no expert on both, but I'd say Fox has a higher skill ceiling.
 

Chewshoe

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Okay, so I've been trying many different characters lately and I've still had no luck finding a main. I was referred to Ike by Izaw, but there is a big issue with him that I really don't like:

His attacks feel like they come out way too slow.

The fact that my brother mains Ike means I should probably pick a different character as well. I know ditto matches are good to learn from, but I just prefer not to play dittos, as they do get confusing at times. Now I understand I've played Mr. Game & Watch a lot in the previous games, but in Ultimate, he's just not cutting it thanks to his new fair, hitboxes being smaller, and down throw having too much knockback.
 

channel_KYX

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Okay, so I've been trying many different characters lately and I've still had no luck finding a main. I was referred to Ike by Izaw, but there is a big issue with him that I really don't like:

His attacks feel like they come out way too slow.

The fact that my brother mains Ike means I should probably pick a different character as well. I know ditto matches are good to learn from, but I just prefer not to play dittos, as they do get confusing at times. Now I understand I've played Mr. Game & Watch a lot in the previous games, but in Ultimate, he's just not cutting it thanks to his new fair, hitboxes being smaller, and down throw having too much knockback.
Well, you could join the bandwagon and play Wolf. Fast attacks and good combos.
Or go for a swordie if you need more range.
 

Chewshoe

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Is Wolf considered good? I've heard both opinions on him from players of I-don't-know skill levels.
ZeRo mains Wolf in Ultimate, claiming that he's top tier along with Fox. RankedBoost has him in A tier. VoiD has Wolf in top tier for his list. I know that's only just a few examples, but Wolf does have a rather high placement in 2.0 tier lists.

Yet again, I don't do tier-based picks, as I mained Game & Watch in Smash 4. I'm using Wolf this time around because he just kinda works for me.
 

Keeshu

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Is Wolf considered good? I've heard both opinions on him from players of I-don't-know skill levels.
Since I have a hard time resisting the urge listening to tier lists while I do chores, I'd say it's very safe to say most top players think Wolf is top tier.

I consider myself a mid-level player. I don't have perfect control of characters like top tier players do, but I often know what the opponent is going to do and punish them accordingly, but I don't have the best punishes because my fingers don't co-operate sometimes. So with my experience with Wolf, he feels very good and he's very easy. His recovery is pretty bad, but at least his side B is very hard to punish and even if you attempt to punish it you could die instead if you're just slightly off so most people won't try too hard to edgeguard you unless they know of a way to avoid the spike hit box, in which case you're probably dead. His blaster is absolutely ridiculous though. A lot of the time I don't even really have to fight neutral because the blaster does too much damage for how insanely easy it is to hit people due to it's speed, size, and range. However, sometimes people don't even want to get close because he's such a fast character. I had to prevent myself from using his blaster so I can force myself to learn his other moves better because that blaster can pretty much carry you. I definitely expect a nerf to blaster in some way at some point. Can't go wrong with Wolf.

Funnily enough Wolf was the first character I tried to do competitive techniques with, in Brawl of all smash games. A few things carry over, but overall he feels like a completely different character to me. Took me a little while to get used to the Forward Smash and Down Smash changes because they were so dang fast in Brawl. Though it sorta feels like he can KO with more moves now.
 

WumpaWolfy

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Hey guys, I'm coming from melee and am having a hard time settling on a main, hope you guys can help. Mostly looking for a versatile main to dominate my local friend group, not sure how interested I am in tournament play. Here's what I'm looking for:

-Has a great edgeguard game (I have no idea how to ledgetrap and I can't resist jumping deep offstage to seal the deal).
-Has a great out of shield option.
-Has fluid and slick movement.
-Has great aerials.
-Is not overly grab centric OR has a fantastic grab that makes it hard to punish my pants grab game.
-Has a positive or even matchup vs Pichu and Young Link, my two main meta threats (not necessary but a huge benefit).
-I want a well rounded character, but also one that gets a "oh damn, you're that doc main" kind of reaction that I enjoyed in melee. I don't know how much I care about this bit anymore but I have conflicting tier *****/low tier hero inclinations.
-A character unlikely to end up in a ditto match/overlap with mains of players in my group.

Previous Mains:

64::ultjigglypuff:
Melee::ultdoc:
Brawl::ultwolf::ultpikachu:
PM::ultivysaur:
Smash 4: ...:ultgreninja: I guess, dropped the game after he was nerfed

Current characters I'm considering:

:ultpokemontrainer::ultivysaur: I adore Ivysaur but the other pokemon haven't been resonating with me and the learning curve feels very steep. Big Leff dropping the character has brought back the trauma of Shroomed dropping Doc. May keep as a pocket fun character as their playstyle feels so exciting and refreshing. Did I mention Ivysaur is my favourite Pokemon?

:ultpikachu::ultpichu: Pikachu and Pichu have the amazing off stage game and recovery I want, with a solid tempo controlling projectile to boot. My brawl Pika QAC experience has helped my Pika game too. Only downside (and one I consider to be very significant) is we already have a player in our group who has claimed Pichu as his main and I hate doubling down. Immature but hard to overcome. I also hate ditto matches. Because of this I've been leaning on Pikachu over Pichu and spending lots of time in the lab practicing ff nair utilt combos rocking my slick Gold Pika hat.

:ultinkling::ultmetaknight: Inkling and Metaknight are characters with which I have very little experience with or understanding of their playstyles, but like the Pikas have that fanatastic offstage game that has them on my radar.

:ultwolf::ultike: Love the neutral games of these guys but the fact that they can't jump off the stage without instantly dying has been a huge frustration despite my early success with these two. They both feel like they reward my fundamentals and their characters suit me well. I struggle being the patient grounded Wolf I see Zackray play and my soul dies a little every time I have to stop the nairplane as Ike to uselessly set the ledge ablaze while my opponent recovers for free. Both were strong early contenders for my prospective main but I am currently investing more time in PT and Pika.

:ultlucina::ultwario: Lastly, Lucina and Wario are characters I feel no personal connection to but I like the way their playstyles flow. They feel good in my hands, but also bore me at the same time. I could easily see picking one or the other up as a secondary to overcome bad matchups when having a secondary actually matters, but I don't know if I feel a strong enough connection to them to make them my primary focus.
 
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AJb1205

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I currently main Ness but I definitely feel like I need a secondary. Ness kinda gets clapped by sword characters because of their better disjoint and I also lose to characters like wolf and fox a lot but they're a lot more manageable. I like having a good neutral with good aerials and having a good out of shield option to help me get away or do good damage. I also like characters with good off stage game and aren't too difficult to kill with.
 
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Disclaimer: Noob here. Just started SSB with ultimate. Early fan of the Star Fox saga (yes, from the first episode on the Super Nintendo). Have been maining Wolf from the beginning. Playing Wolf I have come to the point that I can kick the butt of lev 9 bo0ts more often than not. Still struggling to win games online though. Still considering myself a low level - kinda Z tier player in the competitive game.
Recently I was thinking that it may be interesting to give a shot to Fox and even more Falco. Quite stupidly, I was influenced by comments claiming that Wolf was one of the best characters and I thought it would be better to master and eventually succeed with a character that is not top tier, like Falco. After watching a couple of videos on Youtube I started to practice Falco aerial combos in training mode and then decided to test my brand new aerial skills against bots. Unfortunately, getting deadly aerial combos with Falco was a totally different story outside the training mode. After trying for one week, I am still struggling against bots that are just lev 7, while I make 100% of wins with Wolf at this level. This may reflect the fact that one week is not enough and I have spent more time on Wolf. But my conclusion is that Wolf is really top tier for noobs. He is powerful, easy to handle, and if his combo potential is not as good as Falco (or Fox), it would probably take much more time to master other spacies to the level that would allow me to make online wins on a regular basis. Conclusion: I will not give a F that Wolf is top or low tier for SSB champions, he is just top tier for me. Wolf is just a cool character and probably one of the easiest character to start with. I may continue to play Falco a little bit because he is fun too, but will keep Wolf as main.
Would be interested to hear your comments on this and to learn about other good "basic" characters that may be good picks for beginners.
 
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Xelrog

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If you like Wolf, play Wolf.

Pikachu/Pichu are considered extremely good and are pretty easy to pick up and play and grasp how their moves work. Olimar (I feel) is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum, and requires a lot of precision and knowledge/coordination to maximize his potential. Peach/Daisy are somewhere in the middle in that they have some pretty easy techniques to pick up but a high ceiling for much trickier ones.
 
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Hello,
this is my first Smash-game ever, I never played it before (although I am 28 years old) and started playing without knowing if I will like it. And well, I like it alot! I'm not a fan of the solo-content and just fighting the CPU and online to improve my gameplay, played around 50 hours already. I started with Captain Falcon and watched many of Fatalitys videos, but as an absolute beginner, combos are almost impossible because of the tight timing and that I am still bad at shorthopping. I then tried other characters and found Isabelle quiet interesting, because combos seem easier and the gameplay is somewhat slower. Im still stuck between 70-80k GSP, but I have the feeling it gets better.
My question is : As a beginner I am worried I will learn the game mechanics the wrong way because I play with an unique character like Isabelle. Should I switch my character to something more technical, like wolf or fox, to learn the basics or should I stay with Isabelle?
I am playing for 3 weeks now and don't want to start all over after more time because my skills I developed with Isabelle will be worthless when trying to play competitive with stronger characters.
Thank you for your help!
 
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Hello,
this is my first Smash-game ever, I never played it before (although I am 28 years old) and started playing without knowing if I will like it. And well, I like it alot! I'm not a fan of the solo-content and just fighting the CPU and online to improve my gameplay, played around 50 hours already. I started with Captain Falcon and watched many of Fatalitys videos, but as an absolute beginner, combos are almost impossible because of the tight timing and that I am still bad at shorthopping. I then tried other characters and found Isabelle quiet interesting, because combos seem easier and the gameplay is somewhat slower. Im still stuck between 70-80k GSP, but I have the feeling it gets better.
My question is : As a beginner I am worried I will learn the game mechanics the wrong way because I play with an unique character like Isabelle. Should I switch my character to something more technical, like wolf or fox, to learn the basics or should I stay with Isabelle?
I am playing for 3 weeks now and don't want to start all over after more time because my skills I developed with Isabelle will be worthless when trying to play competitive with stronger characters.
Thank you for your help!
Personally, my picks for beginners are Cloud, Ike, Captain Falcon, Fox, R.O.B., Mario, and Palutena.

:ultcloud::ultike:: These characters are really good to learn spacing with. They're also really good sword fighters in general, but Ike has the better recovery of the two. If you want to play a character that requires good spacing like Marth, who has a sweetspot at the tip of his sword, then I'd recommend starting with these two and moving on to Lucina.

:ultfalcon::ultfox:: Great combo based characters, especially if we're talking about Fox. Captain Falcon can do some amazing combos, and is pretty easy to get a grip on how to use properly as a combo character. Fox is extremely flexible and can be used in pretty much any way. He's got a decent grab and good throws, his recovery is great, but he's a fast-falling lightweight. Fox's combo game is through the roof and if you can get momentum going and you're a decent Fox player, you'll have a hard time losing.

:ultmario::ultrob::ultpalutena:: Great all-arounders for beginners. R.O.B. and Palutena are significantly better than they were in Smash 4, but you said Ultimate was your first Smash game. Mario is great for teaching the general fundamentals, as he has a solid projectile, a good recovery, a reflector, and a move that gimps other players' recovery. These three all have quite a good combo game as well. R.O.B. being the heaviest of the three, he's probably going to get combo'd the easiest but he also has two good projectiles and a reflector, with some nice throw moves. His Up-Air is a good multi-hitting move that deals a lot of damage. Many of R.O.B.'s moves are very hard to punish as well. Palutena has a counter, a reflector, and two projectiles with a solid combo game and good throws. If you like solid all-arounders, I'd highly recommend one of these three.
 

Xelrog

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What is it about those matchups that hurts Roy? Is it mainly a zoning thing? If so, you could try Cloud for a sword boi with a reliable projectile, or if you really want to learn the projectile game in-depth you could go with one of the Links.

Robin's sword attacks are a bit like Roy's but I've personally never liked how technical he/she is.
 

MNaumov

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There's a wide variety of factors to base a secondary pick off of. Is it a secondary MAIN, or just a secondary? Is this secondary a character you're picking up for variety / fun, or is it to fill the gaps created by your current main's less fortunate MU's?

All in all, if you want something similar to Roy that doesn't have a single bad MU across the whole roster on top of being of one if not THE best characters in the game.. pick Lucina.

She'll play VERY closely to Roy, few differences.. pros include not having to worry about a sweet spot, having a better recovery, having a better DAir.. etc. Roy is a fun character, Roy is a great high tier, but if you want a secondary main you can use when Roy just ain't cutting it for whatever reason, who also plays in a way that won't mess you up between transitions from Roy to the secondary..? Lucina is by far your best bet.

Marth is fine too but he has to worry about his tipper sweetspot which is 100% going to mess up how you play Roy considering how different their SS's are placed on the blade. One is hilt, one is tip, entirely different spacing game. Lucina won't screw you in that department. Chrom has a terrible recovery and I feel Roy overall is just better than he is. Ike is very different in terms of how he feels and plays, as is Cloud and Corrin. The most similar to your main are Chrom, Marth and Lucina and Lucina is by far the best option of those 3.

Otherwise, it's a matter of what you want / need. Zoning / turtling / strong neutrals? Rush-down, combo game and early kill potential? Etc, etc. I'd recommend actually keeping multiple (2-3) secondary characters in your pocket that can diversely fill out all the MU jank you may have, plus it's nice to not be locked into the same character for hundreds of games in a row which can burn on you a bit in my experience.. so even if you main a top tier with no real bad MU's, a secondary never hurts.
 
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What is it about those matchups that hurts Roy? Is it mainly a zoning thing? If so, you could try Cloud for a sword boi with a reliable projectile, or if you really want to learn the projectile game in-depth you could go with one of the Links.

Robin's sword attacks are a bit like Roy's but I've personally never liked how technical he/she is.
I tried Robin but I switching between Levin sword is awkward and I can't play without tilt stick but I might s
Try cloud or one of the links
 
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