Q&A Smash Ultimate "Mains Advice" Thread

Call_Me_Red

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Isabelle's no worse than K. Rool or Bayonetta. They're all held in kind of low regard at the moment.

Anything you're particularly drawn to in a character or playstyle? How do you like to play? It sounds like you're more into K. Rool for the character than for how he plays, which doesn't give us much to draw from.
Tbh I'm drawn to the characters more than their playstyles. I usually don't pick up a character unless I've played their games, which I know makes this harder but I'll give it a shot.

I prefer close range fighting, preferably someone who doesn't struggle to kill, and I like to have at least one projectile so I don't get completely camped out. And style points are an absolute must. I generally lean towards heavies, but that's not a box that has to be checked. And lastly, as dumb as it sounds, I like a character that's underrated. I don't want to play a top tier character and be just another top tier main, I want my characters to be slightly unique (as you can tell by K Rool and Bayo).

In Sm4sh my line up was Charizard, Pit, Jigglypuff, Palutena, and Wario. This time around I'm actually competing so I want a little more cohesive team, and I want my top three to cover eachother's weaknesses (which right now is speedsters and projectile characters). Idk, I think I have a bunch of checkboxes, making this kinda hard.

And just for more clarity, franchises I've played:
Bayo, Mario, DKC, Zelda, Pokemon, Splatoon, Animal Crossing, Persona, Kirby, Punchout, Megaman, Mii, Kid Icarus, Xenoblade, Sonic
 
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Zachmac

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I prefer close range fighting, preferably someone who doesn't struggle to kill, and I like to have at least one projectile so I don't get completely camped out. And style points are an absolute must. I generally lean towards heavies, but that's not a box that has to be checked. And lastly, as dumb as it sounds, I like a character that's underrated. I don't want to play a top tier character and be just another top tier main, I want my characters to be slightly unique (as you can tell by K Rool and Bayo).
Reading this description makes me think of Mario.

He...
- Has very fast close range options and a great combo game.
- Has good smash attacks and edge guarding for when you need to kill, and can finish off really pesky opponents who refuse to die with Dair and Bair at higher percents.
- Can deal with camping somewhat with his Fire Ball and good mobility, although he struggles a little against swordies (on the flipside though, K.Rool doesn't generally do to terrible against swords himself imo so you've got some coverage there).
- Has a super stylish Fair as well as free-form combos for styling.

He's also just a really simple character who will reward and teach you fundamentals, which makes for a good secondary. Not sure if I'd call him underrated though. Back in Smash 4 I mained a low-tier(:4charizard:) alongside a high-tier(:4mewtwo:) secondary before and it became very tempting to just make Mewtwo my main as I got more serious about it so I can kind of understand the reluctance to pick up a better character.
 

rawrau

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Guys I'm stuck, I can't decide on a solid main trio.

So here's my sitch:
-I definitely want King K in the roster, sentimental value, I'm sticking with him
-I thought I'd make PT my secondary because he covers so many weaknesses, and 3 character? I'll never get bored
---I got bored
---Also, everyone knows the PT match up, everyone has a pocket PT, that's not how I like to play
-I want to make Bayo work and lately I've been having a lot of fun with her, but fun =/= results
-I'd like to have Isabelle but according to the whole world she's bottom tier, but there's an Isabelle resurgence lately

TL;DR King K main, need a solid secondary (preferably someone in my signature, but I'm open to suggestions). Bayo, PT, and Isabelle are good contenders.
Actually PT doesn't cover many weaknesses, while he's very good against most of the roster, he sucks Vs. top tiers and -in my opinion- has crappy matchups Vs. Sonic, Fox and maybe Diddy.

I don't know much about K. Rool, but he's very exploitable to the point Isabelle might make a better main
 

Call_Me_Red

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Reading this description makes me think of Mario.

He...
- Has very fast close range options and a great combo game.
- Has good smash attacks and edge guarding for when you need to kill, and can finish off really pesky opponents who refuse to die with Dair and Bair at higher percents.
- Can deal with camping somewhat with his Fire Ball and good mobility, although he struggles a little against swordies (on the flipside though, K.Rool doesn't generally do to terrible against swords himself imo so you've got some coverage there).
- Has a super stylish Fair as well as free-form combos for styling.

He's also just a really simple character who will reward and teach you fundamentals, which makes for a good secondary. Not sure if I'd call him underrated though. Back in Smash 4 I mained a low-tier(:4charizard:) alongside a high-tier(:4mewtwo:) secondary before and it became very tempting to just make Mewtwo my main as I got more serious about it so I can kind of understand the reluctance to pick up a better character.
I was kinda thinking this too. Very middle of the road, not particularly bad against anyone (except swordies like you mentioned, and yes, K Rool does pretty well against them). Got the style points with cape and FLUDD. I don't think I'd be terribly oppossed. The only thing is I'm not crazy about his aesthetics. How do you feel Dr. Mario is in comparison?
 

Call_Me_Red

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Actually PT doesn't cover many weaknesses, while he's very good against most of the roster, he sucks Vs. top tiers and -in my opinion- has crappy matchups Vs. Sonic, Fox and maybe Diddy.

I don't know much about K. Rool, but he's very exploitable to the point Isabelle might make a better main
I just feel like PT has a lot of answers to a lot of problems. But I would agree, against speedsters they aren't great. Squirtle just can't keep up, Ivy's razor leaf is the only answer, and Zard is just a punching bag at that point.

I think I need a projectile character to even out my roster. I don't think Isabelle is a bad choice at all, and I've been looking at Toon Link also. I think Tink is a little bit lacking, and Isabelle's tools just don't always work, but besides that they both meet the requirements.

Thanks for the help!
 

Zachmac

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I was kinda thinking this too. Very middle of the road, not particularly bad against anyone (except swordies like you mentioned, and yes, K Rool does pretty well against them). Got the style points with cape and FLUDD. I don't think I'd be terribly oppossed. The only thing is I'm not crazy about his aesthetics. How do you feel Dr. Mario is in comparison?
I'm not as familiar with Doc but his mobility is much worse then Mario's at the cost of power, so I think his strengths and weaknesses overlap with K.Rools at bit more.

He's definitely more of a heavy-hitter and underdog pick if those two things are important to you though.
 

Gobthor

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Need help picking a zoner to compliment my :ultfox: . I have been considering :ultdarksamus: , who i am the best with online (However, I am aware that D Samus is great for wifi), :ultrichter: , who i also have great success with, or :ultpokemontrainer: , of which i would mainly only play ivysaur, and have to put in a bit more work (which i'm fine with). Any suggestions would be great!
Cheers
I feel like it definitely depends on the amount of commitment you are willing to give your zoner.
 

Zachmac

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Any advice for a Pit main I to know how to fight off stage
Take note of how your opponent recovers and use your multijumps to position yourself to intercept it. Fair and Dair are my main edgeguarding tools when playing as one of the Pits. Don't be too scared to go deep, Pit has a good enough recovery to make it back.

Shooting and arrow at your target while off stage can be a good way to force a reaction or stuff out their double jump, which could put you in a better position for edgegaurding. Definitely practice with controlling Pit's arrows.
 

MavPL

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ok, since I'm a f.. retared I still can't decide on a main, despite playing like 1000 online matches over the span of like 20 toons.
BUT I have decided that the best playstyle that suit my style is rushdown and punish game, but I also like a flexible gameplan so I prefer to have some projectile game as well.

What I want is:

fast movement, rushdown and punishing playstyle
good frame data and solid neutral
good edge guarding and recovery
solid approach and grab game (love grabs)
more technical playstyle and no braindead uga-bunga gameplan (looking to you: Ike Nair, also most swordies)

Based on that I've narrowed my choice to either Pikachu (or Pichu if he's not dead yet after the nerfs) vs Joker as they both more or less met my criteria.

My questions are which one of those two is easier to grasp and play on "wifi smash online" level ? Which one has better neutral game and would you suggest for me to play ?

Thanks in advance for any sugestions.

(as to my previous contenders, fox is out of the question, I don't like the recovery and weak projectile, Wolf seems braindead to me. Palutena have laggy moveset and her gameplan is basically spam nair)
 

Vistra31

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Any advice for a Pit main I to know how to fight off stage
I'll give you every option from worst to best.
Side B: Straight up never use it. You'll just die.
Arrows: Their okay but if an opponent can recover low you'll miss. Better the farther away you are from your opponent because it's safer.
Uair: It works for high recoveries but that's pretty much it. It can kill at higher percentages but that's probably the best thing it can do.
Back air: It might kill but it also might send people upwards. You can probably use it more than once but it's up here because of the inconvenience.
Nair: If you can get the last hit it's okay but it doesn't do too much damage and you'll have to combine it with Fair
Dair: This move does more damage but if you don't get the spike they stay living and your other jumps probably don't go up high enough to follow up.
Fair: Best of Pit's options. Getting the last hit offstage is a guaranteed KO at higher damage and you can string them for maximum ownage. It's also the easiest option to go for.
 

Alicorn

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I'll give you every option from worst to best.
Side B: Straight up never use it. You'll just die.
Arrows: Their okay but if an opponent can recover low you'll miss. Better the farther away you are from your opponent because it's safer.
Uair: It works for high recoveries but that's pretty much it. It can kill at higher percentages but that's probably the best thing it can do.
Back air: It might kill but it also might send people upwards. You can probably use it more than once but it's up here because of the inconvenience.
Nair: If you can get the last hit it's okay but it doesn't do too much damage and you'll have to combine it with Fair
Dair: This move does more damage but if you don't get the spike they stay living and your other jumps probably don't go up high enough to follow up.
Fair: Best of Pit's options. Getting the last hit offstage is a guaranteed KO at higher damage and you can string them for maximum ownage. It's also the easiest option to go for.
Can I use side B in the air its good for combos and has super armor thoughout the whole dash. unlike the ground which has super armor on the dash only and not the start up.
 

Vistra31

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Can I use side B in the air its good for combos and has super armor thoughout the whole dash. unlike the ground which has super armor on the dash only and not the start up.
If you are on the stage after using it yes. Otherwise it's really laggy in the air and was probably only meant for recovery. Also it can be broken out of even on the ground for example it can't tank a Mii Gunner fsmash. I think you're better off comboing with other aerials or dthrow before going for style points with upperdash.
 

Call_Me_Red

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ok, since I'm a f.. retared I still can't decide on a main, despite playing like 1000 online matches over the span of like 20 toons.
BUT I have decided that the best playstyle that suit my style is rushdown and punish game, but I also like a flexible gameplan so I prefer to have some projectile game as well.

What I want is:

fast movement, rushdown and punishing playstyle
good frame data and solid neutral
good edge guarding and recovery
solid approach and grab game (love grabs)
more technical playstyle and no braindead uga-bunga gameplan (looking to you: Ike Nair, also most swordies)

Based on that I've narrowed my choice to either Pikachu (or Pichu if he's not dead yet after the nerfs) vs Joker as they both more or less met my criteria.

My questions are which one of those two is easier to grasp and play on "wifi smash online" level ? Which one has better neutral game and would you suggest for me to play ?

Thanks in advance for any sugestions.

(as to my previous contenders, fox is out of the question, I don't like the recovery and weak projectile, Wolf seems braindead to me. Palutena have laggy moveset and her gameplan is basically spam nair)
Why don't you give Bowser a try? The only box he doesn't check is 'edge guarding and recovery', but he's not particularly bad at this. He's somewhat fast, very neutral dependent, he is THE grapple character in this game. Maybe not technical, but definitely not braindead. Bowser revolves around approaches and knowing which option your opponent will pick and hitting the hard punish. Also, he's in your profile picture, so I figure you at least like him a little.
 

Pl0xM4st3r

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I've been trying to find a main since Smash 4, but I've just been completely unable to stick with someone for long enough to consider them my main. My playstyle is more on the aggressive side, but not completely so. I like to get in, but I like to test the waters with some fast aerials and see what I can land. I guess the way I'd put it is that I like doing whatever I feel like at the moment, but I like to approach rather than camp someone out the whole game. I'm not good at landing more precise moves, so someone who doesn't have too much difficulty killing would be nice. I'm not very good at edgeguarding.
 

Call_Me_Red

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I've been trying to find a main since Smash 4, but I've just been completely unable to stick with someone for long enough to consider them my main. My playstyle is more on the aggressive side, but not completely so. I like to get in, but I like to test the waters with some fast aerials and see what I can land. I guess the way I'd put it is that I like doing whatever I feel like at the moment, but I like to approach rather than camp someone out the whole game. I'm not good at landing more precise moves, so someone who doesn't have too much difficulty killing would be nice. I'm not very good at edgeguarding.
Just off the quick description you've given, it made me think of:
-Wario
-Fox
-Inkling
-Joker
-Diddy

All are fast, benefit from aggression, have fast aerials, and don't rely majorly on offstage presence. Wario and Diddy in particular fit the 'I like to do whatever I feel like'. Fox is super fast and aggressive with no trouble killing. Inkling struggles to kill, but all other stats make them accessible. Joker is fast and combo oriented, but once you have Arsene, killing is ez.
 

Pl0xM4st3r

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Just off the quick description you've given, it made me think of:
-Wario
-Fox
-Inkling
-Joker
-Diddy
Out of all of those, I definitely like Fox the best. However, his status as a fast-faller makes him feel a little clunky to me, and all of his moves require precision to land, something that I'm not great as as someone pretty new to competitive play. I've always been one to rush in with reckless abandon in video games. In single players games, this usually works out, but in multiplayer ones, it doesn't work as well. It's a bad habit I need to get out of, but even when/if I do, I'll still be the type of person who wants to go rushing in and demolish the opponent (I'll just be smarter about it).

If giving a list of some of the characters I enjoy playing will help, here they are in no particular order
-Roy
-Lucina
-Young Link
-Bowser
-Ridley
-Mewtwo
-Lucario
-C. Falcon
And a few others but I'll keep it brief.
 
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Zinith

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Out of all of those, I definitely like Fox the best. However, his status as a fast-faller makes him feel a little clunky to me, and all of his moves require precision to land, something that I'm not great as as someone pretty new to competitive play. I've always been one to rush in with reckless abandon in video games. In single players games, this usually works out, but in multiplayer ones, it doesn't work as well. It's a bad habit I need to get out of, but even when/if I do, I'll still be the type of person who wants to go rushing in and demolish the opponent (I'll just be smarter about it).

If giving a list of some of the characters I enjoy playing will help, here they are in no particular order
-Roy
-Lucina
-Young Link
-Bowser
-Ridley
-Mewtwo
-Lucario
-C. Falcon
And a few others but I'll keep it brief.
Yoshi has great mobility and hits hard. Give him at least a thought...
 

Pl0xM4st3r

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Everybody that I don't outright refuse to play, I've given a shot. Yoshi is pretty enjoyable to me, and I know his recovery isn't bad, but the lack of a third jump feels weird to me.
 

Zinith

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Everybody that I don't outright refuse to play, I've given a shot. Yoshi is pretty enjoyable to me, and I know his recovery isn't bad, but the lack of a third jump feels weird to me.
He does have a third jump, and it's just that it relies on the momentum added from his large double jump...
 

SGoW

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I've spent a lot of time since Ultimate came out trying to find a main, but I have yet to find a character that fits what I enjoy. Mr. Game & Watch was my main in Brawl and 4, and I would describe him as 'versatile' and a 'glass cannon'. Game & Watch's moveset got an overhaul in Ultimate, changing how he played and I just don't enjoy him that much anymore. Are there any characters that play similarly to old G&W that I could try?
 

Call_Me_Red

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I've spent a lot of time since Ultimate came out trying to find a main, but I have yet to find a character that fits what I enjoy. Mr. Game & Watch was my main in Brawl and 4, and I would describe him as 'versatile' and a 'glass cannon'. Game & Watch's moveset got an overhaul in Ultimate, changing how he played and I just don't enjoy him that much anymore. Are there any characters that play similarly to old G&W that I could try?
Might be a little bit silly, but what about Hero? Despite all the controversy, he fits the bill of what you want. His spells are random and completely change how the game is played. He can kill stupid early (even without crits or whack), and he has that random hype factor that I know G&W mains love. May not be a 1 for 1 comparison, but I think you'd enjoy it.
 

VodkaHaze

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I've spent a lot of time since Ultimate came out trying to find a main, but I have yet to find a character that fits what I enjoy. Mr. Game & Watch was my main in Brawl and 4, and I would describe him as 'versatile' and a 'glass cannon'. Game & Watch's moveset got an overhaul in Ultimate, changing how he played and I just don't enjoy him that much anymore. Are there any characters that play similarly to old G&W that I could try?
If you're looking for a character that's versatile and a glass cannon, I'd recommend Pichu, Sheik, Fox, or even picking up G&W again.
 

Reddroast

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I've started going to locals in my region but I now have a character crisis between Rob yoshi and inkling for my main. I feel somewhat comfortable with all three and can't figure out which one to main. any help is appreciated
 
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Call_Me_Red

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I've started going to locals in my region but I now have a character crisis between Rob yoshi and inkling for my main. I feel somewhat comfortable with all three and can't figure out which one to main. any help is appreciated
I mean, no one says you have to pick a main out of those three. Having a tri-main isn't uncommon. But if you really want to main one and one only, it comes down to what you want. If you want a top tier, Inklings a good pick, if you like projectiles, ROB is cool, if you like...Yoshi, then Yoshi is good too.

TLDR; Pick who you want, or don't, both options are okay.
 

Zinith

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I mean, no one says you have to pick a main out of those three. Having a tri-main isn't uncommon. But if you really want to main one and one only, it comes down to what you want. If you want a top tier, Inklings a good pick, if you like projectiles, ROB is cool, if you like...Yoshi, then Yoshi is good too.

TLDR; Pick who you want, or don't, both options are okay.
Oh come on, give my boi credit. If you like bullying characters in the air, go with Yoshi :yoshi:
 

Coccinelle

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I would say I have been a beginner at smash since SSBU release. Unfortunately I am still not very good at it and hope I will improve. I put a lot of efforts into Falco but eventually drpped him because I felt like he was very difficult to master. Wich much less training with Wolf and even DK I found these characters more rewarding. I know that some will say that the most important is to find a character that you like, however I also enjoy winning a bit more;)
Currently I 'm still maining Wolf and like him, but not rarely I struggle to kill and I find his off stage game limited. Much more important, I know I have still a lot to learn about fundamentals to become a better player. Since many people recommend Lucina as a good pick for beginners and she looks cool to me, I was thinking to drop Wolf and restarting from scratch with Lucina. Do you think switching to Lucina could help me to build ssb fundamentals more easily than Wolf and eventually become better or should I continue to practice with Wolf? How good is Wolf for a not very skilled player like me in comparison with Lucina?
 
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Xelrog

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I would say I have been a beginner at smash since SSBU release. Unfortunately I am still not very good at it and hope I will improve. I put a lot of efforts into Falco but eventually drpped him because I felt like he was very difficult to master. Wich much less training with Wolf and even DK I found these characters more rewarding. I know that some will say that the most important is to find a character that you like, however I also enjoy winning a bit more;)
Currently I 'm still maining Wolf and like him, but not rarely I struggle to kill and I find his off stage game limited. Much more important, I know I have still a lot to learn about fundamentals to become a better player. Since many people recommend Lucina as a good pick for beginners and she looks cool to me, I was thinking to drop Wolf and restarting from scratch with Lucina. Do you think switching to Lucina could help me to build ssb fundamentals more easily than Wolf and eventually become better or should I continue to practice with Wolf? How good is Wolf for a not very skilled player like me in comparison with Lucina?
If you enjoy the character, you'll play the game more. If you play the game more, you'll get better. Up to a point, anyway, but it doesn't sound like you're anywhere near that point, so you should play whoever will get you playing more.

You've pretty much got the characters down. Wolf has a comparatively low skill ceiling to achieve good results and not a lot of offstage game. Lucina is both a strong contender competitively and one of the best characters to learn game fundamentals with. It's not a bad idea to play either or both of them a good amount. DK is a harder sell when it comes to competitive play but if you're really interested in improving with him, check out the Discord server for DK mains. They're probably THE server most focused on gameplay improvement.
 

Coccinelle

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If you enjoy the character, you'll play the game more. If you play the game more, you'll get better. Up to a point, anyway, but it doesn't sound like you're anywhere near that point, so you should play whoever will get you playing more.

You've pretty much got the characters down. Wolf has a comparatively low skill ceiling to achieve good results and not a lot of offstage game. Lucina is both a strong contender competitively and one of the best characters to learn game fundamentals with. It's not a bad idea to play either or both of them a good amount. DK is a harder sell when it comes to competitive play but if you're really interested in improving with him, check out the Discord server for DK mains. They're probably THE server most focused on gameplay improvement.
Thanks a lot. I would really appreciate if you could elaborate a tad more. I enjoy Wolf and I could definitively continue to play him. But considering myself as a low level I was wondering if playing Lucina would be easier?On one hand I should try her to figure it out but on the other hand that would mean learning a new character from scratch. You say that Lucina one of the best characters to learn game fundamentals with, would you say the same for Wolf? Could you elaborate about "skill ceiling to achieve good results" between Wolf and Lucina?
 
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Xelrog

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Wolf's toolkit requires less risk and less precision to achieve comparable results against most characters compared to other characters. At least, I think that's the general attitude around him. He can do as much with a few moves (his tilts are notorious) as other characters need to memorize whole combos to achieve. That said, I haven't heard as much talk about him of late, so it could well be that people are either becoming very accustomed to the common Wolf matchup and how to deal with him, or that people have discovered enough new tech involving the more complex characters to give them a greater edge when played optimally. Maybe a combination of both.

That said, there's no character in this game that will carry you. My opinion is still that you should play who you have the most fun with. Both characters are completely viable at high levels of play. You're not going to "poison yourself" by playing Wolf.
 

Naptec

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Hey there, I'm just coming here for a friend who can't speak English properly

He struggles to stick to one character, and doesn't know who to choose.
I think his playstyle is based around waiting for the opponent to do a mistake and punish it, so I guess Bowser would be the perfect fit for him
But he currently plays Yoshi and GnW with that playstyle, and is too attached to them for dropping them (even though he sucks at those characters and never does the optimal stuff, like up-B OoS for GnW or Nair with Ike)
So what should I say to him? Is it best to stick to only GnW or Yoshi (tho he refuses to do that) and grind it to the max level, or just pick another character that suits the best for him?
 

Xelrog

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Hey there, I'm just coming here for a friend who can't speak English properly

He struggles to stick to one character, and doesn't know who to choose.
I think his playstyle is based around waiting for the opponent to do a mistake and punish it, so I guess Bowser would be the perfect fit for him
But he currently plays Yoshi and GnW with that playstyle, and is too attached to them for dropping them (even though he sucks at those characters and never does the optimal stuff, like up-B OoS for GnW or Nair with Ike)
So what should I say to him? Is it best to stick to only GnW or Yoshi (tho he refuses to do that) and grind it to the max level, or just pick another character that suits the best for him?
Both Yoshi and G&W are viable and there's no problem with him playing both of them. I don't see why he thinks he needs a new character.
 

Crooked Crow

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Perhaps your friend would take a liking to whiff punishers such as Fox, Terry, or Greninja, or even defensive, bait and punish characters like Wii Fit Trainer or Duck Hunt. Has he reached a conclusion on his own yet?
 

The Rhythm Theif

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Hi everyone. I need some advice to know which tertiary character that I would main competitively. I already have Mario and Dedede, but perhaps a little advice can help. I'm thinking of either an all out offensive character (rushdown), a character that can zone others out with projectiles (NOT Samus/Dark Samus), a defensive character, a heavyweight, an edgeguarding god, or just an all around basics fighter.
 
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Crooked Crow

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Hi everyone. I need some advice to know which tertiary character that I would main competitively. I already have Mario and Dedede, but perhaps a little advice can help. I'm thinking of either an all out offensive character (rushdown), a character that can zone others out with projectiles (NOT Samus/Dark Samus), a defensive character, a heavyweight, an edgeguarding god, or just an all around basics fighter.
Is a tertiary even necessary? I would imagine that between Mario and Dedede, a large majority of the roster is covered. To me, a tertiary is normally used for a specific match-up or two, and doesn't see much use otherwise.
 

The Rhythm Theif

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Is a tertiary even necessary? I would imagine that between Mario and Dedede, a large majority of the roster is covered. To me, a tertiary is normally used for a specific match-up or two, and doesn't see much use otherwise.
Well, on EventHubs, you can have up to a primary main (Mario in my case), a secondary main (Dedede in my case), and a tertiary main (which I don't have yet) when it comes to how many mains you have. Keep in mind this is for my competitive gig and not my casual gig, because I already have my casual mains.
 

Crooked Crow

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Well, on EventHubs, you can have up to a primary main (Mario in my case), a secondary main (Dedede in my case), and a tertiary main (which I don't have yet) when it comes to how many mains you have. Keep in mind this is for my competitive gig and not my casual gig, because I already have my casual mains.
I would say work on 1-2 characters until you reach a very high level; and then you can branch out.
 
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