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Q&A Smash Ultimate "Mains Advice" Thread

stickeefingas

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 8, 2020
Messages
2
So I've been playing since last Christmas and the entire time, I've been struggling to find a character that I want to stick to but I really want to find a Main. I've played Lucina, Mario, Wario, Diddy Kong and Wolf in that time but I've never had the desire to keep playing them after a while, probably due to burnout. Any advice would be appreciated.
 

DougEfresh

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
196
So I've been playing since last Christmas and the entire time, I've been struggling to find a character that I want to stick to but I really want to find a Main. I've played Lucina, Mario, Wario, Diddy Kong and Wolf in that time but I've never had the desire to keep playing them after a while, probably due to burnout. Any advice would be appreciated.
This depends on several things, honestly. I'll list some of them to get you thinking more clearly about what you want and value from a character to make your prospective main:

1) what's your skill level with Smash? If Ultimate is your first game, someone like :ultmario: or :ultlucina: are very good characters who are easy to pick up and learn solid fundamentals with. Mario will focus a bit more on combo game, but has strengths in other areas too. Lucina is more about spacing your long ranged sword attacks safely from a distance in neutral while also excelling at ledge trapping and edgeguarding especially (Note: if you are more of a beginner, don't feel like you have to be married to a character as a main forever. It's perfectly fine to play someone you're less passionate about initially and move on to a character you like more once you have a better understanding of the game).

2) what's your preferred playstyle? Do you like being more aggressive or defensive? Or more of a hybrid between aggressive and defensive playstyles so that your character is versatile enough to adapt as needed to various playstyles and match ups? Some, like Mario, are more of a "jack of all trades" type of character, while others are strong and weak in more specific areas to fit within their character designs.

3) what's your intention with Smash? Is it just to play more casually with friends and play a character you really enjoy and settle on him or her? Or do you want to eventually enter the competitive smash scene? It's still very possible to play a low or mid tier character as a solo main up until very high levels of play, but if this is your goal and you eventually reach this upper echelon of player skill, you'll either want to pick the path of least resistance and choose a high/top tier that suits your playstyle to make getting results relatively easy (assuming the proper mentality and time has been put in) or have a co-main/secondary that covers your low/mid tier main's bad MUs.

This is all pretty general, but hopefully it provides a framework for you to get the gears turning in your head about what you want to get out of your character in the long run. As time goes on, the character you decide to main will be someone you identify yourself with to some degree in your free time while you're playing, so overall, I think it's more important to trust your instinct and play whoever you click with the most. Enjoying who you play as will pay off in dividends as far as your willingness to invest time into self-improvement as a player while still having fun with the game more often than not, particularly when the vast majority of smash players do not wish to become PGR level players where tier lists and match up spreads become a greater concern.
 

stickeefingas

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 8, 2020
Messages
2
This depends on several things, honestly. I'll list some of them to get you thinking more clearly about what you want and value from a character to make your prospective main:

1) what's your skill level with Smash? If Ultimate is your first game, someone like :ultmario: or :ultlucina: are very good characters who are easy to pick up and learn solid fundamentals with. Mario will focus a bit more on combo game, but has strengths in other areas too. Lucina is more about spacing your long ranged sword attacks safely from a distance in neutral while also excelling at ledge trapping and edgeguarding especially (Note: if you are more of a beginner, don't feel like you have to be married to a character as a main forever. It's perfectly fine to play someone you're less passionate about initially and move on to a character you like more once you have a better understanding of the game).

2) what's your preferred playstyle? Do you like being more aggressive or defensive? Or more of a hybrid between aggressive and defensive playstyles so that your character is versatile enough to adapt as needed to various playstyles and match ups? Some, like Mario, are more of a "jack of all trades" type of character, while others are strong and weak in more specific areas to fit within their character designs.

3) what's your intention with Smash? Is it just to play more casually with friends and play a character you really enjoy and settle on him or her? Or do you want to eventually enter the competitive smash scene? It's still very possible to play a low or mid tier character as a solo main up until very high levels of play, but if this is your goal and you eventually reach this upper echelon of player skill, you'll either want to pick the path of least resistance and choose a high/top tier that suits your playstyle to make getting results relatively easy (assuming the proper mentality and time has been put in) or have a co-main/secondary that covers your low/mid tier main's bad MUs.

This is all pretty general, but hopefully it provides a framework for you to get the gears turning in your head about what you want to get out of your character in the long run. As time goes on, the character you decide to main will be someone you identify yourself with to some degree in your free time while you're playing, so overall, I think it's more important to trust your instinct and play whoever you click with the most. Enjoying who you play as will pay off in dividends as far as your willingness to invest time into self-improvement as a player while still having fun with the game more often than not, particularly when the vast majority of smash players do not wish to become PGR level players where tier lists and match up spreads become a greater concern.
1. Yeah, Ultimate is my first competitive experience in general actually. I'd say I have decent fundamentals but I'm not really sure where I'm at, progress-wise.
2. I like being able to do both, be aggressive and defensive. Sometimes I mash a bit so having an option to play patiently and defensively really helps me.
3. My intention is Smash is to be competitive eventually, mainly out of love for the game. I'm not bothered if I end up maining a low/mid/high tier because I realise I can get good with whoever I play.
 

DougEfresh

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
196
1. Yeah, Ultimate is my first competitive experience in general actually. I'd say I have decent fundamentals but I'm not really sure where I'm at, progress-wise.
2. I like being able to do both, be aggressive and defensive. Sometimes I mash a bit so having an option to play patiently and defensively really helps me.
3. My intention is Smash is to be competitive eventually, mainly out of love for the game. I'm not bothered if I end up maining a low/mid/high tier because I realise I can get good with whoever I play.
Maybe a swordie would be a good choice for you, then. :ultcloud: and :ultshulk: come to mind specifically for me based off these answers.

Cloud has pretty good mobility, long range, good buttons, and can play more defensively by using blade beam and charging limit (his recovery can be problematic though, so you need to be good at mixing that up and being sure to have limit on deck as a recovery resource if you get knocked far off stage). Overall, a solid high tier character. May require a secondary for a few MUs, though I'm uncertain which of his would be good for a CP character (I imagine characters like Pika who can edgeguard really well are a nightmare for him though).

Shulk is quite a bit more demanding by comparison due to the learning curve involved in using/managing his monado arts with much slower frame data than most of the cast, but he has great range and edgeguarding. A lot of people simply don't know how to counter him well because of his big hitboxes and he's a rare character due to his high skill floor and ceiling. He's a time investment, but a fun and great character if you're willing to be patient about seeing tangible skill improvements and results. I'd put Shulk at top of high tier/bottom of top tier who's solo viable, but you're free to play another character alongside him if you want.
 
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rigmac97

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 18, 2020
Messages
12
The idea of getting used to a main can be difficult in competitive play since the main goal is to win the damn match, at least for me it's that way. In all honestly, I found my mains in playing free for all matches with my friends and family. I would kick their ass hard that it would give me the confidence to try out those characters in competitive play. It makes the whole experience more enjoyable since I don't have the negative stigma of winning all the time, but rather to have fun with it. This list will help you make a better decision on what characters are best played in an FFA mode. https://www.gamersdecide.com/articles/smash-ultimate-best-ffa-characters
 

StrangeKitten

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 25, 2020
Messages
1,395
Location
Pokemon Stadium 2
The idea of getting used to a main can be difficult in competitive play since the main goal is to win the damn match, at least for me it's that way. In all honestly, I found my mains in playing free for all matches with my friends and family. I would kick their ass hard that it would give me the confidence to try out those characters in competitive play. It makes the whole experience more enjoyable since I don't have the negative stigma of winning all the time, but rather to have fun with it. This list will help you make a better decision on what characters are best played in an FFA mode. https://www.gamersdecide.com/articles/smash-ultimate-best-ffa-characters
How you play FFAs has a big impact on which characters are good. If you're playing them in stockless time matches, Ganondorf and Ike would definitely be some of the strongest. I tend to just play em with my singles ruleset on, which is three stock and seven minutes. This makes survival very important, so I've found I like K Rool best for this type of FFA. He lives as long as Bowser, with a recovery that is better in a chaotic setting. He can cheese with belly armor at times, and has the good kill power expected of a heavy. And what makes him better than Bowser in this format, at least in my opinion, is he can just retreat to the sides of the stage and throw projectiles to rack easy damage onto everyone else.
 

Keeshu

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
761
Location
Lurking in the darkness.....
After all this time and I'm still having massive problems sticking to a main since I love playing literally every character in the roster. I'm not sure how to keep myself from swapping characters since I always will try to stick with someone for a while, then have overwhelming regret I didn't try someone else out until it gets so strong that I just swap characters. I'm trying to avoid a repeat of Smash 4 where I just kept playing all the characters so I understood what they all wanted very well so it was easy to read opponents, but my inputs were sloppy because I never spent enough time on anyone to make my inputs better. So I need to have a main, even if it's for just one year.

Any tips?
 

Janx_uwu

Smash Ace
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
996
Location
Kingdom Valley
After all this time and I'm still having massive problems sticking to a main since I love playing literally every character in the roster. I'm not sure how to keep myself from swapping characters since I always will try to stick with someone for a while, then have overwhelming regret I didn't try someone else out until it gets so strong that I just swap characters. I'm trying to avoid a repeat of Smash 4 where I just kept playing all the characters so I understood what they all wanted very well so it was easy to read opponents, but my inputs were sloppy because I never spent enough time on anyone to make my inputs better. So I need to have a main, even if it's for just one year.

Any tips?
Well, it's good you've played so many characters. Having an idea of what each character does is a good first step. One tip I always give to people is to figure out what you want across all characters and find someone that does almost all of that. Maybe you like Toon Link's run speed, Snake's careful projectile game, Sonic's burst options, Bowser's kill potential, and Game and Watch's great OOS up b. If this sounds like you then Banjo and Kazooie would be a good choice. In fact, sometimes people just post whatever qualities they like in a character here, like recovery and air speed and combo game and whatnot, and we give them tips on who has most of those qualities.
If you want tips on how to play one character for a long amount of time...well, it's difficult to do that unless the character is your main. So come back with a list of what you like in a character, your playstyle, and anything else you think might be helpful. I'll do my best to help you out.
 

Keeshu

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
761
Location
Lurking in the darkness.....
If you want tips on how to play one character for a long amount of time...well, it's difficult to do that unless the character is your main. So come back with a list of what you like in a character, your playstyle, and anything else you think might be helpful. I'll do my best to help you out.
That's the problem. I like a lot of things about literally every character in the roster. Hence why it's so hard to stick to one character. I still need a main to push a character past it's normal limits though, and then when I'm used to doing that with one character, I can do it with other characters at a much faster pace.

I can love super fast game play with combos everywhere like Sheik, but I also love the opposite where it's Ganondorf where you don't throw out many attacks, but every single attack you make is important, and you have to be very careful about your movement. Sometimes I just prefer something in the middle.
I love playing small characters like Pichu, but I also love playing big characters like Ridley. Once again sometimes I prefer something in the middle.
Sometimes I like having all the projectiles possible with the Links or Duck hunt, Other times I prefer not to bother with projectiles at all like with Meta Knight or Marth. Other times I just want to have a projectile just in case I want to use it, but it doesn't need to be used all the time like the Pits
Sometimes I like a gimmicky characters like Ice Climbers or Little Mac. Other times I want characters that are a bit more "normal" like Mario.

I have no idea how to determine my playstyle as it changes constantly all the time depending on the character I'm using, the character the opponent is using, the player I'm facing, and how I'm feeling that day. Most of my wins come from just countering whatever the opponent is doing, sometimes switching characters makes it much easier to win even if I don't normally use that character.
 

Janx_uwu

Smash Ace
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
996
Location
Kingdom Valley
Well, to me it just sounds like you're pretty good at the game. If you can effortlessly switch between characters like that, that's an amazing skill.
So I guess I'm not sure what to tell you. I have the exact opposite experience with Smash, where I can only do good with two characters, and my secondary isn't even that good compared to my main in terms of how I've harnessed them. So I'm really not sure what to tell you.

I really hope you figure this out. I'll leave it up to someone else in this thread to help you out, because I'm sorry, but I really have no clue. I guess we could play friendlies sometime, that might help me think of something, but I really don't know.
 

Keeshu

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
761
Location
Lurking in the darkness.....
Well, to me it just sounds like you're pretty good at the game. If you can effortlessly switch between characters like that, that's an amazing skill.
So I guess I'm not sure what to tell you. I have the exact opposite experience with Smash, where I can only do good with two characters, and my secondary isn't even that good compared to my main in terms of how I've harnessed them. So I'm really not sure what to tell you.

I really hope you figure this out. I'll leave it up to someone else in this thread to help you out, because I'm sorry, but I really have no clue. I guess we could play friendlies sometime, that might help me think of something, but I really don't know.
I am pretty good at the game. I'm basically at the part where I'll destroy anyone that's not as good as me, but be demolished by people that live and breathe the game, so it's incredibly hard to find someone of similar skill level now. Which can make playing Smash very frustrating sometimes since I can only be entertained with casual matches for a short period of time before I need to play more competitively or switch games. So it's either improve a ton, or not even bother with the game at this point. I'll improve too slowly if I continue to divide my attention among the whole roster, so I have to put it all into one character so improvements will come swiftly.

Switching between playstyles like that is probably just something left over when when I played video games all day everyday, so picking up and mastering every playstyle a game gave to me and then continuing onto a new game was just a normal thing for me. So it's pretty easy to pick up new styles, and to borrow strategies from other styles to suit whatever I need on the fly. This carries me throughout most game genres, but fighting games require fast precise inputs that are more difficult than other genres. This is one of the reasons why I'm considering maining :ultfox:Fox in 2021... Others being someone asked me to (but someone also asked me to main :ultzelda:Zelda. Some people miss my :ultmetaknight:Meta Knight and I do plan to get better with him later on, and other people just call me a :ultridley:Ridley main for some reason despite usually only playing him casually). Also, Fox was the original character I wanted to main in Melee and I still haven't given him the proper attention because I got distracted looking at other characters and it's been 19 years! Would be nice to main him for a 20th anniversary with the series. However, even though I plan to do that, there's a very high chance I may want to swap back to :ultlucario:Lucario because I was training with him earlier this year and is a character that you see a huge change in speed when your inputs are faster since he's rather slowish normally. Maybe swapping to :ultsheik:Sheik because Sheik is also a very fast input heavy character. There's many other characters all with their own unique stories to make me want to try to main them as well that I could mention, but you get the point.

Thanks for attempting to help anyways!
 

StrangeKitten

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 25, 2020
Messages
1,395
Location
Pokemon Stadium 2
I am pretty good at the game. I'm basically at the part where I'll destroy anyone that's not as good as me, but be demolished by people that live and breathe the game, so it's incredibly hard to find someone of similar skill level now. Which can make playing Smash very frustrating sometimes since I can only be entertained with casual matches for a short period of time before I need to play more competitively or switch games. So it's either improve a ton, or not even bother with the game at this point. I'll improve too slowly if I continue to divide my attention among the whole roster, so I have to put it all into one character so improvements will come swiftly.

Switching between playstyles like that is probably just something left over when when I played video games all day everyday, so picking up and mastering every playstyle a game gave to me and then continuing onto a new game was just a normal thing for me. So it's pretty easy to pick up new styles, and to borrow strategies from other styles to suit whatever I need on the fly. This carries me throughout most game genres, but fighting games require fast precise inputs that are more difficult than other genres. This is one of the reasons why I'm considering maining :ultfox:Fox in 2021... Others being someone asked me to (but someone also asked me to main :ultzelda:Zelda. Some people miss my :ultmetaknight:Meta Knight and I do plan to get better with him later on, and other people just call me a :ultridley:Ridley main for some reason despite usually only playing him casually). Also, Fox was the original character I wanted to main in Melee and I still haven't given him the proper attention because I got distracted looking at other characters and it's been 19 years! Would be nice to main him for a 20th anniversary with the series. However, even though I plan to do that, there's a very high chance I may want to swap back to :ultlucario:Lucario because I was training with him earlier this year and is a character that you see a huge change in speed when your inputs are faster since he's rather slowish normally. Maybe swapping to :ultsheik:Sheik because Sheik is also a very fast input heavy character. There's many other characters all with their own unique stories to make me want to try to main them as well that I could mention, but you get the point.

Thanks for attempting to help anyways!
I enjoy playing a lot of characters! What I do is, I practice using 5-character Squad Strike vs CPUs. While it's not the best practice in the world, since even level 9s are suboptimal with their characters most of the time, it allows me to keep selecting my mains while also working on others. Additionally, I set the CPUs to random, so I gain experience at fighting a lot of characters that you won't see much online otherwise (such as Duck Hunt). It also keeps me sharp on the offline timing of things, since online is practically a different game entirely. So yeah, I recommend 5-character Squad Strike for you. Keep selecting Fox, then select any others you feel like working on :)
 

Keeshu

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
761
Location
Lurking in the darkness.....
I enjoy playing a lot of characters! What I do is, I practice using 5-character Squad Strike vs CPUs. While it's not the best practice in the world, since even level 9s are suboptimal with their characters most of the time, it allows me to keep selecting my mains while also working on others. Additionally, I set the CPUs to random, so I gain experience at fighting a lot of characters that you won't see much online otherwise (such as Duck Hunt). It also keeps me sharp on the offline timing of things, since online is practically a different game entirely. So yeah, I recommend 5-character Squad Strike for you. Keep selecting Fox, then select any others you feel like working on :)
I wish Squad Strike was online. It was the feature I was the most hyped for when Ultimate was coming out because it would have been my default game mode (Hopefully it if ever happens we also get to do that in teams as well). Finding out I can't use it because it's local only disappointed me so hard. It's like since they have such a huge emphasis on a huge roster, why not let us use more of it more easily so we can get hooked more easily?
Venting aside, I might do that from time to time, but I don't plan to play offline ever. No one in my town plays smash, and it's hard to even find someone that has a switch. Not exactly the type of person that'd go to IRL tournaments either. With that said, I suppose offline practice against CPUs might be better feedback for my inputs than online where input delay can vary.

I'm still unsure if I want to main Fox. I have come up with some reasons to main him, but I can easily do that for other characters. So it's still likely for me to swap characters since the reasons for maining Fox are comparable to reasons for maining other characters. I'm mostly worried about stopping with a character after one month.
I do worry about picking the wrong kind of character when it comes to inputs. Too fast, and I might get overwhelmed and my fingers won't comprehend what is happening, but they get lots of practice. Too slow, and my fingers might not get enough practice, but every input is deliberate. Somewhere in the middle might be leaning to one side too much without realizing it. Trying to swap characters overtime would inevitably lead me to changing too frequently when I shouldn't.

Whatever the case is, I'll be spending the next couple months trying to make an in-depth analysis on what I like/dislike about every character so I can hopefully prevent myself from swapping characters in 2021 and know which characters would be at the top of the list to try in 2022 when I've better from maining someone in 2021.

Some characters I'm considering for 2021 at this very moment but could change:
:ultmario: 1 Mario - Basic all rounder that has something for everything. No loyalty to the character at all though, and unsure if he's too slow or too basic.
:ultlink: 3 Link - :4link:Smash 4 Link helped me realize the importance of short hops along with being the only character with 90% fast fall speed making me fast fall more often. Smash Ultimate him and Joker are the only ones with 90% fast fall speed that I know of. Also his bombs allow for zair drop combos which can be pretty input intensive. He also has reasons to use b-reversing as well. Main problems for him is that it can be easy to rely on projectiles to not do the input intensive actions. :ultyounglink: Young Link is also a consideration bececause he is more consistently speeding up everything else, but at the cost of no zair drop combos which can be good or bad.
:ultfox: 7 Fox - Simplistic, but can be complex, making it easy to stick with him and improve over time. Was the original character I was going to main, so would make a great 20th anniversary main. Also would make transitioning in Melee easier if I were play that game again. However, I have no loyalty to him outside of smash and I like Wolf more in general.
:ultpikachu::ultpichu: 8 Pikachu + 19 Pichu - Fast and heavy reliance on combos. Along with emphasis on being aware of how high/low opponent attacks go since they are small. The only big thing against them is that quick attack can just nullify some of the unique advantages that some characters have, and it's almost a free recovery. I'm more biased towards Pichu because I love a good underdog character, and I love glass cannons. Also the self harm mechanic makes me choose my moves and when I attack more carefully.
:ultfalcon: 11 Captain Falcon - He seems to be a pretty solid character for getting better with inputs and reading the opponent. I've always viewed him as the face of Smash, so what better character to improve with than that? Only real downsides is that he doesn't really seem to have any mixup options for recovery..... Also sometimes I might be tempted to play casually because it's just so fun to punish low to mid level players by spamming falcon punch and seeing how much I can get away with that.
:ulticeclimbers: 15 Ice Climbers - I want to get better at speeding up my fingers for inputs. Controlling two characters would probably be very good for that. Also gets me used to looking at multiple places on the screen. Ice Climbers look friggin awesome when they played well too. With that said, Ice Climbers might be a bit too unique for some of the stuff I pick up with them to go to other characters. Also, while I maybe the only person in my town to have played Ice Climber on the NES, I don't have loyalty to the characters outside of smash which can be a problem to stay with them.
:ultsheik: 16 Sheik - When I look at all the characters in the roster, Sheik is the character I look at and see being rewarded for good inputs the most. There's a few characters that come close though. Only problem with Sheik is I don't know if they'll return for Smash 6, and if I don't improve enough with Sheik, I'll blame myself more harshly compared to other characters, which may make me more likely to quit smash competitively. However double edged sword, if I improve with Sheik fast enough, I'll probably feel better about myself and be more likely to be diehard about loving smash competitively.
:ultfalco: 20 Falco - Similar to Fox. However I don't know him all that well compared to the other spacies, so I don't know how well he could help with inputs. He just keeps changing every game.
:ultmarth::ultroy: 21 Marth + 25 Roy - Marth was my Melee main, which is probably why my spacing is so good with many characters since the tipper is so important. I could go back to him and master the other things about him that my newbie Melee self could not even perform. However I'm tempted to play Roy because he is just more interesting to me due to him being faster, and seeming more combo focused which could lead to more input practice. Also Roy could teach me how to be a bit more aggressive when I'm unsure about what to do, since a lot of the time I'll back off when I don't know, which can make me predictable.
:ultdarkpit: 28 Dark Pit (and maybe Pit too) - First character I've gotten into Elite Smash. Seems to have a bit of everything. Only problem is that they are a bit slow. However that would just be a bigger emphasis on proper inputs.
:ultzss: 29 Zero Suit Samus - I tend to like to watch the opponent's movements when I don't know what to do at all, ZSS is one of the characters that allows me to do that, but she also is fast and has an emphasis on combos, and uses b-reverses quite a bit. Only worried she might be too good and not seen enough leading to some easy wins, making it harder to want to improve.
:ultsonic:38 Sonic - Similar to ZSS in a lot of ways, and b-reversing usage is a bit more specific. However it'll be easier to stick with Sonic since if there's any 3rd party that will stay, it's gotta be him. Lots of nostalgia with the character so it'll be easy to want to play him over some others.
:ultlucario:41 Lucario - Going to be chilling in VRChat as a Lucario while I record myself training, perhaps talking with friends while I play. Would be appropriate if I was playing Lucario. Also Lucario shows a huge difference in speed when you add short hops and b-reverses, which are things most characters in the roster can use. Since there's a huge difference, there's a big reason to continue doing those things compared to most characters. Got some special nostalgia for him that will always give me a reason to main him. However since he is slow normally, I wonder if I need a faster character to improve more.
:ultwolf:44 Wolf - My favorite of the spacies. Simple to start, but hard to master like Fox. However I worry he might be a bit too simple to do well with, making it hard to not try to improve.
:ultgreninja:50 Greninja - Feels like the speed of Sheik, however it feel like you can't just throw things out and you'll hit the opponent like Sheik. It feels like everything has to be planned ahead of time to hit people with Greninja. So while he may not press as many buttons as Sheik, he feels a lot more deliberate while still being quite fast. Only problem is that I have no character loyalty for them at all, making it more difficult to stay with them.
:ultbrawler:51 Mii Brawler - I'll be honest I don't know enough about the Miis since I don't usually see people play them seriously. Brawler seems to be quite fast and has a few combos though. So there is some potential. No loyalty to the character, but ya know, if I had a character to dress them up as, I might be able to. All the miis have really friggin fun gameplay though.
:ultryu::ultken:60 Ryu + Ken - Practicing inputs? Ryu and Ken have a lot of those, and would help transition me to Street Fighter if I ever get into that game. However, they have a unique problem where they have heavy+light attacks, so c-stick usage only seems to ever do one type. Getting used to doing tilts normally may limit what I can do with the rest of the roster when I would use c-stick for other characters.
:ultinklingboy:64 Inkling - Another speedy combo character that is fun to play with. A bit of nostalgia along with being in a discord primarily for Splatoon, but also some of the best and most frequent smashers I've played with. Main concern being their recovery is rather free, and I hear that inkling may rely on bair a bit too much.... Also roller is probably too easy to streamroll lower level players with.
:ultjoker:71 Joker - If I was designing a character for smash for my first time, Joker is very close to what I would've come up with.... Except Joker is stronger, and he also has the Arsene mechanic as well which is pretty ridiculous, and I thought 90% fast fall speed was supposed to be unique to Link. Also Joker looks really cool, and would be easy to main despite never playing Persona. Based on my time I've spent with Joker so far, my biggest fear is that Joker is a bit too easy to do very well with.
:ult_terry:74 Terry - Ryu/Ken but easy mode. Still heavy emphasis on inputs, but just not as insane. If I'm having a bad day I can still do well. However, better inputs make him better so it works out.
 

wizfoot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 12, 2020
Messages
78
Location
Hyrule
Switch FC
SW 7677-1915-7484
Any ideas on a good secondary for Ganon? Sephiroth's novelty is starting to wear down on me and I'm looking to pick up a secondary so I can potentially get into the online scene. I've tried Peach/Daisy, Fox, Sephiroth, Zelda, and Sheik. I'm not a fan of rushdown-style gameplay and more on precise moves that have good kill potential and still deal heavy damage. I'm not a good spacer, so maybe no swordies except for Lucina. Robin's also a bit of good fun and was my main for a bit in Sm4sh.
 

Djinh

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Messages
3
Hey guys,

I've literally just picked up smash ultimate last week, and don't really have a good background from any other smash games, so my technical skills are pretty garbage. I feel like a need a bit of a forgiving character to get me started before i develop any decent muscle memory. Any suggestions?
 

Keeshu

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
761
Location
Lurking in the darkness.....
Hey guys,

I've literally just picked up smash ultimate last week, and don't really have a good background from any other smash games, so my technical skills are pretty garbage. I feel like a need a bit of a forgiving character to get me started before i develop any decent muscle memory. Any suggestions?
Here are my thoughts on beginner characters. Don't not feel that you must be locked into these characters though. Having fun with the game and the characters you are playing are far more important so you will play more, and thus get more practice. Also everyone is different, and some people will recommend other characters too. I mean I kinda wanted to mention a bunch of other characters for various reasons, but I'm a bit short on time atm.
:ultmario:You can't go wrong with Mario. His gameplay style is like Smash in a nutshell, but very basic, yet somehow versatile. He's got fireball to teach projectile play. He has a cape so he can deal with projectile campers if timed properly. His up airs are a very easy way to combo to get people hooked on combos. Only problem I see with Mario for beginners is that his short range and recovery as it's a double edged sword. On one side, it thoroughly teaches players how to deal with people with longer ranges, and exploit slow attacks, but on the other side if too many opponents that just outrange Mario too frequently and it can annoy the player too much.
:ultlucina:Lucina - If you're interested in swords, Lucina is the most basic of sword characters. No matter who you ever plan to main in the game, Lucina is one of the most recommended characters to secondary due to her simplicity, and because she's a pretty good character.
:ultike:Ike - Another basic swordsman, but he is slower but hits harder than Lucina. Higher reward, but more punishing if you mess up. Personally, if I take a long break from smash, I use Ike to get back into the competitive mindset because he's so basic that you'll focus on what the opponent is doing, which is what you should be doing, but Ike kinda forces you to do that.
:ultdarkpit:Dark Pit/Pit - I suggest Dark Pit more because Pit's arrows are hard to control and don't do as much damage, so when you're trying to learn game, Dark Pit has a more basic game plan. The Pits are very simplistic as well, but don't have anything super crazy about them. Combos are a little hard to do with them compared to Mario, but their recovery is much easier and covers more distance along with multi-jumps, so less likely to give up once sent off the stage.
:ultvillager::ultisabelle: - For a more projectile minded players. Originally I thought this was a bad pick, but there is a strong difference between tilts and smash attacks. The up+B recovery goes incredibly far. The character is a bit on the slowish side so you will have a bit easier time controlling them. Good for just learning controls.
:ultkirby: - Kirby is forgiving with his multiple jumps, and his up tilts and up airs allow for easy combos. Also at low levels of play, down+B is kind of a meme because its very effective at attacking people that aren't used to the game due to it having armor, and being somewhat fast. Just don't get tempted by down+B too much, since people that play the game much at all will know how to exploit it easily.


Any ideas on a good secondary for Ganon? Sephiroth's novelty is starting to wear down on me and I'm looking to pick up a secondary so I can potentially get into the online scene. I've tried Peach/Daisy, Fox, Sephiroth, Zelda, and Sheik. I'm not a fan of rushdown-style gameplay and more on precise moves that have good kill potential and still deal heavy damage. I'm not a good spacer, so maybe no swordies except for Lucina. Robin's also a bit of good fun and was my main for a bit in Sm4sh.
I'm in a rambley mode, so I apologize for the wall of text :3
Ganondorf has a losing matchup with most of the cast, so it's interesting to find a secondary for him. I'm kinda curious why you want a secondary for Ganondorf because it feels like his whole thing is outplaying the opponent for massive damage in just a couple hits despite being at a disadvantage. While some people need a secondary, other people don't really need a secondary, make sure you have good reasons for picking one up. Couple examples: Having a secondary can make you consider more options even when you're playing your main, but allows you to combat matchups you previous couldn't. On the flip side, sometimes having a secondary can allow you to run away from a problem, instead of figuring out a way to work around it and improve yourself.
Also, I heavily suggest asking the Ganondorf discord. They'll know the struggles of being a Ganondorf main more than anyone else.

WIth that said, to help narrow things down, ask these questions:
"What characters do I struggle with when playing Ganondorf?"
I suggest making a matchup chart to take a look at the characters you struggle with the most, and try to figure out why those characters give you such trouble. People play their characters different, so I suggest not looking at other people's opinions on who Ganondorf struggles with, because their struggles maybe completely different to your struggles because everyone adapts differently. After looking at this, you can look at the characters you struggle with and pick a secondary to cover as many matchups as you can.
"What playstyles do I struggle with when playing Ganondorf?"
Sometimes it's a certain type of player that is countering you. Many other people can pick up that same character and get destroyed by you, but sometimes it's just the way how someone plays that counters you too hard, and Ganondorf may not have the tools to counter them back with how you play the game. After noticing how people have been countering you, it should be easier to find a secondary that can help counter their playstyle(s).
"What other characters are still fun to play that aren't Ganondorf?"
If you aren't having fun with the character, that is a very large roadblock to playing that character. Everyone feels bad playing a character for one reason or another eventually, but if you're actively feeling miserable playing someone, you're going to struggle to focus on improving with the character. Sometimes you can push through and enjoy something new, but a lot of the time it's probably not worth the effort when there's already a character that fits what you want and is ready to go.
"What characters overlap too much with Ganondorf?"
If you pick a character that is too similar to Ganondorf, you're just going to run into the same problems... As much as I like the idea of someone doing Ganondorf main and Incineroar secondary (who I view as Brawl/Smash 4 Ganondorf spiritual successor since Ultimate Ganondorf is so fast and huge now), it's probably not a good idea because they'll both suffer from the same matchups due to lack of speed, and at that point what was the reason for having the secondary in the first place? Having a character with a completely different playstyle can also think about how to use your main in different ways as well.

" I'm not a fan of rushdown-style gameplay and more on precise moves that have good kill potential and still deal heavy damage."
The typo is really confusing me here. Are you against precise moves that have good kill potential/heavy damage, or is that what you want? I assume the later because you main Ganondorf.

With all that said, I'm around mid to high level in skill, but I have played Ganondorf a bit, especially in Smash 4 (who feels very different from ultimate ganondorf). I'm going to have a different playstyle, but if I were to main Ganondorf and I were to pick a secondary, here are some of the characters I'd think of first. Hopefully one of them can stick out to you:
Young Link :ultyounglink: First character to come to mind because he's basically the opposite of Ganondorf. Lots of projectiles, some pretty nice frame data, can often use a sword in many of his attacks as a disjoint. Also unlike other speedy characters, he has an emphasis on using projectiles to get his combos, so the timing often doesn't seem as strict. Of course, if you want something similar but more power, there's always :ultlink: BOTW Link. However for higher levels of play his bomb gameplay makes him incredibly difficult to play if you want to optimize everything he has. :ulttoonlink: Toon Link is another option but I can't get the hang of him because he feels very limited compared to the other two, but of course he's much different to the Links I played in previous games, so perhaps I'm missing something. He feels like he has a huge emphasis on running away and camping the opponent compared to the other two.... Which probably would feel good if someone was camping you to oblivion when you're playing Ganondorf.

Banjo & Kazooie :ultbanjokazooie: Now this is a character I never play, or see people play. However on paper, they seems like a pretty nice fit for you. They are decently fast but doesn't have to mash on opponents like a rushdown character has to. They have some disjoints if there's a match that calls for disjoints, and they can camp with projectiles if you want. They have a few pretty strong hits as well, and Banjo basically has that Ganondorf forward air. He's pretty heavy (106 compared to Ganondorf's 118) as well so you won't be shocked to die super early like Young Link.

Belmonts :ultsimon::ultrichter: - When I play them, they feel kind of read based like Ganondorf. So yes, their projectiles cover a crazy amount of distance, and hit hard, but can be really punishable if the opponent knows which option your doing. Though they have a bunch of options so that can be tricky to do. This is one I feel the least confident on based on just how these characters are, and how like Ganondorf, if someone gets in on them, they just get destroyed.
Snake :ultsnake: - Snake plays uniquely, but he can shut down a lot of playstyles with his grenades since it can stop zoners from using certain projectiles, and frame 1 grenade means rush down characters can't mash on you. All while you can still have those moments where you get a meaty strong attack like you do with Ganondorf. Problem is if you can handle grenades. I've never had a problem playing or fighting snakes because I don't get overwhelmed by grenades, but most players seem to struggle with grenades.
Mr. Game & Watch :ultgnw: - Zoners should not be a problem because of your bucket. Rushdown characters will have troubles because of up+B out of shield, or just breaking combos. Mr. Game & Watch hits really friggin hard as well. Just gotta be careful for swordies (which I don't have problem with whenever I play Ganondorf, hopefully you're the same).

Good luck to you. I hope you enjoyed my ramble =p
 

Djinh

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Messages
3
Here are my thoughts on beginner characters. Don't not feel that you must be locked into these characters though. Having fun with the game and the characters you are playing are far more important so you will play more, and thus get more practice. Also everyone is different, and some people will recommend other characters too. I mean I kinda wanted to mention a bunch of other characters for various reasons, but I'm a bit short on time atm.
:ultmario:You can't go wrong with Mario. His gameplay style is like Smash in a nutshell, but very basic, yet somehow versatile. He's got fireball to teach projectile play. He has a cape so he can deal with projectile campers if timed properly. His up airs are a very easy way to combo to get people hooked on combos. Only problem I see with Mario for beginners is that his short range and recovery as it's a double edged sword. On one side, it thoroughly teaches players how to deal with people with longer ranges, and exploit slow attacks, but on the other side if too many opponents that just outrange Mario too frequently and it can annoy the player too much.
:ultlucina:Lucina - If you're interested in swords, Lucina is the most basic of sword characters. No matter who you ever plan to main in the game, Lucina is one of the most recommended characters to secondary due to her simplicity, and because she's a pretty good character.
:ultike:Ike - Another basic swordsman, but he is slower but hits harder than Lucina. Higher reward, but more punishing if you mess up. Personally, if I take a long break from smash, I use Ike to get back into the competitive mindset because he's so basic that you'll focus on what the opponent is doing, which is what you should be doing, but Ike kinda forces you to do that.
:ultdarkpit:Dark Pit/Pit - I suggest Dark Pit more because Pit's arrows are hard to control and don't do as much damage, so when you're trying to learn game, Dark Pit has a more basic game plan. The Pits are very simplistic as well, but don't have anything super crazy about them. Combos are a little hard to do with them compared to Mario, but their recovery is much easier and covers more distance along with multi-jumps, so less likely to give up once sent off the stage.
:ultvillager::ultisabelle: - For a more projectile minded players. Originally I thought this was a bad pick, but there is a strong difference between tilts and smash attacks. The up+B recovery goes incredibly far. The character is a bit on the slowish side so you will have a bit easier time controlling them. Good for just learning controls.
:ultkirby: - Kirby is forgiving with his multiple jumps, and his up tilts and up airs allow for easy combos. Also at low levels of play, down+B is kind of a meme because its very effective at attacking people that aren't used to the game due to it having armor, and being somewhat fast. Just don't get tempted by down+B too much, since people that play the game much at all will know how to exploit it easily.



I'm in a rambley mode, so I apologize for the wall of text :3
Ganondorf has a losing matchup with most of the cast, so it's interesting to find a secondary for him. I'm kinda curious why you want a secondary for Ganondorf because it feels like his whole thing is outplaying the opponent for massive damage in just a couple hits despite being at a disadvantage. While some people need a secondary, other people don't really need a secondary, make sure you have good reasons for picking one up. Couple examples: Having a secondary can make you consider more options even when you're playing your main, but allows you to combat matchups you previous couldn't. On the flip side, sometimes having a secondary can allow you to run away from a problem, instead of figuring out a way to work around it and improve yourself.
Also, I heavily suggest asking the Ganondorf discord. They'll know the struggles of being a Ganondorf main more than anyone else.

WIth that said, to help narrow things down, ask these questions:
"What characters do I struggle with when playing Ganondorf?"
I suggest making a matchup chart to take a look at the characters you struggle with the most, and try to figure out why those characters give you such trouble. People play their characters different, so I suggest not looking at other people's opinions on who Ganondorf struggles with, because their struggles maybe completely different to your struggles because everyone adapts differently. After looking at this, you can look at the characters you struggle with and pick a secondary to cover as many matchups as you can.
"What playstyles do I struggle with when playing Ganondorf?"
Sometimes it's a certain type of player that is countering you. Many other people can pick up that same character and get destroyed by you, but sometimes it's just the way how someone plays that counters you too hard, and Ganondorf may not have the tools to counter them back with how you play the game. After noticing how people have been countering you, it should be easier to find a secondary that can help counter their playstyle(s).
"What other characters are still fun to play that aren't Ganondorf?"
If you aren't having fun with the character, that is a very large roadblock to playing that character. Everyone feels bad playing a character for one reason or another eventually, but if you're actively feeling miserable playing someone, you're going to struggle to focus on improving with the character. Sometimes you can push through and enjoy something new, but a lot of the time it's probably not worth the effort when there's already a character that fits what you want and is ready to go.
"What characters overlap too much with Ganondorf?"
If you pick a character that is too similar to Ganondorf, you're just going to run into the same problems... As much as I like the idea of someone doing Ganondorf main and Incineroar secondary (who I view as Brawl/Smash 4 Ganondorf spiritual successor since Ultimate Ganondorf is so fast and huge now), it's probably not a good idea because they'll both suffer from the same matchups due to lack of speed, and at that point what was the reason for having the secondary in the first place? Having a character with a completely different playstyle can also think about how to use your main in different ways as well.

" I'm not a fan of rushdown-style gameplay and more on precise moves that have good kill potential and still deal heavy damage."
The typo is really confusing me here. Are you against precise moves that have good kill potential/heavy damage, or is that what you want? I assume the later because you main Ganondorf.

With all that said, I'm around mid to high level in skill, but I have played Ganondorf a bit, especially in Smash 4 (who feels very different from ultimate ganondorf). I'm going to have a different playstyle, but if I were to main Ganondorf and I were to pick a secondary, here are some of the characters I'd think of first. Hopefully one of them can stick out to you:
Young Link :ultyounglink: First character to come to mind because he's basically the opposite of Ganondorf. Lots of projectiles, some pretty nice frame data, can often use a sword in many of his attacks as a disjoint. Also unlike other speedy characters, he has an emphasis on using projectiles to get his combos, so the timing often doesn't seem as strict. Of course, if you want something similar but more power, there's always :ultlink: BOTW Link. However for higher levels of play his bomb gameplay makes him incredibly difficult to play if you want to optimize everything he has. :ulttoonlink: Toon Link is another option but I can't get the hang of him because he feels very limited compared to the other two, but of course he's much different to the Links I played in previous games, so perhaps I'm missing something. He feels like he has a huge emphasis on running away and camping the opponent compared to the other two.... Which probably would feel good if someone was camping you to oblivion when you're playing Ganondorf.

Banjo & Kazooie :ultbanjokazooie: Now this is a character I never play, or see people play. However on paper, they seems like a pretty nice fit for you. They are decently fast but doesn't have to mash on opponents like a rushdown character has to. They have some disjoints if there's a match that calls for disjoints, and they can camp with projectiles if you want. They have a few pretty strong hits as well, and Banjo basically has that Ganondorf forward air. He's pretty heavy (106 compared to Ganondorf's 118) as well so you won't be shocked to die super early like Young Link.

Belmonts :ultsimon::ultrichter: - When I play them, they feel kind of read based like Ganondorf. So yes, their projectiles cover a crazy amount of distance, and hit hard, but can be really punishable if the opponent knows which option your doing. Though they have a bunch of options so that can be tricky to do. This is one I feel the least confident on based on just how these characters are, and how like Ganondorf, if someone gets in on them, they just get destroyed.
Snake :ultsnake: - Snake plays uniquely, but he can shut down a lot of playstyles with his grenades since it can stop zoners from using certain projectiles, and frame 1 grenade means rush down characters can't mash on you. All while you can still have those moments where you get a meaty strong attack like you do with Ganondorf. Problem is if you can handle grenades. I've never had a problem playing or fighting snakes because I don't get overwhelmed by grenades, but most players seem to struggle with grenades.
Mr. Game & Watch :ultgnw: - Zoners should not be a problem because of your bucket. Rushdown characters will have troubles because of up+B out of shield, or just breaking combos. Mr. Game & Watch hits really friggin hard as well. Just gotta be careful for swordies (which I don't have problem with whenever I play Ganondorf, hopefully you're the same).

Good luck to you. I hope you enjoyed my ramble =p
Thanks, I really appreciate your advice! I'll give them a go and see what I like :)
 

wizfoot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 12, 2020
Messages
78
Location
Hyrule
Switch FC
SW 7677-1915-7484
Here are my thoughts on beginner characters. Don't not feel that you must be locked into these characters though. Having fun with the game and the characters you are playing are far more important so you will play more, and thus get more practice. Also everyone is different, and some people will recommend other characters too. I mean I kinda wanted to mention a bunch of other characters for various reasons, but I'm a bit short on time atm.
:ultmario:You can't go wrong with Mario. His gameplay style is like Smash in a nutshell, but very basic, yet somehow versatile. He's got fireball to teach projectile play. He has a cape so he can deal with projectile campers if timed properly. His up airs are a very easy way to combo to get people hooked on combos. Only problem I see with Mario for beginners is that his short range and recovery as it's a double edged sword. On one side, it thoroughly teaches players how to deal with people with longer ranges, and exploit slow attacks, but on the other side if too many opponents that just outrange Mario too frequently and it can annoy the player too much.
:ultlucina:Lucina - If you're interested in swords, Lucina is the most basic of sword characters. No matter who you ever plan to main in the game, Lucina is one of the most recommended characters to secondary due to her simplicity, and because she's a pretty good character.
:ultike:Ike - Another basic swordsman, but he is slower but hits harder than Lucina. Higher reward, but more punishing if you mess up. Personally, if I take a long break from smash, I use Ike to get back into the competitive mindset because he's so basic that you'll focus on what the opponent is doing, which is what you should be doing, but Ike kinda forces you to do that.
:ultdarkpit:Dark Pit/Pit - I suggest Dark Pit more because Pit's arrows are hard to control and don't do as much damage, so when you're trying to learn game, Dark Pit has a more basic game plan. The Pits are very simplistic as well, but don't have anything super crazy about them. Combos are a little hard to do with them compared to Mario, but their recovery is much easier and covers more distance along with multi-jumps, so less likely to give up once sent off the stage.
:ultvillager::ultisabelle: - For a more projectile minded players. Originally I thought this was a bad pick, but there is a strong difference between tilts and smash attacks. The up+B recovery goes incredibly far. The character is a bit on the slowish side so you will have a bit easier time controlling them. Good for just learning controls.
:ultkirby: - Kirby is forgiving with his multiple jumps, and his up tilts and up airs allow for easy combos. Also at low levels of play, down+B is kind of a meme because its very effective at attacking people that aren't used to the game due to it having armor, and being somewhat fast. Just don't get tempted by down+B too much, since people that play the game much at all will know how to exploit it easily.



I'm in a rambley mode, so I apologize for the wall of text :3
Ganondorf has a losing matchup with most of the cast, so it's interesting to find a secondary for him. I'm kinda curious why you want a secondary for Ganondorf because it feels like his whole thing is outplaying the opponent for massive damage in just a couple hits despite being at a disadvantage. While some people need a secondary, other people don't really need a secondary, make sure you have good reasons for picking one up. Couple examples: Having a secondary can make you consider more options even when you're playing your main, but allows you to combat matchups you previous couldn't. On the flip side, sometimes having a secondary can allow you to run away from a problem, instead of figuring out a way to work around it and improve yourself.
Also, I heavily suggest asking the Ganondorf discord. They'll know the struggles of being a Ganondorf main more than anyone else.

WIth that said, to help narrow things down, ask these questions:
"What characters do I struggle with when playing Ganondorf?"
I suggest making a matchup chart to take a look at the characters you struggle with the most, and try to figure out why those characters give you such trouble. People play their characters different, so I suggest not looking at other people's opinions on who Ganondorf struggles with, because their struggles maybe completely different to your struggles because everyone adapts differently. After looking at this, you can look at the characters you struggle with and pick a secondary to cover as many matchups as you can.
"What playstyles do I struggle with when playing Ganondorf?"
Sometimes it's a certain type of player that is countering you. Many other people can pick up that same character and get destroyed by you, but sometimes it's just the way how someone plays that counters you too hard, and Ganondorf may not have the tools to counter them back with how you play the game. After noticing how people have been countering you, it should be easier to find a secondary that can help counter their playstyle(s).
"What other characters are still fun to play that aren't Ganondorf?"
If you aren't having fun with the character, that is a very large roadblock to playing that character. Everyone feels bad playing a character for one reason or another eventually, but if you're actively feeling miserable playing someone, you're going to struggle to focus on improving with the character. Sometimes you can push through and enjoy something new, but a lot of the time it's probably not worth the effort when there's already a character that fits what you want and is ready to go.
"What characters overlap too much with Ganondorf?"
If you pick a character that is too similar to Ganondorf, you're just going to run into the same problems... As much as I like the idea of someone doing Ganondorf main and Incineroar secondary (who I view as Brawl/Smash 4 Ganondorf spiritual successor since Ultimate Ganondorf is so fast and huge now), it's probably not a good idea because they'll both suffer from the same matchups due to lack of speed, and at that point what was the reason for having the secondary in the first place? Having a character with a completely different playstyle can also think about how to use your main in different ways as well.

" I'm not a fan of rushdown-style gameplay and more on precise moves that have good kill potential and still deal heavy damage."
The typo is really confusing me here. Are you against precise moves that have good kill potential/heavy damage, or is that what you want? I assume the later because you main Ganondorf.

With all that said, I'm around mid to high level in skill, but I have played Ganondorf a bit, especially in Smash 4 (who feels very different from ultimate ganondorf). I'm going to have a different playstyle, but if I were to main Ganondorf and I were to pick a secondary, here are some of the characters I'd think of first. Hopefully one of them can stick out to you:
Young Link :ultyounglink: First character to come to mind because he's basically the opposite of Ganondorf. Lots of projectiles, some pretty nice frame data, can often use a sword in many of his attacks as a disjoint. Also unlike other speedy characters, he has an emphasis on using projectiles to get his combos, so the timing often doesn't seem as strict. Of course, if you want something similar but more power, there's always :ultlink: BOTW Link. However for higher levels of play his bomb gameplay makes him incredibly difficult to play if you want to optimize everything he has. :ulttoonlink: Toon Link is another option but I can't get the hang of him because he feels very limited compared to the other two, but of course he's much different to the Links I played in previous games, so perhaps I'm missing something. He feels like he has a huge emphasis on running away and camping the opponent compared to the other two.... Which probably would feel good if someone was camping you to oblivion when you're playing Ganondorf.

Banjo & Kazooie :ultbanjokazooie: Now this is a character I never play, or see people play. However on paper, they seems like a pretty nice fit for you. They are decently fast but doesn't have to mash on opponents like a rushdown character has to. They have some disjoints if there's a match that calls for disjoints, and they can camp with projectiles if you want. They have a few pretty strong hits as well, and Banjo basically has that Ganondorf forward air. He's pretty heavy (106 compared to Ganondorf's 118) as well so you won't be shocked to die super early like Young Link.

Belmonts :ultsimon::ultrichter: - When I play them, they feel kind of read based like Ganondorf. So yes, their projectiles cover a crazy amount of distance, and hit hard, but can be really punishable if the opponent knows which option your doing. Though they have a bunch of options so that can be tricky to do. This is one I feel the least confident on based on just how these characters are, and how like Ganondorf, if someone gets in on them, they just get destroyed.
Snake :ultsnake: - Snake plays uniquely, but he can shut down a lot of playstyles with his grenades since it can stop zoners from using certain projectiles, and frame 1 grenade means rush down characters can't mash on you. All while you can still have those moments where you get a meaty strong attack like you do with Ganondorf. Problem is if you can handle grenades. I've never had a problem playing or fighting snakes because I don't get overwhelmed by grenades, but most players seem to struggle with grenades.
Mr. Game & Watch :ultgnw: - Zoners should not be a problem because of your bucket. Rushdown characters will have troubles because of up+B out of shield, or just breaking combos. Mr. Game & Watch hits really friggin hard as well. Just gotta be careful for swordies (which I don't have problem with whenever I play Ganondorf, hopefully you're the same).

Good luck to you. I hope you enjoyed my ramble =p
I never thought about the Links, but it would be a pretty funny secondary to have. And yeah, that's what I meant by the typo.

G&W is also a really interesting choice. I've always thought he was fun to play. Thanks!
 

StrangeKitten

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 25, 2020
Messages
1,395
Location
Pokemon Stadium 2
I never thought about the Links, but it would be a pretty funny secondary to have. And yeah, that's what I meant by the typo.

G&W is also a really interesting choice. I've always thought he was fun to play. Thanks!
Echoing the advice that was given. I'd like to vouch for Young Link the most. He is the fastest of the recommended characters, as well as the best of the Links. I like to suggest characters that are more different than someone's main, because I think opting for the more different character not only teaches you the game more, but helps you learn the game better since you're doing different things. If Young Link's speed and combos end up not to your liking, GnW is a tad slower with easier combos. Or you could just secondary both. I don't think three characters are too many :)
 

1Jared1

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 31, 2021
Messages
1
I’ve been playing ultimate for a few months now, but I haven’t settled on a main yet. I like aggressive powerful characters a lot. Wario has been one of my faves, and I like ganon, cloud, and bowser too. But I’m open to recommendations from people who know the game better! (Been playing since melee, so I’m not new, but haven’t gotten serious till now)
 

Keeshu

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
761
Location
Lurking in the darkness.....
I’ve been playing ultimate for a few months now, but I haven’t settled on a main yet. I like aggressive powerful characters a lot. Wario has been one of my faves, and I like ganon, cloud, and bowser too. But I’m open to recommendations from people who know the game better! (Been playing since melee, so I’m not new, but haven’t gotten serious till now)
You've already mentioned :ultwario: Wario, :ultganondorf:Ganondorf, :ultcloud: Cloud, and :ultbowser:Bowser
So here's some I recommend off the top of my head:
:ultwolf: Wolf - You can be up in people's faces, and you can do combos even though he hits pretty hard. Wolf just can kinda do everything. Avoid using blaster so you don't turn into a zoner, and so you keep on improving. Wolf doesn't even need that blaster... but it is there if you get frustrated with some opponents at low to mid level of play.
:ultroy: Roy - He's one of the most aggressive characters in the game to the point where he taught me to be more aggressive when I started playing him because of his gameplay. Roy hits like a truck on his sweet-spot, but if you miss, you will at least get the sour spot which can lead to a combo. At higher levels of play you can use sour spots to your advantage. I feel Roy is great at all skill levels of play. Try :ultchrom: Chrom if you want things to be a bit easier or consistent since he doesn't have to worry about sour spots. However, Chrom can easier get robbed during his recovery, whereas Roy can mix it up so much that Roy can get back to stage a lot more reliably.
:ultbrawler: Mii Brawler - Mii Brawler has quite a few moves like Fox and is very fast. However, Mii Brawler has some things that kill stupid early, and Forward Smash is pretty ridiculous if you hit it. However due to the hate of miis and people choosing other characters over Miis, there is a lack of information about them.
Moveset talk
Off the top of my head, people generally recommend the moveset 12?2 (shot Put, Suplex, Up Bs are all crazy good, Feint Jump). Since this allows for so much versatility. Shot Put can destroy some recoveries, Suplex is a sweet command grab, and you can suplexcide with it, and Feint Jump helps with recovery and allows for more options. Don't feel like you have to be stuck with these though.
Flashing Mach Punch is another good choice. Exploding Side Kick is basically an in-between of falcon Punch and Warlock Punch since there is armor for a short period of time and hits hard. Exploding side kick is more for disrespect though because Forward Smash is better in most ways so it's usually better to take something that allows for more versatility.
Onslaught can kill early and do nice damage, but the end lag on it is absolutely abysmal so you better know it's going to hit. Burning drop kick can't be charged like Smash 4, but it still has it's uses because of how much it changes where your body is, and can be used multiple times in the air, and covering a decent amount of space and doing decent damage.
Soaring Axe Kick I don't know a whole lot about, but it seems a bit more "normal" compared to the other 2 Up+B, and it can spike a bit too. It hits very far in front, so for longer ranged attacks it's nice to use this for an out of sheild option despite it being a bit slower than the other 2 to start. Helicopter Kick is infamous for killing people at 40% at the ledge, but this comes at the cost of having a poor vertical recovery. Thrust uppercut comes out quick and can kill off the top when used after down throw at certain %s.
Head on Assault I don't know much about because I've heard it's pretty bad due to it's end lag, and it's very similar to bowser bomb. I saw it spike last night. Other than that I don't know much about it. Counter throw is one of the top 3 strongest counters if I remember right. Just I usually don't see it because Feint Jump is so darn good and looks so cool that mii brawlers I've seen will use that. Pretty sure it doesn't work on projectiles though because you aren't tossing the opponent.
You can always swap around the moveset though, and go ask the brawler discord and look at guides to know more so you can get something that fits you.
:ultfalcon: Falcon has the speed and power to be very aggressive and it's amazing to see a good aggressive Falcon because the character is so explosive. You'll need to have some decent fundamentals though. Since you've played Ganondorf, some things may seem familiar, but Captain Falcon is much faster and more precise, but he can still hit just about as hard. Especially with his knee.
:ultminmin Min Min - Something a bit different, but you can just keep on tossing out your arms constantly. You are always in control, and always pressuring the opponent. You're not even defenseless when people get close because she has some fast close range options as well. Just don't expect to have many friends if you keep playing her because she kinda doesn't let other characters play their game.
:ultyoshi: Yoshi - As long as you don't run away and spam eggs, and only use them to cover yourself getting back to stage or approaching, Yoshi can be very aggressive. He has some surprisingly strong moves, he's heavier and faster than you might expect as well. Yoshi feels the best to play in this game compared to other smash games imo.
:ultjoker:Joker - He's a very aggressive character overall. He may not hit hard normally, but once he gets arsene he hits like a truck. Since you don't have it all the time, it makes you appreciate that power when you get it more.

Good luck to you!
 

Galgatha

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:ultbrawler: Mii Brawler - Mii Brawler has quite a few moves like Fox and is very fast. However, Mii Brawler has some things that kill stupid early, and Forward Smash is pretty ridiculous if you hit it. However due to the hate of miis and people choosing other characters over Miis, there is a lack of information about them.
To be honest, this is something I don't really understand. I can understand some sort of carry over from Smash 4 (where Mii's were significantly more customizable [ex: not only their special movies, but height and weight were customizable as well]). However, the customization of Mii's have been turned down alot here in Ultimate.

Personally, I love how Mii's can now be played Online in (what is basically For Glory) Elite Smash. I would have imagined that with the higher amount of exposure to Mii's, they would become more utilized as legitimate characters in Smash. I have a pretty nasty :ultswordfighter: as a secondary that I play all the time online. Because of this, I guess you could say I have "opt-in" into the Mii talk.
 

NYC_NoWayJoseph

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New York
I've been on and off with this game, but as of recent i've been wanting to improve better with my fundamentals. I'm more experienced in SFV but the character i love to play in that game is Ryu. I understand Ryu is not as simple in SF so i'm trying to find a main that can help me improve. The character i do like is balanced but more on an empathize on zoning/defensive play.
 

StrangeKitten

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I've been on and off with this game, but as of recent i've been wanting to improve better with my fundamentals. I'm more experienced in SFV but the character i love to play in that game is Ryu. I understand Ryu is not as simple in SF so i'm trying to find a main that can help me improve. The character i do like is balanced but more on an empathize on zoning/defensive play.
Ryu is zoning and defensive-based in Ultimate! Might not be a bad choice to play him in Smash as well. If you like the fighting-game-input characters in Smash, there's also Ken and Terry to try out.

Link comes to mind as a character who is balanced but zoning based. He has both a sword and projectiles for zoning! Which... makes me realize you didn't specify if you want sword zoning, or projectile zoning. Cloud is someone you could look to who plays the sword zoning style more than Link does, but also has a couple projectiles. Hope this helps!
 

Keeshu

Smash Ace
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761
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Lurking in the darkness.....
To be honest, this is something I don't really understand. I can understand some sort of carry over from Smash 4 (where Mii's were significantly more customizable [ex: not only their special movies, but height and weight were customizable as well]). However, the customization of Mii's have been turned down alot here in Ultimate.

Personally, I love how Mii's can now be played Online in (what is basically For Glory) Elite Smash. I would have imagined that with the higher amount of exposure to Mii's, they would become more utilized as legitimate characters in Smash. I have a pretty nasty :ultswordfighter: as a secondary that I play all the time online. Because of this, I guess you could say I have "opt-in" into the Mii talk.
I mean there's probably a few things at play for the hate of Miis.
1. Some people hate anything casual, and the Miis are kind of representative of the Wii, which was when Nintendo kinda focused towards being more casual. Combine with Brawl coming out on the Wii, gives another reason for smash specific people to get annoyed about it.
2. Some people just want to see the Nintendo characters. The Miis are kind like people's OCs getting in. It can be a bit jarring seeing them among the Nintendo stars for some people.
3. While every character has some jank, the Miis kinda have a bit more of it. Combine that with people generally not knowing how to fight it. It can be frustrating. Mii gunner is one of the most annoying things to fight if you're not experienced with the game, whereas the other 2 can feel like they rob your stocks out of nowhere more frequently than a lot of characters.
4. Smash 4 has left an imprint on some people. Not being able to use them in For Glory didn't help at all. Also, because custom moves in general were so unbalanced that some were useless, and other were game-breaking, the Miis got hit in the crossfire since their thing was customization. Hurricane kick kind of was still OP, and I dunno what else was super strong in that game for them, but they have some stuff. Also turning miis super small basically made them high/top tiers.
There might be more I'm not thinking of, but I find them all to be petty reasons. However, petty reasons can still trigger emotions. I do think the hate of Miis has died down a lot though, which is good. Their moveset was made specifically for smash, and they can be hype as heck.

I haven't used the Miis all that much, but I definitely think they are being slept on since there's like no representation for them. I haven't used :ultswordfighter:Mii Swordsman much, but they were the second character I got into Elite Smash because I wanted to pretend to be Sephiroth after he was announced until he got in and wasn't expecting to get Elite Smash with them. I've only gotten 3 into Elite Smash right now.
1st being Dark Pit, who is kinda basic and fundamental. 3rd being Sephiroth because I can pick up new characters really fast, and Sephiroth is not the most forgiving when you just chuck out moves in a bad way due to his sluggish frames, and being super light. Also, I have a weak mental game when anything is on the line. These 3 characters I didn't expect or care if they got into Elite Smash (Sephiroth because I was just gonna focus on improving since I wanted to main him for 2021 and thought I'd get in towards the end of the year, just so happened to kick butt doing so), and because of that, I was able to concentrate enough to get them into Elite Smash.
He can kick some serious butt, and I probably could've kicked more butt if I had a more meta build and practiced combos.
I think the :ultbrawler:Mii Brawler is the best out of the 3 because of it's speed and devastating power that can come out of nowhere. :ultgunner:Mii Gunner seems to struggle from zoner problems, but they don't seem to struggle as hard as some other zoners because their projectiles are so ridiculous and they aren't super slow.

I do hope we see some more Miis as long as people aren't being toxic with them (as with any character). As for me, I'm duo-maining :ultsephiroth:Sephiroth and :ultpichu:Pichu for the duration of this year. Gotta say, imitating Sephiroth as Mii Swordsman did really make me love the character more than I already did, so maybe I'll try to main him next year if I don't swap back to something else. Perhaps I could do a different Mii each year so I can finally have a firm grasp on how good they really are. However, I'm definitely maining :ultridley:Ridley in 2024 because it'll be the year of the bad dragon. Spoiler for those curious as to why I've finally set on those since I've probably asked for help deciding on a main a few different times here since it's hard to decide.
:ultsephiroth: Sephiroth's style and attitude is like the personification of the feeling I'm trying to chase when it comes to trying to "master" smash. Haven't played his games, but I do like the story behind him based off of what I've heard. Kinda like :ultlucario:Lucario's background (A loyal soldier that gets "betrayed" by his closest friends, who is actually a monster that is one of the few that has mastery of the life energy of the world they live in), but instead of having Ash to help Lucario find his way, Sephiroth instead finds some papers that gives him the entirely wrong idea leading down the wrong path because of a :ultmewtwo:Mewtwo situation (who's story I also like a lot).

Then you got the gameplay which feels awesome.
1. I'm a fan of spacing attacks properly, I could blame :ultmarth:Marth for that, who I sometimes pretended I was Sephiroth all the way back in Melee when I used to be obsessed with how cool Sephiroth and Alucard looked.
2. He's got Cloud/Joker's down tilt, which makes me feel awesome everytime I use it to dodge for a mixup or sliding under projectiles/aerials.
3. I absolutely love any type of move that pressures the opponent, and Shadow Flare is one of those moves when you get one on the opponent.
4. If I need a break to play more casually, I can always use the Flares, Octaslash, and up air/upsmash.
5. I love comeback mechanics. Makes it harder for me when I'm winning, but easier for me if I'm losing, making it so I concentrate more often since I tend to panic if I'm too far behind, or get overconfident when I'm ahead... And I get overconfident really easily. However, it's just no where near as crazy as Lucario's Aura in terms of being able to do things without it.

However, Sephiroth does have some major weaknesses. Also, After getting burned out from trying to main Meta Knight, then Lucario, and some other characters, I realized I probably need to change my strategy for getting a main. So I figured I'd try to duo-main. So I thought to myself, "Who has the shortest range, low startup/end lag, and combos like crazy that I love to play a bunch and haven't tried to main in the past?". Pichu came immediately to mind.

:ultpichu: Pichu is probably has the simplest reason out of the top characters I love to play. They just make me extremely happy whenever I play them, and unlike Captain Falcon, Lucario, or Ridley, it's consistent for the entire time I play them. Though back in my Melee days, I refused to play anything "cute' because I always wanted to be all cool in front of my friends (I know better now). Then in Brawl + Smash 4 Pichu just wasn't around and I was distracted by other characters, and :ultpikachu:Pikachu just doesn't make me as happy for some reason (even if his gameplay is more reliable). Pichu is finally back, and I've been enjoying him so much. Also Pokemon Yellow was my first Pokemon game. I get attached easily to characters in games, and seeing Pikachu love you more overtime just hit me pretty hard as a kid. Though feels weird being Pikachu, I'd rather be his little bro! Also Pichu has more of that underdog thing going for him, especially since Pikachu is around for people to be like "just go Pikachu!". I am a HUGE sucker for underdogs, even to the point where there's been a few times I've considered maining :ultlittlemac: Little Mac since Little Mac is like the personification of an underdog (yes, he's bottom tier, but that just makes him more of an underdog that I love).

Then there's his gameplay, who if I was totally unbiased, Pikachu would be up there in picks because Pikachu busted in Ultimate, and does well in most games. Also the gameplay looks fun in general as well. Though I prefer Pichu because it's smaller, faster, and more glass cannon for more intense moments.
1. Quick Attack/Agility - I like options and quick attack/agility gives you an insane amount of options because it can go so far, and just about instantly. Pichu can't use it to attack, but it can reposition really well. Also this move kinda just shuts down some of the things that make other characters special, it's stupid.
2. Reliable projectile (minus the bouncing thing it does) - Easy damage when people trying to recover. Easy way to force an opponent to do something when you approach. Pichu forces you to not spam it cuz self damage, which is a good thing.
3. Combos for days. Doing combos is my weakpoint, I feel Pichu will help me with that and hopefully it'll translate to other characters. Though it always feels like Pikachu/Pichu players can just carry their opponents forever. I did play :4pikachu:Pikachu for a short time in Smash 4 and it was fun because I had a Pikachu main friend and wanted to give him some tips. After a bit of time, I tried playing him against his Pikachu and made me realize just how differently you can play Pikachu. He was very aggressive, but had perfect inputs so he had nasty combos. I on the other hand could just whittle him down using quick attack and thunderbolt to give me openings frequently. We were about even, and I could already kick people's butts with Pikachu. I could only imagine how OP Pikachu is if you combine all his reliable openings with his insane combos. Makes me want to use Pikachu/Pichu to decimate people.
4. Spikes - Since I tried to play Lucario and Meta Knight for so long, I'm always happy whenever I get to play a character with a spike. It's very easy to put opponents into a situation to spike.
5. One of the smallest+fastest in the game. I dunno why, but small, fragile characters get my emotions going. I just love seeing other characters just tower over me as they swing their large deadly attacks that would have killed other characters if it hit, but because I just barely moved out of the way, I can survive another day and perhaps combo off of it. Though knowing that if I do get hit, I'll be dead sooner than anyone else makes me feel awesome when I don't get hit.



I've been on and off with this game, but as of recent i've been wanting to improve better with my fundamentals. I'm more experienced in SFV but the character i love to play in that game is Ryu. I understand Ryu is not as simple in SF so i'm trying to find a main that can help me improve. The character i do like is balanced but more on an empathize on zoning/defensive play.
Spoiler for suggestions
As with any game, just make sure you are having fun with it. If you force yourself to play a character too hard, and not let yourself have fun, you're going to quit before you even have a chance to try to improve.
:ultmario:Mario is great for learning the game as he gives you a general idea of what a "normal" character is supposed to do. He's very simple, yet somehow he's very versatile to the point where you can have any sort of gameplay style you want with him and switch on the fly. Only problem is that he's short range.
:ultpit::ultdarkpit: Pit/Dark Pit - Another all-rounder character, though they are a slight bit more limited than Mario. However, they are a bit more defensive in general due to their disjointed range, and having a projectile that reliably hits opponents.
They are almost the same character, but there are 2 changes that can drastically change a matchup. Dark Pit's Side+B is much stronger and sends to the side, while Pit's will send to the top of the blastzone. Making it so Dark Pit can KO early at the ledge, or KO really late if you hit on the opposite side of the stage. Whereas Pit will consistently KO off the top of the stage.
Dark Pit's arrows are much stronger, and act like most normal projectiles, but you can very very slightly change the angle. Whereas Pit has insane control of his arrows, allowing him to constantly pressure the opponent no matter where they are on the map, but is quite difficult to do so, and his arrows are the only projectile that act the way they do in the game.


As for suggestions I'm less confident about:
:ultryu: I haven't played a ton of Street Fighter, but since Ryu is literally in this game, I'm sure there's some overlap. However, you need to practice combos a lot with Ryu to get stuff out of him. If you do, your opponents will melt. However, a lot of characters will be trying to keep you out since he doesn't have the largest range, and is quite slow. His projectile play is better than :ultken:Ken's, and he generally does all his damage in a single hit, whereas Ken does quite a few multihits. They do have quite a few identical moves though.
:ultyoshi: Yoshi is an all-rounder character, can do well, and can be defensive when he wants to. Only problem is that his movement is weird and recovery method is not normal at all since he relies on his armored double jump to get back, but in Ultimate the egg toss does help with recovery a lot.
:ultike: A much heavier emphasis on defensive play, and will help with fundamentals. However, if someone has played Smash for quite a while and is trying to up their game, I usually recommend they try Ike, and it usually works. He's incredibly basic, so you'll learn his tools pretty quick, and there's a focus on the opponent. Also, he is a sword user, and sword users can play differently from non-sword users because of their disjoints.
:ultlucina:If this was another smash game I'd recommend Marth because tipper mechanic rewards good spacing, however it's so small in this game that for newer players they should use Lucina instead. Lucina is another character that is incredibly basic that helps with fundamentals, but she is more aggressive than Ike because she's much faster. Once again, sword users play different from non-sword users.
:ultlink:Since StrangeKitten mentioned Link. I just wanna say it is a possibility to use Link, but you'll be doing a lot of zoning. I learned Smash off of Link in Smash Bros Melee. Link has an answer for all ranges. Too far? projectile. Closish range? sword. On top and you want to get away or combo? Nair. With that said, as someone who learned the game off of Link, I can't recommend this to everyone. It's hard to not want to spam projectiles mindlessly since you generally want to always be doing something if they aren't within attacking range. When you're learning the game, it'll be easy to just panic throw out attacks without having any real intent on why you're using that projectile. There's a time and place for the projectiles, and you need to know how+why. Look at IzawSmash's Art of Link if you want to get crazy good with him (speaking of which, look at his general guides on getting better too). He starts off easy, but once you start trying to master his bomb shenanigans, he's crazy hard. Alternatively you can play :ultyounglink:Young Link who doesn't have that crazy bomb, but is much faster. Or :ulttoonlink:Toon Link who is much more projectile focused, but losing the OP nair that the other 2 Links have.
 

NYC_NoWayJoseph

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
6
Location
New York
Spoiler for suggestions
As with any game, just make sure you are having fun with it. If you force yourself to play a character too hard, and not let yourself have fun, you're going to quit before you even have a chance to try to improve.
:ultmario:Mario is great for learning the game as he gives you a general idea of what a "normal" character is supposed to do. He's very simple, yet somehow he's very versatile to the point where you can have any sort of gameplay style you want with him and switch on the fly. Only problem is that he's short range.
:ultpit::ultdarkpit: Pit/Dark Pit - Another all-rounder character, though they are a slight bit more limited than Mario. However, they are a bit more defensive in general due to their disjointed range, and having a projectile that reliably hits opponents.
They are almost the same character, but there are 2 changes that can drastically change a matchup. Dark Pit's Side+B is much stronger and sends to the side, while Pit's will send to the top of the blastzone. Making it so Dark Pit can KO early at the ledge, or KO really late if you hit on the opposite side of the stage. Whereas Pit will consistently KO off the top of the stage.
Dark Pit's arrows are much stronger, and act like most normal projectiles, but you can very very slightly change the angle. Whereas Pit has insane control of his arrows, allowing him to constantly pressure the opponent no matter where they are on the map, but is quite difficult to do so, and his arrows are the only projectile that act the way they do in the game.


As for suggestions I'm less confident about:
:ultryu: I haven't played a ton of Street Fighter, but since Ryu is literally in this game, I'm sure there's some overlap. However, you need to practice combos a lot with Ryu to get stuff out of him. If you do, your opponents will melt. However, a lot of characters will be trying to keep you out since he doesn't have the largest range, and is quite slow. His projectile play is better than :ultken:Ken's, and he generally does all his damage in a single hit, whereas Ken does quite a few multihits. They do have quite a few identical moves though.
:ultyoshi: Yoshi is an all-rounder character, can do well, and can be defensive when he wants to. Only problem is that his movement is weird and recovery method is not normal at all since he relies on his armored double jump to get back, but in Ultimate the egg toss does help with recovery a lot.
:ultike: A much heavier emphasis on defensive play, and will help with fundamentals. However, if someone has played Smash for quite a while and is trying to up their game, I usually recommend they try Ike, and it usually works. He's incredibly basic, so you'll learn his tools pretty quick, and there's a focus on the opponent. Also, he is a sword user, and sword users can play differently from non-sword users because of their disjoints.
:ultlucina:If this was another smash game I'd recommend Marth because tipper mechanic rewards good spacing, however it's so small in this game that for newer players they should use Lucina instead. Lucina is another character that is incredibly basic that helps with fundamentals, but she is more aggressive than Ike because she's much faster. Once again, sword users play different from non-sword users.
:ultlink:Since StrangeKitten mentioned Link. I just wanna say it is a possibility to use Link, but you'll be doing a lot of zoning. I learned Smash off of Link in Smash Bros Melee. Link has an answer for all ranges. Too far? projectile. Closish range? sword. On top and you want to get away or combo? Nair. With that said, as someone who learned the game off of Link, I can't recommend this to everyone. It's hard to not want to spam projectiles mindlessly since you generally want to always be doing something if they aren't within attacking range. When you're learning the game, it'll be easy to just panic throw out attacks without having any real intent on why you're using that projectile. There's a time and place for the projectiles, and you need to know how+why. Look at IzawSmash's Art of Link if you want to get crazy good with him (speaking of which, look at his general guides on getting better too). He starts off easy, but once you start trying to master his bomb shenanigans, he's crazy hard. Alternatively you can play :ultyounglink:Young Link who doesn't have that crazy bomb, but is much faster. Or :ulttoonlink:Toon Link who is much more projectile focused, but losing the OP nair that the other 2 Links have.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the suggestions, i never thought to try the Pits. I'll hit the lab with Pits, Ike and Links see which character i enjoy playing the most. question are the bomb stuff essential to any of the links
 

Keeshu

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
761
Location
Lurking in the darkness.....
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the suggestions, i never thought to try the Pits. I'll hit the lab with Pits, Ike and Links see which character i enjoy playing the most. question are the bomb stuff essential to any of the links
[/QUOTE]
Essential..... depends on what you mean by essential. I mean I see quite a few Links who never pull out bombs for entire matches, but do decently. You can easily get into Elite Smash without bombs, especially since some matchups kind of prevent the Links from using many bombs. After all, Links are a bit vulnerable when pulling the bomb, so they have to be a decent distance away from the opponent.
With that said, for most characters they fight, bombs are one of their higher priority moves. It allows for you to just toss it at someone for an easy combo with one of your aerials and/or other projectiles. You can't grab with bomb in hand, so you know your opponent is probably going to either shield or dodge. Though sometimes you have enough time to grab the opponent after tossing the bomb. You can still use projectiles while holding a bomb btw, just don't forget it explodes after a while.

:ultyounglink:Young Link and :ulttoonlink:Toon Link's bombs are almost like a basic item. You toss it, it explodes on enemy for damage and you can do something after. The bomb also bounces off the shield, leading to lower leveled players to stay in shield usually, and there's more mix ups for both players at higher levels of play. Bomb to Fair can be a pretty easy kill confirm at higher %s when you're newish.

:ultlink: BOTW Link can use his bombs at lower levels of play to great effect. It doesn't combo in the same fashion as the other Links since it doesn't detonate on hit and knockback is different, but you can still combo off it. Also since you control when it detonates, you can leave it like a trap as well. The bombs with BOTW Link only get difficult when you start fighting really hard opponents and need to optimize everything in order to win, which means you should easily get into Elite Smash at this point. Three things off the top of my head make it tricky. I'm sure there's more, the bomb is so incredibly versatile, so I love it so much.
1. Bomb recovery. there's a lot of specifics on when you can and can't do bomb recovery. Look up guides specificly for it. It just allows Link to live to ridiculous %s. You better know how to tech the stage as well.
2. Attacks can send your bomb in a certain direction, which can allow for some special options sometimes.
3. Zair drop combos require you to drop an item in place by pressing grab without pressing a direction, then doing an aerial to pick it back up after it hits the opponent. This allows for some crazy combos, and hard pressure.
Once again, you don't need these things to kick everyone's butt with Link, but they allow for more options, and more options always helps. Just gotta start with fundamentals, before you start doing crazy stuff like this. If you have terrible fundamentals, then doing this crazy stuff won't even get you anywhere.

Izaw Smash's Art Of Playlist
Watching Izaw's Link got me into the competitive mindset for Smash since his Link is usually a lot flashier compared to other Links. He has some in-depth guides on them. Here's a playlist of his "art of" series. I recommend watching the first 7. Including the Ike because the Ike one has a lot of general stuff that applies to all characters since Ike is such a basic character. Then you can look at Link's videos if you want to keep maining Link, especially since Izaw mains him.

Whoever you do pick, make sure you join that character discord and ask other people for help.
 

Galgatha

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
269
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With my wonderful wife!
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SinChill
I haven't used the Miis all that much, but I definitely think they are being slept on since there's like no representation for them. I haven't used :ultswordfighter:Mii Swordsman much, but they were the second character I got into Elite Smash because I wanted to pretend to be Sephiroth after he was announced until he got in and wasn't expecting to get Elite Smash with them. I've only gotten 3 into Elite Smash right now.
I've only got 1 currently in elite smash (got em in last night!) which is my Jr. I'm getting kinda worried that perhaps Falco may no longer be my main. I still really enjoy the character, but I seem to be stuck around the 5mil~6mil GSP area, where-as my Jr is around 8.4mil, Swordfighter is sitting around 6.8-9mil, and my Banjo is working it's way up towards 7.7mil.

It sounds weird, but it's almost like have a mid-Smash-Life crisis XD. I've mained the bird since Melee consistently, but for some reason I am just struggling more than I originally thought I would with Falco and getting him into elite smash. My problem is two-fold, 1) I tend to fall towards "dash attack non-stop"! when I get frustrated, which gets me punished, and 2) I just struggle to kill with Falco. I either hit a Smash attack, get my rare combo into a killing Uair, or kill you around 180% with a fair/nair XD.\

Let's not talk about my Greninja though >_>, that character I am seriously considering moving from "Secondary" to "For fun" lol.
 

Keeshu

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
761
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Lurking in the darkness.....
I've only got 1 currently in elite smash (got em in last night!) which is my Jr. I'm getting kinda worried that perhaps Falco may no longer be my main. I still really enjoy the character, but I seem to be stuck around the 5mil~6mil GSP area, where-as my Jr is around 8.4mil, Swordfighter is sitting around 6.8-9mil, and my Banjo is working it's way up towards 7.7mil.

It sounds weird, but it's almost like have a mid-Smash-Life crisis XD. I've mained the bird since Melee consistently, but for some reason I am just struggling more than I originally thought I would with Falco and getting him into elite smash. My problem is two-fold, 1) I tend to fall towards "dash attack non-stop"! when I get frustrated, which gets me punished, and 2) I just struggle to kill with Falco. I either hit a Smash attack, get my rare combo into a killing Uair, or kill you around 180% with a fair/nair XD.\

Let's not talk about my Greninja though >_>, that character I am seriously considering moving from "Secondary" to "For fun" lol.
Congrats on Elite Smash! Even if you do switch mains, you can always still play your old one whenever you want. Though if you want to be stubborn, go look at more Falco guides, and videos, ask the Falco Discord so you can add more tools to your Falco so there's no way you would ever swap mains.

At least you can tell that you're dash attacking too much. If you see it happen, you can remind yourself to calm down and focus on the opponent instead of thinking "omg, I'm dash attacking like a gosh darn noob!". It is actually really shocking how distracting emotions or some thoughts can be when trying to play well. If it bothers you even half as much as it bothers me, then you should try to find ways to improve on it. It's easier to play well when there's nothing on the mind. I personally see the effect of "Oh I should be good with this character, why aren't I playing well with them!?" often, and it definitely causes me to lose games because eventually it gets to the point where I can't even think about what the opponent is doing. Another funny thing about the 3 characters that I didn't care about that I got into Elite Smash..... I only played them for a day when I got them all into Elite Smash... Yeah, don't underestimate the mental game.

As for struggling to kill, I say look for kill setups/confirms, or types of baits to let you land a kill. I know the least about Falco when it comes to the spacies because I love Wolf and Fox is the character that got me into smash, so I go to them first when I want to play one of the trio. So I can't give any specific advice on that. Me being a noob at Falco would probably try to pressure with back air because I know it's very strong since it can KO and can autocancel about half way through the move just a few frames after the attack ends too. Also throwing people off-stage to limit their options, especially if they are a character with bad recovery. Maybe even up throw if they are a character that struggles with getting back to the ground and figure out if they are going to air dodge or not and punish accordingly. Ask the Falco discord about that since they definitely would know better than me. After all, I feel down-taunt to down smash is the best "kill confirm" Falco has =p

Ah poor Greninja. He's a character I want to get into, but because there's so many other characters that are higher priority for me, it's hard to ever give him the time. Though from what I've seen, I think it's pretty hard to have him as a secondary, because he seems so crazy hard and has a heavy emphasis on precise combos.
 

NYC_NoWayJoseph

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
6
Location
New York
Thanks for the suggestions, i never thought to try the Pits. I'll hit the lab with Pits, Ike and Links see which character i enjoy playing the most. question are the bomb stuff essential to any of the links
[/QUOTE]
Essential..... depends on what you mean by essential. I mean I see quite a few Links who never pull out bombs for entire matches, but do decently. You can easily get into Elite Smash without bombs, especially since some matchups kind of prevent the Links from using many bombs. After all, Links are a bit vulnerable when pulling the bomb, so they have to be a decent distance away from the opponent.
With that said, for most characters they fight, bombs are one of their higher priority moves. It allows for you to just toss it at someone for an easy combo with one of your aerials and/or other projectiles. You can't grab with bomb in hand, so you know your opponent is probably going to either shield or dodge. Though sometimes you have enough time to grab the opponent after tossing the bomb. You can still use projectiles while holding a bomb btw, just don't forget it explodes after a while.

:ultyounglink:Young Link and :ulttoonlink:Toon Link's bombs are almost like a basic item. You toss it, it explodes on enemy for damage and you can do something after. The bomb also bounces off the shield, leading to lower leveled players to stay in shield usually, and there's more mix ups for both players at higher levels of play. Bomb to Fair can be a pretty easy kill confirm at higher %s when you're newish.

:ultlink: BOTW Link can use his bombs at lower levels of play to great effect. It doesn't combo in the same fashion as the other Links since it doesn't detonate on hit and knockback is different, but you can still combo off it. Also since you control when it detonates, you can leave it like a trap as well. The bombs with BOTW Link only get difficult when you start fighting really hard opponents and need to optimize everything in order to win, which means you should easily get into Elite Smash at this point. Three things off the top of my head make it tricky. I'm sure there's more, the bomb is so incredibly versatile, so I love it so much.
1. Bomb recovery. there's a lot of specifics on when you can and can't do bomb recovery. Look up guides specificly for it. It just allows Link to live to ridiculous %s. You better know how to tech the stage as well.
2. Attacks can send your bomb in a certain direction, which can allow for some special options sometimes.
3. Zair drop combos require you to drop an item in place by pressing grab without pressing a direction, then doing an aerial to pick it back up after it hits the opponent. This allows for some crazy combos, and hard pressure.
Once again, you don't need these things to kick everyone's butt with Link, but they allow for more options, and more options always helps. Just gotta start with fundamentals, before you start doing crazy stuff like this. If you have terrible fundamentals, then doing this crazy stuff won't even get you anywhere.

Izaw Smash's Art Of Playlist
Watching Izaw's Link got me into the competitive mindset for Smash since his Link is usually a lot flashier compared to other Links. He has some in-depth guides on them. Here's a playlist of his "art of" series. I recommend watching the first 7. Including the Ike because the Ike one has a lot of general stuff that applies to all characters since Ike is such a basic character. Then you can look at Link's videos if you want to keep maining Link, especially since Izaw mains him.

Whoever you do pick, make sure you join that character discord and ask other people for help.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the help on everything. I've played a couple of casual matches, and hit the lab on each suggestion. I'm leaning more towards Dark Pit. The Links aren't for me since the bomb recovery stuff is so frustrating to get the hang of.
 

Keeshu

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
761
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Lurking in the darkness.....
Thanks for the help on everything. I've played a couple of casual matches, and hit the lab on each suggestion. I'm leaning more towards Dark Pit. The Links aren't for me since the bomb recovery stuff is so frustrating to get the hang of.
Overall I think bomb recovery isn't worth worrying about when you're at lower levels of play, as up+B can travel a decent distance, and most people won't even attempt to attack you as you recover with it. BOTW is the only really hard one because of a few reasons, but BOTW Link is pretty heavy so it shouldn't be too big of a problem. Since the other two Links it'll detonate at the same time after you pull it out.

I'm glad you're liking Dark Pit though! I think Dark Pit is much better for learning the fundamentals anyways since Link players sometimes just throw projectiles out and forget the purpose of why they are throwing that projectile in the first place (outside of long range damage of course). I wish you luck!
 

Keeshu

Smash Ace
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Messages
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Lurking in the darkness.....
Can someone teach me how to use PK Thunder specifically Lucus'
First video I saw on Lucas's PK Thunder. If there's anything more specific, might wanna say it. I'm no Lucas player though, so I don't know the intricacies of the move. So I don't know how Ness/Lucas players bounce off the stage to let them do it a second time for example. I only know general things about the move like Lucas goes farther than Ness.

Since it seems you already have Lucas as your main, you might want to ask Lucas players more directly. Join the Lucas discord and ask around there. There is a Lucas specific subforum as well Smashboards Lucas section and you should definitely check out guides there. I wish you luck!
 

Glubbfubb

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
393
First video I saw on Lucas's PK Thunder. If there's anything more specific, might wanna say it. I'm no Lucas player though, so I don't know the intricacies of the move. So I don't know how Ness/Lucas players bounce off the stage to let them do it a second time for example. I only know general things about the move like Lucas goes farther than Ness.

Since it seems you already have Lucas as your main, you might want to ask Lucas players more directly. Join the Lucas discord and ask around there. There is a Lucas specific subforum as well Smashboards Lucas section and you should definitely check out guides there. I wish you luck!
Thanks I've been gaining him for 4 days and been moderately successful, it's just PK thunder is such a big step for me to complete before I master him
 

cloudy45

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 26, 2021
Messages
1
Hiyas! I'm not new to Smash, but new to Ultimate. Truth is I just have no idea which character would suit my preferred playstyle the best. I like to stay up close or midrange, do tons of short hops/aerials, go fairly grab-heavy, and i usually find nair/bair mixups most fun. I mained Yoshi in Melee and enjoyed Olimar in Brawl, a little bit of Duck Hunt in smash 4, but I'm pretty rusty and it's been several years since I played last. I'm open to trying most any character -- in the past I've avoided swordies but even then I'm not opposed if you guys think it would fit my preferences. Any ideas?
 
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StrangeKitten

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 25, 2020
Messages
1,395
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Pokemon Stadium 2
Hiyas! I'm not new to Smash, but new to Ultimate. Truth is I just have no idea which character would suit my preferred playstyle the best. I like to stay up close or midrange, do tons of short hops/aerials, go fairly grab-heavy, and i usually find nair/bair mixups most fun. I mained Yoshi in Melee and enjoyed Olimar in Brawl, a little bit of Duck Hunt in smash 4, but I'm pretty rusty and it's been several years since I played last. I'm open to trying most any character -- in the past I've avoided swordies but even then I'm not opposed if you guys think it would fit my preferences. Any ideas?
When I think of characters who love short hops, aerials, and grabs, I think of Mario! He's very fast so he's great at staying up close, has an excellent nair and an excellent bair, and is top tier so he's a good character to pick for Ultimate :)
 

usablejoker

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 7, 2021
Messages
8
I can't seem to find a main. Whenever I play online after watching videos on how to use them and it's as if suddenly they don't work anymore. This has happened to me with Zelda, Palutena, Shulk, Jigglypuff, Diddy Kong, and Megaman.
I have a weird playstyle where I need a character who can play from anywhere and switch from offensive to defensive.
 
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StrangeKitten

Smash Lord
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Mar 25, 2020
Messages
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Pokemon Stadium 2
I can't seem to find a main. Whenever I play online after watching videos on how to use them and it's as if suddenly they don't work anymore. This has happened to me with Zelda, Palutena, Shulk, Jigglypuff, Diddy Kong, and Megaman.
I have a weird playstyle where I need a character who can play from anywhere and switch from offensive to defensive.
I getcha, It's why I don't play online at all. The lag truly feels awful. I recommend getting a LAN adapter and hitting up arenas instead of Quickplay if you're gonna continue the online route.

Of those characters, I think Palutena is the best for what you want. Her aerials are far-reaching and linger a while, making offense with her really potent. And she also has Auto-Reticle, Explosive Light, a counter, and one of the best grabs for going on defense!
 

Keeshu

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
761
Location
Lurking in the darkness.....
I can't seem to find a main. Whenever I play online after watching videos on how to use them and it's as if suddenly they don't work anymore. This has happened to me with Zelda, Palutena, Shulk, Jigglypuff, Diddy Kong, and Megaman.
I have a weird playstyle where I need a character who can play from anywhere and switch from offensive to defensive.
My immediate thought is the Star Fox trio. :ultwolf::ultfalco::ultfox: Since they all can be rather defensive due to having reflectors to prevent opponents from zoning them, and they have blasters to force their opponents to approach while they stay defensive. They all have pretty strong combo games when they get up close too, so being aggressive is also a good thing for them.

Speedy characters or characters with projectiles can easily help you dictate whether you want to be aggressive or defensive. With a name like "usable joker" I'm surprised that :ultjoker:Joker isn't in your list of characters you tried. Gun can force some characters to approach. Then you got rebel's guard which your opponents definitely don't want to fill up. Then of course Joker has combos.

I could probably suggest a bazillion other characters, especially since every character can be defensive or aggressive in some way. Also some characters always force they opponents to be aggressive or defensive, so it is also a matchup thing as well. So if you can think of other things to help narrow down what character you want, you might wanna say them too.
 
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