Smash Ultimate Leak Discussion Thread

[Luigi The President]

So I wanna ask you this. Given how much Sakurai has respected Final Fantasy VII when Cloud was rolled out for Smash For came out - all the Summon Materia, the callback to Advent Children - he went as much as he could with the FFVII IP, so you know he's gonna have to include Disney in some shape or fashion to represent Kingdom Hearts damn good. Disney practically is the hugest part of Kingdom Hearts, and no doubt Sora is gonna use the OG keyblade, and Mickey Mouse is a part of that sword as the keychain. I'm not sure about other Disney subsidaries, but I definitely don't think Disney of Japan is gonna let that allowed, even with how much of a businessman Sakurai is.

It'd seem way more easier to work with the Super Mario RPG IP than the Kingdom Hearts IP.

Tots comin' into the Leak Thread to bring up his notorious "Ah...But Disney" zinger

Yea, SMRPG would definitely be much easier, I hope no one questions this. But I'm sure they're both a bit tough as they're third parties.

I know, right? He's the last of the three kings. That alone makes me want him a great deal!

They don't exist but...I feel comfortable calling him one of those anyhow. He's been everywhere for so damn long.

As a Crono boy I completely understand how unlikely he is at this point, in any capacity. Almost the exact opposite of a lock

Hey bro, he's an icon regardless.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

So I wanna ask you this. Given how much Sakurai has respected Final Fantasy VII when Cloud was rolled out for Smash For came out - all the Summon Materia, the callback to Advent Children - he went as much as he could with the FFVII IP, so you know he's gonna have to include Disney in some shape or fashion to represent Kingdom Hearts damn good. Disney practically is the hugest part of Kingdom Hearts, and no doubt Sora is gonna use the OG keyblade, and Mickey Mouse is a part of that sword as the keychain. I'm not sure about other Disney subsidaries, but I definitely don't think Disney of Japan is gonna let that allowed, even with how much of a businessman Sakurai is.

It'd seem way more easier to work with the Super Mario RPG IP than the Kingdom Hearts IP.

Didn't we already have this discussion and you just brushed off my points? I swear you took that from the General Thread like, 20 pages back or something.

Regardless, it's more than possible to faithfully represent Kingdom Hearts without Disney. There's a lot more to it than just Disney's properties. Hell, in Kingdom Hearts 2, Birth by Sleep, and Dream Drop Distance the Disney worlds are just a backdrop for the story more than anything. The keychain for the Kingdom Key is the only thing Sakurai would have to negotiate for that's Disney related, and I think they'd be okay with him using three circles to make the basic outline of Mickey's head.

 

[Impa4Smash]

If Sora is in I wonder if Donald or Goofy will appear in any capacity (like his final smash). I know they didn’t originate in video games but not having those two would feel just wrong

 

[Deleted member]

Tots comin' into the Leak Thread to bring up his notorious "Ah...But Disney" zinger

Yea, SMRPG would definitely be much easier, I hope no one questions this. But I'm sure they're both a bit tough as they're third parties.

It's 12 AM and I practically have nothing to do at the moment lmao
Figured I'd see how more people think of the matter, because it is a definite viable to consider.

 

[Momotsuki]

If Sora is in I wonder if Donald or Goofy will appear in any capacity (like his final smash). I know they didn’t originate in video games but not having those two would feel just wrong

And this is the biggest thing that has me opposed to Sora in Smash. Sora without Donald and Goofy just isn't Sora, and including those two is absolutely not something that should happen in Smash.

 

[Luigimon98]

What's the leak with Geno and Sora?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If Sora is in I wonder if Donald or Goofy will appear in any capacity (like his final smash). I know they didn’t originate in video games but not having those two would feel just wrong

Probably not due to obvious reasons by Disney. I'd imagine Riku and Kairi (Can she fight?) filling their place instead.

 

[Luigi The President]

Didn't we already have this discussion and you just brushed off my points? It's more than possible to faithfully represent Kingdom Hearts without Disney. There's a lot more to it than just Disney.

Yea agreed.

We don't "need" Goofy and Donald for the Final Smash like some are suggesting (not you Impa4Smash just in general) but instead, we could even use Riku.
I'm not a KH fan but know damn well he'd work flawlessly without Disney.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

It's 12 AM and I practically have nothing to do at the moment lmao
Figured I'd see how more people think of the matter, because it is a definite viable to consider.

Viable to think about? Sure.
Viable to actually consider? No.

Disney is not the limiting factor for Sora getting into Smash. It never has been, nor will it ever be.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Yea agreed.

We don't "need" Goofy and Donald for the Final Smash like some are suggesting (not you Impa4Smash just in general) but instead, we could even use Riku.
I'm not a KH fan but know damn well he'd work flawlessly without Disney.

He definitely would. I’m a big KH fan, and I didn’t mean it as a point against Sora. More like me being a bit bummed that the trio will probably be separated if Sora gets in

 

[Momotsuki]

One thing I'd give Sora credit for though is that him being in would mean a game made by Sora Ltd. has a playable character named Sora who is clearly not named after the company. And that's... I don't know, something you think about for about a second, grin slightly for a brief moment and then forget forever.

 

[Deleted member]

Didn't we already have this discussion and you just brushed off my points? It's more than possible to faithfully represent Kingdom Hearts without Disney. There's a lot more to it than just Disney.

I don't remember because the threads move so fast the moment I go away for even a minute. As long as we get Geno and Rex & Pyra, I'm all for more characters and series joining Smash, don't get me wrong, but I'm just trying to think about how Sakurai could go about respecting Kingdom Hearts in the best way possible. Mind you, aside from the Disney stuff, I don't even know what goes on in the franchise lmao

All I know is Mickey Mouse was in the darkness and some anime girl saying "you're too late" and everyone cried about it. That's practically the base level have when knowing Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Sonsa]

Just for further talk about replacing Donald and Goofy cause Disney and whatever - Disney completely owns Sora and Kingdom Hearts. All of it. Square owns the Final Fantasy characters that appear in it, but that's about it? So trying to avoid Disney when adding Sora is...impossible.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Is there even any real reason why Disney characters couldn’t appear? I mean, besides the salt from people who don’t want that in their Smash or whatever

The big three - Donald, Goofy, Mickey especially - have their own Kingdom Hearts aesthetic that doesn’t line up with their classic Disney images

Apologies if this was discussed to death already and I missed it

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I don't remember because the threads move so fast the moment I go away for even a minute. As long as we get Geno and Rex & Pyra, I'm all for more characters and series joining Smash, don't get me wrong, but I'm just trying to think about how Sakurai could go about respecting Kingdom Hearts in the best way possible. Mind you, aside from the Disney stuff, I don't even know what goes on in the franchise lmao

All I know is Mickey Mouse was in the darkness and some anime girl saying "you're too late" and everyone cried about it. That's practically the base level have when knowing Kingdom Hearts.

Oh, yeah. There's a lot more to it than what you think.

Also that scene is ****ing tragic if you know what's going on, but I digress.

Now then, since we've established that Sora can be the Square Enix rep for the umpteenth time, I'm going to bed.

 

[Momotsuki]

Just for further talk about replacing Donald and Goofy cause Disney and whatever - Disney completely owns Sora and Kingdom Hearts. All of it. Square owns the Final Fantasy characters that appear in it, but that's about it? So trying to avoid Disney when adding Sora is...impossible.

I don't even want Sora; quite the contrary. However... this is completely false. Sora is jointly owned by Disney AND Square Enix. So while your final point is correct; Sakurai would definitely have to go through Disney, which may or may not be a massive obstacle, Disney does not totally own Sora, but rather they share the rights to him with Square.
EDIT: Ignore me. I have been corrected. This post is dead wrong.

 

[Noipoi]

If Sora gets in, Donald and Goofy would definitely not come with him.

but on the incredibly off chance that they did...

Could we get a Stitch assist trophy?
Stitch is my boi...

 

[Z25]

Probably not due to obvious reasons by Disney. I'd imagine Riku and Kairi (Can she fight?) filling their place instead.

Yes Kairi can fight.

Also the quote disappeared from my message, but dark samus doesn’t cross paths with Ridley in the prime games and Ridley was big enough to warrant a trailer to himself. Which is why I feel they didn’t showcase them at the same time

 

[Luigi The President]

Oh, yeah. There's a lot more to it than what you think.

Also that scene is ****ing tragic if you know what's going on, but I digress.

Now then, since we've established that Sora can be the Square Enix rep for the umpteenth time, I'm going to bed.

Good night TPC. Thanks for the debatin.

If Sora gets in, Donald and Goofy would definitely not come with him.

but on the incredibly off chance that they did...

Could we get a Stitch assist trophy?
Stitch is my boi...

Lilo and Stich IC's echo

Yes Kairi can fight.

Also the quote disappeared from my message, but dark samus doesn’t cross paths with Ridley in the prime games and Ridley was big enough to warrant a trailer to himself. Which is why I feel they didn’t showcase them at the same time

And you think K. Rool isn't second to Ridley popularity-wise then? Because by that logic Dixie can still just be revealed later on.

 

[Shroob]

Is there even any real reason why Disney characters couldn’t appear? I mean, besides the salt from people who don’t want that in their Smash or whatever

The big three - Donald, Goofy, Mickey especially - have their own Kingdom Hearts aesthetic that doesn’t line up with their classic Disney images

Apologies if this was discussed to death already and I missed it

I mean, Mickey is Mickey, no matter how you phrase it. You can't use Mickey's likeness without the big D's lawyers behind involved.

 

[N3ON]

When DLC is all said and done, Sora being in but not Geno is absolutely preposterous in my opinion. That's the last I'll say on this matter.

Doesn't seem that much crazier than Cloud being in and not Geno tbh.

 

[Z25]

Good night TPC. Thanks for the debatin.


Lilo and Stich IC's echo


And you think K. Rool isn't second to Ridley popularity-wise then? Because by that logic Dixie can still just be revealed later on.

No I do. But correct me if I’m wrong, Dixie has been playable in games with K Rool as a villain right? I’ve never really gotten to play donkey Kong

 

[Luigi The President]

No I do. But correct me if I’m wrong, Dixie has been playable in games with K Rool as a villain right? I’ve never really gotten to play donkey Kong

She has but I do feel that's a very big stretch as to why she couldn't be an Echo.
I suppose it works, though.

 

[Sonsa]

I don't even want Sora; quite the contrary. However... this is completely false. Sora is jointly owned by Disney AND Square Enix. So while your final point is correct; Sakurai would definitely have to go through Disney, which may or may not be a massive obstacle, Disney does not totally own Sora, but rather they share the rights to him with Square.

Maybe things have changed in recent years for whatever reason and I wasn't aware...? I don't think so, but yeah, Disney themselves have made it clear that its theirs and theirs alone. They work with Square Enix to make it, but all the rights are theirs... https://www.mognetcentral.com/threads/disney-makes-it-clear-they-own-kh.4434/

 

[Momotsuki]

Maybe things have changed in recent years for whatever reason and I wasn't aware...? I don't think so, but yeah, Disney themselves have made it clear that its theirs and theirs alone. They work with Square Enix to make it, but all the rights are theirs... https://www.mognetcentral.com/threads/disney-makes-it-clear-they-own-kh.4434/

Huh. Looks like I was wrong there then. Thanks for correcting me.

 

[AnOkayDM]

There's plenty of source materials and other characters Sora can use in his moveset without ever considering Donald and Goofy. If characters show up in his Final Smash (which, maybe, but I think he'd probably just go into Final Form for a cinematic attack), it could just as easily be Riku and Kairi. Or they could show up as Assist Trophies or something. Sora can represent KH without the Disney stuff or the Final Fantasy stuff. He's got enough going on.

 

[Z25]

She has but I do feel that's a very big stretch as to why she couldn't be an Echo.
I suppose it works, though.

I think she would be a semi if in, but regardless of her role it would have made a lot more sense to put her in the trailer since she’s helped fight K. Rool before.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Maybe things have changed in recent years for whatever reason and I wasn't aware...? I don't think so, but yeah, Disney themselves have made it clear that its theirs and theirs alone. They work with Square Enix to make it, but all the rights are theirs... https://www.mognetcentral.com/threads/disney-makes-it-clear-they-own-kh.4434/

It's so surreal to see people posting statements made by my old VP, lol. I was actually going to say the exact same thing, but simply source myself.

As much as I love Sora and Kingdom Hearts, I really can't see it happening before Geno (and I'm not even a Geno fanatic). Also, for all of you concerned people: there is no way in hell Disney would ever put Donald and Goofy in with him for his Final Smash, Assist Trophies, or anything if he does happen.

 

[Momotsuki]

Even as these leaks seem to keep making things bleaker and bleaker for our wooded hero, I really can't find it in me to lose hope. A big reason I hope for a roster leak eventually is because I can't keep going with this uncertainty! It's honestly driving me bonkers. If Geno has been shafted yet again I'd really hope to know rather than hang on to this dwindling hope. But hey, with or without him, this Smash is gonna be great. So there's that!

 

[N3ON]

Also, for all of you concerned people: there is no way in hell Disney would ever put Donald and Goofy in with him for his Final Smash, Assist Trophies, or anything if he does happen.

I could see why Nintendo (or, more specifically, Sakurai) wouldn't want that, but why Disney (should they hypothetically be alright with Sora)? Smash too violent for the likes of their tentpole characters?

 

[Impa4Smash]

I mean, Mickey is Mickey, no matter how you phrase it. You can't use Mickey's likeness without the big D's lawyers behind involved.

I meant more in the sense that they wouldn’t look too out of place in Smash in their KH outfits.

Plus then Disney wouldn’t have classic Mickey fighting but rather KH Mickey

But yeah, realistically Sora would just be solo

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

I could see why Nintendo (or, more specifically, Sakurai) wouldn't want that, but why Disney (should they hypothetically be alright with Sora)? Smash too violent for the likes of their tentpole characters?

To put it frankly, yes. Especially with Donald. There are a lot of instances where they have to especially watch the gun / artillery violence around Donald Duck due to a lot of the more... political cartoons from the WWII era. Not that Donald or Goofy would be playable, but having them be in the same scene as Snake's various weapons is enough for a big fat "hell no" from the big cheese.

EDIT: Though I wouldn't mind being proven wrong by Disney. I would love for a KH trinity Final Smash.

 

[Aurora Jenny]

Oh yeah, Donald is a war veteran from that era, isn't he? Served in it and has a bit of a PSTD when it comes to guns and such right? Though KH Donald didn't seem to have much issue with this in the Clayton fight.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Oh yeah, Donald is a war veteran from that era, isn't he? Served in it and has a bit of a PSTD when it comes to guns and such right? Though KH Donald didn't seem to have much issue with this in the Clayton fight.

First of all, Donald was a German Nazi who worked with nukes in the cartoons. No need to get all sassafras over here. I'm friends with people in Disney Legal. I'm literally feeding lines I have spoken to them about in the past (not specifically about Smash). Having life-like artillery and explosives around Donald is something they actively avoid.

Here's the cartoon if anyone is interested. Sensitive political content and whatnot.

Spoiler: Cartoon

 

[NextChannelGames]

I don’t think Disney would be against having their properties in Super Smash Bros. Because the game would fit will for their Family-Friendly business of a fun fighting game that anyone can play as the mouse against the plumber.

But I don’t see happening is not having their characters in the game or place in a role that probably don’t want because they would want advertisement to new fans to check out their series.

I agree with the finale Smash for Sora where he fights with Donald & Goofy which would represents the KH series. Riku might end up being a Echo which I would be ok.

I don’t see anything wrong with the Idea bringing in a outside character into Smash Bros because they could bring new unique characters to enjoy. But they need to fit into the universe of Smash that Sakurai has created because not everyone is capable to be playable or fit in.

Would we get Mickey with Sora? I think we might just end up with Sora with his finale Smash for Donald & Goofy and probably Mickey Mouse being a Trophy... But in my view? He would be his own unique character outside of KH with the stage of his famous boat cartoon back in 1927.

Ultimately it’s Sakurai’s decision on who can be in Super Smash Bros and where to take it.

Spoiler

Don’t you even reply with any other outside character that isn’t the conversation on Disney because this form will explode with Goku & Sherk talks all night long so let’s keep it to Sora and Disney

 

[N3ON]

To put it frankly, yes. Especially with Donald. There are a lot of instances where they have to especially watch the gun / artillery violence around Donald Duck due to a lot of the more... political cartoons from the WWII era. Not that Donald or Goofy would be playable, but having them be in the same scene as Snake's various weapons is enough for a big fat "hell no" from the big cheese.

EDIT: Though I wouldn't mind being proven wrong by Disney. I would love for a KH trinity Final Smash.

Yeah, an overabundance of caution from Disney doesn't surprise me. Especially when your characters have dabbled in nazism. Even getting Sora seems a long, long shot.

But while I understand why people might be disappointed getting Sora without accompanying Disney characters, frankly I'd prefer it. I understand how essential it is to Kingdom Hearts, but seeing Mickey & friends in Smash would just be too jarring for me, despite them generally fitting within the aesthetic. Plus it would set a terrifying precedent whereby I spend the rest of speculation hiding from the resulting Goku horde. ._.

 

[zabimaru1000]

If Sora is in I wonder if Donald or Goofy will appear in any capacity (like his final smash). I know they didn’t originate in video games but not having those two would feel just wrong

Just replace Donald and Goofy with Riku and Kairi. They both can wield Keyblades and fight.

 

[Chrono.]

Thought I'd point out that Sora was DLC in World of Final Fantasy and he was completely on his own there.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Apparently Dragon Quest XI was just announced for the Switch

Edit: A couple hours ago

 

[Z25]

Although in terms or Sora I wouldn’t be too shocked if Donald and goofy showed up for a final smash.

Disney airs smash tournaments on their channel, so I don’t think they take issue with the game. Sure they don’t have their ips in it, but the fact that they still actively air the series is something worth noting