Smash Ultimate Leak Discussion Thread

[Untouch]

I do think a lot of ATs/Alts were removed to not rule them out when DLC is being developed.
Characters were probably planned before ATs were.

 

[iruchii]

Has any (fake) leak ever detailed what would entail to Skull Kid's moveset? I'm curious what people have came up with for him as a fighter.

The difficulty in getting the rights to use DQ characters is overblown.
If Nintendo managed to get Slime as a minor unlockable character in the Wii version of a sports spinoff I think they can get a DQ character for smash.
The music is the hurdle here, but it's the same as Cloud.

Wasn't that game co-developed by Square-Enix though?

 

[Calane]

The difficulty in getting the rights to use DQ characters is overblown.
If Nintendo managed to get Slime as a minor unlockable character in the Wii version of a sports spinoff I think they can get a DQ character for smash.
The music is the hurdle here, but it's the same as Cloud.

Is that right? I wonder why some people act like it would be a complete impossibility.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I do think a lot of ATs/Alts were removed to not rule them out when DLC is being developed.
Characters were probably planned before ATs were.

Yep, I know people talk about how Sakurai doesn't start smash DLC before the game goes gold, but I'm pretty sure selections and choices for DLC likely could come as early as the base rosters. They are just planned names, and work on them doesn't have to start until later.

 

[Robertman2]

It's either base roster or bust for characters like Isaac or Skull Kid. They wouldn't waste DLC development on niche characters like them

 

[Paperchampion23]

It's either base roster or bust for characters like Isaac or Skull Kid. They wouldn't waste DLC development on niche characters like them

???
>Skull Kid
>Niche

Majoras mask (the remake alone) sold over a million copies. Niche?

Isaac has a retrademark going for him and is one of the few 1st party Nintendo franchises left that they can use for smash. It's very likely (based in what the trademark says) that Nintendo may be reviving Golden Sun. The series also sold over a million copies.

They are not niche characters lmao

 

[Guynamednelson]

Skull Kid

Majora's Mask is pretty iconic though.

 

[ZenythSmash]

So what's the current consensus on Skull Kid's chances?

i despise how people underrating his and Isaac's chances because loz18 decide to go from consistent leaker to twitter insider guy who's doing teases at a discord he was kicked from instead.
also the chair thing is overrated and find it crud people are leaving out the couch too

 

[Fane]

It's either base roster or bust for characters like Isaac or Skull Kid. They wouldn't waste DLC development on niche characters like them

>Implying that one of the most iconic and popular LoZ characters and a character as requested as the likes of K. Rool, Bandana Dee, Ridley, etc... are 'niche' characters.

lol okay bud

If we're going to be brutally honest, making characters LIKE Isaac, Bandana Dee, Skull Kid, Geno, etc... as DLC compared to new ones like Rex/Pyra, ARMs characters, or what have you would be smarter in the long run.

Why?

They're super popular characters, therefore they'd rake in a LOT more money than newer characters that few people have actually familiarized themselves with.

 

[osby]

I think the most important thing fans of AT Characters (Shadow, Skull Kid, Isaac, Saki, etc) should hope for in the least for base are no deconfirmations like Waluigi or Ashley.

If these characters don't show up as ATs, it could be very possible that DLC may focus around some of them, especially if their AT is missing but they don't show up in base as playable. The only exception to this is probably Isaac, as him missing last game meant nothing for him, but I have other reasons to believe he might be a focus in the future.

That didn't worked out so well in the last game.

 

[amazonevan19]

Hi, haven't been on smashboards since 2015 and didn't like my old account so I made a new one.

Question: What are the chances for Shadow, Geno, and Bandana Dee in everyone's estimation? I'm really worried they won't make base roster because of the steve, Ken, and incineroar leaks but there's always hope for DLC and we could get them in base, but I think the chances are a lot less now.

 

[Paperchampion23]

That didn't worked out so well in the last game.

I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but it helps keep people hoping for them in DLC and doesn't kill them outright.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

It's either base roster or bust for characters like Isaac or Skull Kid. They wouldn't waste DLC development on niche characters like them

And here I thought I was good at baiting replies from people.

 

[T3Z3R1]

Alright, so far we got these guys for Nihilist theory:
@tehponycorn
@Shroob
@Noipoi
Fenriraga
@PK-remling Fire
@Jgt044
@Jchrono95
@Zinith (kinda, but not really)

We're always open whenever the rest of you want to transcend past your theorizing limits.
View attachment 166900

Put me in the list please.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Hi, haven't been on smashboards since 2015 and didn't like my old account so I made a new one.

Question: What are the chances for Shadow, Geno, and Bandana Dee in everyone's estimation? I'm really worried they won't make base roster because of the steve, Ken, and incineroar leaks but there's always hope for DLC and we could get them in base, but I think the chances are a lot less now.

Remember, Vergeben doesn't know everything. K. Rool was a complete surprise to everyone. Go in expecting nothing and you have the possibility of being shocked or surprised before release.

 

[Fane]

That didn't worked out so well in the last game.

Considering majority of DLC wasn't Ballot focused(probably all of it tbh) Sakurai more or less just went with characters that would be crazy additions like Cloud, Ryu, and Bayonetta. Very popular cut vets like Lucas, Roy, and Mewtwo. Then a single advertisement character in Corrin.

With the Ballot he literally has numbers on characters the playerbase wants to see in the game. Isaac and plenty of others are among the highest %'s from what we can gather, so to me, it'd make sense Sakurai would continue to, for the most part, ignore newer characters in favor of older ones that are hot picks among the community, as well... there's no 'guessing' if they'd sell well or not just judging from the numbers.

 

[Robertman2]

???
>Skull Kid
>Niche

Majoras mask (the remake alone) sold over a million copies. Niche?

Isaac has a retrademark going for him and is one of the few 1st party Nintendo franchises left that they can use for smash. It's very likely (based in what the trademark says) that Nintendo may be reviving Golden Sun. The series also sold over a million copies.

They are not niche characters lmao

The trademark means nothing. Otherwise, we would have had a new F-Zero and Eternal Darkness game by now.

Majora's Mask is pretty iconic though.

The Mask is iconic. Skull Kid himself? Not so much.

>Implying that one of the most iconic and popular LoZ characters and a character as requested as the likes of K. Rool, Bandana Dee, Ridley, etc... are 'niche' characters.

lol okay bud

If we're going to be brutally honest, making characters LIKE Isaac, Bandana Dee, Skull Kid, Geno, etc... as DLC compared to new ones like Rex/Pyra, ARMs characters, or what have you would be smarter in the long run.

Why?

They're super popular characters, therefore they'd rake in a LOT more money than newer characters that few people have actually familiarized themselves with.

Isaac is only super popular among early 20 somethings who have nostalgia for Golden Sun.

The newer characters would absolutely make more than the ones you mentioned, bar MAYBE Geno.

And Skull Kid was nowhere near as requested as K. Rool or Ridley, at least not until Loz18 ran his mouth like a moron.

 

[Deleted member]

>Skull Kid and Bandana Dee are as requested as Ridley and K.Rool were
You guys just make my day slowly but surely.

 

[amazonevan19]

Remember, Vergeben doesn't know everything. K. Rool was a complete surprise to everyone. Go in expecting nothing and you have the possibility of being shocked or surprised before release.

That's true. He hasn't been 100% right either but he's been the most reliable leaker so far so idk.

I just really hope Steve doesn't make it. I'm fine with Ken and Incineroar and the roster is already so jam packed and awesome! I really only need Bandana, Shadow, and Geno to get in for me to be perfectly content, and honestly I'd be willing to sacrifice Geno.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

>Skull Kid and Bandana Dee are as requested as Ridley and K.Rool were
You guys just make my day slowly but surely.

I mean, now they are. They certainly weren’t before, though.
Also let’s not kid ourselves here: Ridley fans were and always were a vocal minority. The majority of the community was firmly on the side of “too big”

 

[TheCJBrine]

The Mask is iconic. Skull Kid himself? Not so much.

At least Skull Kid is the personality

 

[Paperchampion23]

The trademark means nothing. Otherwise, we would have had a new F-Zero and Eternal Darkness game by now.

Except the trademark was updated to include home consoles and other new things, and it was also renewed 3 years early (most trademarks wait the 10 year period to save money).

What's going on with GS is VERY different from other retrademarks.

 

[osby]

Considering majority of DLC wasn't Ballot focused(probably all of it tbh) Sakurai more or less just went with characters that would be crazy additions like Cloud, Ryu, and Bayonetta. Very popular cut vets like Lucas, Roy, and Mewtwo. Then a single advertisement character in Corrin.

With the Ballot he literally has numbers on characters the playerbase wants to see in the game. Isaac and plenty of others are among the highest %'s from what we can gather, so to me, it'd make sense Sakurai would continue to, for the most part, ignore newer characters in favor of older ones that are hot picks among the community, as well... there's no 'guessing' if they'd sell well or not just judging from the numbers.

We don't know if this DLC is going to be ballot focused either. It's likely that it's going to be but there is always the possibility that ballot being a whole different ball game. I'm just saying trusting the DLC to fill the holes in people's ideal rosters might end bad, like the last time.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, now they are. They certainly weren’t before, though.
Also let’s not kid ourselves here: Ridley fans were and always were a vocal minority. The majority of the community was firmly on the side of “too big”

1-No, they really aren't lol
2-It was the literal opposite, "too big" was the vocal minority and it wasn't even a thing until Shokio tried to meme on Ridley.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

1-No, they really aren't lol
2-It was the literal opposite, "too big" was the vocal minority and it wasn't even a thing until Shokio tried to meme on Ridley.

You know, this is kinda offtopic, but do you think Shokio just secretly hates Metroid or something? I mean I was also firmly on the side of “too big” along with some other people and I was super happy with Ridley’s inclusion. Everyone seemed to be, except for Shokio, who said that if you like Ridley’s size reduction you aren’t a true Metroid fan.
That made me laugh.

 

[Robertman2]

Except the trademark was updated to include home consoles and other new things, and it was also renewed 3 years early (most trademarks wait the 10 year period to save money).

What's going on with GS is VERY different from other retrademarks.

Yeah, and we still aren't gonna get new games in the series. Unless it's like a complete reboot with different developers or something.

 

[KingofKoopas]

As someone who was actually on the internet shortly after the release of Smash 64, all I really remember from that time is that people really wanted Geno in "Smash for Dolphin".

There was internet in smash 64 days?

 

[Paperchampion23]

Yeah, and we still aren't gonna get new games in the series. Unless it's like a complete reboot with different developers or something.

That's a pretty big assumption lol

 

[The Legendary Beast]

Skull Kid's niche? He's like the second most popular villain in Zelda besides Ganon/Ganondorf himself.

 

[Chrono.]

I think there's room in DLC for both older popular characters and newer ones.

There was internet in smash 64 days?

Smash only came out in like what 99? So... Yeah.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Skull Kid's niche? He's like the second most popular villain in Zelda besides Ganon/Ganondorf himself.

That depends on whether you count Groose as a villain.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Uh, do you know the name by any chance? That sounds interesting as I had never heard of it before.

A quick Google search of "Sonic Smash Brothers" and you'll find it on Newgrounds.

Hi, haven't been on smashboards since 2015 and didn't like my old account so I made a new one.

Question: What are the chances for Shadow, Geno, and Bandana Dee in everyone's estimation? I'm really worried they won't make base roster because of the steve, Ken, and incineroar leaks but there's always hope for DLC and we could get them in base, but I think the chances are a lot less now.

I'll be very surprised and disappointed if Shadow isn't in at this point, there's so much pointing toward him and he makes sense to save for the last batch of reveals. Geno I'm betting on as the mystery Square rep as well seeing as this game has been satisfying longtime demands, and Bandana Dee I think has a good shot at DLC as he's still very wanted.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Hi, haven't been on smashboards since 2015 and didn't like my old account so I made a new one.

Question: What are the chances for Shadow, Geno, and Bandana Dee in everyone's estimation? I'm really worried they won't make base roster because of the steve, Ken, and incineroar leaks but there's always hope for DLC and we could get them in base, but I think the chances are a lot less now.

Shadow: pretty much thought to be the most likely echo after Ken, followed by Dixie. Most agree he'll likely be playable in the base game while virtually guaranteed if expanded to consider DLC.

Geno: seen as a strong possibility but not a lock, largely because of the vagueness yet general consensus among credible leakers that there is a new Square Enix character and Sakurai's statements following his addition as an Mii costume in SSB4. People often cite longevity, pointing at K. Rool and Ridley's histories in Smash as similar. The common scenario people imagine is that he is one of the first DLC characters.

Bandana Dee: No strong evidence for or against. Radio static among credible leakers and nothing suggesting him being in or out. Totally up in the air but most have conceded that, if he's in, he's probably DLC or simply not in the game at all outside a trophy.

 

[Fenriraga]

You and me dude. You and me. If it's Crono and ANYONE complain, they're stuly the most ungrateful person on earth for that Miracle.

Dude, who from Square DON'T you want?

Like seriously, you're so all over the place between Sora, Neku, Geno, and Chrono. Obviously I'd also be beyond excited for any of them, but you need to pick a number 1 already lol.

 

[Deleted member]

I want the Chocobo from Chocobo's Dungeon.

Why? 'Cuz he's cute, that's why.

 

[staindgrey]

Ok well I've developed an actual theory for Skull Kid - it contains 4 possibilities.

2. Skull Kid is a boss.
I don't think this is likely. Every boss in smash, both in Ultimate and previously, was either bigger than the playable characters or was a playable character. I don't see this changing, and Sakurai would have to take liberties to make even Majors Incarnation to he much larger than the playable characters. Also it's the least iconic form of Skull Kid and Majora's Mask. Yeah I don't see it happening but still a possibility.

I'd decided he'll likely be a boss since the Isabelle trailer and subsequent box theory.

Just because bosses have all been large up to this point doesn't necessitate that they all be large. It's possible that with an emphasis on bosses, as the second direct made clear, we'll likely have more variation than simply "hit big thing, avoid attacks". Skull Kid warping around and throwing attacks at you could make for a nice change of pace from the others, and much like the Monster Hunter dragon (don't know the name), we've seen his moon as an AT, which could be reused assets from his bossfight. Why would they put in the moon and not have it be a Skull Kid AT? Why would they replace the previous Skull Kid AT with another character who does essentially the same thing? Because he's a boss, coded to act very differently than the new pseudo-AI ATs in Ultimate.

It makes sense. Zelda, being the massive franchise it is, will probably need boss representation. But Ganondorf is already a playable character, and he's got his "Ganon" form as a final smash already. That leaves Skull Kid and Calamity Ganon and the two highest probabilities, I think. It also allows the team to create three or four boss attacks for a character that might be hard to craft an entire moveset for (note: I said hard, not impossible), then plug in a simple repetitive AI and you upgrade him from an AT while stopping short of all the work to make him a full-blown character.

 

[PsySmasher]

Hi, haven't been on smashboards since 2015 and didn't like my old account so I made a new one.

Question: What are the chances for Shadow, Geno, and Bandana Dee in everyone's estimation? I'm really worried they won't make base roster because of the steve, Ken, and incineroar leaks but there's always hope for DLC and we could get them in base, but I think the chances are a lot less now.

Remember that just because Vergeben said things about Incineroar, Ken, and Steve (somewhat), doesn't decrease anyone else's chances of making it in.

In terms of my own opinion:

Shadow has the best chance of making it in out of the three, especially since he'll most likely be an echo; the question is whether or not he'll be base or DLC; it depends on how many more characters they put in the base roster instead of DLC. (70% base, 85% if not in base as DLC)

Geno is a very mixed bag. If Vergeben is to be believed, Geno would make sense as the Square rep. However, despite his popularity, I'm not sure that Square would want to push a character that they haven't used in 2 decades. If the fan outcry is large enough though, I could definitely see him as DLC. But for the base roster, I have my doubts. (35% base, 70% if not in base as DLC)

Bandana Dee is my second most wanted newcomer at this point. But honestly, I don't know where Bandana Dee chances stand. He definitely has popularity (especially in Japan), but I don't know if that is enough for him to make it in to the base roster. He would be a great DLC candidate though. (30% base, 60% if not in base as DLC)

 

[Robertman2]

That's a pretty big assumption lol

Bigger assumption to assume Nintendo is gonna randomly revive the series.

Maybe it's just gonna be Golden Sun stuff in FE Heroes

 

[Fane]

Isaac is only super popular among early 20 somethings who have nostalgia for Golden Sun.

The newer characters would absolutely make more than the ones you mentioned, bar MAYBE Geno.

And Skull Kid was nowhere near as requested as K. Rool or Ridley, at least not until Loz18 ran his mouth like a moron.

Okay, what I'd meant by "As requested as K. Rool/Ridley" was mostly meaning: They're among the top contenders in popularity, not that they have the same fanbase as them.

Isaac also has been placing among the highest %'s among community ballots and worldwide ballots. Just look at his thread here, he's consistently being highly requested and demanded. Just because it's a 'bunch of 20 somethings who have nostalgia' doesn't mean he's niche or doesn't have a valid following.

No they wouldn't. Look at how 'phenomenal' Sm4sh's roster was. For the most part it went with fresh faces, and the newest character was DLC and probably sold the least. Old fan favorites would certainly bring in more money than new characters that less people are involved with and would be hyped about.

I know I'd be far more hyped about seeing Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, Isaac, Geno, Banjo & Kazooie, etc... than seeing Rex/Pyra, Spring Man, and other characters like that.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

So question: What’s the general consensus on the likelihood that assist trophies could become playable characters through DLC?
There’s no denying Sakurai’s a madman on some level or another.