Smash Ultimate Leak Discussion Thread

[Chrono.]

Isabelle uses an old song for her trailer, didn't mean anything.

And Simon as well.

All songs were from other CV games.

 

[Narr]

Guys... Maybe Incineroar just uses a non remixed theme in his trailer... (I trust Vergeben enough to believe that Incineroar is in the game)

i mean, simon's trailer doesn't contain a new remix, so it's possible

 

[TheCJBrine]

But, it will take a character that he says is playable shown in another way. Gematsu said Chrom was in and Chrom ended up being a cameo in Robin's Final Smash.

To be fair, apparently they may have had "Robin or Chrom" in an early presentation plan or something along that line according to SourceGaming, and Sakurai has talked about considering Chrom, even thinking of a moveset for him but thinking it was too similar to a mix of Marth and Ike.

hey, whaddya know, that's how Chrom is in Ultimate.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

And the people like me who never put any stock in the music theory continue to enjoy a normal night.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Most of what Vergeben got right was very easy to get.

Did you know that every time someone says this, God weeps for humanity?
You could make the argument that Ice Climbers and maybe Simon Belmont were easy to get, but everything else he predicted? **** no.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Isabelle uses an old song for her trailer, didn't mean anything.

I don't know... something seems fishy here. Maybe Sakurai knew about the music theory and switched it with next week's or something like that... It' a stretch but, you never know...(I'm really hoping that Incineroar is in the game, because I haven't found my main yet... And all of this speculation, made me grow to love that Chair Tossing Tony the Tiger)

 

[lightdrago]

But, it will take a character that he says is playable shown in another way. Gematsu said Chrom was in and Chrom ended up being a cameo in Robin's Final Smash.

Gematsu said that because Chrom was planned to be playable. Sakurai couldn’t think of a Moveset for him at the time and chose Robin and Lucina instead. His info was outdated.

And remember. Just cause a leaker missed a character doesn’t mean they’re wrong.

 

[Chrono.]

Didn't Greninja's trailer in 4 use the awful Victory Road remix?

Incineroar ain't gotta come with a Gen 7 or brand new remix.

EDIT: He didn't my b

 

[Untouch]

Usually when music posts are made, there's another blogpost later on in the day.

Spoiler

What if Incineroar's trailer is just going to drop today like everyone speculated? There some some huge pokemon news today...

 

[Luigi The President]

I think what me and others are trying to say is that this doesn't really seem to change anything. It's kinda like how we all knee-jerked and thought Coro Coro's 108 stages killed the box. The only thing that could kill Music Theory is Incineroar's confirmation at this point. This does cast some doubt on Music Theory, but only if you believe it to literally be impossible for Verge to be wrong, which there is no current evidence saying that he can't be wrong other than opinion and track record, which Gematsu also had going for it.

If Music Theory IS dead though...Sweet, Bandana Dee lives. Hopefully the box will get kicked the the curb next.

To be honest, I rarely do this as to not jinx myself but, I'm 100% believing in Verge here so I very much consider it dead. If I'm wrong, throw pie in my face.

Gematsu wasn't live. Gematsu was posted before E3, and then absolutely zero update until the next year. That's practically an entire year of development.
Vergeben is real-time. His information is up-to-date as he has real-time sources and updates us consistently.
IDK I just find this different.

 

[RileyXY1]

Didn't Greninja's trailer in 4 use the awful Victory Road remix?

Incineroar ain't gotta come with a Gen 7 or brand new remix.

No. Greninja's trailer used a remix of the XY Trainer Battle Theme.

 

[Narr]

Didn't Greninja's trailer in 4 use the awful Victory Road remix?

Incineroar ain't gotta come with a Gen 7 or brand new remix.

It uses the XY battle theme remix

 

[Jchrono95]

I feel like this is gonna be a repeat of "box vs blog" from earlier today where it just kinda ends with no one changing their mind and no resolution

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Didn't Greninja's trailer in 4 use the awful Victory Road remix?

Incineroar ain't gotta come with a Gen 7 or brand new remix.

Actually, that belongs to Mewtwo.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don't know... something seems fishy here. Maybe Sakurai knew about the music theory and switched it with next week's or something like that... It' a stretch but, you never know...

inb4 next week's is a "Sweden" remix.

 

[Chrono.]

Actually, that is belong to Mewtwo.

It uses the XY battle theme remix

Yeah idk why I mixed the two up lol.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

The way I see it, either we're not getting a Pokemon newcomer or the music stuff was hot air.

Could go either way, what I found interesting is that they delayed AC music to coincide with Isabelle. Music that her trailer didn't even use.

It's a little suspect.

I think it's just simply music was saved for some newcomers and for some it wasn't.

Most of what Vergeben got right was very easy to get.

Ah yes, we're back to no cuts, Ridley, Snake, Simon Belmont, and Isabelle, without getting anything wrong, all being "very easy" to guess. The "they were safe guesses!" revisionism to discredit leaks is always nice.

 

[Deleted member]

Most of what Vergeben got right was very easy to get.

You're over exaggerating the amount things that have had to change in the Music theory. The music theory is still consistent with not repeating franchises and is still consistent with songs coming before newcomers.

The answer to your question is that Gematsu was also 100% before Robin's trailer and he ended up wrong. I'm not saying you can't believe in Vergeben especially after he's gotten so much right. But I think it's kind of stupid to kill off a theory even though the actual Pokemon rep hasn't shown up yet.

I'll consider the theory dead when that happens. But for now, it's still around.

You're still putting more stock in a fan theory than a credible leaker, this is the Trophy Theory all over again for ****'s sake.

God, I really am gonna have to say "I told you so" three total times during this entire speculation period?

 

[Captain Fun]

To be honest I'm not even clear on what the music theory predicted. Anyone want to fill me in?

I'll never get tired of this image.

 

[Luigi The President]

So, first the theory had to accommodate Echoes by saying they don't count...
Now Vergeben can actually totally be false. He can, but the flip-flopping I see is incredible.
Also don't know why the choice of a new Pokemon rep would be the one thing Verge gets wrong anyhow.

C'mon gang.

 

[Jigglymaster]

You're still putting more stock in a fan theory than a credible leaker, this is the Trophy Theory all over again for ****'s sake.

God, I really am gonna have to say "I told you so" three total times during this entire speculation period?

No. I'm not putting more faith in the Music theory than Vergeben. I'm telling YOU to keep an open mind that it could be one or the other, or neither.

Neither is dead right now, they just contradict each other. You don't need to "tell me so" because it can go either way.

 

[vaanrose]

Yeah it's a Pokemon track.

Clearly a photoshopped Punch-Out song.

 

[Deleted member]

Food for thought, Isabelle used an old song in her trailer, sure, but the AC remix was specifically delayed until after for her reveal. To my knowledge, the theory is based on what's uploaded to the blog, not the trailers.

Unless that can be explained, I'm still willing to entertain the Music Theory. Keep in mind though I am not passing the theory off as fact, it is simply my own opinion, which does not make it true. Besides, Music Theory being dead would be good for me, as I want Bandana Dee and Mipha.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

inb4 next week's is a "Sweden" remix.

Oh man that would be amazing...


Anyways, despite putting my Cat Cena on the line, This is a darn good remix

 

[Deleted member]

So, first the theory had to accommodate Echoes by saying they don't count...
Now Vergeben can actually totally be false. He can, but the flip-flopping I see is incredible.
Also don't know why the choice of a new Pokemon rep would be the one thing Verge gets wrong anyhow.

C'mon gang.

People really just want Verg to be wrong. That's it, that's the only reason for this.

 

[NintenRob]

Thank you for this update!!! Finally something to shake things up a bit, people are starting to second guess themselves rather than assume they have the roster figured out.


Hopefully in the end, both Music Theory and Verg are wrong!

 

[WallyPalmer]

This is a big popcorn moment, and I enjoy it a lot, especially it either means no incineroar (who I personally dislike), or the Music theory is likely wrong, which gives merit to a whole slew of characters I want to see in!

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Did you know that every time someone says this, God weeps for humanity?
You could make the argument that Ice Climbers and maybe Simon Belmont were easy to get, but everything else he predicted? **** no.

Simon Belmont is definitely not an "easy guess" when Vergeben claimed him pre-E3, when the majority of people at the time considered Konami characters an impossibility and even fewer humored the prospect of getting any beyond Snake coming back. Belmont became the character "everyone predicted" after Vergeben gained credibility from E3 and Snake with the Bomberman AT showing that Konami was onboard.

When people claim Belmont was a "safe guess", they have to remember he only became "safe" after Vergeben.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Hopefully in the end, both Music Theory and Verg are wrong!

Uhh... why do you want Verge to be wrong?
Pretty sure a lot of us are hoping for him to be right...

 

[Luigi The President]

People really just want Verg to be wrong. That's it, that's the only reason for this.

I finally get how the Box Theory Warriors and the Fighters Of The Box feel now.

Genuinely it seems people have gone 100% with the "LOWER YOUR EXPECTATIONS" mindset and refused to even ENTERTAIN the concept of their "very few if beyond 2 newcomers" theories taking a dent.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Thank you for this update!!! Finally something to shake things up a bit, people are starting to second guess themselves rather than assume they have the roster figured out.


Hopefully in the end, both Music Theory and Verg are wrong!

This. We all (including myself) could use a push to second guess ourselves. It's called learning.

 

[PushDustIn]

Gematsu said that because Chrom was planned to be playable. Sakurai couldn’t think of a Moveset for him at the time and chose Robin and Lucina instead. His info was outdated.

And remember. Just cause a leaker missed a character doesn’t mean they’re wrong.

I don't think Gematsu said Chrom was planned. They said Chrom was playable.

After the game was released, Sakurai said that Chrom was planned but a unique moveset made him feel kind of lackluster so he went back to the drawing board and chose Robin instead.


Also, I watched Alax's video on the whole blog theory, I've read the document but I'm still under the impression that blog theory rests on the assumption that characters are revealed all the way until the end (2.9 average, so 6 characters left as there are also veteran blog posts to cover still) . However, I had two people say that wasn't the case yesterday. So what's the deal-o? Does blog theory just assume they will reveal characters up until the release date or not?

 

[TheCJBrine]

I honestly only care about Vergeben getting Minecraft right.

However, Ken seems to be real, and I wouldn't mind Incineroar so it's a meh as long as we get Minceraft.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Pretty sure Sakurai secured his bias this time after the backlash over Dark pit,
Unless you count Chrom (Sakurai's a huge Fire Emblem Fan)

I would imagine that Medusa would be different from Dark Pit anyways that she wouldn't cause backlash. That and there's people like me that wants her.

 

[Luigi The President]

Genuine question (sincerely, hope I don't sound rude);

People suddenly suspecting Verge could be wrong...what about Ken?
Do you believe the Ken leak or no?

 

[Fenriraga]

I just hope music theory can die after today.

Because even without Vergeben, assuming we wouldn't get a new Pokemon rep is just silly.

 

[Jchrono95]

Honestly I don't get why people attach themselves to these theories, and lesser extent credible leakers so much. It just seems like you're more than likely setting yourself up to be let down or proven wrong in some way.

Imo it's best just to accept that until proven wrong anything can be possible, and that someone saying something is unlikely doesn't necessarily mean they're saying you're an idiot for wanting or even expecting it

 

[iruchii]

Does blog theory just assume they will reveal characters up until the release date or not?

Sakurai himself said they would announce every character before the game released, so there's that.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Genuine question (sincerely, hope I don't sound rude);

People suddenly suspecting Verge could be wrong...what about Ken?
Do you believe the Ken leak or no?

Well, if you get one thing wrong, you were obviously never actually a leaker and were safe-guessing everything

 

[Guynamednelson]

Genuine question (sincerely, hope I don't sound rude);

People suddenly suspecting Verge could be wrong...what about Ken?
Do you believe the Ken leak or no?

Yes. I believe the rest of the Ryu clones are too different to be echoes.