Smash Ultimate general series discussion: Part three: The Legend of Zelda (with polls)

[thirsty-pocket]

Day 2! Today's topic is....
Imagine that Pig-beast Ganon replaced Ganondorf in Smash. How would you integrate his moveset? Would he be original, or similar to Dorf? Or would you keep Ganondorf instead?

I see no reason to replace Dorf with Pig Ganon. If we can have Zelda and Shiek, plus three Links, we can have Ganon and Ganondorf co-existing... besides, I have always wanted to see Ganondorf the man and Ganon the monster go head to head against each other both in Smash and in the Zelda series proper. Sort of a "battle your inner demons" scenario, except Ganondorf's not trying to overcome his inner demon, he's trying to control it.

Given the choice between the two though, I'd go with Pig Ganon... He's been around longer, and he's been in more games. In fact, every game that Ganondorf appears in, Ganon is there too, except for Wind Waker ( unless you count the puppet....... what a tease that was. )

Anyway, I would absolutely change the way Ganon functions.

Ganon's main weapon is the trident of power. He would be using that for a lot of his standard attacks, And his side special would involve him throwing the trident like a boomerang. If Ganon fails to catch his trident, it will just re-appear in his hands very shortly.

His neutral special would summon a flaming keese, up to three, and they all fly toward the nearest opponent, sort of like a slower, fiery version of Palutena's auto retical. His recovery would be a teleportation ability like Mewtwo's, but a little more telegraphed. He leaves a shadowey trail of where he will appear. Making a similar noise to what he did in a Link to the Past.

His down special would be a throwback to his first appearance, where he would gain temporary invisibility. The only thing that gives away his location are small, slow moving energy blasts that home in on enemies. They do damage, but they cause no flinching. Ganon cannot use his trident in this state. Getting hit will remove his invisibility temporarily.

I know people are tired of having triforce holders as the sole Zelda representation in Smash, but I do believe pig Ganon as a playable fighter is a pretty glaring omission. Dorf may technically be Ganon's mortal form, but having just a playable Dorf to me feels like having Shiek without Zelda.

 

[Deleted member]

There's an actual dedicated Zelda sub forum with this very topic pinned: https://smashboards.com/threads/favorite-zelda-games-which-are-yours.331237/
Spoiler alert: Mine's the original NES game.

Cool! Is their a Metroid one?

 

[thirsty-pocket]

Cool! Is their a Metroid one?

I don't see a dedicated Metroid board, but you can search through the Ninten zone board for any general Metroid threads: https://smashboards.com/forums/nintenzone.366/

 

[Quillion]

I know people are tired of having triforce holders as the sole Zelda representation in Smash, but I do believe pig Ganon as a playable fighter is a pretty glaring omission. Dorf may technically be Ganon's mortal form, but having just a playable Dorf to me feels like having Shiek without Zelda.

You know, a missed opportunity would to make Ganondorf the magic user and Ganon the heavy melee attacker. If they were able to pass off Mewtwo as being a light mage, they could make Ganondorf one as well.

Oh well, at least we got an awesome punching Ganondorf out of the deal!

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

While there is no Zelda character on the top of my wishlist. I sure as hell wouldn't be upset if Impa, Skull Kid, Hilda, the Champions, or Pig Ganon got in. Out of that list the ones I'd be more excited for are Impa (if it's based on her Hyrule Warriors design) could be a Shiek echo and Pig Ganon (based on his Link to the Past design) he is a classic Nintendo character he should honestly have been in Smash by now (but I get why he isn't because we have Dorf).

 

[Quillion]

Well, since I can't really think of new Zelda characters to put in Smash, I'll talk about alts.

• : Absolutely needs more alts representing the different costumes from BotW. Personally, I don't understand why the regular Hylian Tunic is the "recoloring" alt while the Champion's Tunic stays as the default. You couldn't dye the Champion's Tunic in BotW, so it would be better if the recolors were just reserved for the Hylian Tunic. However, the Links from other games SHOULD NOT be alts, which I'll get to in a second.
• : Unlike Link, the previous Zelda designs will absolutely work as alts. OoT, TP, SS, and BotW all deserve their due. However, the BotW Zelda alt would probably be reserved for either her blue royal dress or her white prayer dress. The shirt-and-pants look might not work on Ultimate's model.
• : Outset outfit and Engineer outfit. Not much else to say.
• : I suppose a Young Classic Link a la Zelda 1 might work, but I'd like to reserve Classic Link for a different purpose...
• : TP Ganondorf goes without saying, but WW Ganondorf should be in as well. However, the sword issue will be tricky to deal with. TP Ganondorf could definitely get his sword, but WW Ganondorf has twin mini-sabers instead of a longsword. Would WW Ganondorf need to use the Spaceworld sword instead? I don't know.
• Classic Link: I've been saying this a lot, but I'm still hoping for a Classic Link. He could have the same general stats as current Link, but lacks the double arrow, has regular bombs, has the Hookshot, and is left-handed. His default appearance would be Classic Link (yes, it would work; Classic Link can be surprisingly tall: exhibit A, exhibit B), but he would have OoT Link and TP Link as alts, complete with voice change. I just think it would be a great way to not only bring back the old Link moveset, but also to bring back the Link designs used in previous Smash games while also bringing in a Link design that has yet to properly be in Smash (Toon Link's classic palette doesn't count).

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Alright, day 3! I'm sorry for the delay, like I said I'm having a busy weekend.
Here's a topic I though about for a while myself: Redesign Link's moveset so that he uses more items/tools from the Zelda universe than he currently does.

 

[Quillion]

Alright, day 3! I'm sorry for the delay, like I said I'm having a busy weekend.
Here's a topic I though about for a while myself: Redesign Link's moveset so that he uses more items/tools from the Zelda universe than he currently does.

I'll extend this to all of the Links and just list the changes I have in mind.

• :
  • F-tilt: Spear jab. Uses the Soldier's Spear and jabs forward.
  • D-Smash: Claymore spin. Uses the Knight's Claymore and spins around.
  • D-air: Change to use Claymore but still Downward Thrust.
  • F-air: Jabs forward three times with the spear.
  • B-air: Change to be a backward slash with the sword.
  • U-Special: Revali's Gale+Glide. Does not trigger helpless.
  • S-Special: Stasis: Link pulls out his Sheikah Slate to create a flash of Yellow Light. Anyone caught in this light gets paralyzed.
  • N-Special: Fully charging the bow turns the arrow into a Bomb Arrow, giving it massive damage and KO potential.
• :
  • F-Smash: Uses the Great Fairy Sword in a wide horizontal swing.
  • U-Special: Deku Flower; transforms into Deku Link and uses his flowers to float.
  • S-Special: Goron Roll; transforms into Goron Link and rolls forward. Works like Jigglypuff's Rollout.
  • D-Special: Zora Barrier; transforms into Zora Link and activates his electric barrier, absorbing energy projectiles and being a good shake-off move like the post-Melee Shine. YL can jump out of it for more combo opportunities.
• :
  • U-Special: Hurricane Spin. Mashing the B-Button during this attack extends its duration and allows free movement, but also makes TL dizzy afterwards unless B is only pressed once.
  • S-Special: Deku Leaf. Creates a windbox projectile that can be used to edgeguard.
  • D-Special: Skull Hammer. On the sweet spot, this buries grounded opponents and meteor smashes aerial opponents.
  • Grab: Changed to the Grappling Hook instead of the Hookshot.
• And, of course, Classic Link would still be there to retain the old Bow, Boomerang, Hookshot, Bombs combo.

So yeah, I think all of the Links should have the sword and bow, but there's a lot of room to experiment with more specials. And BotW Link should have more weapons for his normals.

 

[thirsty-pocket]

Alright, day 3! I'm sorry for the delay, like I said I'm having a busy weekend.
Here's a topic I though about for a while myself: Redesign Link's moveset so that he uses more items/tools from the Zelda universe than he currently does.

I think Link's moveset is fine for the most part. In fact I feel like I was the only one in the world who thought "Champion Link" should stay the same instead of using runes and champion powers just for the sake of being different.

 

[zeldasmash]

Honestly, I think Zelda is good in everything, except in roster.

Stages are always something Zelda has excelled at in Smash consistently with them being some of my favorites to play in any Smash game. From Hyrule Castle in 64 to Temple in Melee to Bridge of Eldin in Brawl to Skyloft in Smash 4, Zelda is excellent in regards to stages. It's also really good in trophies as they represent a lot of Zelda's history.

The roster on the other hand....leaves things to be desired. Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are great but in terms of moveset, in particular Ganondorf, need a little bit of work. Ultimate improved almost all of these aspects (again Ganondorf) but it needs just a little more. But Young Link, Toon Link and Sheik? There are much better characters to represent those respective sides of Zelda. Young Link is Ocarina/Majora, but Ganondorf here is Ocarina Dorf so just replace Young Link with Skull Kid. Sheik is one shot that is completely irrelevant and shouldn't even be in this scenario due to Zelda. Impa should be here instead. Toon Link is the only one I can't see a replacement in his own side of the series, but he is another Link and would be a lot better to have a better one shot character like Ghirahim or Midna, two fan favorites.

Overall, it's like a 7/10. Great stages and the characters for Assist Trophies are pretty good, but the roster reps need more variety instead of 3 Link's and 2 Zelda's.

 

[Quillion]

I think Link's moveset is fine for the most part. In fact I feel like I was the only one in the world who thought "Champion Link" should stay the same instead of using runes and champion powers just for the sake of being different.

Personally, I just thought that Link should stay as his TP self, moveset and aesthetics both.

BotW Link doubly disappoints me: he is both too much of a change from the old Link and not enough to reflect the big changes that BotW brought.

 

[Oddball]

It needs Ganon and Impa added to the rosters.

I'd be fine with ditch one of the two smaller Links and Sheik though.

 

[Quillion]

It needs Ganon and Impa added to the rosters.

I'd be fine with ditch one of the two smaller Links and Sheik though.

I totally understand ditching Sheik since she's the sole Zelda one-shot. But wouldn't giving the other two Links different specials go a longer way than cutting either of them?

 

[_sneaK]

geno being added would be a massive slap in the face. One offs like Midna and Skull Kid come from widely acclaimed and recognizable games from a successful core franchise. Now I'm not saying I don't think Geno isn't cool or anything, but to be quite frank, he comes from this one tiny little game that I would argue most of the incredibly vocal geno band wagon has not played. Majoras Mask is one of the most recognizable icons of Zelda, and while in my opinion, Twilight Princess was not that great, it was an incredibly popular game. Granted Midna is an assist, but honestly in terms of more deserving, I think a one off from Zelda like Skull Kid deserves it far and above Geno.

 

[Prince Fury- Roaring Lion]

I voted just enough, but honestly wouldn't mind if the roster space from Fire Emblem was swapped with Legend of Zelda. Fire Emblem is a huge hit but I couldn't say it's more iconic than Zelda. With races such as Gorons, Zora, and Gerudo. The roster diversification alone with Zelda should lead to some more releases for this game.

 

[Oddball]

I totally understand ditching Sheik since she's the sole Zelda one-shot. But wouldn't giving the other two Links different specials go a longer way than cutting either of them?

Young Link and Toon Link to me basically represent the same thing.

I'd rather limit it to just younger version/older version.

 

[Demonfunds]

Really they only have 3 characters that are 100 percent original, and all of the characters are apart of the Triforce, Zelda deserves a new fighter.

 

[Quillion]

Young Link and Toon Link to me basically represent the same thing.

I'd rather limit it to just younger version/older version.

Still, it would be a lot better for Link to have the classic bow, boomerang, bombs, hookshot combo, while Young Link gets mask-based moves and Toon Link gets things like the Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, and actually uses the Wind Waker in combat.

 

[_sneaK]

Still, it would be a lot better for Link to have the classic bow, boomerang, bombs, hookshot combo, while Young Link gets mask-based moves and Toon Link gets things like the Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, and actually uses the Wind Waker in combat.

I agree, I wish Young link had a completely mask based moveset, it would've made his fighter much more interesting rather than a lame semi clone

 

[Quillion]

I agree, I wish Young link had a completely mask based moveset, it would've made his fighter much more interesting rather than a lame semi clone

If we need a Link semi-echo at all, we should at least get a Link that has a moveset based on the pre-BotW moveset with the hookshot, normal bombs, and no double arrow mechanic.

Then again, I kinda want Classic Link regardless...

 

[YoshiandToad]

Actually, the talk of Young Link changing to use his masks would go a long way to improving my overall outlook on Zelda representation since we'd get Gorons, Zoras and Deku Scrubs out the deal. Add Impa and...I dunno; Revali or Medli and that's pretty much the iconic Zelda races included.

I still can't count Sheik as a Sheikah though.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Alright, it's day 5! Yesterday I was super busy and unable to post, I'm really sorry.

Today's topic is:
Design a stage based on Hyrule Castle from Breath of the WIld

 

[Quillion]

Alright, it's day 5! Yesterday I was super busy and unable to post, I'm really sorry.

Today's topic is:
Design a stage based on Hyrule Castle from Breath of the WIld

The fight takes place in front of the Sanctum. There are platforms along the second floor of the sanctum tower, making a wide and fairly tall stage.

Every so often, one of three events takes place:

• A Guardian Skywatcher appears and flies around the area. If a fighter is caught in its spotlight, it points its laser sight at the victim for a few seconds before it fires, dealing 25 damage and killing Mario around 100. It can be destroyed or it will disappear if left alone.
• Two Guardian Turrets at the lowest level platforms appear, targeting two random fighters with their lasers. The only way to get rid of them is to destroy them.
• The cyborg Calamity Ganon appears as a stage boss. He can slash with his fire sword, slash with his triple claws, fire his cannon, throw his spear, or throw a fireball. Scoring the killing blow is an explosion that damages all but the killer and counts as a KO.

All of these events can be turned off with the hazard toggle.

I can't draw it, though. Hopefully someone else can draw their own idea.

 

[thirsty-pocket]

Alright, it's day 5! Yesterday I was super busy and unable to post, I'm really sorry.

Today's topic is:
Design a stage based on Hyrule Castle from Breath of the WIld

My mind is just defaulting to a moving stage since there's just too much to see in Hyrule Castle. I know it's not game accurate but I'd like to see Calamity Ganon smash through the walls and act as a stage hazard half way through it, and the divine beast lasers blasting him away after a short while.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Day 2! Today's topic is....
Imagine that Pig-beast Ganon replaced Ganondorf in Smash. How would you integrate his moveset? Would he be original, or similar to Dorf? Or would you keep Ganondorf instead?

I would choose Pig Ganon with an original moveset over a Falconish Ganondorf... but don't get me wrong, i love the Dorf (especially Ulimate Dorf) he's my favorite secondary since melee, it's just that i prefer when character movesets are more representative of the source material.

Speaking of moveset, for Pig Ganon, i would like to see one a bit like K. Rool's: Super heavy with projectiles.

I found this old dusty support thread a while ago, there was a great illustrated moveset done by Haibu. Tbh I can't think of anything better than this one:

Specials:

Spoiler: Normals

Edit: A bit too late for Ganon, sorry about that

 

[LoZ00]

The main thing that throws me off about the Zelda series is that we basically have only three characters, namely Link, Zelda and Sheik. Toon Link and Young Link derive from Link while Ganondorf derives from Falcon (which makes zero sense by the way, they should have made him derived from Ike at least). As long as I would like to see Impa, I’d rather get Tingle, as a unique fighter. Not to mention Skull Kid, my number 1 most wanted fighter...

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Day 6! Today's topic is...

Create a moveset (or at least part of a moveset) for Link from Skyward Sword

 

[thirsty-pocket]

I don't have a whole moveset idea, but back when I thought Skyward Sword Link being in Smash 4 was inevitable, I thought he would end up swapping out the boomerang in favor of the beetle.

 

[Ryan.]

Not enough because Impa exists.

 

[Quillion]

I don't have a whole moveset idea, but back when I thought Skyward Sword Link being in Smash 4 was inevitable, I thought he would end up swapping out the boomerang in favor of the beetle.

That and make it so that fully charged Smash attacks become Skyward Strikes.

I guess Sky Link could be a good echo choice for BotW Link, but I would still prefer a composite of Classic, OoT, and TP Link to fill the "old Link" niche. No, Young Link is not good enough.

 

[Sabertooth]

I voted for "Just enough", but only because I think 6 characters is good for Zelda. The lineup itself is...not good. It's amazing that to this day we don't have a Zelda character who's not just some form of Link, Zelda, or Ganon.

And this is coming from someone who can't wait to play as Young Link again.

I find it jarring, that Zelda had no additions since Brawl (if you count Toon Link, one could argue it was "just the new Young Link")

I used to think so too, but now that we have both, I find that harder to rationalize!

 

[Quillion]

I voted for "Just enough", but only because I think 6 characters is good for Zelda. The lineup itself is...not good. It's amazing that to this day we don't have a Zelda character who's not just some form of Link, Zelda, or Ganon.

It's not too hard to think about. Everyone who isn't Link, Zelda, and Ganon is either a one-shot or too inconsistent to be respected with a good portrayal.

Would having all these one-shots be respectful to Zelda's legacy years after they become outdated? That's the question to ask.

 

[Sabertooth]

Sure, why not? Sheik is a one-shot character, even if she's just Zelda in drag. People really love Skull Kid and Midna but they've already become outdated. I don't think it would be too weird.

 

[_sneaK]

Sure, why not? Sheik is a one-shot character, even if she's just Zelda in drag. People really love Skull Kid and Midna but they've already become outdated. I don't think it would be too weird.

I wouldn't say anything about anyone being outdated when Simon, Richter, and King K Rool were added not to mention the communities infatuation with similarly "outdated" characters like Isaac and Geno.

 

[Quillion]

I wouldn't say anything about anyone being outdated when Simon, Richter, and King K Rool were added not to mention the communities infatuation with similarly "outdated" characters like Isaac and Geno.

I'm less worried about fan demand and more if Zelda one-shots fit within the Smash team's roster rules.

Yes, they've been slowly changing the rules regarding third party characters, but they've kept the rules regarding Zelda characters the same for three games. Can they really change the Zelda roster's criteria?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I'm less worried about fan demand and more if Zelda one-shots fit within the Smash team's roster rules.

Yes, they've been slowly changing the rules regarding third party characters, but they've kept the rules regarding Zelda characters the same for three games. Can they really change the Zelda roster's criteria?

It's mere speculation whether or not the designers have rules or what they are.

 

[RineYFD]

I'm still confused as well why Fire Emblem has seven reps whilst Zelda hasn't gotten a new rep since Brawl.
I swear to god the only reason Chrom made it in, was because every FE fan was salty that he didn't get in but Lucina did.
Honestly, Chrom was like the Waluigi of Sm4sh when I think about it.
Anyways, enough about my Chrom rant.
I think Zelda should get one or two more reps. There's like so many characters to choose from like Skull Kid, Medli, Ravio, Lana, Impa, The Champions of Hyrule, hell even Pig Gannon.
I expect two reps this time. One for base roster(most likely Skull Kid) and one for DLC, if they ever do that.
I'm not even that much of a Zelda fan but LoZ has down so much for Nintendo and it's a shame that the series doesn't get the treatment it deserves in Smash. But again, FE got like Seven reps.

 

[Quillion]

I'm still confused as well why Fire Emblem has seven reps whilst Zelda hasn't gotten a new rep since Brawl.
I swear to god the only reason Chrom made it in, was because every FE fan was salty that he didn't get in but Lucina did.
Honestly, Chrom was like the Waluigi of Sm4sh when I think about it.
Anyways, enough about my Chrom rant.
I think Zelda should get one or two more reps. There's like so many characters to choose from like Skull Kid, Medli, Ravio, Lana, Impa, The Champions of Hyrule, hell even Pig Gannon.
I expect two reps this time. One for base roster(most likely Skull Kid) and one for DLC, if they ever do that.
I'm not even that much of a Zelda fan but LoZ has down so much for Nintendo and it's a shame that the series doesn't get the treatment it deserves in Smash. But again, FE got like Seven reps.

AGAIN, Zelda has a core recurring cast. Fire Emblem has only recurring side characters at best. It's not hard to figure out.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Day 7! Today's topic is....
Do you agree with the statement that Zelda from BotW was into research, and thus should not be fighter?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Day 7! Today's topic is....
Do you agree with the statement that Zelda from BotW was into research, and thus should not be fighter?

Well, we have Isabelle who was a "pacifist," so...