Smash Ultimate general series discussion: Part one: Super Mario (with polls)

[I'd Negæte That]

I would like a Gusty Garden Galaxy stage. I also think there should be more Super Mario Galaxy soundtracks.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Alright, Day 9! Again, I'm terrible sorry I was unable to post yesterday.

Today's topic is....
Imagine that somehow coins from Super Mario's design instead of Smash's design were used in gamemodes as alternatives. How would you feel? Could Super Mario coins be used in more creative ways instead?

 

[thirsty-pocket]

I don't play coin battle enough to have strong feelings about that. But I think the coins should keep the Smash Bros logo, but use the sound effects from Mario... I guess they do that already but I mean that the sounds are lifted directly from it instead of being just inspired by it.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Day 10!
Today's topic is...
If the Rainbow Road stage returned, would you rather keep it as it is or have it be Rainbow Road from a different Mario Kart game?

 

[WaddleMatt]

Day 10!
Today's topic is...
If the Rainbow Road stage returned, would you rather keep it as it is or have it be Rainbow Road from a different Mario Kart game?

It would be cool if they combined features of numerous rainbow roads here is an idea:

Have the platform reminiscent of the SNES version and then on the first stop have to avoid racers and a giant Chain Chomp like N64, the fly up the giant tunnel from GCN and do loops like in DS and Wii before landing on the moon like in 3DS then finishing up on Wii U Rainbow Road. It would be like a journey through Mario Kart History.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Finally got my home internet back so catching up with the questions:

I'm going to begin the next discussion with another controversial question:

If Waluigi was in Ultimate, would you feel like he represented the Mario spin-offs better than members of the current cast?

Waluigi inevitably would since he has little else to draw from, but whether he would represent it better depends on what you're counting as a Mario spinoff. Dr. Mario, Luigi, Yoshi and Wario all rep their own spinoff series, but if you're talking sports/party games we've technically only got Peach and Daisy with their forward smash repping Mario Tennis(Tennis racket), Mario Golf(golf club) and Super Mario RPG(Frying Pan).

Honestly with a single move as the main competition I'd hope Waluigi could do a better job of it.

Discussion question day 3: If they made Dr. Mario an echo fighter of Mario, would you be okay with a similar moveset from Doc?

I'd have been happier if they just made Doc a costume honestly. I could suspend my disbelief that Dr. Mario is firing fireballs instead of pills since we can now do that in Mario Odyssey anyway.

Alright everyone, day four! Today's topic is....

Choose a powerup from any Super Mario game that isn't currently an item and make it one. How would it work? What would it look like?

Thunder Cloud(Mario Kart Wii): Probably the most horrific item ever devised for Mario Kart. Much like a Gooey Bomb, the cloud is passed by touch but it hangs overhead of the poor sap who it's about to victimise.
Whoever has it when the cloud unleashes it's lightning gets shrunk and gets 'tripped'. The one advantage of the Thunder Cloud is your movement speed is increased greatly whilst you hold it.

No problem!
To tag someone, type @ and then their name. To tag me, say "@Mogisthelioma."

10/4/18: Day 5! I decided to pick a stage based topic for today in both threads.

Since we currently have lots of overworld-themed stages from Super Mario, remove two of them and replace them with two new Super Mario stages of your designing.

I'd remove Golden Plains and Paper Mario.

I'd add; Bowser's Castle complete with Lava Bubbles and Thwomp stage hazards. The bridge would be breakable as well but is reconstructed by Goombas, Koopa Troopas and Hammer Bros. in building gear after a certain time period.

I'd also add the Glitz Pit battle stage; a theatrical stage complete with an audience of excitable Toads and Koopa Troopas cheering you on. Occasionally Rawk Hawk will come along to try and dive bomb the fighters. He can be KO'd.

Day 6!
Today's topic is:
Imagine hat the Koopalings were seven fighters/echoes of their own. How would each one be different? Would they have different weight schematics, moves, or final smashes?

is a featherweight that would use tennis rackets(Superstar Saga) in his moveset, capable of launching projectiles back at opponents with greater force than they were thrown at him. He's a projectile heavy character, using bowling balls(Hotel Mario), Tennis Balls(Again Superstar Saga), Lava Bubbles(Super Mario World) and Water Geysers(New Super Mario Bros. U).

is a heavyweight who wields a hammer. Morton is slow but hits incredibly hard. Morton jumps like Little Mac carrying a heavy bag of rocks, but even just landing atop an opponent will cause damage. The shortest range of all the Koopalings, but has a sonic scream ability than can break shields if within range.

Is a lightweight who is surprisingly acrobatic and full of tricks. She can set up some traps with her special bracelet rings and even summon clones to attack her opponents. If the opponent hits a clone Wendy they'll take (very) minimal damage from the Spiny who was disguised as her. Of course hitting the real Wendy will automatically dispell the clones.

is a midweight speedster duo character, as Iggy is always riding atop a Chain Chomp. Whilst he's not particularly easy to KO, he's not very strong either outside his Chain Chomp buddy whom he rides atop. When seperated from the Chain Chomp Iggy is considerably easier to KO and far weaker than his brethren. In a pinch he can teleport a little with his magic.

is a heavyweight who takes after Bowser. He's capable of spinning across the stage, his Bowser Bomb causes shockwaves on either side that can temporarily stun the opponent(but with far less kill power than Bowser) and he even has a power long range move in the Bill Blaster for when he cannot keep up with speedier opponents! He's faster than Morton, but slightly weaker.

is a super featherweight who, much like Iggy is constantly riding atop another item; his ball. Attacks by firing balls and bombs at his opponent. Lemmy doesn't take much to KO, but he does have one of the biggest dodges in the entire game. His bombs can rack up some serious KO damage

is the most balanced of the Koopalings; he's a midweight fighter, who has several strong projectile attacks using his magic wand and can spit fireballs across the stage of his opponent. Like Yoshi he can flutterjump a little, and is no slouch when it comes to melee attacks either, having a strong shell spin attack. He can teleport short distances in a flash of lightning too.

Day 7! It's been a week!

For a one-week celebration, I have a creative idea:

Design your own Bowser's Castle stage! What game(s) would it be from? Would it have stage hazards? What music tracks would be ideal for having in the background?
And if you feel like going the extra mile, do the same for a Bowser Jr's playhouse/airship!

See day 5's answer for details on this one.

Alright, Day 9! Again, I'm terrible sorry I was unable to post yesterday.

Today's topic is....
Imagine that somehow coins from Super Mario's design instead of Smash's design were used in gamemodes as alternatives. How would you feel? Could Super Mario coins be used in more creative ways instead?

Ironically despite getting rid of Golden Plains, I think the 100 coins golden power up would be pretty nifty in Coin Battle; the current leader would be gold in colour and have a mild attack bonus, but could still collect coins. Golden players would drop more coins when hit than other fighters.

This would be a great visual cue for who is in the lead and the others must decide if it's worth fighting the leader for a bigger bonus but risk being KO'd easier or going for the easier targets and money with the other non golden players.

Day 10!
Today's topic is...
If the Rainbow Road stage returned, would you rather keep it as it is or have it be Rainbow Road from a different Mario Kart game?

There's not a LOT you can really do with Rainbow Road as a Smash stage, but it'd be pretty neat if we somehow incorporated the N64's Chain Chomp rolling across the stage as a toggable hazard. I'd like to see constellations of the Mario cast in the background though. That'd be neat.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I just want to say that this will be the last discussion post I am going to make. After this, feel free to ask your own questions that you're curious about, and continue the discussion!

For a final parting topic....
How enthusiastic (or not enthusiastic) would you be if Waluigi became an alternate costume of every fighter, regardless of hitboxes, limbs, weapon, etc?

 

[Frizz]

Not enthusiastic at all. That'd be way too memey.

But if it was incorporated in a separate mode called something like "Waluigi Time"? I'd be somewhat okay with it. I wouldn't dare touch it myself, but... to each their own.

 

[thirsty-pocket]

I just want to say that this will be the last discussion post I am going to make. After this, feel free to ask your own questions that you're curious about, and continue the discussion!

For a final parting topic....
How enthusiastic (or not enthusiastic) would you be if Waluigi became an alternate costume of every fighter, regardless of hitboxes, limbs, weapon, etc?

What... what do you mean... like they get his colors or... they literally become Waluigi?
That's a super weird idea if the latter. I probably would ignore it, If the former, i'd still ignore it. I don't often play in alts unless it's an actual costume change, and as someone who never saw the appeal in the Mario spinoffs, Waluigi is a character I have almost no fondness for. I saw the guy in Nintendo Power Magazine as a kid, back when I was young and naive and thought there was a real possibility of a Mario game with Wario as an Antagonist, and thought "Oh cool, I bet those two are going to be the bad guys in a lot of Mario games in the future" ...Nope. Not only did I never see Waluigi in a main Mario title, I didn't even see him in a Wario game. The only time I'd see Waluigi is when a friend invited me over for Mario Kart, and my meme-lord friend who likes the character ironically would play as him, and all I really got from him was "lanky penguin voiced man"

 

[Sabertooth]

Is it fair to say that Waluigi and Geno are the two most wanted Mario characters that we don't have yet?

I'd personally love them both.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I just want to say that this will be the last discussion post I am going to make. After this, feel free to ask your own questions that you're curious about, and continue the discussion!

For a final parting topic....
How enthusiastic (or not enthusiastic) would you be if Waluigi became an alternate costume of every fighter, regardless of hitboxes, limbs, weapon, etc?

I mean it'd be a little amusing at first. "Everyone is Waluigi" would be the new Mario meme, but I question how some of those alts would look.
I guess Waluigi's biggest thing is his ability to cheat and there's no greater cheat than being EVERYONE IN THE GAME. If you only play yourself you can't lose after all...

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Personally I feel like Waluigi would be fine, but there are seriously another 50 fighters I would choose to have instead of him.

 

[Oddball]

For a final parting topic....
How enthusiastic (or not enthusiastic) would you be if Waluigi became an alternate costume of every fighter, regardless of hitboxes, limbs, weapon, etc?

No, man. You're doing it backwards. Every character isn't Waluigi. Waluigi is every character.

He doesn't get different pallets, he gets other costumes.

Biker Waluigi, Dr. Waluigi, Swimsuit Waluigi, Wireframe Waluigi, Zer Suit Waluigi, Waluigi in anime looking armor with a sword ...

 

[Mogisthelioma]

So much Waluigi.

I'm interested: If Kamek was ever added, would he be a Super Mario fighter, or a Yoshi fighter?

 

[Manonymous]

A Yoshi fighter.
And for his Up B, he could use his broom.

 

[Sabertooth]

Kamek is the main villain of the Yoshi series, so let's throw it a bone here. It's too bad Giga Bowser is the way it is now, because that would've been perfect for Kamek's final smash, only with Baby Bowser instead.

 

[thirsty-pocket]

So much Waluigi.

I'm interested: If Kamek was ever added, would he be a Super Mario fighter, or a Yoshi fighter?

I actually had a dream that we got Kamek as a fighter this morning, but the trailer started out as an homage to the Yoshi series.
But then, in that same dream we also got some random Boxer I never heard of, with an awkward trailer that made it look like we were getting Mr. Sandman at first... Then we got a very awful looking reveal for Geno, where the CG graphicsd looked like a foreign McDonalds commercial about Sonic toys.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I actually had a dream that we got Kamek as a fighter this morning, but the trailer started out as an homage to the Yoshi series.
But then, in that same dream we also got some random Boxer I never heard of, with an awkward trailer that made it look like we were getting Mr. Sandman at first... Then we got a very awful looking reveal for Geno, where the CG graphicsd looked like a foreign McDonalds commercial about Sonic toys.

That's an....interesting dream.

Personally I would want Kamek to be a Yoshi fighter, since after that the only viable Yoshi fighter is, off the top of my head, Yarn Yoshi as an echo. I just wish Yoshi got another fighter.

 

[Quillion]

That's an....interesting dream.

Personally I would want Kamek to be a Yoshi fighter, since after that the only viable Yoshi fighter is, off the top of my head, Yarn Yoshi as an echo. I just wish Yoshi got another fighter.

It's a cool idea, but Kamek isn't exactly relevant in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Sabertooth]

But he's in pretty much every Mario game and serves as the main villain of the Yoshi series, meaning he's probably set to appear in Crafted World. Kamek is one of the few Mario characters who has always been relevant.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

But he's in pretty much every Mario game and serves as the main villain of the Yoshi series, meaning he's probably set to appear in Crafted World. Kamek is one of the few Mario characters who has always been relevant.

I think the argument that destroys Kamek's chances is that despite being a major Yoshi character, he still counts as a Mario universe character, and most people are fed up with them.

Earlier today I saw someone suggest that the Luma should be removed from Rosalina's moveset, and she should just be Rosalina. I thought that was a great idea. Who agrees?

 

[Manonymous]

I think the argument that destroys Kamek's chances is that despite being a major Yoshi character, he still counts as a Mario universe character, and most people are fed up with them.

Earlier today I saw someone suggest that the Luma should be removed from Rosalina's moveset, and she should just be Rosalina. I thought that was a great idea. Who agrees?

Not me.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think Rosalina's moveset is incredibly boring, so Luma's the one thing making her stand out. I don't see the point in removing him if all he does is help.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I think Rosalina's moveset is incredibly boring, so Luma's the one thing making her stand out. I don't see the point in removing him if all he does is help.

This. Rosalina by herself doesn't seem to offer much. I guess you got the item pull but tbh it's the only interesting move of hers to me aside from Luma.

What would Rosalina do in place of Luma? Her moveset is sort of built around being a puppeteer.

 

[Sabertooth]

It speaks volumes that her entire moveset is based on abilities that Mario has. Using a launch star, shooting star bits, collecting a Power Star...

That's just what happens when a character is designed solely to be marketable.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

It speaks volumes that her entire moveset is based on abilities that Mario has. Using a launch star, shooting star bits, collecting a Power Star...

That's just what happens when a character is designed solely to be marketable.

Agreed. Rosa was only added for moveset potential. But her moveset could be completely different if they wanted it to be. Since she's a relatively new fighter if they ever heavily changed it I on't think many people would be distressed. It's entirely possible for her to have an amazing moveset that doesn't revolve around Mario's items or a luma.

 

[Quillion]

Rosalina's moves without Luma could be buffed, but I still like having Luma around.

But in regards to her relevance, she has three main series appearances under her belt, one of them being a fully playable character. She's about as much of a core character as Bowser Jr. at this point.

 

[Sabertooth]

In response to that, I'm gonna quote what I said in the Kirby thread.

I feel like both Bandana Dee and Rosalina both share the trait of appearing often, but not in any substantial way. I already went into detail on how I feel about Dee's role in the games he appears in, but Rosalina fits that mold as well after the first Galaxy. She never truly does anything and you could always remove her without changing much about the game. Even in 3D World she's just a bonus character who has no bearing on anything. I feel that if Rosalina can get in, Bandana Dee sure can.

Rosalina has a lot of appearances in important games, but she herself does not make important appearances except for the first Galaxy. They're cameos.

 

[Quillion]

In response to that, I'm gonna quote what I said in the Kirby thread.

Rosalina has a lot of appearances in important games, but she herself does not make important appearances except for the first Galaxy. They're cameos.

Define "important." Are you looking for someone with an effect on the plot, someone with presence in marketing, or someone who's a major playable character? I'd say fulfilling just one of those fulfills being important.

 

[Rocketjay8]

Define "important." Are you looking for someone with an effect on the plot, someone with presence in marketing, or someone who's a major playable character? I'd say fulfilling just one of those fulfills being important.

Heck, I would say that Peach is a cameo character with his logic. She always gets kidnapped in the beginning, bearly appears in the middle, and in the end, gives a kiss to Mario.

 

[Sabertooth]

Peach is the catalyst for the plot, though. A living MacGuffin if you will. You can take Rosalina out of all the games she appears in, except for the first Galaxy, and literally nothing would change.

Many cite 3D World as an example of her major appearances, but if you took her out of the game it would still be the exact same adventure, just without a character who can double jump whenever. I would maybe change my tune if she were highly advertised and involved from the beginning, but she's a secret character you can't even use until Bowser is already defeated. She's great to have and I enjoy playing as her, but it's misleading to claim that she's important.

 

[Rocketjay8]

Peach is the catalyst for the plot, though. A living MacGuffin if you will. You can take Rosalina out of all the games she appears in, except for the first Galaxy, and literally, nothing would change.

Many cite 3D World as an example of her major appearances, but if you took her out of the game it would still be the exact same adventure, just without a character who can double jump whenever. I would maybe change my tune if she were highly advertised and involved from the beginning, but she's a secret character you can't even use until Bowser is already defeated. She's great to have and I enjoy playing as her, but it's misleading to claim that she's important.

You can replace Peach with Daisy and the game will still be the same. Nintendo made Peach kind of obsolete thanks to this.

Nintendo even replaced their main mascot with his brother in two games for goodness sakes.

In 3D World, there is no reason to pick Mario when Luigi is better than him in almost every way. Luigi plays almost the exact same as Mario except for his higher jump.
Guess this means that Mario and Peach aren't important. And they are the main characters!

 

[Sabertooth]

NSMBUDX: Nintendo had to straight-up create a new power-up just to avoid removing Peach from her role in that game. Thank you for proving my point. And yes, you could replace Peach with Daisy theoretically, but my point was that you couldn't just outright remove her and you still can't.

Luigi U and Luigi Galaxy: For both of these, the entire gimmick is that you're playing as Luigi. That's the whole point of the game. If Mario were there that would defeat the purpose.

3D World: Okay, I already said that Rosalina would have had a greater presence (obviously) if she'd been there from the start and appeared in all of the promotional material, including boxart, for the game just like the other four characters. When I think of 3D World, I think of a big 3D romp starring the cast of SMB2: Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad. And then I think oh yeah, Rosalina was there too. Remove Luigi, Peach, or Toad and the cast is no longer an homage to SMB2, plus we'd all be wondering why that character isn't playable.

You're trying to get too technical here. Look at the bigger picture: take all of Rosalina's appearances and think critically about just how substantial they were. Sometimes just being a "fully playable character" isn't really much for a game's overall identity.

 

[YoshiandToad]

In terms of story you need; a protagonist(Mario), an antagonist(Bowser) and a conflict(Peach).

Rosalina isn't any of these, so no she's not as important as these guys or the other characters that occasionally fill those roles like Luigi(Protagonist), Yoshi(Protagonist), Bowser Jr(Antagonist) or Wario(either depending on the setting). She fleshes out the Mario world a bit, but she's not really anymore important than say Nabbit or Pauline are who have had similar roles to her of a weird rare extra playable, or heavily promoted NPC.

You can like Rosalina regardless. Heck, I love Captain Toad, but his role in Odyssey and Galaxy isn't that important outside being a major NPC who helps Mario along. Treasure Tracker and 3D World may be different stories however.

Being a secret character is neat, but I get what Sabretooth says in as much as she's only unlocked after you beat the whole game making her absent for the entire plot of the game. Neat extra though.

Shame she missed out on Odyssey. With Mario flying into space for the plot it's kind of a shock she didn't put an appearance in.

 

[smashingDoug]

I think it could be fine with some more newcomers. But it’s fine how it is.

The only character who really should be in now is King Boo.

 

[Quillion]

Sabertooth : What's your opinion on Bowser Jr. vanishing from the main Mario series after Galaxy 2?

 

[Sabertooth]

Well, he hasn't really vanished, has he? It sort of depends on what you consider to be "main series" because even though he's been gone from 3D Mario for a long time now, he still appears in a lot of important games.
*He's still the primary henchman in the NSMB games. Granted these games are pretty old now.
*He played an actual story role--twice over, in fact--in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam.
*He was the main villain of Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle. This isn't a main series game but as far as the Mario library goes, it's a pretty important and unique one if you ask me.
*There's the upcoming Bowser Jr's Journey on 3DS.

So yeah, I don't really think of Jr as "absent", more like they just shifted his role around to only appearing when necessary. That's sort of a problem the Mario series has in general; it has this whole gallery of memorable characters that we get to see in the spin-offs, but never in the real adventures. Bowser Jr actually gets off easy here, as I'm sure a lot of people would love to see Wario, Daisy, Birdo, Waluigi and the like show up every now and then in the big 3D Mario games. Sadly Nintendo is just really conservative with the extended Mario cast for whatever reason.

This is a problem that plagues Rosalina as well because like YoshiandToad said, Odyssey would have been a great time for her to reappear and gain some development. That concept art of her with the guitar was intriguing. Mario even goes to space and collects Star Bits for Pete's sake! But alas, maybe she'll get her chance in Odyssey 2.

 

[Rocketjay8]

Well, he hasn't really vanished, has he? It sort of depends on what you consider to be "main series" because even though he's been gone from 3D Mario for a long time now, he still appears in a lot of important games.
*He's still the primary henchman in the NSMB games. Granted these games are pretty old now.
*He played an actual story role--twice over, in fact--in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam.
*He was the main villain of Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle. This isn't a main series game but as far as the Mario library goes, it's a pretty important and unique one if you ask me.
*There's the upcoming Bowser Jr's Journey on 3DS.

So yeah, I don't really think of Jr as "absent", more like they just shifted his role around to only appearing when necessary. That's sort of a problem the Mario series has in general; it has this whole gallery of memorable characters that we get to see in the spin-offs, but never in the real adventures. Bowser Jr actually gets off easy here, as I'm sure a lot of people would love to see Wario, Daisy, Birdo, Waluigi and the like show up every now and then in the big 3D Mario games. Sadly Nintendo is just really conservative with the extended Mario cast for whatever reason.

This is a problem that plagues Rosalina as well because like YoshiandToad said, Odyssey would have been a great time for her to reappear and gain some development. That concept art of her with the guitar was intriguing. Mario even goes to space and collects Star Bits for Pete's sake! But alas, maybe she'll get her chance in Odyssey 2.

I think that if she was in Odyssey, she would steal the spotlight from Pauline. Pauline hadn't made an appearance since 2013 and she was a bland, damsel in distress that got replaced with Peach. Rosalina already made an appearance in the 3d World and the entire postgame centered around Galaxy.
I liked the post-game of 3d World, but I thought it had way too much Galaxy nostalgia pandering.

If Link can ride a motorcycle through the fields of Hyrule, Rosa can be a guitarist in Odyssey 2.

 

[Quillion]

That's sort of a problem the Mario series has in general; it has this whole gallery of memorable characters that we get to see in the spin-offs, but never in the real adventures. Bowser Jr actually gets off easy here, as I'm sure a lot of people would love to see Wario, Daisy, Birdo, Waluigi and the like show up every now and then in the big 3D Mario games. Sadly Nintendo is just really conservative with the extended Mario cast for whatever reason.

This is a good thing, though. I like that the main series doesn't get so bloated and so has room to introduce new characters.

And Rosalina sticks around for the spinoffs, so I don't see how you think she has vanished from the main series.

 

[Sabertooth]

I don't think you're really reading what I'm saying. Rosalina makes lots of appearances in both the spin-offs and sometimes in the main series. I never said she vanished, where are you getting that?

Also that sentence is just completely nonsensical, taken completely at face value. A character can disappear from the main games yet still appear in spin-offs.

I don't really know what you're trying to say. Spin-off appearances =/= main series roles that give a character purpose. There's a substantial difference between Bowser Jr's appearance in New Super Mario Bros versus his appearance in Mario Tennis Ultra Smash.