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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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D

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As I said (because i’m assuming this is directed at me) there was no offense intended. I am merely speaking to what I believe to be the truth, which is that opening Smash up with 3rd parties adds more in terms of stages, music, and characters than adding a character from a Nintendo series that already ha aplenty do characters, stages, and music.

Sorry if it upset you, but that’s simply what I think we’re looking at right now.
There was no offense intended in my post either. However, I do think your post kinda comes off as trying to tell people that your wants for third-party are objectively better than their wants for more first-party.

All of the things you listed third-parties bringing? First-parties could bring those too. It doesn't need to be exclusive. Me personally? I'd happily have the rest of this DLC be things like more Zelda and Kirby than 3rd party content. Does that make my wants objectively better? Of course not, and it'd be a little rude to try and suggest so IMO.
 

culumon

Smash Apprentice
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yes, absolutely. third party characters are fine BUT they need to have some major connections to nintendo. pac-man and sonic are arguably the only ones that get a pass because they're pac-man and sonic, but characters like ryu, snake, and bayo really stretch it, and characters like cloud and joker absolutely do not need to be here, even if i actually like joker
I mean, whether you or I like it or not, per the terms Sakurai has set it turns out they don't NEED to have major connections. Trust me, my personal preference is almost always towards Nintendo-related third parties - it's partially why I wish we'd gotten Terra before Cloud, why I hope we get Banjo & Kazooie before Steve, and why the prospect of getting Dante before Phoenix Wright is my personal nightmare scenario. I say partially because I also happen to just outright prefer Terra, Banjo and Phoenix to their competition anyhow. If the Nintendo purist buried deep within me had his way, wild card third parties with practically no connection to Nintendo would be kept to an absolute minimum... but I'm not the one making the game. Sakurai's vision for the series has become "Gaming All-Stars", and it's gonna stay that way for the foreseeable future. I'm not telling anyone they have to like or agree with that as a creative decision, but I do think it's worth divorcing what Smash has become, in the present, from the platonic ideal of Smash in our heads.

I think you downplay Bayo and Ryu's connections to Nintendo, too. The various SNES ports of Street Fighter II have sold over 12 million accumulatively, and Turbo wound up one of the few games to make its way onto the SNES Mini. Ryu's been immortalised as an icon of the SNES just as much as he is one for the arcades. And I'd argue Bayo is a crucial part of modern Nintendo and a much more appealing option when it comes to representing this specific, unique window in Nintendo time than some of her contemporaries. I'd argue they definitely belong in a "Nintendo All-Star" lineup, although I guess this is where third parties muddy the water. Everyone's criteria for whether they count among the Nintendo family is going to be different. And everyone's criteria for whether or not that even matters in the first place is going to be different, too.
 
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Boy, do we have match for you tonight ladies and gentlemen!

In this corner, we have people who say Smash should focus on first parties!

And in this corner, we have people who say Smash is a celebration of all gaming history!

It's really heating up now, folks! Let's see where this goes on the next episode of-say it with me now-

POINTLESS! INTERNET! ARGUMENTS!
And on the third corner, JDCabrera is getting hyped over a four in an avatar!
 

Wyoming

Connery, Sean
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"No personality" my ***.
Anything else? A 3 second easter egg where he says nothing is neat but doesn't really show me anything substantial.

Does he speak in cutscenes? Have relationships?
 

DaybreakHorizon

The guy who predicted Sora as Fighter 11
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Man imagine all this discussion happening and we don't even get Ryu Hayabusa or Doomguy.

Will we all feel silly.
I won't. This is a place for discussion and argument, and this is a discussion with arguments.
Ah, nice to see people dumping on other's prefered character choices completely unprovoked.

What is bottom of the barrel to some of you is not to others, and NGL, I would very happily take those "bottom of the barrel" characters over some of these third-parties that for me personally, I have zero interest in.

People who don't want third party being all the DLC is aren't demonizing third-parties, they just have a different preference. :/
Having different preferences is fine with me. My problem comes from when people try to pass off their opinions as fact and only have vague arguments to support them.
 

MrPowerfulJeans

Smash Cadet
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Man imagine all this discussion happening and we don't even get Ryu Hayabusa or Doomguy.

Will we all feel silly.
Yeah, you guys will be all shocked when my boy GameCube Controller becomes playable in Smash. >: )

Gives using the GameCube Controller for Smash a whole new meaning
 
D

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Anything else? A 3 second easter egg where he says nothing is neat but doesn't really show me anything substantial.

Does he speak in cutscenes? Have relationships?
Samus never speaks and she has a personality.
 

Double K

Smash Lord
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Anything else? A 3 second easter egg where he says nothing is neat but doesn't really show me anything substantial.

Does he speak in cutscenes? Have relationships?
tfw Link, Samus, Mario and like, 1/3 of the cast have no personality
 

Shroob

Sup?
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Anything else? A 3 second easter egg where he says nothing is neat but doesn't really show me anything substantial.

Does he speak in cutscenes? Have relationships?
Does Link speak in cutscenes? Because until OoT, Link's personality boiled down to "Elf boy who stabs things and rescues the Princess."


Beyond that, you have his over the top gore of Stomping in heads and grinding them to dust, or just general "ANGER" moments.



If that's not a personality, I don't know what it.
 

Kingslime304

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I think the Legend of Zelda is one of those series where you thought the story was gonna be complex, filled with down-to-earth, deep themes that fit together in a mature environment as a game for all ages, then I found out the whole series usually stems with being about a hero needing to defeat the villain to save the land. Not saying the stories are bad at all, just meant that they're a bit more basic than I originally thought it was gonna be.

Heck I thought the same thing for Castlevania too.
 
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Alternis

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After seeing all this debate, I'm glad I've taken the "come what may" stance. There are characters I'd love to see, sure, but I can't control the world. I'll just assume they're not getting in Smash and take whatever characters they add without whining. With Sakurai at the helm, I can be assured the characters will be well made and have fun movesets that draw in fun references where possible. Channeling Scoliosis Jones Scoliosis Jones here, but Smash is a video game. Its entire purpose is to be fun to play, first and foremost. People, when speculating online, can enjoy it, I know I do. But we have to remember to take a step a back once in a while. It's just discussion about a silly game. Getting too emotional or defensive in arguments is a waste of everyone's time.

This turned into some rambling, but I wanted it off my chest.
 
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DaybreakHorizon

The guy who predicted Sora as Fighter 11
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Anything else? A 3 second easter egg where he says nothing is neat but doesn't really show me anything substantial.

Does he speak in cutscenes? Have relationships?
DOOM Guy has as much of a personality as Frisk does. Both of them barely speak, if ever, but their personality comes across through the gameplay of their games. People have said this better than myself, so if you can't understand that, then that's on you.
Yeah, you guys will be all shocked when my boy GameCube Controller becomes playable in Smash. >: )

Gives using the GameCube Controller for Smash a whole new meaning
I liked this post solely because of your avatar. The "Thanos X" meme isn't really funny, but that one made me chuckle.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
After seeing all this debate, I'm glad I've taken the "come what may" stance. There are characters I'd love to see, sure, but I can't control the world. I'll just assume they're not getting in Smash and take whatever characters they add without whining. With Sakurai at the helm, I can be assured the characters will be well made and have fun movesets that draw in fun references where possible. Channeling Scoliosis Jones Scoliosis Jones here, but Smash is a video game. Its entire purpose is to be fun to play, first and foremost. People in speculation can enjoy it, I know I do. But we have to remember to take a step a back once in a while. It's just discussion about a silly game. Getting too emotional or defensive in arguments is a waste of everyone's time.

This turned into some rambling, but I wanted it off my chest.
It’s fine.
I completely agree with you.
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
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Anything else? A 3 second easter egg where he says nothing is neat but doesn't really show me anything substantial.

Does he speak in cutscenes? Have relationships?
One of his death animations, where he falls in lava, is putting all the effort he has to do one final action, reference Terminator 2. Honestly though, what else do you need? You have a character who's entire shtick is "YAY MURDER!" who takes immense joy in brutally killing ****. They made it work for Ridley after all
 

Wyoming

Connery, Sean
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Does Link speak in cutscenes? Because until OoT, Link's personality boiled down to "Elf boy who stabs things and rescues the Princess."


Beyond that, you have his over the top gore of Stomping in heads and grinding them to dust, or just general "ANGER" moments.



If that's not a personality, I don't know what it.
I am not paying Canadian gaming prices for Link though.

It is a personality. Just a very 90s one to me.
 

KarneraMythos

Smash Champion
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tfw Link, Samus, Mario and like, 1/3 of the cast have no personality
When we say "personality", do we mean award-winning movie oscar performances with realistic, gritty protagonists with rough lives that we can relate to? Or tropey characters that range from endearing to annoying? You don't need to be this deep and complex character to be interesting and likable. Whether or not Doomguy has a "personality" doesn't matter so much as he has plenty of characterization already. He's not the mindless meathead some people make him out to be.
 

LetterO

Smash Lord
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Anything else? A 3 second easter egg where he says nothing is neat but doesn't really show me anything substantial.

Does he speak in cutscenes? Have relationships?
He's in Hell surrounded by hellspawns and demons. Who's he going to have a relationship with?
 

Double K

Smash Lord
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WAIT GUYS I GOT IT LETS GO DEEPER

Steven Universe with the Power of the Crystal Gems!

Steven Universe vs Taric vs Jem vs Phosphophyllite

Bowser and Ridley vs KAmen Rider Ryuki and Ryu and Ryu Hayabusa!

Wendy and Wendy against the Burgrer King Artoria Pendragon
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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Listen, I am a Nintendo fan at heart, through and through. I was literally prescribed video games to enhance my hand-eye skills. I grew up on Sega Genesis, N64, GameCube...I only hopped onto the 360 because my friends in middle school had it and I wanted to play online.

I’m a huge Nintendo fan. I play far more Nintendo than other consoles. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford all 3 consoles, which is something not everyone can do.

However, it is narrow minded to say something to the affect of Snake or Cloud not having the right or position to be in Smash. It’s a gross misrepresentation. If it were up to Smash fans, instead of Ryu, Cloud, and Snake we’d have characters that wouldn’t have had the same ripple effect as we’ve experienced. We wouldn’t have the glory of “everyone is here” and it certainly wouldn’t be as massive of a crossover as it is.

Metal Gear wasn’t on my radar until Brawl. I bought a PS3, my first Sony console, to play MGS4. I went out and found The Twin Snakes on GameCube. Metal Gear is now among my favorite series. Smash has exposed me to new things that I would never experienced otherwise.

Regardless of how you feel about some of the remaining character, it isn’t a reach to say that the caliber of first parties is...well, lacking compared to the return of going for bigger 3rd parties. To the Smash fan-bubble, these characters may seem big. But it’s a tough sell to the same people who find Joker to be earth-shattering. This is a reality that Smash fans should probably at least grapple with.

There’s nothing wrong with preferring Nintendo characters, but to act as if they’re still right up to par with some 3rd parties out there is overestimating their popularity. There’s more to gain from adding Dragon Quest content, for example, than a character that is a one off from a Nintendo game, or a character that results in nothing more than side appearances.

Sure, they could add gameplay. But with the way DLC is being chosen, adding a character, stage, and music from a series that is entirely new offers far more of a return than a character from a series already. It serves no purpose in expanding the “most ambitious crossover” that Reggie is hinting at, in adding a Nintendo character from a series already in Smash.

It’s not meant as an insult, but food for thought.

Also, be careful with this leak. There’s nothing backing 3/5s of it, well, maybe 2/5, but Steve is only backed by one source that Verg isn’t entirely convinced of. I’m certainly not.

Doom holds little popularity in Japan, similar to Mortal Kombat. That matters more than some people think.

Again, food for thought.
 
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Zinith

Yoshi is Thicc in S P I R I T
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So, not trying to knock Doomguy or anything (it's probably one of the best games Bethesda ever made), but if his anger and such constitutes having a personality, can I argue similarly about my boi's personality without being jumped on?
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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There was no offense intended in my post either. However, I do think your post kinda comes off as trying to tell people that your wants for third-party are objectively better than their wants for more first-party.

All of the things you listed third-parties bringing? First-parties could bring those too. It doesn't need to be exclusive. Me personally? I'd happily have the rest of this DLC be things like more Zelda and Kirby than 3rd party content. Does that make my wants objectively better? Of course not, and it'd be a little rude to try and suggest so IMO.
It’s not even my wants though...that wasn’t my intention whatsoever. I have plenty of first party wants. At this point that’s probably a misunderstanding.

My point is that frankly, it makes more sense, in my opinion, to focus on 3rd parties. They’re more easily marketable and can reach a larger demographic than the first parties we have left.
 

Idon

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So, not trying to knock Doomguy or anything (it's probably one of the best games Bethesda ever made), but if his anger and such constitutes having a personality, can I argue similarly about my boi's personality without being jumped on?
Well the thing is, no one's really brought up Yoshi's personality.
 

Double K

Smash Lord
Joined
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So, not trying to knock Doomguy or anything (it's probably one of the best games Bethesda ever made), but if his anger and such constitutes having a personality, can I argue similarly about my boi's personality without being jumped on?
No one denies that Yoshi doesn't have a personality though

Hell, we have a character who's motivations in the games is usually "I am a petty child so I'm gonna punch god"

It's Kirby
 

praline

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I think they’ll take from the main theme of like all the Dragon Quest games as Erdrick’s victory theme.

From like 0:14 to 0:20. What do you think @JDCabrera ?
 
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