Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[khfan93]

I've been thinking one thing.
In the direct, they said every DLC would be 1 fighter + 1 scenario + music.
Do you think this, for example, deconfirms Paper Mario since there's already a Paper Mario stage?

I think it deconfirms anyone who comes from an already represented franchise, at least in terms of stages, fighters, and assist trophies.
My suspicion is that the DLC will be
One fighter each from Bethesda, Square Enix, and Ubisoft
One fighter from a new Nintendo franchise (probably ARMS? Maybe LABO?)
One fighter from an obscure retro Nintendo franchise

 

[SirCamp]

Just gonna throw this out there, but my DLC predictions are:

1 Banjo
2 Lloyd
3 Eight (or someone Dragon Quest. I still see this happening over Sora)
4 Dixie Kong
5 Travis Touchdown

Personally I'd prefer that AT could be upgraded and we'd get Isaac and Bomberman in there somehow as well. But I don't actually see that happening. I think Rex still has a chance. And maybe someone like Minmin. Oh and Bandana Waddle Dee is also a contender. I think DLC will skew more towards 3rd party though, regardless of which characters we get.

 

[PeridotGX]

I'm still shocked Shadow isn't in. He seemed such an obvious echo fighter.

 

[Confirmation]

would like to have a word with you.

If trophies weren't a reconfirmation before, why would spirits, which are even easier to incorporate since they use recycled art, be any different?

Mewtwo and Roy were also vets, not new additions. Different rules, and let's be honest here: Spirits are more like stickers than trophies.

Sakurai also didn't come forward and state that the DLC is going to be new stuff from scratch.

 

[Deleted member]

would like to have a word with you.

If trophies weren't a reconfirmation before, why would spirits, which are even easier to incorporate since they use recycled art, be any different?

Lucas was also a trophy before being DLC, too.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

I had to accept something today... (BLANK) is never getting in...

...Nope, not in Ultimate'S limited DLC or in Ultimate Plus Deluxe or in Smash Infinity Forever VR. For me it's Skull Kid. I have placed him as my #1 most-wanted newcomer since before Melee. After Melee, Brawl, and 4 left him in the cold, I got the hint. And yet this perfect storm still convinced me that he may have had a chance. I saw all the signs pointing towards his inclusion. Yet, it wasn't so. I could convince myself he'll come with DLC, but he won't. Out of only 5 characters left, Skull Kid just isn't important enough. It breaks my heart to see him deconfirmed. It also makes no sense to me why Sakurai waited until last minute to de-confirm some of the biggest fan favorites? Why not have shown off Skull Kid, Shadow, etc as assist trophies in the August direct? It just felt inevitable that we'd get Skull Kid and Shadow. Shadow - maybe one day. But Skull Kid...? Nope. Not happening. If he couldn't get into Ultimate, he's never getting in. DLC will be 5 high-profile 3rd party reps and even with a sequel or reissue, he faces tough odds against many other fan heavy-weights and has decreasing relevancy each passing year. Alas, today I officially let the dream die. I promise to myself to never allow myself to believe Skull Kid is in. May Skull Kid RIP.

Who is your character dream RIP? Who do you love that you only now can accept will never make it in for whatever reasons? Isaac? Chibi-Robo? Banjo? Geno? So many fan favorites have so much stiff competition going forward. Who will you never let yourself hype for again?

Banjo-Kazooie

I have no hope for DLC. Today proved Vergeben was right all along, which means that if Minecraft happens, it will steal away Banjo's slot. Piranha Plant also proved to me that "Smash Ballot results" seemed to only apply to the two big hitters: K. Rool and Ridley. After showing us a conga-line of big picks being shoved into Assist Trophies, they show us that a generic, faceless mook is somehow more deserving of a coveted fighter slot than any of them.

If it came down to Minecraft or Banjo, they're going to go with the series that's actually relevant and makes money, Minecraft. Banjo is just going to be stuck in Microsoft's back-log and he's not going to come back for anything other than the upcoming nostalgia-merch they're pushing.

I mean, I'd love to be proven wrong on this.... but I can't ever see it. This was their last chance and they were beaten by a stupid plant

 

[Kuon]

Apparently a lot of people were salty about the Direct. I thought it was pretty great. I mean, yeah, I didn't get the characters I was hoping for (Shantae and Mach Rider) but I already have Isabelle and Daisy, and I've been wanting Daisy since Melee, so I'm happy with the roster and everything else in the game

 

[Luigi The President]

Also, for people saying that Spirit isn't a deconfirmation, I'm at my third watch of the direct and This is what I can take out of it



Then people called about Characters like K.Rool or Wii Fit trainers having Spirit meaning it's not a deconfirmation however, after more viewing...

It is not the playable Characters themselves

King K. Rool's in his pirate outfit, And smash made the clear distinction between the two-
Ridley is Meta Ridley.
And Palutena is Psuedo Palutena.

And Wii Fit trainer isn't the spirit of the Characters. But the spirit of the Yoga Pose. Just like Smash 4's trophy


Because think about it. It makes no sense to have spirit of the Playable Characters when the whole point of the spirit mode/ Adventure mode is having the spirit CONTROLLING the playable Characters/taking over them.


Take this as you will. But it's all I can find so far after watching it three times.

**** Squenix

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Also, for people saying that Spirit isn't a deconfirmation, I'm at my third watch of the direct and This is what I can take out of it



Then people called about Characters like K.Rool or Wii Fit trainers having Spirit meaning it's not a deconfirmation however, after more viewing...

It is not the playable Characters themselves

King K. Rool's in his pirate outfit, And smash made the clear distinction between the two-
Ridley is Meta Ridley.
And Palutena is Psuedo Palutena.

And Wii Fit trainer isn't the spirit of the Characters. But the spirit of the Yoga Pose. Just like Smash 4's trophy


Because think about it. It makes no sense to have spirit of the Playable Characters when the whole point of the spirit mode/ Adventure mode is having the spirit CONTROLLING the playable Characters/taking over them.


Take this as you will. But it's all I can find so far after watching it three times.

Eh, the Meta Ridley point is a little weak, not only is it literally Ridley, but Meta Ridley is also playable. He's a costume yes, but c'mon, it's still Ridley.

I don't think we should be reading into things too much, there seems to be an enormous amount of Spirits in the game, I'd be surprised if they don't cover all of the notable first party characters not yet in, and I'm not buying we're only going to get 3rd party characters.

 

[Kuon]

Same, I just thought hey look at all these great characters we did get and King K Rool is freaken here! Oh and its not so bad having Ike with his yellow cape as a Substitute Isaac and he even does a Psynergy move, its called Eruption.. Oh and btw Eruption is one of Agatio's moves.

Very true. He does look like a fun character, even if he's not my cup of tea. I'm happy for the DK fans

 

[RisanF]

Alright, I'm just posting here to eat crow. I gave it a 60% chance of a new Subspace-style mode, 30% for Boss Rush, but I shouldn't have underestimated that 10% chance of Sakurai Weirdness. Lucky I even accounted for it at all, so I least have some dignity.

 

[zeldasmash]

My DLC predictions:

As for the DLC, besides the stupid plant, are 5 characters left. My predictions are these:

Sora (Kingdom Hearts 3 hype)
Banjo Kazooie (Microsoft rep and Phil Spencer advocates it)
Mach Rider (NES rep and Sakurai likes him)
Impa (Zelda NEEDS a new rep now that Skull Kid ain't making it)
Elma (Rex and Pyra didn't make the cut. She seems much likelier)

Other characters include Geno if Sora doesn't make it, Rayman for a 3rd party if Banjo doesn't make it and Dante for a scene buster long shot addition.

 

[NineS]

Here's something to think about.

A few months back in an interview, Sakurai stated that he wasn't even thinking about DLC and wasn't going to begin thinking about it until after he was done with Smash ultimate, base game at the least.

In the direct, when Rex's mii outfit is shown, he states they planned DLC as far back as the original project plan.

He was lying about one of these two. Which do you all think it could be?
If it's the first, then he was using it as a coverup. But why?
If it's the second, well, again. No solid reasoning why, other than he wants us to lower our expectations for characters from more recent games only to blow our minds away the moment they're revealed.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Mewtwo and Roy were also vets, not new additions. Different rules, and let's be honest here: Spirits are more like stickers than trophies.

Sakurai also didn't come forward and state that the DLC is going to be new stuff from scratch.

What rules? Who's making these rules?

I'm trying to apply logic here, not arbitrary fan rules that you have to bend in order to make work. I can see why an assist trophy might, but I have no idea why a sticker, trophy or spirit would deconfirm a character outside of just cynical pessimism.

 

[Shadowknight1]

Yeah, whenever a person such as Shadowknight1 likes one of my posts, I'm thinking something a long the lines of "Holy ****, this is a miracle!"

You mean like that?

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

https://youtu.be/d7qy2XwUDIo The more i see this video, the more its likely that i end up tearing up.

 

[Luigi The President]

DLC Predictions?
I don't expect any first parties tbh.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

You mean like that?

I am now dead.

 

[Iridium]

Oh yeah, Ray MK III at least got some recognition through that Mii Costume. It's better than nothing, considering how Custom Robo seems to pretty much be far from alive.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Very true. He does look like a fun character, even if he's not my cup of tea. I'm happy for the DK fans

K Rool is definitely my favorite of all the new characters, and Dixie is another likely character for DLC so who knows DK fans might get her as well.

 

[Nekoo]

DLC Predictions?
I don't expect any first parties tbh.

I legit expect Elma.

No spirit seen when we saw all of Xenoblade 2
No Xenoblade X music or whatever yet.

I'm feeling Elma.

 

[SvartWolf]

Not to mention that the Mewtwo case is because Sakurai didn't think he was wanted, people kept asking for him at E3, so Sakurai was like "Welp, better get to work," despite him not being originally planned and already existing as a trophy.

What strikes me as odd is that this time, Sakurai had the ballot. How'd he miscalculate on Isaac, at the very least?

yes, isaac was a popular ballot choice...

just maybe.. he wasnt as popular as:
-Ice climbers
-Wolf
-Snake
-Krool
-Inklings
-Ridley
-Isabelle.

an early disconfirmation would have done wonders though...

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

DLC Predictions?
I don't expect any first parties tbh.

Raymanraymanraymanraymanrayman...


And Crash

 

[Will]

DLC Predictions?
I don't expect any first parties tbh.

****, Piranha Plant's a third party????????

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Or, the more logical answer:
A"Square said no"



Like, Geno's problem is that he's always had to fight against Square's juggernauts, and that, despite fan outcry, is an uphill battle.

Another thing I'd like to add to the whole "Geno vs. the World" debate is that in terms of fan demand, only K. Rool and Ridley had enough to be acknowledged for it. Ridley was a character that people requested for 18 years, since before Melee's release when all they had was the cinematic, and K. Rool had so much fan demand that Nintendo was taken by surprise at how much he had. Those two were the juggernauts of Smash Bros. fan requests, with all other characters far below them.

Therein falls Geno. He's popular, sure. He likely had a good ballot presence, but not as much as K. Rool, who was the focal point of the core Smash Bros. fanbase during the Ballot era. He may lack raw fan demand, but Sakurai likes him, so much so that he added Geno as a Mii costume. But the thing is, a Mii Costume is likely the best he's getting.

Sakurai has likely gone to Square Enix and asked for their permission to use Geno. I would say he's done it at least twice. Once for Brawl, and again for Sm4sh DLC. Hell, he likely went to them a third time when deciding the roster for Ultimate, and each time Square Enix said no. He won't make enough money, and he's an irrelevant character (to Square Enix). The reason they said yes to the Mii costume was likely because it was another way to make money off of Smash Bros. fans without requiring any effort compared to Cloud, who's the main event.

Sakurai goes to them for Cloud? They recognize how much money he'd make, being the poster boy of Final Fantasy and a representation of Square Enix's biggest-middle-finger to Nintendo, and how much publicity they would get through his inclusion, so they give Sakurai permission to use him.

Geno lacks the raw popularity of K. Rool and Ridley, and for a company who seems more interested in the bottom line and promoting their brand than other companies in Smash, who show a bit of good will to Sakurai and Nintendo (Remember: Capcom let Nintendo ****ing murder Megaman in Ridley's reveal trailer).

Why add Geno when they could other characters, such as Sora or Lara Croft who would blow up the internet, or a Dragon Quest character that would cause Japan to miss work and school because it's that iconic of a series over there. If Geno were added, sure they'd get some coverage on gaming specific websites, and the core Smash fanbase would be pleased, but the wider fanbase would mostly react with confusion because Geno is, I hate to say it, a literal who.

We're in the DLC phase and ****ing Piranha Plant is our first DLC character. Popularity within the core fanbase has gone straight out the window, especially with conventionally popular fan characters (Isaac, Shadow, Rex & Pyra) being disconfirmed without a second thought. I believe we're going to be seeing widely popular characters for our DLC picks, and Geno just doesn't fall into that category.

 

[Luigi The President]

****, Piranha Plant's a third party????????

Already forgotten the dude is DLC and not a weird base character lol

 

[kylexv]

If Geno is deconfirmed for Ultimate DLC because he's a Spirit, well then I guess Mewtwo and Lucas aren't DLC in Smash 4 because they have trophies.

Oh wait

 

[NNN]

I think it deconfirms anyone who comes from an already represented franchise, at least in terms of stages, fighters, and assist trophies.
My suspicion is that the DLC will be
One fighter each from Bethesda, Square Enix, and Ubisoft
One fighter from a new Nintendo franchise (probably ARMS? Maybe LABO?)
One fighter from an obscure retro Nintendo franchise

I hope that obscure retro franchise would be Eternal Darkness. My 2 most wanted characters for smash 4 were Isaac and Alex Roivas, although I was hopeless on her at this point. I was gladly surprised when I saw her in the direct as a spirit, first time she's acknowledged in Smash.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

So I just got back. Won't go into too much but wow, the direct was pretty mix-y if I do say so myself.

Let's get to the bad stuff:

• Spirits Mode kinda overstayed its welcome/not as terrible as Smash Run, but I'm not entirely sure I'll go full one with the mode unless I have nothing else to do in Ultimate, but we'll get to one specific mode in a minute.
• Assists...assists....assists. Its not entirely a big deal for me atleast, but I feel sorry for anyone who experienced it/there's always next time/You can't please anyone you know.
• Some of the online portions of it are uninteresting to say the least/I'm not a big online person; pretty sure the online would suck anyway.

NOW FOR THE BIG JUICY PARTS:

• Ken & Incineroar had such an excellent trailer, and Incineroar looks absolutely hella fun to play as. I always go for the characters and what's their playstyle, and Incineroar delivers it!
• FUUUUUU- World of Light looks phenomenal!! The cutscene just looks so beautiful/almost damn near realistic. I MEAN LOOK AT PIT'S HAIR FOR GOD'S SAKE!!- ahem, sorry. Anyhow, a few bits of character interactions are great, vocals for the theme is beautiful and will be my choice of mode to go into after a few matches in Vs. and in Classic Mode; also my choice for unlocking all the characters if possible. Also...

EVERYONE DIES! Until Kirby saves the world again and everyone's alive again. YAY!

But the question is? Will Palutena's Guidance & Snake Codecs return? I dunno. We'll have to find out.

 

[Wyoming]

If I'm gonna be honest the only things I really truly liked was Piranha Plant and Story Mode.
Ken and Incineroar are literally the most "Yeah there they are" characters we could've gotten. Not only were they just inherently obvious picks but so many leaks had one or both of them.
The rest of the direct was completely underwhelming, esp with how much time was taken up by Spirits.
Tack all of this on with my two most wanted (Chibi-Robo and Rex) getting shafted for ****ing Mii Costumes with clearly no hope for them to be DLC, on top of other characters I wanted getting yeeted on and the lowkey infuriating practice of "We're not gonna show you the DLC characters but we super duper promise they'll be worth it" and this direct was just kind of a mess.

I do agree that selling a fighter's pass without revealing one of them (at the least) is very risky, especially when you reveal Piranha Plant as one of your post-game choices. Sure, it might reassure you that they can make a moveset out of anything, but that's not what people would normally buy as extra content in a character-driven game like Smash Bros.

Having said that, I don't mind the plant. He's kind of funny to me in truth. Best part is he looks really, really good in terms of concept - insane zoning abilities, quick, and a small frame.

 

[Luigi The President]

If Geno is deconfirmed for Ultimate DLC because he's a Spirit, well then I guess Mewtwo and Lucas aren't DLC in Smash 4 because they have trophies.

Oh wait

You and I both know there is a clear difference
One of them are veterans

 

[theromfather]

Guys I already mentioned and proved that spirits don't deconfirm anyone.

Official smash website shows K Rool as a spirit

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Also, for people saying that Spirit isn't a deconfirmation, I'm at my third watch of the direct and This is what I can take out of it



Then people called about Characters like K.Rool or Wii Fit trainers having Spirit meaning it's not a deconfirmation however, after more viewing...

It is not the playable Characters themselves

King K. Rool's in his pirate outfit, And smash made the clear distinction between the two-
Ridley is Meta Ridley.
And Palutena is Psuedo Palutena.

And Wii Fit trainer isn't the spirit of the Characters. But the spirit of the Yoga Pose. Just like Smash 4's trophy


Because think about it. It makes no sense to have spirit of the Playable Characters when the whole point of the spirit mode/ Adventure mode is having the spirit CONTROLLING the playable Characters/taking over them.


Take this as you will. But it's all I can find so far after watching it three times.

eh, if we take spirits as a deconfirmation then that pretty much deconfirms every possible first party character. There's no real reason to believe they are.

 

[mynameisBlade]

The genius idea would be to have a new Echo with each new DLC fighter. Related or not. I'm sure Echo Fighters barely affect the balance of the game overall and I'm lost as to why Shadow wasn't made an OBVIOUS Echo, Black Knight (slower but stronger Ike), Dixie Kong (slightly different Diddy), Black Shadow (Melee Ganon moves), and as much as I hate Bayonetta... RODIN would've been the perfect Echo.......this stuff writes itself.

Echoes are the key to just getting more of what everyone wants MOST in the game, CHARACTERS, but clearly Sakurai doesn't like that idea. Go big or go home for Smash ULTIMATE???? I think Super Smash Bros *Special* is a much more appropriate title for this game after today. Ridley and K. Rool are in, but at the loss of damn near every other highly requested character....GEEZUS...

(not counting Dark Samus/Chrom because according to Sakurai Echoes don't take too long to make, which makes me wonder why you wouldn't just make as many as you could in the first place)..

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Uh oh
View attachment 173072

GAME!

THE WINNER IS...

TEAM VERGEBEN AND OMNI!

Doing this for a loong time

 

[PeterMatthins]

Honestly **** them if thats the case.

LOL

Seriously? It's not like they're hating on him. They're not obligated to like him.

 

[Luigi The President]

drag0nscythe You ****ing got us man LOL

 

[Deleted member]

eh, if we take spirits as a deconfirmation then that pretty much deconfirms every possible first party character. There's no real reason to believe they are.

We're already scraping the bottom of the barrel. If this were true, we'd be almost completely out of options.

 

[KingofKoopas]

I can see it happening like this:

Sora
Steve (the box boi not the one we already got)
Banjo
Ryu Hayabusa
And Bronto Burt

Then theyll probably announce the next season which may be in planning stages now and will greenlight it once the first pass inevitably makes a ton of money. I can see smash passes sustaining life for Ultimate for awhile, just hope the tapestry don't get too crowded.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Here's something to think about.

A few months back in an interview, Sakurai stated that he wasn't even thinking about DLC and wasn't going to begin thinking about it until after he was done with Smash ultimate, base game at the least.

In the direct, when Rex's mii outfit is shown, he states they planned DLC as far back as the original project plan.

View attachment 174830

He was lying about one of these two. Which do you all think it could be?
If it's the first, then he was using it as a coverup. But why?
If it's the second, well, again. No solid reasoning why, other than he wants us to lower our expectations for characters from more recent games only to blow our minds away the moment they're revealed.

So if he was planning the dlc that far back.. And so he adds Medusa as a trophy in Smash 4 with the intent of removing trophies and adding her to Ultimate.. We have yet to see her appear in Ultimate so Medusa dlc coming soon yeah?