Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[SebasSancy]

I really think that Daisy and Waluigi are both visible enough in the spin-offs to justify playability. I think the reson she got in over him is simple:

She's an easy clone, he's not.

Besides, he's made Waluigi basically the face of Assists, so it seemed there was already a place in Smash for him. All daisy had before now was inspiration for one of Peach's costumes.

I totally agree that Daisy only got in because she was a easy clone of Peach, I love Daisy but I doubt she would get in as a unique character. But, I do believe, and it really looks like, that Sakurai only see main titles to add characters

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Love this thread taking fan rules seriously. I'm just waiting for the moment where Shadow, Tails and Silver get announced and we all implode.

Also, fyi, to those talking about "main series Mario games" or whatever, Geno has never appeared in a main series Mario.

Why Silver...over Amy

I think Shadow still has a little bit of an "Elec Man" concern.

Though for the record I'm not saying Elec Man is a possibility to be playable on the same level as Shadow just because he's a missing AT too. He's just one of many Robot Masters while Shadow is a major Sonic character who's popular. But what they do share is they're both 3rd Party Assist Trophies that might of been just simply replaced by Knuckles and Zero. Though there's also the possibility of them both being Assists again since if a 3rd party franchise can get two characters like Castlevania has, two 3rd party franchise assists wouldn't be too far off either. If the next Smash Direct has the Assist Trophy section prior to the announcement of new echoes and Elec Man shows up but Shadow doesn't though, then yeah I'll practically be preparing for the Shadow echo announcement then. Though I guess it's also possible to Shadow be an echo while Elec Man disappears entirely beyond maybe a normal trophy.

Still, I think there's a chance Shadow at least misses the boat base-game wise that might be getting lost in the excitement and/or gut reactions to Richter's lnclusion. ("Castlevania got two characters! Sonic must be getting one too. Right? ...Right?!?!") But if Echo Fighters will be a thing in DLC, that's kinda when I'd feel he'd be a near guarantee. There would probably be a decent amount of people willing to pay money for Shadow even as just an echo (Though I imagine Echoes would be a cheaper price then full-fledged fighters).

Shadow being replaced by Knuckles and not being an echo in the base game of Ultimate would be hella weird (would seem pointless to leave him in the dirt after having the same role for two games straight)

 

[Luigi The President]

I totally agree that Daisy only got in because she was a easy clone of Peach, I love Daisy but I doubt she would get in as a unique character. But, I do believe, and it really looks like, that Sakurai only see main titles to add characters

Dr. Mario's got some news for you...

 

[Zinith]

What is a command grab?

Yoshi's Neutral B is a notorious one...

Here's a question (One I asked a while ago, but was ignored because I think I asked when the discussion was going a mile a minute and it was swept away in the current of conversation): Do any of you have a specific reaction in mind (say, a video or gif) for when a certain character gets revealed?

Like, you plan to show [x] video if [y] character is revealed.

Even though I have a YouTube channel, I've not uploaded any videos. I prefer this medium to freak out on if Boshi is revealed...

 

[DJ3DS]

What are buffs you desperately want your Smash 4 mains to get.

I want Rob to get a larger grab and more air speed.
For Shulk... just faster moves. Blease. I'm begging.

Boy, do I have news for you!

Spoiler

Basically, it does at least look like his grab range has been improved. Check the character subforum to see what else we're speculating (such as applications of his new Down Throw, and potentially buffed N-Air)!

https://smashboards.com/threads/what-we-know-so-far-o-b.455498/

 

[SebasSancy]

Dr. Mario's got some news for you...

Ooooh I totally forgot about him xD busted. Forget all that I wrote hahahahaha

 

[Garteam]

Buff I would give to my main? Speed. Him. Up.:ultrobin. I get the low speed is to try and make it so he doesn't have too much stage control with his projectiles, but come on, he needs some way to approach on the ground that doesn't involve hiding behind a projectile. Even if you keep his current speed, at least give a slight power boost to compensate.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Man. Smashboards is like a court room during dry spells.

“Section 3 Paragraph 14 of the Assist Accord: No assist trophy can be promoted during a single cycle of Smash development and updates.”

“Ah, that may be true, but according to Section 34 Paragraph 12 of the Sakurai/Fan Ultimate Treaty: Fan demand can/may override any previous law when demand reaches the limit of Sakurai’s patience and/or developer dignity.”

“Objection!”

Sakurai: “We hope....*sigh*....you enjoy the ...uh....stuff. Take a look!

Fans: “Section god damn 34 Paragraph ****ing 12 gimme gimme gimme!”

 

[WallyPalmer]

My mains are :ultrobin and so I guess...
What everyone else is saying, make him a bit quicker. The resource visualisation is already a really great change, if only quality of life.

: They fiXED THE FREEFALL THANK GOD. But yeah it seems like they made his recovery workable, which I love. The buffs are already fairly signifigant and I love it.

 

[Deleted member]

Why Silver...over Amy

Shadow Echo

 

[TheYungLink]

I wonder if K. Rool would get an Echo Fighter based on Lord Fredrick. The latter was an expy of the former anyway, and you can replace K. Rool's helipack for a variation on Super Dedede Jump for Lord Fredrick's up special. Keep down special and side special the same (Fredrick doesn't throw his crown but I don't mind the creative liberty with letting him do it) and adjust his neutral special to shoot ice dragons instead, they can be smaller but longer and not as powerful. Everything else can be the same.

I like K. Rool but I also really liked the Snowmads in Tropical Freeze, and if the rumors are true and Nintendo is planning on putting K. Rool in more DKC games and stuff, I hope they don't forget about the Snowmads in the process.

Also please please PLEASE put in tons of music from Tropical Freeze in Smash Ultimate, David Wise is a genius and his songs are phenomenal in that game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I just had an idea: I know some people here like the idea of Incineroar as a grappler, but if it were up to me, I'd put in Zangief.

Zangief in Smash Bros. would be hilarious and amazing, I'd probably main him.

I'd prefer Mike Haggar. Basically the same character, but representing two additional series(Final Fight and Slam Masters).

 

[papagenos]

I really like Skull Kid's desing but I would prefer Impa as the zelda newcomer, because she's one of the important recurring characters in the zelda franchise. Anyway, I get that Skull Kid and MM are popular among Zelda fans, so I hope Impa gets in as an echo

Well I don't want to bring up the whole "Gardevoir Gothitelle make sense cause it = repping all the pokemon gens" argument cause i know how that goes around here (all the gens at the time of the roster being decided and saving gen 7 and possibly 8 for DLC) BUT on the subject of Zelda and trying to represent multiple games in a series for Ultimate something similar could be happening:

We have the whole zelda franchise having characters reworked to represent different zelda games:

Zelda- link between worlds/link to the past
Link/Sheik- botw
Ganon/ young link- Ocarina of time
Toon Link - wind waker/spirit tracks/phantom hour glass/ 4 swords or minish cap...all the toon link looking games haha

So getting Skull Kid as a Majoras Mask rep would be cool cause it further represents another zelda game (oddly enough twilight princess has been dropped even though it was the standard design before).

now that said with skull kid you could take it further and say impa will also get in as an echo fighter and could have her skyward sword design representing yet another entry in the zelda series (hyrule warriors design could also be used for impa but i think main line zelda games are more likely for design choices in smash).

theres also something interesting to think about if that is the case: we got Ridley at E3 and then Dark Samus as an echo in the smash direct... we then got K rool in that same smash direct... we could potentially get Dixie kong as an echo shown off next time we get smash news. during the next time we get smash news its also possible we get skull kid revealed as a newcomer. we could then get shown an impa echo in some future smash direct or something before the game comes out. if that happened there'd be this pattern of getting newcomers and then in the next information drop we get an echo fighter from that characters series shown. just a cool possible "pattern" that seems fairly likely given how likely dixie/impa/skull kid seem to be at this point AND the fact i expect some nintendo online direct to have smash info in september (we know nothing of ultimates online capabilities) and then at least one more smash direct (if not two) at some point from october-december7th probably focusing on the story mode. so at least two more smash info drops is fairly likely, id be surprised if we only got one in the next 4months, seems the game was held off from showing anything until E3 so they can hit us hard with info and hype in the lead up to release.

 

[Collective of Bears]

What are buffs you desperately want your Smash 4 mains to get.

I want Rob to get a larger grab and more air speed.
For Shulk... just faster moves. Blease. I'm begging.

I just want a meta where my big heavy bois are tourney viable.

I think Smash 4's DK and Bowser as niche picks are about as good as it's gonna get though.

 

[Dee Dude]

It’s extremely hypocritical when people say Waluigi shouldn’t happen/doesn’t have support because he’s a meme when Ridley has literally been one for a near decade.
Just Saiyan.

In another note, if there’s any Zelda game that’s neglected in Smash, it’s gotta be Hyrule Warriors for me. (Unless it came out after 4)

 

[Will]

I don't main him but all I ask is for to have not **** lasers (which, at the very least, it seems like they're addressing).

You know what I'm still mad about? Falco still doesn't have that dual pistol action.

 

[Zinith]

The buff I'd give my main is better grab game and faster normal attacks. Also make his dodging safer (especially taking into account the new dodge staling)

Oh, and give his Side B armor

 

[MojoRobo]

Well, short of a complete moveset revamp for Shulk, I'd say give me a side-B that has a purpose in life, non-****ty frame data, and a lesser effect on the debuffs.

As for Ike, short of the sword beams, I'd really like a better FSmash and DSmash. Those moves are godawful, especially compared to a guy like Cloud's ridiculous multi-slash or his hilt-bash.

Oh yeah, and maybe a Link that relies less on items than usual.

Backslash actually has uses for if your opponent decides to recover high or is in long endlag and isn't at combo percents, since it's an easy 22% without any other art and a super early kill move with Smash Monado. It's not the most useful, to be fair, but having niche moves isn't a bad thing.

 

[Will]

: They fiXED THE FREEFALL THANK GOD. But yeah it seems like they made his recovery workable, which I love. The buffs are already fairly signifigant and I love it.

Yeah but his FTilt hitboxes are still jank as hell.

 

[Idon]

It’s extremely hypocritical when people say Waluigi shouldn’t happen/doesn’t have support because he’s a meme when Ridley has literally been one for a near decade.
Just Saiyan.

In another note, if there’s any Zelda game that’s neglected in Smash, it’s gotta be Hyrule Warriors for me. (Unless it came out after 4)

Ridley's a meme, but he's also kinda an important meme.
A meme that is heavily tied to the overarching story of an iconic franchise and primary antagonistic force for a lot of key moments in that franchise.

There's a difference.

 

[StormC]

I just want a meta where my big heavy bois are tourney viable.

I think Smash 4's DK and Bowser as niche picks are about as good as it's gonna get though.

K. Rool is looking pretty good so far.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

What are buffs you desperately want your Smash 4 mains to get.

Gimme Revali's freaking GALE and the glider please...

 

[SonicMario]

It’s extremely hypocritical when people say Waluigi shouldn’t happen/doesn’t have support because he’s a meme when Ridley has literally been one for a near decade.
Just Saiyan.

In another note, if there’s any Zelda game that’s neglected in Smash, it’s gotta be Hyrule Warriors for me. (Unless it came out after 4)

To be fair though. Ridley's meme was "TOO BIG" as in too big for Smash. And now that meme is just dead thanks to Smash Ultimate.

I like Waluigi alot and wouldn't mind him getting in Smash eventually, but it's fair to say he's had his fair share of memes even outside of Smash ever since his portrayal in the Brawl In The Family webcomic. (...Which I get is kind of a Smash-themed webcomic I guess, but it's kind of a general Nintendo webcomic at times it feels) I do feel BitF is a big reason Waluigi is as popular as he is today. But I don't mean that in a bad way.

 

[DarkFalcon]

It’s extremely hypocritical when people say Waluigi shouldn’t happen/doesn’t have support because he’s a meme when Ridley has literally been one for a near decade.
Just Saiyan.

In another note, if there’s any Zelda game that’s neglected in Smash, it’s gotta be Hyrule Warriors for me. (Unless it came out after 4)

I don't really see many people here say that.

Where this argument goes south is Waluigi is made to be a joke character. Ridley was not. They both got meme'd by the Smash community, but one is not taken as a joke by his own franchise while the other is.

EDIT: Before someone takes this too literally, I know he was made to give Wario a partner in the sports games and not to be a joke, but as he is now he is a joke character.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

10 echoes, huh?
Dixie Kong
Hilda
Ninten
Shadow
Ken
Ms. Pac-Man
Medusa
Black Shadow
Roll

Some people will disagree with this last one, and it might be a bit wonky, but it was an idea that I had recently:
Toad

 

[MainJPW]

Why Silver...over Amy

Amy would probably get in as DLC... as a King Dedede echo.

 

[SebasSancy]

It’s extremely hypocritical when people say Waluigi shouldn’t happen/doesn’t have support because he’s a meme when Ridley has literally been one for a near decade.
Just Saiyan.

In another note, if there’s any Zelda game that’s neglected in Smash, it’s gotta be Hyrule Warriors for me. (Unless it came out after 4)

Luigi is a meme and he's THE meme. Maybe that's why Waluigi cant get in to smash, the meme place is taken by his nemesis :o

 

[Zippo]

I still think more than Loz, and more than Vergeben, Mimique is the guy I'll personally be watching.

That guy knows more than he's letting on.

 

[Nethermoosen]

What are buffs you desperately want your Smash 4 mains to get.

I want Rob to get a larger grab and more air speed.
For Shulk... just faster moves. Blease. I'm begging.

I don’t have a preference for who gets buffs other than those that can’t compete at higher levels. I just want to see some variance in tournament roster. Not Cloud and Bayonetta alllll day. I just want the others beefed up enough to have a chance at tournaments.

 

[Luigi The President]

I still think more than Loz, and more than Vergeben, Mimique is the guy I'll personally be watching.

That guy knows more than he's letting on.

Whomst?

 

[Zinith]

Amy would probably get in as DLC... as a King Dedede echo.

That's an.... interesting image you put in my head

 

[MojoRobo]

I don’t have a preference for who gets buffs other than those that can’t compete at higher levels. I just want to see some variance in tournament roster. Not Cloud and Bayonetta alllll day. I just want the others beefed up enough to have a chance at tournaments.

Watch more than just top 8 and you're going to see a lot more than top 10 chars. Pools are great to watch tbh. That and the fact we had a Duck Hunt at EVO top 8, regardless of the laughably bad Grand Finals.

 

[Collective of Bears]

K. Rool is looking pretty good so far.

I want to believe, but years of being a Bowser and DK player has made me skeptical.

 

[Arcadenik]

theres also something interesting to think about if that is the case: we got Ridley at E3 and then Dark Samus as an echo in the smash direct... we then got K rool in that same smash direct... we could potentially get Dixie kong as an echo shown off next time we get smash news. during the next time we get smash news its also possible we get skull kid revealed as a newcomer. we could then get shown an impa echo in some future smash direct or something before the game comes out. if that happened there'd be this pattern of getting newcomers and then in the next information drop we get an echo fighter from that characters series shown. just a cool possible "pattern" that seems fairly likely given how likely dixie/impa/skull kid seem to be at this point AND the fact i expect some nintendo online direct to have smash info in september (we know nothing of ultimates online capabilities) and then at least one more smash direct (if not two) at some point from october-december7th probably focusing on the story mode. so at least two more smash info drops is fairly likely, id be surprised if we only got one in the next 4months, seems the game was held off from showing anything until E3 so they can hit us hard with info and hype in the lead up to release.

Hmmm... makes sense I guess.

June 2018
Mario series Echo Fighter - Daisy
Metroid series newcomer - Ridley

August 2018
Metroid series Echo Fighter - Dark Samus
Donkey Kong series newcomer - King K. Rool

October 2018
Donkey Kong series Echo Fighter - Dixie Kong
Zelda series newcomer - Skull Kid

December 2018
Zelda series Echo Fighter - Impa
Mario series newcomer - Geno

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I like Waluigi alot and wouldn't mind him getting in Smash eventually, but it's fair to say he's had his fair share of memes even outside of Smash ever since his portrayal in the Brawl In The Family webcomic. (...Which I get is kind of a Smash-themed webcomic I guess, but it's kind of a general Nintendo webcomic at times it feels) I do feel BitF is a big reason Waluigi is as popular as he is today. But I don't mean that in a bad way.

While BitF got cancelled, at least we got Dragonith occasionally doing Smash-related comics.

Live on, Waluigi Time, live on.

Daisy was also in the Super Mario Bros movie

Pretty sure the makers of that confused her and Peach together. But since Luigi did get with her in that, it worked out.

Ooooh I totally forgot about him xD busted. Forget all that I wrote hahahahaha

All jokes aside, if there's one spin-off character that I feel is truly left out, it's Plum. Gal only had a trophy in Melee, and she'd fit in with the other Mario characters just fine (since her design isn't too unusual unlike the other 64 golfers), plus the potential for a fun golf-based moveset. I know she is a far shot, but she does have some sort of support, however minor it is.

And somehow even she is still likelier than Toad...

 

[DJ3DS]

I just want a meta where my big heavy bois are tourney viable.

I think Smash 4's DK and Bowser as niche picks are about as good as it's gonna get though.

Snake was a pretty strong, mainstream heavy in Brawl. ROB was honestly pretty good too (even top tier at release), and mostly held back by a couple of particularly bad matchups.

I'd suggest keeping an eye out for ROB in this game too. He so far appears to have only been buffed, arguably benefits greatly from the newer mechanics and has been given the best buff of all - most of the characters he previously struggled with receiving some manner of nerf.

 

[Zippo]

Whomst?

https://youtu.be/ecv3M5_TY_I

Person with stupidly accurate "guesses".

I think he's an insider that cleverly disgueses his information as guesses so he doesn't get negative attention and drama.

 

[Zinith]

When it comes to heavies, you can have a weird case like my boi who's a heavy but is tough to combo due to his floatiness and DJ armor, BUT doesn't have the KO potential...

 

[MojoRobo]

I want to believe, but years of being a Bowser and DK player has made me skeptical.

Bowser and DK in 4 are likely gonna be the prime of super heavyweights in terms of viability, tbh. They're just fundamentally at a disadvantage because of their inherent flaws as characters.

Snake was a pretty strong, mainstream heavy in Brawl. ROB was honestly pretty good too (even top tier at release), and mostly held back by a couple of particularly bad matchups.

I'd suggest keeping an eye out for ROB in this game too. He so far appears to have only been buffed, arguably benefits greatly from the newer mechanics and has been given the best buff of all - most of the characters he previously struggled with receiving some manner of nerf.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the super heavyweights. Nobody really thinks of Rob as a proper heavy, not even me, considering he's on the lighter side of the spectrum.

 

[Will]

Hmmm... makes sense I guess.

June 2018
Mario series Echo Fighter - Daisy
Metroid series newcomer - Ridley

August 2018
Metroid series Echo Fighter - Dark Samus
Donkey Kong series newcomer - King K. Rool

October 2018
Donkey Kong series Echo Fighter - Dixie Kong
Zelda series newcomer - Skull Kid

December 2018
Zelda series Echo Fighter - Impa
Mario series newcomer - Geno

you don't have to exclude his existence