Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Since we're bringing up actual Big Threes…

Spoiler

A star for anyone that can understand this reference.

Probably not, even then we'd need someone to Woolsey-fy his text since he spoke differently in Japan.

If the localizers from KI are on board, that would be a relatively simple task.

Ah screw it, I love beating jokes into the ground. I may as well jump in.

View attachment 159403

If it matters, Kingdom Hearts even has literal cannon-to-cannon combat in its gameplay now.

 

[DevaAshera]

Big 3? That doesn't exist.
There is only one supreme character and that's Bandana Dee.

Bandanna Dee is too big for Smash.

Deva, do you ever get a sense of deja vu?

Oh yes..its why I view characters as likely or unlikely rather then for sure or impossible (except non-gaming characters..they have a .1% chance)..on the other end of the spectrum, I recall people believing that, without a doubt, Shovel Knight would be playable.
I also remember Sonic being seen as impossible prior to Brawl's reveal of Snake, then he and Mega Man were suddenly locks.

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

I can back you up on that too, I was on various sites for Brawl and on both here and Capcom-Unity during the last game (I was a moderator there). The support I saw was..
Brawl
- Sonic
- Mega Man
- Geno
- Ridley
- Diddy
- Ness (people feared he was cut for Lucas)
- Isaac

Smash 4 (Base)
- Ridley
- K. Rool
- Bayonetta
- Mewtwo
- Chrom
- Isaac
- Shadow
- Lloyd
- Pac-Man

Smash 4 (DLC)
- Shovel Knight
- K. Rool
- Dark Samus
- Wolf
- Roy
- Geno
- Bayonetta

A lot of people who wanted Ridley seemed to accept the "too big" thing and hoped for Dark Samus or Sylux as a consolation prize.
A lot of people that requested characters seen as 'impossible' like Ridley, Cloud, or Bayonetta tended to be shouted down with reasons why what they wanted was impossible based on offhand comments by Sakurai or beliefs of their own being treated as unbreakable rules.

I remember tons of people wanting Lucario, Deoxys, Wolf, Krystal, Dedede, Villager and Olimar for Brawl.

 

[Deleted member]

The Big 3? Man, I think we should get Deku first but okay

 

[KMDP]

I view characters as likely or unlikely rather then for sure or impossible

"But aren't "likely" and "guaranteed" the same thing?"
---
Actually, I remember the lead up to Brawl, when I was just a casual fan checking the Dojo every morning.

...I don't actually remember which characters I wanted to see in Brawl, I don't think I was even thinking about it.

 

[Zinith]

I don't think I even ever HAD a most wanted in Smash until a few months ago. The closest I think was when I went to the Ballot and voted for

Spoiler

Reyn

 

[KMDP]

I don't think I even ever HAD a most wanted in Smash until a few months ago. The closest I think was when I went to the Ballot and voted for

Spoiler

Reyn

I was wondering who you voted for.

 

[Yosher]

I don't think I really recall having an absolute most wanted during the Brawl days but I do remember getting hyped for a lot of the characters like Sonic and Meta Knight and Wario and... who the heck is Lucas? Did Ness go to the barber shop?

How things have changed. After Brawl I knew every single newcomer- right up until they announced Richter in the last Direct anyway. I'm just glad I wasn't the only one who didn't know Richter honestly, makes me feel a tiny bit less like a dinobrain.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Bayonetta wasn't even talked about up here as a major contender. Cloud was largely popular and pushed due to casuals. Many Nintendo purists were yelling how he isn't Nintendo and thus impossible/ Silly and suggested moogle or Black Mage. Mewtwo was wanted by both crowds. Corrin was just promotional advertising not to mention FE is popular. I see Roy, Lucas as really only being the hardcore stuff and they were recognized by casuals due to being Veterans.

Hardcore Smash fans seems to like characters that are from a dead series or hasn't been relevant in a long time. (Banjo, Geno, Isaac, K.K Rool). Ryu, idk; a bone to the FGC people?. He certainly wasn't heavily advocated for up here.

In fact I remember a lot of people being salty on Smashboards after the Final Direct revealing Corrin and Bayonetta both of who were relevant at the time.

I still stand by the notion that characters like Geno/K.Rool/Isaac/Banjo are better for base game characters. It would be hard to get people to buy characters that they have no connection with or just aren't known. I only found out about those mentioned 4 due to Smash speculation. I have no connection with any of them besides Geno (I played a hacked hard version of SMRPG). Those characters are great for the older and hardcore crowds but just would have me be like "okay". No one in my family would be able to recognize those characters and they all play Smash. Many of whom are casual gamers. I certainly have not bought any DLC from DBZF. I find it hard to buy DLC especially when it has been out for a while when I buy a new game. 60$ + other characters that add up to another 30$+. Unless I'm hardcore person for this game; not likely for me to get DLC. This isn't pertaining to Smash, but how I view DLC. I have to be invested in a game to buy DLC. I don't play Splatoon that much so I find no reason me to buy DLC. Smash is different because its a crossover and DLC can contain very popular characters which would entice me to buy it because it's Sora. While a casual may not be invested in Smash; they could be invested in Kingdom Hearts (it's incredibly popular) and would buy Sora just because it's Sora.

The hardcore base does seem to have a very good get out to vote campaign though. I'll give them that.

It really depends on what direction Nintendo and Sakurai is trying to take with Smash. It was clear they tried to grow the Smash base by adding characters like Cloud , Bayonetta, Ryu into Smash as DLC. The capitalist in me tells me to shove out characters that would get as many purchases as possible while the Smasher in me would tell me to put out characters from dead franchises even though my profits won't be as high if they aren't in the base game. It is very clear Sakurai chose to cater to hardcore fans for the base roster as oppose to Smash4. Will he choose them again for DLC will remain to be seen. (Of course he could just do another ballot and hardcore smashers would rig the ballot to "boost characters" which is certainly how K.Rool got a ton of votes and gave Sakurai the false impression along with other characters that may get in. I WONDER HOW many people voted multiple times for him hmmmm? Rigged no shade intended, troll confirmed ). -> I will now vanish into thin air now. Don't be triggered by my statement as you know goodness well that ballot was rigged by the hardcore base who are passionate about their characters. I voted for Snake ONCE. I was pure in my vote and can have a clear conscious in stating the ballot was rigged in favor of certain characters. Especially since how dismissive, and outright horrible some people were when they found out people were voting for veterans and ESPECIALLY SNAKE. I feel so vindicated that Sakurai pointed multiple times that he was back by popular demand which meant people voted for him anyway regardless of the circumstances with Konami.





Don't take me seriously; I was throwing shade and K.Rool seems to arrive in an era where the development team doesn't outright make Super-heavies bad, so my vendetta against them is mostly gone.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Can we all just appreciate this picture for a moment?

Neat.

I don't think I really recall having an absolute most wanted during the Brawl days but I do remember getting hyped for a lot of the characters like Sonic and Meta Knight and Wario and... who the heck is Lucas? Did Ness go to the barber shop?

How things have changed. After Brawl I knew every single newcomer- right up until they announced Richter in the last Direct anyway. I'm just glad I wasn't the only one who didn't know Richter honestly, makes me feel a tiny bit less like a dinobrain.

I was more excited for richter. I grew up with symphony of the night.

 

[KMDP]

I don't think I really recall having an absolute most wanted during the Brawl days but I do remember getting hyped for a lot of the characters like Sonic and Meta Knight and Wario and... who the heck is Lucas? Did Ness go to the barber shop?

How things have changed. After Brawl I knew every single newcomer- right up until they announced Richter in the last Direct anyway. I'm just glad I wasn't the only one who didn't know Richter honestly, makes me feel a tiny bit less like a dinobrain.

I knew who Richter was... if only through Osmosis via memes.

 

[Zinith]

People seem to be surprised when I say I knew who Richter was before his announcement. I don't know why

 

[Luigi The President]

I wonder why Shadow and Ken are seen as locks, but Big Boss doesn't seem to even be seen as plausible as an Echo.

For the record: Shadow's one of my top 5 most wanted, and Big Boss is up there.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Oh for the love off....

You people have no knowledge of the past.

First off...

The "Big three" is a really dumb concept. It's implying that they've all been huge fan requests since pre Brawl, but that's only true if you stretch things a LOOOOOOOT and ignore even more.

You wanna know which characters were really popular pre Brawl? Only Ridley and Geno. K.Rool wasn't a popular pick because most DK fans logically went for Diddy who wasn't in at the time. It wasn't til after Brawl that K.Rool started to get a notable following and I think old K.Rool veterans (and vets in general) can back me up on that. @BKupa666 @Fuzzy Pickles! N3ON

You wanna know who was popular before Smash 4? Only Ridley and K.Rool. Geno popularity plummeted at that time. Something several veteran Geno supporters like @PsychoIncarnate can vouch for.

Even then, after Smash 4's ballot period, Ridley support took a turn for the worse and Geno was just one of many popular requests.. K.Rool was the king there.

This "big three" only became a thing now. And even then it straight up ignores characters who have had fanbases of equal size and have been waiting just as long like Dixie Kong and Isaac.

Thanks dad.

This validates my feelings that Dixie Kong and Impa have just as good of a shot as Geno. <3

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I wonder why Shadow and Ken are seen as locks, but Big Boss doesn't seem to even be seen as plausible as an Echo.

For the record: Shadow's one of my top 5 most wanted, and Big Boss is up there.

Maybe because Snake already cribbed his beard.

 

[Luigi The President]

Thanks dad.

This validates my feelings that Dixie Kong and Impa have just as good of a shot as Geno. <3

I'd say even more, my friend! Dixie's an easy first party Echo, and Impa can totally pass as a Sheik Echo.

Maybe because Snake already cribbed his beard.

Old Man Snake when?

 

[cmbsfm]

Damn bruh all that disrespect for Bayonetta tho

I’m glad that picture excluded Bayonetta. Every single time people group the 3rd parties and Mario together, Bayonetta sticks out like a sore thumb. Not saying she should be in the game, but when we talk about iconic characters she shouldn’t be grouped with those 7

 

[Kotor]

I think the thing now is that most of the big names left are not as big as K.Rool/Ridley, and are a bit more divisive because of it. All of this character discussion is making me think of this as one big game of "****, Kill, or Marry."

So, here's the Smash version: "Cut, Assist, or Playable"

We'll look at three characters, and decide which you want playable, which to get just an assist, and which to cut completely...Let's start with the big three names we've seen around so far: Geno, Isaac, and Bandana Dee. Which would you cut, which gets an assist, and which is in?

Cut Isaac
Assist Geno
Playable Bandana Dee

 

[Nazyrus]

People seem to be surprised when I say I knew who Richter was before his announcement. I don't know why

I immediately recognized him because of his line during the trailer, it's such a famous meme alongside Dracula's "What is a man?" lol

 

[Deleted member]

Playable: Isaac
Assist: Geno
Cut: Bandana Dee

 

[blackghost]

only newcomer im interested in is simon.geno wouldnt chnage that i really dont have any feelings towards him at all. bravely default has recency. Llyod was from a more recent game that was very well known when it came out. Sora is millions of times larger as a character, as is Sephiroth.

also i really have a hard time with this:

Sakurai: we would like permission to use a character.

SE rep: sure, who did you have in mind? Sora, Chrono, Sepiroth, Lightning, Noctus, TB, Laura Croft, hitman, thief, dragon quest character, Tales character other than Llyod, james bond, Dues Ex character...

Sakurai: None of them just geno.

SE rep: who?

this is not a shot at geno. this is a microshot of SE and like capcom, they are a legendary company in their own right. geno is not a huge piece of them. Unlike a character like King K and ridely he is not reoccurring, not a personality, no real defining trait, not much aesthetic differences, and not relevant as a character. He would need a redesign to fit in like roy did just to graphical work. Geno would be a huge outlier in the roster. He's a nonplayable companion character with little personality. in all of smash every character falls into one of three categories: focal point of a game, a villain in a game, playable character in a side game.

I've never understood his popularity and not sure i ever will. Hoping we get a unqiue FE character, shantae, some rando retro character, or just something else instead. still think the landshaking additions will be the dlc choices.

 

[Zinith]

I immediately recognized him because of his line during the trailer, it's such a famous meme alongside Dracula's "What is a man?" lol

I recognized him the moment I saw the blue tunic through the flames and I was EXPECTING the line...

 

[Luigi The President]

only newcomer im interested in is simon.geno wouldnt chnage that i really dont have any feelings towards him at all. bravely default has recency. Llyod was from a more recent game that was very well known when it came out. Sora is millions of times larger as a character, as is Sephiroth.

also i really have a hard time with this:

Sakurai: we would like permission to use a character.

SE rep: sure, who did you have in mind? Sora, Chrono, Sepiroth, Lightning, Noctus, TB, Laura Croft, hitman, thief, dragon quest character, Tales character other than Llyod, james bond, Dues Ex character...

Sakurai: None of them just geno.

SE rep: who?

this is not a shot at geno. this is a microshot of SE and like capcom, they are a legendary company in their own right. geno is not a huge piece of them. Unlike a character like King K and ridely he is not reoccurring, not a personality, no real defining trait, not much aesthetic differences, and not relevant as a character. He would need a redesign to fit in like roy did just to graphical work. Geno would be a huge outlier in the roster. He's a nonplayable companion character with little personality. in all of smash every character falls into one of three categories: focal point of a game, a villain in a game, playable character in a side game.

I've never understood his popularity and not sure i ever will. Hoping we get a unqiue FE character, shantae, some rando retro character, or just something else instead. still think the landshaking additions will be the dlc choices.

...I'd say that's a bit of a shot, my friend!

 

[Yosher]

I'd say even more, my friend! Dixie's an easy first party Echo, and Impa can totally pass as a Sheik Echo.

Much as Impa could pass for a Sheik echo, I'd honestly be very disappointed if this turned out to be the case because I really want Impa to be a unique fighter. It would kinda suck if the only non-Triforce carrier of all the Zelda characters was just a mere Echo. That's just my opinion though.

 

[drag0nscythe]

People seem to be surprised when I say I knew who Richter was before his announcement. I don't know why

I had the psx version, but really wanted to play as maria in the saturn version. It had really interesting additions. Like the new areas

And not being able to swim as the wolf.

 

[Luigi The President]

Much as Impa could pass for a Sheik echo, I'd honestly be very disappointed if this turned out to be the case because I really want Impa to be a unique fighter. It would kinda suck if the only non-Triforce carrier of all the Zelda characters was just a mere Echo. That's just my opinion though.

I'd like if she got the Echo treatment now and the full-on treatment in the next game.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh for the love off....

You people have no knowledge of the past.

First off...

The "Big three" is a really dumb concept. It's implying that they've all been huge fan requests since pre Brawl, but that's only true if you stretch things a LOOOOOOOT and ignore even more.

You wanna know which characters were really popular pre Brawl? Only Ridley and Geno. K.Rool wasn't a popular pick because most DK fans logically went for Diddy who wasn't in at the time. It wasn't til after Brawl that K.Rool started to get a notable following and I think old K.Rool veterans (and vets in general) can back me up on that. @BKupa666 @Fuzzy Pickles! N3ON

You wanna know who was popular before Smash 4? Only Ridley and K.Rool. Geno popularity plummeted at that time. Something several veteran Geno supporters like @PsychoIncarnate can vouch for.

Even then, after Smash 4's ballot period, Ridley support took a turn for the worse and Geno was just one of many popular requests.. K.Rool was the king there.

This "big three" only became a thing now. And even then it straight up ignores characters who have had fanbases of equal size and have been waiting just as long like Dixie Kong and Isaac.

Don't forget Mega Man was also highly requested as a character pre-Brawl. Sakurai added him in because of the third-party poll that also got Sonic in.

Also, we had a thing called the Big Four before E3 2013, which had Mega Man, Mewtwo, Ridley, and King K. Rool, Half of them got in.

As for Ultimate, the Big Three doesn't exist as a concept now. Now that Ridley and King K. Rool is in, the only especially popular request is Banjo-Kazooie and really the only one I could conceivably beating out Ridley and K. Rool in hype. People overestimate Geno and to a lesser extent, Isaac and Bandana Dee's popularity. Don't count on there being a "Big Three" or something similar to come up in speculation until years after Ultimate releases its last DLC.

 

[Chandeelure]

The Big 3? Man, I think we should get Deku first but okay
View attachment 159408

Is that Lucas with steroids?

 

[KMDP]

People seem to be surprised when I say I knew who Richter was before his announcement. I don't know why

Probably because people think you're a Yoshi nut who only knows Yoshi things.

Is that Lucas with steroids?

Nah, it's Super Tintin.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

People seem to be surprised when I say I knew who Richter was before his announcement. I don't know why

Knew of him way before I eventually played Rondo of Blood on the Wii VC. The love I have for that game is part of the reason why his reveal actually surprised me.

 

[Luigi The President]

Knowing this fanbase, they'll suddenly decide Doomslayer, Dark Matter, and King Boo have been massively requested for years and they'll be the next "Big 3".

 

[Deleted member]

only newcomer im interested in is simon.geno wouldnt chnage that i really dont have any feelings towards him at all. bravely default has recency. Llyod was from a more recent game that was very well known when it came out. Sora is millions of times larger as a character, as is Sephiroth.

also i really have a hard time with this:

Sakurai: we would like permission to use a character.

SE rep: sure, who did you have in mind? Sora, Chrono, Sepiroth, Lightning, Noctus, TB, Laura Croft, hitman, thief, dragon quest character, Tales character other than Llyod, james bond, Dues Ex character...

Sakurai: None of them just geno.

SE rep: who?

this is not a shot at geno. this is a microshot of SE and like capcom, they are a legendary company in their own right. geno is not a huge piece of them. Unlike a character like King K and ridely he is not reoccurring, not a personality, no real defining trait, not much aesthetic differences, and not relevant as a character. He would need a redesign to fit in like roy did just to graphical work. Geno would be a huge outlier in the roster. He's a nonplayable companion character with little personality. in all of smash every character falls into one of three categories: focal point of a game, a villain in a game, playable character in a side game.

I've never understood his popularity and not sure i ever will. Hoping we get a unqiue FE character, shantae, some rando retro character, or just something else instead. still think the landshaking additions will be the dlc choices.

I think I've figured things out when it comes to Geno. He's Square Enix's Boba Fett. His relevance to the overall series is 0; he has no personality, and is immediately forgotten after his appearance. The only thing going for them is a fan-dubbed 'Mysteriousness' and their designs are apparently cool looking.

 

[Deleted member]

Is that Lucas with steroids?

Probably because people think you're a Yoshi nut who only knows Yoshi things.

Nah, it's Super Tintin.

No, it's Fallout Boy

 

[N3ON]

Oh for the love off....

You people have no knowledge of the past.

First off...

The "Big three" is a really dumb concept. It's implying that they've all been huge fan requests since pre Brawl, but that's only true if you stretch things a LOOOOOOOT and ignore even more.

You wanna know which characters were really popular pre Brawl? Only Ridley and Geno. K.Rool wasn't a popular pick because most DK fans logically went for Diddy who wasn't in at the time. It wasn't til after Brawl that K.Rool started to get a notable following and I think old K.Rool veterans (and vets in general) can back me up on that. @BKupa666 @Fuzzy Pickles! N3ON

You wanna know who was popular before Smash 4? Only Ridley and K.Rool. Geno popularity plummeted at that time. Something several veteran Geno supporters like @PsychoIncarnate can vouch for.

Even then, after Smash 4's ballot period, Ridley support took a turn for the worse and Geno was just one of many popular requests.. K.Rool was the king there.

This "big three" only became a thing now. And even then it straight up ignores characters who have had fanbases of equal size and have been waiting just as long like Dixie Kong and Isaac.

Any descriptor in the vein of “The Big Three” is always a snapshot in time. Through the tenure of Smash 4 the “Elite 4” was comprised, at different times, of Mega Man, Ridley, K. Rool, Little Mac, Mewtwo, and Palutena (never Geno btw). Then the ballot/DLC had its own top candidates. It’s a fluid descriptor. Ridley, K. Rool and Geno might seem like the Big Three now, but in a year you’ll have a new big three, or four, or whatever.

Those three have been popular candidates for the past decade+, but there’s not a lot that ties them together. I don’t recall the three ever being simultaneously the three most requested characters. When K. Rool began his ascent after Brawl, Geno began his descent. Then when those two were both popular in the ballot era, Ridley lost his footing at the top of the heap.

So this big three is really only a big three if you look at Brawl onward very selectively and with unfocused eyes. It’d be a stretch to even say they’re the three most popular newcomers in Ultimate (assuming Geno gets in), considering Inkling has been putting in work for a while now. Though it seems the last few months have purged that from consideration.

But yeah, they’re three characters who have had a history of high popularity in the Smash community. You’ll notice that’s not a terribly specific descriptor, but it’s really the only one that fits them together.

 

[Yosher]

I'd like if she got the Echo treatment now and the full-on treatment in the next game.

I guess? I'd prefer if they'd give her a full-on unique moveset though because otherwise her moveset will always at least loosely be based on Sheik's I feel like, similar to Ganondorf and Falcon. Not that that would be such a bad thing, It just wouldn't be preferable for me personally.

 

[Bionichute]

Knowing this fanbase, they'll suddenly decide Doomslayer, Dark Matter, and King Boo have been massively requested for years and they'll be the next "Big 3".

jokes on you all three of those are great choices

 

[Luigi The President]

jokes on you all three of those are great choices

Jokes on you because that's not the point I was making in the slightest and would gladly play King Boo.

 

[Majora's Visage]

I keep seeing people say Shadow is a given. Why are people so adamant that he is, when compared to good ol Skull Kid?

 

[Luigi The President]

I keep seeing people say Shadow is a given. Why are people so adamant that he is, when compared to good ol Skill Kid?

Shadow is a well-requested third party who would make one of the easiest Echoes in the book.
It's incredibly odd to compare him to Skull Kid.

 

[Will]

So I know they usually play themes for characters during Echo reveals, so what exactly would be played for specific characters?
Shadow has really three options:

A. All Hail Shadow
B. I Am All of Me
C. (bout to blow your mind). Live and Learn, the most likely

also a bit of a hot take but magna-fi all hail shadow > crush40's