Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Jetsurge]

Oh come on, there's a new Xenoblade character and a Pokemon character coming. That's just about 90% given.

Pokemon definitely, Xenoblade I'm leaning towards no. If there's dlc Rex and Pyra will definitely get in though.

 

[Untouch]

Aren't the Koopalings from Super Mario World or something? It's an older game, and they existed before Junior did, who showed up in the early 2000s. I know that for sure.

No they're from SMB3.

 

[osby]

Palutena's more of a modern addition. No one remembers who she was pre-Uprising.

And half of those are costumes!

1. That doesn't really change her age but I agree
2. There are still included in as characters. They aren't like Cloud's modern design.
3. It's still really generous, considering the game was in 2014, excluding Koopalings, it's like 1/3 of the newcomers.

Ultimate, on the other hand, has only Splatoon and a game that already has its main characters, who is also an echo.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Oh good lord.

Know that you mention it, it kinda does fit him

No they're from SMB3.

Even worse

 

[Wyoming]

1. That doesn't really change her age but I agree
2. There are still included in as characters. They aren't like Cloud's modern design.
3. It's still really generous, considering the game was in 2014, excluding Koopalings, it's like 1/3 of the newcomers.

Ultimate, on the other hand, has only Splatoon and a game that already has its main characters, who is also an echo.

It's simple really: are the newer characters as requested as older ones? Time will tell.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I do agree that it's unoriginal, but it doesn't really matter if it looks good.
That's my take, anyway.

Hell no.
Midnight Lycanroc unironically looks like Verlisify.

"I got yo ***** on a leash, ima just call her Verlisify"

...alright, I'll concede to your point

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Alright I'm back, anything i missed?

 

[MainJPW]

I wish square wasn't square because there are a lot of potential good JRPG reps like Chrono.

And more FF music. Square Enix is just a bunch of squares.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Okay but why Terra or Bartz as our second FF rep when we could have Cid? Which Cid? I'll leave that up to y'all.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Okay but why Terra or Bartz as our second FF rep when we could have Cid? Which Cid? I'll leave that up to y'all.

It would have to be FF15 Cid so that we can finally get a old man in Smash Bros

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Okay but why Terra or Bartz as our second FF rep when we could have Cid? Which Cid? I'll leave that up to y'all.

Where's the love for Cecil Harvey?

Though I am torn since I want Tifa too.

 

[Krysco]

Still reading posts from Thursday but one of the things brought up was the SSS and how it's not centered and there's still room for more stages. That discussion reminds me back during Sm4sh speculation when Ness' render was leaked and people called it fake because his shirt was even rather than partially tucked in. Just because Sakurai has done something before, doesn't mean he can't change it when going into a new game. That being said, if we do get more stages, I won't complain.

I'm also seeing a lot of discussion about potential echoes and most noteworthy to me is Black Shadow having Ganon's old moveset. First off, many people brought this idea up before echo was an official term and many people shot the idea down, saying Black Shadow should get his own moveset if he gets in. Suddenly that seems to have changed all because of a term. Secondly, Ganondorf himself is still very much a clone. Neutral special has a different animation but is clearly just a reworked Falcon Punch, Wizard's Foot and Dark Dive are pretty damn similar to Falcon Kick and Falcon Dive, the latter really just has a hitbox at the end to make it stand out. All of his throws except for uthrow are still the same as Falcon's (unless they actually changed this from Sm4sh. Haven't paid too much attention to footage outside of stuff in directs and E3), his dash attack and all aerials except fair are the same too and utilt is similar, just delayed and with a windbox and explosion. Not only that but Ganon actually lost a unique move in usmash. His fsmash and usmash are basically just the same as Ike's now and his dsmash is Cloud's. His jab, ftilt, dtilt, fair, uthrow and side special are all unique to him.

Speaking of echoes altogether, I'm rather surprised by the large amount of support for them. Back in Brawl, Sm4sh or even earlier speculation for this game, if you suggested a whole bunch of clones getting added, most people would disagree with you. Now it's one of the most discussed topics, all because the devs acknowledged them and gave them a spiffy new title? If it's about the number thing and them getting a fancy e beside their name, that's just their way of saying 'this fighter didn't take much time to make' which has always been the case with clones.

And lastly, surprisingly Chrom is the newcomer I'm most hyped for at the moment. In Sm4sh, Roy has become my second most used character, only being behind Falco and from what I've read, Chrom supposedly has a balanced blade like Lucina. That alone makes him sound really fun since he'll most likely have Roy's speed and grab combos but will actually be threatening at max range. There are some downsides though. Much like Lucina, Chrom could miss out on some combos and kill confirms since he won't have weaker hits that can lead into stronger ones. He also might have a recovery worse than Mac's. Ike's Aether doesn't snap to the ledge and I don't know if Chrom's does, plus I've seen people mention that he doesn't throw the sword up like Ike does which makes it do an even worse job at fending off edgeguarders and he doesn't even have an alternative recovery option like Ike does with Quick Draw. Ridley, K Rool and the Belmonts do have my attention but since I can already picture Chrom's entire moveset, I'm most hyped for him.

 

[pika.thunder25]

In terms of Final Fantasy representation for Smash, I do recall that Sakurai stated that they could've used either Terra or Bartz for the Wii-U/3DS Smash during an interview with Tetsuya Nomura for Famitsu:

"Nomura: "It was an opportunity for Cloud to appear in Smash, how could I turn it down?"

Sakurai: "This isn’t an exact number, but among the requests for a Final Fantasy character to appear in Smash, around ¼ to ⅓ of the requests we got from fans were for Cloud. I really wanted to answer the desires of those fans, and even though I thought it would be impossible, I reached out anyway, just to try."

Nomura: "When we first talked, I asked “are you sure you’re okay with Cloud?” He’s not a character from a new game, after all."

Sakurai: "But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are."

Source: https://www.gamnesia.com/news/sakur...ve-used-terra-or-bartz-as-the-final-fantasy-c

So other than Cloud or any other characters from Final Fantasy VII, if you were asked for another Final Fantasy character, who would you want it to be for Smash Ultimate?

I haven't heard this name tossed around at all and I 1000% doubt it's possible, but I would love to see Yuna from FFX, with the FFX-2 costume. She could have her moveset be mainly from FFX-2 with the gun, but her final smash could be summoning Valefor with its overdrive.

 

[Deleted member]

And more FF music. Square Enix is just a bunch of squares.

I thought it was Hip to be Square though?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I predicted this clone outburst honestly, and people called me crazy for it. But what direction should Smash go else from here with such a giant roster?? It's a logical step, and I applaud it already.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I predicted this clone outburst honestly, and people called me crazy for it. But what direction should Smash go else from here with such a giant roster?? It's a logical step, and I applaud it already.

I remember when i said I think we are getting about 12 characters n the new game and people called me crazy. Already have 5 in one direct xD

 

[Wyoming]

I predicted this clone outburst honestly, and people called me crazy for it. But what direction should Smash go else from here with such a giant roster?? It's a logical step, and I applaud it already.

I just hope it doesn't get too nuts. If 1/3rd of the cast had a clone then that would be a bit of a shame, really.

Ultimately Smash is a character game though so I'll accept it.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I just hope it doesn't get too nuts. If 1/3rd of the cast had a clone then that would be a bit of a shame, really.

Ultimately Smash is a character game though so I'll accept it.

Agreed. I'm honestly fine with a clone outburst

 

[osby]

It would have to be FF15 Cid so that we can finally get a old man in Smash Bros

We had Twilight Princess Ganondorf but he rejuvanated himself to beat new, improved Link.

Agreed. I'm honestly fine with a clone outburst

I'm honestly fine with people finally got clones don't prevent unique characters from getting in and most of them are wanted characters.

 

[Murlough]

Yeah, I don't know. I've been kinda annoyed at the people who all the sudden started wanting thousands of Echo fighters just because of a name change but after the last direct I pretty much feel the same way they do.

I think them having the option to be placed a little over their originals roster slot is damn brilliant. No one can say "they just take up roster space!" now. And letting them Echo more than one fighter. That was smart.

I also am really happy that Dark Samus has unique animations. Her one-handed chargeshot looks so satisfying.

I'm still miffed that Chrom is straight up better Roy in most matchups, at least thats my impression....maybe they both will suck, the only matchups I think Chrom would be worse in are ones were they can abuse Ike's recovery: mainly Shiek.

I don't much care for Richtor but I'm not bothered by him like I might have been had someone leaked him prior to the direct.

I kinda feel like a sheep for all the sudden being ok with +12 Echo Fighters, especially when I was so against them earlier, but eh. Is what it is.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It's not a clone. It's not an echo. It's a:

Spoiler

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSION! AAAAH !!

Fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak echoes stronger!

Hello SmashBoards! It’s been quite sometime since I’ve posted here, but I wanted to play a quick game.

I’ll call 5&5. I’d like to know who you all believe will be the next & final 5 Newcomers & 5 Echoes will be.

I’ll start.
1. Karate Joe
2. Monster Hunter
3. Lycanroc (Dusk Form)
4. Bandana Dee
5. Geno

1. Isabelle (Villager Echo)
2. Dixie Kong (Diddy Echo)
3. Impa (Sheik Echo)
4. Shadow (Sonic Echo)
5. Ken (Ryu Echo)

Bonus Round: 5 most likely DLC Potentials.

1. Rex & Pyra
2. Springman (with Ribbon Girl Echo)
3. A character from Fire Emblem: Three Houses.
(My choice is a Pokémon Trainer style Byleth who instructs his three students Claude, Dimitri, and Edelgard to fight. However, I believe if we get only one it’ll be Byleth or Edelgard or whoever the Goddess looking lady is.)
4. Generation VIII Pokémon
5. A Hero from Dragon Quest.

Uniques:
1. Elma
2. Bandana Dee
3. Chorus Kids
4. Bamco Rep 2 (Heihachi or Lloyd)
5. Incineroar or Buzzwole

Echoes:
1. Isabelle (Villager)
2. Impa (Sheik)
3. Dixie (Diddy)
4. Fiora (Elma; yes I KNOW she’s in Shulk’s Final Smash shut up and let me dream)
5. Zack (Cloud)

DLC candidates:
1. Rex and Pyra (with Addam and Mythra echo)
2. ARMS character (preference for Twintelle)
3. Dante
4. Neku
5. Three Houses rep, probably. If not them then maybe Shantae

I thought it was Hip to be Square though?

Thanks to Vinesauce my mind keeps automatically replacing “be square” with “**** bees”

 

[Megadoomer]

Agreed. I'm honestly fine with a clone outburst

Are you sure about that? I can think of two times where a series introduced a lot of clones, and neither one ended well.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

It would have to be FF15 Cid so that we can finally get a old man in Smash Bros

If we're still talking old men, I think you're missing the obvious.

 

[Megadoomer]

It would have to be FF15 Cid so that we can finally get a old man in Smash Bros

I'm still holding out hope for this guy, honestly.

 

[Murlough]

It would have to be FF15 Cid so that we can finally get a old man in Smash Bros

Old Manondorf is the ****.

I wouldn't mind Cid cause he seemed alright from what I've read in the KH manga but I still think if we "need" an old guy then Heihachi would be the best choice.

Cranky too actually. Would he count as a retro character?

 

[Cosmic77]

Well, I know one thing for sure. If Sakurai keeps pumping out Echoes, amiibo are gonna start cluttering the shelves once again. I'm pretty sure we already have 15 new figures by now.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo was begging Sakurai to make more clones just so they could create a whole new Smash line of amiibo with a higher price than the original.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

As far as recent characters go a Gen 7 Pokémon, Elma, Bandana Dee and Isabelle are all still in with a good shout, while Spring Man and Rex & Pyra are all but guaranteed as DLC, and you wouldn't bet against Gen 8 Pokémon and FE Three Houses reps coming eventually. I wouldn't worry about newer characters getting their chances, the amount of older characters we've gotten so far is just a byproduct of them having been neglected in the past and their popularity spiralling out of control as a result, and now Ultimate is finally delivering them.

I also think they're intentionally announcing these characters early so everyone is more relaxed and accepting of future announcements, instead of going "Ok, but where's K. Rool?" these people will instead look at futue characters for what they are instead of what they're not.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Cranky too actually. Would he count as a retro character?

We can only say that if his FS involves transforming into his younger self to throw pixel barrels at fools.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I'm still holding out hope for this guy, honestly.

Same!

Only time will tell...

 

[AlphaSSB]

Personally, I'm a 'Quality over Quantity' type of person, and I'm not too big a fan of the plethora of clones. Giving them a new name doesn't justify them for me. At least its possible to combine clones and their originals in the same slot. Makes it at least seem that there aren't as many of them.

Given the volume of characters that we saw a few days ago, I'm genuinely unsure how many characters total we'll see. Sakurai mentioned not to expect 'too many' newcomers, but maybe he was specifically talking about unique characters. Maybe 6-8 unique characters, matched by 6-8 clones, for 12-16 new characters total? Places it below Melee's newcomer count and Brawl's.

I will predict this, though. After a game like 'Smash Ultimate', there isn't much you can do to top what has already gone over-the-top. Sakurai stated in an interview that the alternative to Ultimate would be refining the series, but would only have about 1/3 of the roster. The next Smash game after Ultimate, which will probably be around a decade or so from now, will probably end up being a series reboot.

 

[---]

Does anyone have access to any Pre-Brawl polls? Particularly those from the official Nintendo forums when those were a thing?

@Thirdkoopa? @vaanrose? Anyone?

Nevermind I found them with the power of Google.

https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-development-history-updated-3-22.324410/

I remember at one point having saved some Brawl polls in my old development thread, such as Japanese fan requests from the E3 06 Brawl site. It's somewhat outdated now that PushDustIN/SourceGaming have gone through each of the links/old websites I provided, but it is rather amusing to go back through old Smashboards threads from the last 12 years.

 

[Scicky]

Tried to enter it. Big *** of a group. Very rude and mean spirited.

Gave up on it then.

Yeah, I've been playing competitive pokemon for over half my life at this point but have never really been able to get involved with the community. There are a lot of sore losers, elitists or just general bad attitudes. Par for the course with most game franchises but still really unfortunate.

*looks at ,,,,,,,,,,,,,*
...okay.

Palutena's inclusion is almost certainly entirely thanks to Uprising though, a game that sold nearly as well as it's predecessor, and is completely based on her appearance in that game, she wasn't really a character many people wanted or even knew about prior to that. Duck Hunt is the games token retro and the last 7 you listed are... the same character. While 4 of those characters are 3rd party.

Little Mac is probably the only Smash 4 character that felt like long-time Nintendo fans were truly being thrown a bone. Otherwise, it was a pretty bad roster as far as long-desired Nintendo characters goes, point blank.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Yeah, I don't know. I've been kinda annoyed at the people who all the sudden started wanting thousands of Echo fighters just because of a name change but after the last direct I pretty much feel the same way they do.

I think them having the option to be placed a little over their originals roster slot is damn brilliant. No one can say "they just take up roster space!" now. And letting them Echo more than one fighter. That was smart.

I also am really happy that Dark Samus has unique animations. Her one-handed chargeshot looks so satisfying.

I'm still miffed that Chrom is straight up better Roy in most matchups, at least thats my impression....maybe they both will suck, the only matchups I think Chrom would be worse in are ones were they can abuse Ike's recovery: mainly Shiek.

I don't much care for Richtor but I'm not bothered by him like I might have been had someone leaked him prior to the direct.

I kinda feel like a sheep for all the sudden being ok with +12 Echo Fighters, especially when I was so against them earlier, but eh. Is what it is.

Never really understood that too much either. I guess the new presentation can change alot. i dunno.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Yeah, I've been playing competitive pokemon for over half my life at this point but have never really been able to get involved with the community. There are a lot of sore losers, elitists or just general bad attitudes. Par for the course with most game franchises but still really unfortunate.


Palutena's inclusion is almost certainly entirely thanks to Uprising though, a game that sold nearly as well as it's predecessor, and is completely based on her appearance in that game, she wasn't really a character many people wanted or even knew about prior to that. Duck Hunt is the games token retro and the last 7 you listed are... the same character. While 4 of those characters are 3rd party.

Little Mac is probably the only Smash 4 character that felt like long-time Nintendo fans were truly being thrown a bone. Otherwise, it was a pretty bad roster as far as long-desired Nintendo characters goes, point blank.

All it does is shrink the base till it dies. Seen it happen to a few series in the past.

 

[Arcadenik]

Where's the love for Cecil Harvey?

Though I am torn since I want Tifa too.

Oh yeah! Cecil Harvey would be awesome! I really liked Final Fantasy II (SNES). But if we are getting a second Final Fantasy character, it probably would be Terra Branford since Final Fantasy III was included in the SNES Classic Edition. I’d be fine with that.

 

[osby]

Yeah, I've been playing competitive pokemon for over half my life at this point but have never really been able to get involved with the community. There are a lot of sore losers, elitists or just general bad attitudes. Par for the course with most game franchises but still really unfortunate.


Palutena's inclusion is almost certainly entirely thanks to Uprising though, a game that sold nearly as well as it's predecessor, and is completely based on her appearance in that game, she wasn't really a character many people wanted or even knew about prior to that. Duck Hunt is the games token retro and the last 7 you listed are... the same character. While 4 of those characters are 3rd party.

Little Mac is probably the only Smash 4 character that felt like long-time Nintendo fans were truly being thrown a bone. Otherwise, it was a pretty bad roster as far as long-desired Nintendo characters goes, point blank.

Than I hope we run out of long-desired Nintendo characters at some point.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

As far as recent characters go a Gen 7 Pokémon, Elma, Bandana Dee and Isabelle are all still in with a good shout, while Spring Man and Rex & Pyra are all but guaranteed as DLC, and you wouldn't bet against Gen 8 Pokémon and FE Three Houses reps coming eventually. I wouldn't worry about newer characters getting their chances, the amount of older characters we've gotten so far is just a byproduct of them having been neglected in the past and their popularity spiralling out of control as a result, and now Ultimate is finally delivering them.

I also think they're intentionally announcing these characters early so everyone is more relaxed and accepting of future announcements, instead of going "Ok, but where's K. Rool?" these people will instead look at futue characters for what they are instead of what they're not.

Bandana Dee made his debut in 1996, so he's pretty old like Richter and K. Rool. And Elma's chance is pretty dead at this point with the clear heavy focus on majorly popular character for all our unique newcomers (with even the likes of bonus characters like Chrom and Daisy being fanservice) and I don't exactly expect them to follow up Simon and K. Rool with someone like Elma. Honestly, the only new guys I really think have a chance at this point for the base roster are Isabelle (she didn't get so prominent for nothing) and Gen 7 Pokemon (because Pokemon is a crowd-pleaser).

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Birdo probably won't get a trophy, either. At this point it would take a sheer miracle for Mona to even make it...

Birdo will never have her day

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Personally, I'm a 'Quality over Quantity' type of person, and I'm not too big a fan of the plethora of clones. Giving them a new name doesn't justify them for me. At least its possible to combine clones and their originals in the same slot. Makes it at least seem that there aren't as many of them.

Given the volume of characters that we saw a few days ago, I'm genuinely unsure how many characters total we'll see. Sakurai mentioned not to expect 'too many' newcomers, but maybe he was specifically talking about unique characters. Maybe 6-8 unique characters, matched by 6-8 clones, for 12-16 new characters total? Places it below Melee's newcomer count and Brawl's.

I will predict this, though. After a game like 'Smash Ultimate', there isn't much you can do to top what has already gone over-the-top. Sakurai stated in an interview that the alternative to Ultimate would be refining the series, but would only have about 1/3 of the roster. The next Smash game after Ultimate, which will probably be around a decade or so from now, will probably end up being a series reboot.

Given all that, I could see cases like Lucina and Dark Pit not staying, as well as cutting down on Links, Dr. Mario and some more obvious guest departures. Mainly assuming if the next game can't recycle assets as easily on a different system.

That said, I can't help but think that with all the reboot talk, people could do a photoshop of this Spongebob scene, to reflect that possibility.

 

[BlueMagician]

Cecil, Kain, Bartz, Lena, Terra, Celes... Celes would be a cool pick, but FF5 is my favorite

Riesz from SD3 I'd like to see as well but that's so out there as a possibility since it's still Japan only