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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Green_Pikmin*

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if you do gardevoir and gothitelle you have all gens up until when smash ultimate was proposed represented (since pichu is back).

you could then do a gen7 for DLC (pokemons a big draw its the type of thing casuals will pay to download).

Now the smash ballot obviously would have gotten a TON of pokemon requests. the smash ballot had a few major things on it, one thing was to vote in a character and with 700+ pokemon, while im sure some came out ahead, i'd wager there wasnt an overwhelming winner, probably a large list of "favorites" that stood out but no one having say double the votes of all the other pokemon. Well another thing that was on the smash ballot was a section where you could write in your reason WHY you wanted a certain character... this is where I think gardevoir with a gothitelle echo starts to have some logic behind it... now i said i bet there wasnt one pokemon that got voted for significantly more than others BUT i'd also guess if you catogorized peoples reasons for asking for certain pokemon you'd get a very common theme with "This Generation of pokemon isnt represented yet". In fact I'd bet that might have been the #1 reason for a pokemons inclusion people wrote down on the ballot... stuff like "gen3 was the first gen i played" or "gen 2 was my favorite and we dont have a rep" or "us younger fans would really like a Gen5 pokemon"... Sakurai is definitely the type of guy to appreciate that pokemon has stood the test of time and many different generations of kids have grew up playing and loving different generations of pokemon and want their time with that series acknowledged in smash... If sakurai saw THOSE out cries as the MAIN reasoning for a pokemons representation I think him settling on gardevoir and gothitelle makes a TON of sense. First hes already bringing everyone back so Pichu comes in and reps Gen2. the missing reps at the time of smash development then become Gen3 and Gen5 (with Gen7 not out yet), Sakurai then has to find a way to rep two gens in a game where he isnt adding "too many more characters", the obvious solution is one will be an "echo fighter". So now he has to choose a pokemon popular enough to warrant inclusion in smash AND has a pokemon from the other unrepresented Gen (either 3 or 5) that can be its echo fighter...

Suddenly Gardevoir with a Gothitelle echo doesnt seem like a crazy choice at all.

Now we COULD just get incineroar but honestly we could save Gen7 for DLC and calling this smash "ultimate", feels like every gen of pokemon having a rep seems like a fitting task to try and accomplish. THAT on top of the fact the ONE leak to guess at richter also didnt guess at anything that would have gotten it deconfirmed like guessing at ashley or mimikyu or something else that would have "deconfirmed" it after this direct AND it has a plausible story about how the information was obtained (not necessarily a LIKELY story but plausible) AND it wasnt a leak JUST saying richter, it also guessed at things that could have easily gotten it deconfirmed (dark samus ending up being an assist trophy or gardevoir being shown as a pokeball pokemon would have instantly killed the leak)...

Gardevoir is a popular pokemon and is from Gen 3 (a generation with no representation in smash). the Gen3 remakes were also the newest pokemon games out around the time smash ultimate goes into development. after this last direct echo fighters seem to be fairly plentiful (guessing at gothitelle when the only echo we had was daisy is, much like richter, leak poison. why even say it if you are faking a leak it kills it almost instantly) and Gothitelle COULD work as a gardevoir echo. Gothitelle is also a Gen5 pokemon, the one other Gen not represented in smash...

Also i think "Mario2" is Geno. call me biased but i think geno is going to be the FINAL "everyone is here" base game rep, and i could see sakurai going to great lengths to "hide" him and using a code word for his data.

I have more to say about this leak, mostly about how vergeben and lok18 seem to not know exactly which pokemon we are getting just who we arent and just how impressive guessing richter without faltering and guessing someone who got deconfirmed AND guessing a few other characters (although commonly guessed ones: k rool/dark samus) gives this leak, imo, a LOT of credibility.

im going to make a more in depth video on it if no one can give me a good reason it is likely fake, i seriously think its one of our most likely leaks right up there with skull kid and isabelle right now.
Just to add to your logical response, if iirc Smash 4 development finished in early 2012.
Pokémon Black 2/White 2 and Pokemon Omega Ruby/Alpha Shappire released between then and 2015 so getting Gardevoir and Gothitelle to Echo wouldn’t be so far fetched especially since the focus is on fan service. The fact that we got Gen 7 Pokéball items and music in game could be that their easier to implement and also a hint at DLC itself with a Gen 7 Newcomer coming in along with Melemele Island (Assuming 103 Stages is the total for the base game).
 

Diddy Kong

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There's a reason they are called "echo fighters" and not "Melee clones". They need to have very minimal balancing work. I don't know if your idea has that.
Balancing work you say?

Chrom has the same sword as Lucina, therefore he won't have the range issues of Roy. Having Chrom with the same speed as Roy would give Chrom a definite advantage over Roy.

Dixie Kong as a Diddy Kong Echo with a better recovery would also give Dixie a definite advantage over Diddy.

Having different attack properties, speeds, and all that is a great way to counter these points. If that's not balancing, I wouldn't trust you using a scale. :laugh:
 

T-Hell

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Guys I still think Cloud and Ryu are not coming back, Ridley and K.Rool are clearly not happening again and Waluigi is surely in.

Yes, I'm using Explorer, why do you ask?
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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-Waluigi
-Ashley
-Bomberman

Every character that was associated with Wario in some way got screwed over.
Bomberman atleast got some respect on his name. Waluigi got destroyed and Ashley was just there...only there with her red eyes waiting to kill Wario
Birdo probably won't get a trophy, either. At this point it would take a sheer miracle for Mona to even make it...
 

Diddy Kong

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Chrom has a different up special and his sword is neutral, it's not stronger at the hilt like Roy.
Dark Samus' has a normal roll compared to Samus' morph ball roll which instantly makes her better.
That normal roll of Dark Samus seemingly DOES give her an advantage over Samus as it currently stands. I do hope they gonna give Samus something extra to worth the trade off for this disadvantage.
Me too. I hope Sakurai remembers not everyone started playing video games before new millennium or played Splatoon.
Oh come on, there's a new Xenoblade character and a Pokemon character coming. That's just about 90% given.
 
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blazefan519

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I still can't believe the Inklings and Chrom are the only new guys among the newcomers.
Me too. I hope Sakurai remembers not everyone started playing video games before new millennium or played Splatoon.
The only reason I want newer games acknowledged is for Captain Toad to have at least some chance of getting in. He hasn't been confirmed as an assist but I think I kinda accepted him not getting in cri
 

monadoboy

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I just woke up but I had the greatest idea for Elma's reveal
Donkey Kong roams around Primordia and gets torn to shreds by a giant overleveled gorilla for the true Xenoblade experience
 

Diddy Kong

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I just woke up but I had the greatest idea for Elma's reveal
Donkey Kong roams around Primordia and gets torn to shreds by a giant overleveled gorilla for the true Xenoblade experience
Last character reveal already had his island blown up... What do you got against DK man!? :glare:
 

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鉄腕
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The biggest problem with Fire Emblem in Smash right now is, what would you target?

Marth's game is good enough unless you wanted to grab Tiki out of it.

Celica or Alm would have been great but *Shrug*

4 and Thracia have basically no Western appeal since they've never come here. Sakurai hasn't tried to force a Japan only character for a loooooooong time.

6 is already covered.

7 has Lyn as an AT. I'd love Hector as much as the next guy but it's just not happening.

8 is...........does anyone remember 8?

9 and 10 is done by Ike, maybe BK/Zelgius if they're feeling like an Echo.

Awakening is, well they got all the main characters, that's for sure.

Fates can goooooooooo **** itself.

And Three Houses isn't even out yet.
Considering Chrom was already apart of Robin's moveset, I would have have rather seen Lyn get promoted or Alm. "shrugs"

That said, I wouldn't say FE has a problem in Smash right now beyond needing non-generic stages. Granted I'm bias against Awakening, but like people complaining about Gen 1 Pokemon, there is no rule in terms of representing everything. If there was we would have Wario Land content and non-Sakurai Kirby stages.

Hopefully Echos will be (free?) DLC as I'd love to see Celica with Robin's weapon break swapped out for a recoil mechanic.

Poke floats is the worst stage in smash history and I'm glad to see the back of it. Change my mind!
I don't think it's the worst stage, but it is among the laziest IMO (granted Melee's development was a mess). I'm glad other Melee stages were prioritized over it.
 

drag0nscythe

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Considering Chrom was already apart of Robin's moveset, I would have have rather seen Lyn get promoted or Alm. "shrugs"

That said, I wouldn't say FE has a problem in Smash right now beyond needing non-generic stages. Granted I'm bias against Awakening, but like people complaining about Gen 1 Pokemon, there is no rule in terms of representing everything. If there was we would have Wario Land content and non-Sakurai Kirby stages.

Hopefully Echos will be (free?) DLC as I'd love to see Celica with Robin's weapon break swapped out for a recoil mechanic.



I don't think it's the worst stage, but it is among the laziest IMO (granted Melee's development was a mess). I'm glad other Melee stages were prioritized over it.
Hoping for dlc to get remaining missing stages back. Even the irrelevant flatzone 1 and 2.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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I just woke up but I had the greatest idea for Elma's reveal
Donkey Kong roams around Primordia and gets torn to shreds by a giant overleveled gorilla for the true Xenoblade experience
That reminds me, I got an idea for a possible FF character reveal this morning.

Peach and Cloud are exploring a serene-looking cavernous area that has a pond in it. Unbeknownst to them, a long-haired figure approaches them. Peach hears something and gets her frying pan ready, turns around and sees no one there. But the figure draws out his sword, then we see a shadow of Peach getting stabbed in the gut by this man, to Cloud's shock, then Peach sinks into the bottom of the pond. The stranger is revealed to be Sephiroth, who trades a few blows with Cloud before taking the high ground. Just before Sephiroth can make a finishing blow, the blade is caught midway through with a Butterfly Return maneuver, by a woman who jumped in between the two opponents: Tifa Lockheart, who then punches Seph away, so that she and Cloud team up. It ends with the three leaping and having the Buster sword, Masamune and Tifa's fist all clashing together at once.

I don't think it's the worst stage, but it is among the laziest IMO (granted Melee's development was a mess). I'm glad other Melee stages were prioritized over it.
If anything, they should at least keep the music from it, it's a good song.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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The fact that Lycanroc is so popular, and has such a presence in the anime leads me to believe we will get Lycanroc. Specifically in his Dusk Form.

It’s obvious Sakurai had prior knowledge of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. Mimikyu uses Lets Snuggle Forever as its attack. Nintendo, The Pokémon Company, and Sakurai aren’t idiots.
I don't know. The Dusk form never existed in Sun/Moon, and Sakurai would've had to have concept art of ALL the Lycanroc forms before 2015 ended to even consider the Dusk form.

And even then, Lycanroc may end up meeting the same fate as Zoroark. Also, when you look at Lycanroc's viability in UltraSun/UltraMoon, the Dusk form really isn't all that good, with its only ability doing nothing for its Rock-type attacks, while the Midnight form has an ability that ensures that Stone Edge will always hit its target.
 

osby

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I don't know. The Dusk form never existed in Sun/Moon, and Sakurai would've had to have concept art of ALL the Lycanroc forms before 2015 ended to even consider the Dusk form.

And even then, Lycanroc may end up meeting the same fate as Zoroark. Also, when you look at Lycanroc's viability in UltraSun/UltraMoon, the Dusk form really isn't all that good, with its only ability doing nothing for its Rock-type attacks, while the Midnight form has an ability that ensures that Stone Edge will always hit its target.
What's Lycanrock's Pokémon viability has anything to do with Smash? Most people don't even know Pokémon has a competitive side.
 

Guynamednelson

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Dusk Form's best chances are if they were already making the day form the playable one.
 

drag0nscythe

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What's Lycanrock's Pokémon viability has anything to do with Smash? Most people don't even know Pokémon has a competitive side.
Tried to enter it. Big *** of a group. Very rude and mean spirited.

Gave up on it then.
 

Diddy Kong

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Considering Chrom was already apart of Robin's moveset, I would have have rather seen Lyn get promoted or Alm. "shrugs"

That said, I wouldn't say FE has a problem in Smash right now beyond needing non-generic stages. Granted I'm bias against Awakening, but like people complaining about Gen 1 Pokemon, there is no rule in terms of representing everything. If there was we would have Wario Land content and non-Sakurai Kirby stages.

Hopefully Echos will be (free?) DLC as I'd love to see Celica with Robin's weapon break swapped out for a recoil mechanic.



I don't think it's the worst stage, but it is among the laziest IMO (granted Melee's development was a mess). I'm glad other Melee stages were prioritized over it.
That Celica idea is awesome honestly. But she would also need a little more speed to work with the recoil mechanic. In general, they could easily make her a more "balanced" version of Robin, much like how Lucina is a more balanced version of Marth. And possibly even Chrom being a more balanced Roy due to not having a broke man's tipper / butterknife.

The Levin Sword mechanic can be tossed around for fiery effects on Celica's Beloved Sofia sword, which might also damage her. And Celica would probably also be a little lighter than Robin.

I am quite torn on what to do with the Fire Emblem Echoes characters honestly. And with Echoes, I mean Shadows of Valentia not Lucina and Chrom.. :laugh: Alm and Celica are amazing characters, and so was Fire Emblem Echoes. I do want them in, and think they deserve it.

But Alm being yet another Blue Haired Sword Lord is gonna be difficult to sell to the masses. In a way, he could have a rough playstyle like Ike, but having Marth Falchion tipper mechanics because it's basically the same sword. He also would need mostly unique animations probably. The bow attack is easily to Echo from one of the Links however. Scendcale Final Smash is a given. Ragnarok Omega too for Celica.


I do hope we can get a few characters that reuse assets of excisting characters that aren't Echoes. This would be ideal for Alm, Celcia, but also Dixie Kong.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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What's Lycanrock's Pokémon viability has anything to do with Smash? Most people don't even know Pokémon has a competitive side.
I guess my main concern is that people may be giving Dusk form Lycanroc too much love, only to find out that it's going to be a Poke Ball Pokemon later on (which would seem likely for a quadrupedal Pokemon who lacks vines or psychic powers). I've been there with Zoroark.
 
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PSIGuy

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definitely not what monadoboy said:
I just woke up but I had the greatest idea for Elma's reveal
Donkey Kong roams around the jungle when the planet gets caught between two warring alien civilizations and explodes for the true Xeno series experience

If the Earth isn't lost somehow, it ain't Xeno. It'd make the killcount in Ridley and K. Rool's debuts look like a joke, too.
 
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Cosmic77

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The only reason I want newer games acknowledged is for Captain Toad to have at least some chance of getting in. He hasn't been confirmed as an assist but I think I kinda accepted him not getting in cri
I just want someone newer than summer 2016 so Corrin won't be the youngest character on the roster. That doesn't sit well with me at all.

I don't know. The Dusk form never existed in Sun/Moon, and Sakurai would've had to have concept art of ALL the Lycanroc forms before 2015 ended to even consider the Dusk form.

And even then, Lycanroc may end up meeting the same fate as Zoroark. Also, when you look at Lycanroc's viability in UltraSun/UltraMoon, the Dusk form really isn't all that good, with its only ability doing nothing for its Rock-type attacks, while the Midnight form has an ability that ensures that Stone Edge will always hit its target.
Well, Dusk Lycanroc debuted in the anime in August of last year, and I think the amount of time it takes to make a single episode of the Pokemon anime is about five to seven months. Seeing how Gladion's Midnight and Olivia's Midday were first seen in May and June respectively, the writers probably had an idea of incorporating Dusk into an arc of the anime at least by late 2016, meaning that Game Freak would've made Dusk Lycanroc an official Pokemon long before then.

I don't know when Sakurai finalized his decision, but if Dusk existed by mid 2016, I'd say he has a fair chance just like the rest. And keep in mind that a project proposal is different from a project plan. Staff for the game was still getting hired up until late spring, so the Pokemon rep may have not even been decided until development officially began.
 
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Wyoming

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Me too. I hope Sakurai remembers not everyone started playing video games before new millennium or played Splatoon.
He did that for Smash 4. it's our turn to have a partyyyy.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Saw someone mention Dusk Lycanroc and honestly?

Dusk form Lycanroc is some ****. As someone who's as outsider looking in, why do people like that form again? It barely stands out from its midday form. Midnight Lycanroc is top tier though.
I never understood the Lycanroc love myself either. While the Midnight form could work as a fighter, for the most part, I've only really seen Lycanroc being a Poke Ball Pokemon.
 

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鉄腕
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Hoping for dlc to get remaining missing stages back. Even the irrelevant flatzone 1 and 2.
I think the biggest missing stage right now is Wooly World. There is nothing I can really think of that would explain it's absence and that it is ironically more relevant now than it was in Smash Wii U.

Pac-Maze is a close second. Considering Golden Plains is back, the only thing I can think of is that the power pellet mechanic takes up more space than the golden fighter mechanic.

EDIT: In hindsight, Pac-Maze has the blue ghosts mechanic as well, which could only be done on individual 3DS screens.
 
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dezeray112

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In terms of Final Fantasy representation for Smash, I do recall that Sakurai stated that they could've used either Terra or Bartz for the Wii-U/3DS Smash during an interview with Tetsuya Nomura for Famitsu:

"Nomura: "It was an opportunity for Cloud to appear in Smash, how could I turn it down?"

Sakurai: "This isn’t an exact number, but among the requests for a Final Fantasy character to appear in Smash, around ¼ to ⅓ of the requests we got from fans were for Cloud. I really wanted to answer the desires of those fans, and even though I thought it would be impossible, I reached out anyway, just to try."

Nomura: "When we first talked, I asked “are you sure you’re okay with Cloud?” He’s not a character from a new game, after all."

Sakurai: "But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are."


Source: https://www.gamnesia.com/news/sakur...ve-used-terra-or-bartz-as-the-final-fantasy-c

So other than Cloud or any other characters from Final Fantasy VII, if you were asked for another Final Fantasy character, who would you want it to be for Smash Ultimate?
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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I think the biggest missing stage right now is Wooly World. There is nothing I can really think of that would explain it's absence and that it is ironically more relevant now than it was in Smash Wii U.

Pac-Maze is a close second. Considering Golden Plains is back, the only thing I can think of is that the power pellet mechanic takes up more space than the golden fighter mechanic.
Pyrosphere's absence could easily be explained with Ridley's playable inclusion. Of course, the playable Ridley, and Other M Ridley, are different entities altogether.
 

Zinith

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In terms of Final Fantasy representation for Smash, I do recall that Sakurai stated that they could've used either Terra or Bartz for the Wii-U/3DS Smash during an interview with Tetsuya Nomura for Famitsu:

"Nomura: "It was an opportunity for Cloud to appear in Smash, how could I turn it down?"

Sakurai: "This isn’t an exact number, but among the requests for a Final Fantasy character to appear in Smash, around ¼ to ⅓ of the requests we got from fans were for Cloud. I really wanted to answer the desires of those fans, and even though I thought it would be impossible, I reached out anyway, just to try."

Nomura: "When we first talked, I asked “are you sure you’re okay with Cloud?” He’s not a character from a new game, after all."

Sakurai: "But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are."

Source: https://www.gamnesia.com/news/sakur...ve-used-terra-or-bartz-as-the-final-fantasy-c

So other than Cloud or any other characters from Final Fantasy VII, if you were asked for another Final Fantasy character, who would you want it to be for Smash Ultimate?
Cecil or Terra
 

Untouch

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In terms of Final Fantasy representation for Smash, I do recall that Sakurai stated that they could've used either Terra or Bartz for the Wii-U/3DS Smash during an interview with Tetsuya Nomura for Famitsu:

"Nomura: "It was an opportunity for Cloud to appear in Smash, how could I turn it down?"

Sakurai: "This isn’t an exact number, but among the requests for a Final Fantasy character to appear in Smash, around ¼ to ⅓ of the requests we got from fans were for Cloud. I really wanted to answer the desires of those fans, and even though I thought it would be impossible, I reached out anyway, just to try."

Nomura: "When we first talked, I asked “are you sure you’re okay with Cloud?” He’s not a character from a new game, after all."

Sakurai: "But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are."

Source: https://www.gamnesia.com/news/sakur...ve-used-terra-or-bartz-as-the-final-fantasy-c

So other than Cloud or any other characters from Final Fantasy VII, if you were asked for another Final Fantasy character, who would you want it to be for Smash Ultimate?
Red Mage for the retro rep.
Not a lot of people have played FF1 though so I think it'd go over their heads.
 

Megadoomer

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In terms of Final Fantasy representation for Smash, I do recall that Sakurai stated that they could've used either Terra or Bartz for the Wii-U/3DS Smash during an interview with Tetsuya Nomura for Famitsu:

"Nomura: "It was an opportunity for Cloud to appear in Smash, how could I turn it down?"

Sakurai: "This isn’t an exact number, but among the requests for a Final Fantasy character to appear in Smash, around ¼ to ⅓ of the requests we got from fans were for Cloud. I really wanted to answer the desires of those fans, and even though I thought it would be impossible, I reached out anyway, just to try."

Nomura: "When we first talked, I asked “are you sure you’re okay with Cloud?” He’s not a character from a new game, after all."

Sakurai: "But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are."

Source: https://www.gamnesia.com/news/sakur...ve-used-terra-or-bartz-as-the-final-fantasy-c

So other than Cloud or any other characters from Final Fantasy VII, if you were asked for another Final Fantasy character, who would you want it to be for Smash Ultimate?
Terra from Final Fantasy 6. Cloud's great, but Terra could do a lot with the series' magic system and summons.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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In terms of Final Fantasy representation for Smash, I do recall that Sakurai stated that they could've used either Terra or Bartz for the Wii-U/3DS Smash during an interview with Tetsuya Nomura for Famitsu:

"Nomura: "It was an opportunity for Cloud to appear in Smash, how could I turn it down?"

Sakurai: "This isn’t an exact number, but among the requests for a Final Fantasy character to appear in Smash, around ¼ to ⅓ of the requests we got from fans were for Cloud. I really wanted to answer the desires of those fans, and even though I thought it would be impossible, I reached out anyway, just to try."

Nomura: "When we first talked, I asked “are you sure you’re okay with Cloud?” He’s not a character from a new game, after all."

Sakurai: "But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are."

Source: https://www.gamnesia.com/news/sakur...ve-used-terra-or-bartz-as-the-final-fantasy-c

So other than Cloud or any other characters from Final Fantasy VII, if you were asked for another Final Fantasy character, who would you want it to be for Smash Ultimate?
Terra, with her gimmick being Down B as an install super-esque thing that turns her into her Esper form
 

CyberHyperPhoenix

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It has a better color scheme and it looks more fierce.
I already liked Midday form, but Dusk is just better in every way.

Gross.jpeg
Idk man, Dusk basically being a recolour comes across as a little lazy more than anything. Like, they could've gone for a redesign, but nah, all it is is a new colour scheme of midday with minimal differences to make it barely stand out (outisde of colour). Not only that, but you can only get it through events or trading, so you'd think it'd look more... extravagant for a Pokemon of that nature, but I guess not.

Also, you know I'm right ;P
 

Untouch

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I wish square wasn't square because there are a lot of potential good JRPG reps like Chrono.
 
D

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Idk man, Dusk basically being a recolour comes across as a little lazy more than anything. Like, they could've gone for a redesign, but nah, all it is is a new colour scheme of midday with minimal differences to make it barely stand out (outisde of colour). Not only that, but you can only get it through events or trading, so you'd think it'd look more... extravagant for a Pokemon of that nature, but I guess not.
I do agree that it's unoriginal, but it doesn't really matter if it looks good.
That's my take, anyway.
Also, you know I'm right ;P
Hell no.
Midnight Lycanroc unironically looks like Verlisify.
 
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