Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TMNTSSB4]

Given all that, I could see cases like Lucina and Dark Pit not staying, as well as cutting down on Links, Dr. Mario and some more obvious guest departures. Mainly assuming if the next game can't recycle assets as easily on a different system.

That said, I can't help but think that with all the reboot talk, people could do a photoshop of this Spongebob scene, to reflect that possibility.

We must never cut the clones...ever (we can cut and that’s it...could be safe unless there’s some dark timeline where Sony buys his series out of pettiness, while Castlevania...same thing I guess but idk)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Noticed something about all 5 of yesterday's reveals, they all come from different eras

Simon: NES
King K. Rool: Early SNES
Richter: TG-CD/late SNES
Dark Samus: Gamecube/Wii
Chrom: 3DS

How cool is that?

 

[Radical Bones]

My best friend IRL is FINALLY into Smash again as he has a Switch and hasn't had a Nintendo console since the 64. It was so cool chatting to him about Ultimate and knowing I'll have someone to play with.

FYI, he's had all PS models and wants to see Lara Croft and Banjo Kazooie get in the game. That's a real casual Smasher POV.

 

[P.Kat]

In terms of Final Fantasy representation for Smash, I do recall that Sakurai stated that they could've used either Terra or Bartz for the Wii-U/3DS Smash during an interview with Tetsuya Nomura for Famitsu:

"Nomura: "It was an opportunity for Cloud to appear in Smash, how could I turn it down?"

Sakurai: "This isn’t an exact number, but among the requests for a Final Fantasy character to appear in Smash, around ¼ to ⅓ of the requests we got from fans were for Cloud. I really wanted to answer the desires of those fans, and even though I thought it would be impossible, I reached out anyway, just to try."

Nomura: "When we first talked, I asked “are you sure you’re okay with Cloud?” He’s not a character from a new game, after all."

Sakurai: "But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are."

Source: https://www.gamnesia.com/news/sakur...ve-used-terra-or-bartz-as-the-final-fantasy-c

So other than Cloud or any other characters from Final Fantasy VII, if you were asked for another Final Fantasy character, who would you want it to be for Smash Ultimate?

Terra, I guess? Her design is nice, but, I don't know what she can do, Squall or Lightning would be my choice cause I want a character that uses a Gunblade.

Terra, with her gimmick being Down B as an install super-esque thing that turns her into her Esper form

So what exactly can Terra do, what abilities does she have, and Esper form, what's that about?

 

[Scicky]

Than I hope we run out of long-desired Nintendo characters at some point.

Oh we will, getting there real quick at this rate.

There's always going to be older characters that people think deserve a spot, mind you, but we're running out of picks that feel truly obvious like K. Rool and Ridley did for so many people, including myself. Geno is my most wanted character and has been since Brawl, but even without him, I'd feel pretty happy with this roster and how the existing franchises are represented, it finally feels like everyone who needs to be here is here, and the rest is just icing on the cake.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

My best friend IRL is FINALLY into Smash again as he has a Switch and hasn't had a Nintendo console since the 64. It was so cool chatting to him about Ultimate and knowing I'll have someone to play with.

FYI, he's had all PS models and wants to see Lara Croft and Banjo Kazooie get in the game. That's a real casual Smasher POV.

Hey man, you should go tell him about SmashBoards.

 

[Cosmic77]

We must never cut the clones...ever (we can cut and that’s it...could be safe unless there’s some dark timeline where Sony buys his series out of pettiness, while Castlevania...same thing I guess but idk)

Sooner or later, we'll have to trim down the fat from the roster, and clones would be the best area to start with IMO.

Better for them to get cut than an unique character.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey man, you should go tell him about SmashBoards.

That's a terrible idea. He'll lose interest in Smash almost immediately.

 

[Wyoming]

My best friend IRL is FINALLY into Smash again as he has a Switch and hasn't had a Nintendo console since the 64. It was so cool chatting to him about Ultimate and knowing I'll have someone to play with.

FYI, he's had all PS models and wants to see Lara Croft and Banjo Kazooie get in the game. That's a real casual Smasher POV.

Reminds me of a colleague at work I found out was into gaming. Mentioned E3 and he was excited about Ultimate. I asked him who he wanted and it was K. Rool and Geno.

It was odd to hear those names in real life. Makes you wonder just how big their demand truly is.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Part of me want this to be the last Smash game, just supported with additional content and balances down the line.

Then the rest of me goes "but Krystal!"

 

[Crap-Zapper]

First time I'm doing my own "Unpopular opinions";

If Earthbound got their third character in the vain of Ninten, I'd be literally irritated/pissed if F-Zero could not receieve their second, even in form of an echo.


I would not mind Rhythm Heaven not getting a playbale representative, "if" the series were to be represented in the form of a stage and assist trophy.


It botheres me very much to think that Ken Masters from Street Fighter sounds likely to people. I'm a big Street Fighter fan, but this is as redicolous as Ms. Pac-Man. Because of last direct, I'm "ok" with Shadow, for Sonic as a franchise meaning a lot to Nintendo, and Shadow was a very requested character pre-Ultimate.

And lastly ...

I'm ok with Pokémon not recieving a new Gen 7 Pokémon. The generation is very well represented within Pokéball Assists. Just like Gen 3 were during Brawl.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Terra, I guess? Her design is nice, but, I don't know what she can do, Squall or Lightning would be my choice cause I want a character that uses a Gunblade.

So what exactly can Terra do, what abilities does she have, and Esper form, what's that about?

In the story, it's revealed Terra is half Esper, Espers are magical creatures used for summons. In battle, Terra can use her Esper form and her spells become a lot more devastating

 

[P.Kat]

Midnight Lycanroc unironically looks like Versilify

Now I don't like Midnight Lycanroc as much as the other forms, but how could you hurt Midnight like that, I know it can tank and has counter but, even I don't think it could take a blow like that, that's a OHKO. Too far my friend, too far.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I will predict this, though. After a game like 'Smash Ultimate', there isn't much you can do to top what has already gone over-the-top. Sakurai stated in an interview that the alternative to Ultimate would be refining the series, but would only have about 1/3 of the roster. The next Smash game after Ultimate, which will probably be around a decade or so from now, will probably end up being a series reboot.

Eh, I don't think it would be THAT long from a new Smash Game... Smash sells SUPER well... The most I could see is possibly a Smash game being made is near the end of the next console's lifecycle. Now, there will likely be a new director for Smash Bros and there will also be lots of cuts.

Spoiler: Cut Predictions for Smash 6

If no Echoes exist:

Young Link
Toon Link
Bowser Jr.
Rosalina and Luma
Corrin
Lucina
Dark Pit
Dark Samus
Chrom
Pichu
Roy
Wolf
Shulk
Daisy
Lucas
Mewtwo
Ritcher
Duck Hunt
Dr.Mario
Wii Fit Trainer

If Echoes do Exist:
Young Link
Bowser Jr.
Rosalina and Luma
Corrin
Shulk
Mewtwo
Duck Hunt
Wii Fit Trainer

I'm also starting to think that we may see a great migration of clones to Echoes, to even out the roster. Maybe even discarding certain ones to have characters have only one Echo. I also think that we'll see more new IPs come in, though with the success of arms as of now... It's hard to say if it's gonna get Chibi-Robo'd

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Oh we will, getting there real quick at this rate.

There's always going to be older characters that people think deserve a spot, mind you, but we're running out of picks that feel truly obvious like K. Rool and Ridley did for so many people, including myself. Geno is my most wanted character and has been since Brawl, but even without him, I'd feel pretty happy with this roster and how the existing franchises are represented, it finally feels like everyone who needs to be here is here, and the rest is just icing on the cake.

Yeah, I agree. With the elephants in the room potentially all being out of the way, people would finally give-much needed attention to the lesser-lauded Nintendo characters, and curious omissions. With Rool's moveset in particular definitely seeming to be a laundry list of what was wanted the most, this paints a bright future of what fan support can bring.

 

[Deleted member]

Now I don't like Midnight Lycanroc as much as the other forms, but how could you hurt Midnight like that, I know it can tank and has counter but, even I don't think it could take a blow like that, that's a OHKO. Too far my friend, too far.

First off, this has nothing to do with what it looks like.
Second, no it can't. Its defenses are only slightly less terrible than Midday's, and combine that with its mediocre speed and you've got a jack of all trades of a Pokemon.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Though I think I see a pattern emerging

Only the most requested (Ridley, K. Rool, Belmont) will get new movesets
Characters with moderate support that can be Echo'd will get in like Chrom and Dark Samus but characters like Ashley, Waluigi and Krystal have to settle for being Assist Trophies (for now?)

Only "relevancy" pick is Inkling and those kids were so fresh we wanted them in anyway.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

That's a terrible idea. He'll lose interest in Smash almost immediately.

Your not wrong

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Though I think I see a pattern emerging

Only the most requested (Ridley, K. Rool, Belmont) will get new movesets
Characters with moderate support that can be Echo'd will get in like Chrom and Dark Samus but characters like Ashley, Waluigi and Krystal have to settle for being Assist Trophies (for now?)

Only "relevancy" pick is Inkling and those kids were so fresh we wanted them in anyway.

I honestly see no problem with this.
The ones with moderate will achieve fans now that the big guns are inn.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I was scrolling through the Smash website this morning, mainly because I remembered that some of us were considering the idea of additional Final Fantasy characters. I get the feeling that Cloud, Midgar, and the two music tracks we got are probably all we’re getting (even though One Winged Angel would make it perfect in my humble opinion).

To further solidify this opinion, we can look at the following image.

As we can see, Cloud is labeled by his series as “Final Fantasy VII”. Bayonetta is labeled by “Bayonetta 2”. Based on the other fighters, no other series is tied to a single game.

For Bayonetta, the only viable excuse for focusing on Bayonetta 2 and not the series as a whole is because that’s when Nintendo hopped on in terms of the series. With Final Fantasy VII, we know Sakurai specifically went for Cloud rather than a new character like Noctis, or a more closely-Nintendo themed one.

This here leads me to believe that if we were to get another Final Fantasy character, it’d be Tifa. I think that’s a stretch anyway, mainly because if Nintendo is spending money on what we have already, I doubt they’re looking to go deeper unless they got more.

But hey, even having Cloud is awesome to begin with so i’m not complaining!

 

[Staarih]

Yeah, I don't know. I've been kinda annoyed at the people who all the sudden started wanting thousands of Echo fighters just because of a name change but after the last direct I pretty much feel the same way they do.

I kinda feel like a sheep for all the sudden being ok with +12 Echo Fighters, especially when I was so against them earlier, but eh. Is what it is.

I feel you, I'm in the same boat. Initially I was expecting just a few more Echoes, being kinda iffy with the ideas of Chrom and Dark Samus thrown around. Low and behold, they're actually in, and my perception on Echoes changed completely, now expecting them to go pretty heavy on them (and actually being OK with it).

Oh well, with Smash pre-release periods always being so unpredictable, I tend to go from "I hate this" to "I love this" in a whim anyway.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

So, this is never going to happen, But how would you all feel if we got an Overwatch Character? As a Nerd of Overwatch, I'd be very happy.

 

[Koopaul]

I still don't care if we get a lot more or a little more echoes. It all comes down to who will be those echoes. I don't want echo fighters for the sake of echo fighters. They should be something fun too.

I wasn't happy to see Dark Samus because she was an echo fighter, I was happy to see her because I actually like Dark Samus.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I honestly see no problem with this.
The ones with moderate will achieve fans now that the big guns are inn.

Seems that Waluigi's the default "wen Smash?" now so maybe Krystal and Ashley will get a boost next time around.
I just hope Bandana Dee got a lot of support

 

[Pakky]

I was scrolling through the Smash website this morning, mainly because I remembered that some of us were considering the idea of additionally Final Fantasy characters. I get the feeling that Cloud, Midgar, and the two music tracks we got are probably all we’re getting (even though One Winged Angel would make it perfect in my humble opinion).

To further solidify this opinion, we can look at the following image.
View attachment 157082As we can see, Cloud is labeled by his series as “Final Fantasy VII”. Bayonetta is labeled by “Bayonetta 2”. Based on the other fighters, no other series is tied to a single game.

For Bayonetta, the only viable excuse for focusing on Bayonetta 2 and not the series as a whole is because that’s when Nintendo hopped on in terms of the series. With Final Fantasy VII, we know Sakurai specifically went for Cloud rather than a new character like Noctis, or a more closely-Nintendo themed one.

This here leads me to believe that if we were to get another Final Fantasy character, it’s be Tifa. I think that’s a stretch anyway, mainly because if Nintendo is spending money on what we have already, I doubt they’re looking to go deeper unless they got more.

But hey, even having Cloud is awesome to begin with so i’m not complaining!

Tifa or Sephy would be ideal.

And we know who would be accompanying Bayo

 

[Iridium]

So, this is never going to happen, But how would you all feel if we got an Overwatch Character? As a Nerd of Overwatch, I'd be very happy.

Um, memes I guess? I would expect memes. And a lot of fanart.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I feel you, I'm in the same boat. Initially I was expecting just a few more Echoes, being kinda iffy with the ideas of Chrom and Dark Samus thrown around. Low and behold, they're actually in, and my perception on Echoes changed completely, now expecting them to go pretty heavy on them (and actually being OK with it).

Oh well, with Smash pre-release periods always being so unpredictable, I tend to go from "I hate this" to "I love this" in a whim anyway.

Honestly, I used to be Meh about Clones, due to the fact they chose boring characters like Lucina, Dark Pit, etc. (People are gonna hate me for that lol)
But I'm actually feeling better about them, not because of the name change, but due to the fact that They are choosing funner characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I just hope it doesn't get too nuts. If 1/3rd of the cast had a clone then that would be a bit of a shame, really.

Ultimately Smash is a character game though so I'll accept it.

1/3rd of the roster being what people call a "clone" isn't too bad. With what people call a clone, that includes the likes of Ganondorf, Wolf, Lucas and the like.

I myself don't count those as clones, but I do consider all Echoes, plus Young Link, Pichu and Dr.Mario as clones. And even those characters I celebrate now.

It all depends on what sort of debt they bring to the roster. Which is innitually, I thought Lucina was a great addition to Smash 4, but Dark Pit was not. Now after playing Uprising, I can enjoy Dark Pit. And in a way, he was born out of being a alt costume in Smash, so that puts him in a special case in my opinion.

There's a couple of more potential Echoes I can be excited about, and the current 2 of my most wanted are most likely to make it as Echo Fighters- being Impa and Dixie Kong. And even then there's more to be excited about.

For example, if Isaac makes it in, he can have Echoes like Richter Belmont with Felix and Matthew. Then there's Funky Kong who would be a awesome, stylish and super cool Echo for Donkey Kong. Ninten for Ness makes a lot of sense, Raichu emulating a N64 Smash Pikachu Echo, Slippy Toad being a more clumsy Falco Echo (remember how in the Snake Codec in Brawl, Slippy mentoined how he invented the way way Falco uses the Reflector, plus toads jump high), Celica as a Robin Echo with recoil damage and more focus on fire magic and Charizard X getting in as it's own character being a Charizard Echo and giving the 'pure Charizard mains' of Smash 4 a bone (buff him just to be sure)... All these potential Echoes make me quite excited, even if all of them aren't AS likely as my most wanted two.

 

[Iridium]

I was scrolling through the Smash website this morning, mainly because I remembered that some of us were considering the idea of additional Final Fantasy characters. I get the feeling that Cloud, Midgar, and the two music tracks we got are probably all we’re getting (even though One Winged Angel would make it perfect in my humble opinion).

To further solidify this opinion, we can look at the following image.
View attachment 157082As we can see, Cloud is labeled by his series as “Final Fantasy VII”. Bayonetta is labeled by “Bayonetta 2”. Based on the other fighters, no other series is tied to a single game.

For Bayonetta, the only viable excuse for focusing on Bayonetta 2 and not the series as a whole is because that’s when Nintendo hopped on in terms of the series. With Final Fantasy VII, we know Sakurai specifically went for Cloud rather than a new character like Noctis, or a more closely-Nintendo themed one.

This here leads me to believe that if we were to get another Final Fantasy character, it’d be Tifa. I think that’s a stretch anyway, mainly because if Nintendo is spending money on what we have already, I doubt they’re looking to go deeper unless they got more.

But hey, even having Cloud is awesome to begin with so i’m not complaining!

a bit unlikely, but what if they added Vincent into Smash? Cool, but unlikely, at least compared to Black Mage and even Tifa.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Bandana Dee made his debut in 1996, so he's pretty old like Richter and K. Rool. And Elma's chance is pretty dead at this point with the clear heavy focus on majorly popular character for all our unique newcomers (with even the likes of bonus characters like Chrom and Daisy being fanservice) and I don't exactly expect them to follow up Simon and K. Rool with someone like Elma. Honestly, the only new guys I really think have a chance at this point for the base roster are Isabelle (she didn't get so prominent for nothing) and Gen 7 Pokemon (because Pokemon is a crowd-pleaser).

Ehhhh, might just be me, but I definitely consider Bandana Dee a modern character. Yes, if we're talking about year of origin and such he's not, but when people look at him they don't think about 1/3 of a minigame where his appearance wasn't that of a unique character in any way, they think about SSU, RtD, SA, and whichever spinoffs he's also had major roles in along the way, so he definitely scratches that modern character itch. When a character is reinvented that much I consider them recent characters, I do the same with Palutena for that matter.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So, this is never going to happen, But how would you all feel if we got an Overwatch Character? As a Nerd of Overwatch, I'd be very happy.

I really couldn't give any less of a **** about Overwatch so I'd go like how I did with K.Rool only instead of "Oh wow they actually did it. Good for some friends of mine" I'd go "Wow I really don't care about this at all"

 

[Iridium]

Honestly, I think we are more likely to get a King of Fighters character than Overwatch, and Mii Costume representation helps.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Honestly, I think we are more likely to get a King of Fighters character than Overwatch, and Mii Costume representation helps.

Hey, I never said it was happening xD

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

A third of the roster, at this point, would be around Melee's size of the roster, and remember how many clones that game had?

For Mario, I'd expect exactly the same characters, with Dr. Mario being replaced with BJ or Rosa, tbh. 4 or 5.

Zelda? Ugh... As much as I wouldn't like it, the main three would take priority, with either Shiek being shoved back into Zelda's slot, or a clone character being the fourth rep, if any. 3 or 4.

Pokémon? Same roster, but maybe take Pichu out and replace him with Lucario or the Trainer. Four.

Kirby? I expect at least Kirby and one of the other two, with the main three at most. Likely two.

Metroid? Samus with a Zamus transform and Ridley. That's really all we need. Two.

DK? Oh... This is a toughie. Donkey Kong and... I wanna say Diddy will be there too, and MAYBE K. Rool or Dixie? I don't see it going beyond 3. Likely two.

Yoshi? We all already know, the poor guy. 1.

Star Fox? Yeah, two IF we're even lucky. Likely 1.

F-Zero? Original 12 have the nostalgia and immunity idol, so I hope he gets to stay. 1, if any.

Mother? See above. 1, if any.

That's a low-end of 21, and a high-end of 25 characters already.

Maybe we'll see Marth too, and MAYBE Pit, Inklings, and Villager if they swap a few of the more niche series in favor of newer successes.

This is how I feel. I'm willing to take off one from Mario, Zelda, and Pokémon to make room for more, just not sure if the developers would.

 

[osby]

Ehhhh, might just be me, but I definitely consider Bandana Dee a modern character. Yes, if we're talking about year of origin and such he's not, but when people look at him they don't think about 1/3 of a minigame where his appearance wasn't that of a unique character in any way, they think about SSU, RtD, SA, and whichever spinoffs he's also had major roles in along the way. When a character is reinvented that much I consider them modern characters, I do the same with Palutena for that matter.

I hope Sakurai thinks differently, I'd really like to see him as playable.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

It's funny, somehow, I've been viewing it like;

God Tier Support;

Ridley - King K. Rool.

Questionable changes (E3 edition), support;

Chrom - Dark Samus.

Brawl Hype support (excluding third parties);

Isaac - Geno - Skull Kid.

Moderate strong support still in the running;

Dixie Kong - Bandana Waddle Dee - Impa.

The expected Echoes (8.8.18 edition) support;

Isabelle - Shadow the Hedgehog.

Original Twelve Support;

Porky Minch - Black Shadow.

Because of pattern and conspiracy support;

Rhythm Heaven rep - Pokémon Gen 7.

IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY support;

Waluigi - Ashley.

Because they seem ****ing conveniant, but no one really wants, support;

Ken Masters - Ms. Pac-Man.

And the endless stream of third parties;

Banjo & Kazooie - Crash Bandicoot - Rayman.


Just how I see it right now.

 

[Iridium]

Hey, I never said it was happening xD

In all seriousness, I wonder what fighting game characters not from Smash could get added if possible. Street Fighter yes, King of Fighters yes, Mortal Kombat low (people want the blood most likely), Tekken yes.

 

[Deleted member]

I want more and more Echo Fighters because they allow characters that wouldn't normally make it in a chance. Chrom, Dark Samus and Richter are all characters we would never see in a Smash game had they not been Echoes.
And the other possibilities? Shadow, Ken, Impa, all characters with their own fans that can be made happy with such a simple thing.

And what I want from this? Hitmonchan as a Little Mac Echo!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In all seriousness, I wonder what fighting game characters not from Smash could get added if possible. Street Fighter yes, King of Fighters yes, Mortal Kombat low (people want the blood most likely), Tekken yes.

Honestly I think Sakurai would want to include Terry Bogard, a recent interview had him mention that he played King of Fighters back in the day. Then there's how KoF had short hops, running, perfect shielding, shield breaks, spot dodges and dodge rolls as unique things. When someone on twitter pointed this out I was shocked. Have no affinity for SNK but that'd be poetic lol

 

[osby]

A third of the roster, at this point, would be around Melee's size of the roster, and remember how many clones that game had?

For Mario, I'd expect exactly the same characters, with Dr. Mario being replaced with BJ or Rosa, tbh. 4 or 5.

Zelda? Ugh... As much as I wouldn't like it, the main three would take priority, with either Shiek being shoved back into Zelda's slot, or a clone character being the fourth rep, if any. 3 or 4.

Pokémon? Same roster, but maybe take Pichu out and replace him with Lucario or the Trainer. Four.

Kirby? I expect at least Kirby and one of the other two, with the main three at most. Likely two.

Metroid? Samus with a Zamus transform and Ridley. That's really all we need. Two.

DK? Oh... This is a toughie. Donkey Kong and... I wanna say Diddy will be there too, and MAYBE K. Rool or Dixie? I don't see it going beyond 3. Likely two.

Yoshi? We all already know, the poor guy. 1.

Star Fox? Yeah, two IF we're even lucky. Likely 1.

F-Zero? Original 12 have the nostalgia and immunity idol, so I hope he gets to stay. 1, if any.

Mother? See above. 1, if any.

That's a low-end of 21, and a high-end of 25 characters already.

Maybe we'll see Marth too, and MAYBE Pit, Inklings, and Villager if they swap a few of the more niche series in favor of newer successes.

This is how I feel. I'm willing to take off one from Mario, Zelda, and Pokémon to make room for more, just not sure if the developers would.

Transforming characters are still their own characters, so I can't see development team shoving them to the same slot to artificially lessen the number of fighters.
I also can't see them prioritising Mother and Zero just because they are old, but who knows.