Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Shroob]

I didn't even know Undertale was a thing in Japan. I thought it was mostly a US thing along the lines of FNaF.

 

[KMDP]

You know, I can't really see Sans getting into Smash.

I feel that Third Parties need a certain pedigree to get in (Bayonetta probably had the bare minimum to justify getting in).

Out of all the Indie Characters; Shantae, having a long history with Nintendo, has the best chance.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Looks like Indies might be more popular in Japan than we thought!

With Toad and BF, we already see vanilla Toad as Peach's moveset to the point of being elaborated on, instead of just her special thing. And while BF would be cool, his balloon shtick is already represented through one of Villager's specials. He didn't get that removed, did he?

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I'm just gonna put a thought out there.
The jump from Melee to Brawl, depending on opinion of to , was either 18/15 or 17/14 newcomers added (Characters/Slots).
Similarly, Brawl to Smash 4 brought back a cut veteran and 17/15 newcomers.
We've gotten another 7 cut veterans returning. Of approximate equal pace, 10 "actual" newcomers seems like a decent estimate. 3 revealed so far. 7 remaining to be shown off.
I feel like we're going to get two more BIG smash directs. One now, and one in November which'll be comparable to the 50 fact extravaganza and unload the game's demo/testfire equivilent.
I see 3 characters revealed during each, and 1 more newcomer who gets revealed independent during the interim.

This has been my reasoning for 10 newcomers, and it just feels right.

Idk if I agree about getting 3 in this direct...but it would be awesome if it opened with a unique newcomer trailer, had an echo reveal mid direct similar to Daisy, and ended with a unique newcomer trailer. That would be ideal, but unlikely lol

 

[domriver]

Um how does Diglett "scratch?" I know its an attack but IT HAS NO HANDS just a eyes and nose and a weenie type body!
What about that KEY pokemon for Smash

 

[Murlough]

Sans would be amazing to play in Smash. I can't even begin to guess how they would design him though. I've never seen a decent looking 3D model of him so I would guess he'd be 2D but even his 2D sprite would look completely out of place.

 

[Arcadenik]

People discussing the merits of 3rd parties that aren't game characters is not off-topic. They're still just 3rd parties people want. If you don't like the discussion, you don't need to participate(but you also should not be hostile towards others who actually like the characters. Likewise, people are allowed to dislike the idea too. There is nothing wrong with that).

We're not going to shut down discussion because it simply doesn't tickle your fancy. And no, it's not stupid to want a character in that seems impossible whatsoever. Please show some maturity and realize that it's just opinions. Be respectful of them.

Ugh... I really want Team Rocket and Captain N so bad.

He's one of them, honestly. I'd probably dub them "the Forever Five" because they've regularly been on wishlists since even before this site opened: K.Rool, Geno, Toad, Balloon Fighter, and Banjo Kazooie. Bomberman and Ridley would have fit the bill too.

Forever Five? And neither Meowth or Dixie Kong are in this group? FML

 

[MaestroDavros]

Maybe I'm the only person in the world who grew up playing licensed games, but there are a plenty of non-video game characters with iconic and influential video games. I'd love some "4th party" characters if they were to be based on/inspired by their games.

Smash has built up a reputation to be a crossover of "Nintendo's All-Star's" first and foremost, with gaming in general as second.

Does that mean I think Smash should never include a fighter from a game with a non-video game origin? No, actually. So long as they're fun to play as and faithful to their source material, I don't mind at all.

(Just don't make them overpowered)

 

[Door Key Pig]

You know, I can't really see Sans getting into Smash.

I feel that Third Parties need a certain pedigree to get in (Bayonetta probably had the bare minimum to justify getting in).

Out of all the Indie Characters; Shantae, having a long history with Nintendo, has the best chance.

Gosh I hope Crash meets that pedigree.
And yeah, name another indie series with multiple titles that has such a history w/ Nintendo.

 

[SlickWylde]

It's interesting what causes us to get hyped for characters. I would be really hyped if King K Rool would appear (I'm 99% he won't), but I don't even have much history with the character. I only played the original DK game on the old systems a few times and watched the cartoon once or twice. But when people starting throwing around movesets for him pre Sm4sh, I was immediately on board. Regardless of what characters "deserve" spots in Smash, I think King K Rool would be such a funny, dorky character that you can't help but love.

So what gets you excited for your most wanted newcomers??

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I didn't even know Undertale was a thing in Japan. I thought it was mostly a US thing along the lines of FNaF.

It did get published over there, unlike things like Mortal Kombat and most Spyro games.

You know, I can't really see Sans getting into Smash.

I feel that Third Parties need a certain pedigree to get in (Bayonetta probably had the bare minimum to justify getting in).

Out of all the Indie Characters; Shantae, having a long history with Nintendo, has the best chance.

More to the point, Sans isn't even the main character of Undertale, Frisk is.

Also, I agree with all your points (especially the last one).

 

[StupendousMike]

Shadow and Ken won't get in...third party reps are supposed to be gaming legends. Adding in echo Fighters cheapens the fact they are even there.

I would argue that Ken is a gaming legend in his own right, as is Ms. Pac-Man, but I get what you're saying.

 

[Pakky]

You know, I can't really see Sans getting into Smash.

I feel that Third Parties need a certain pedigree to get in (Bayonetta probably had the bare minimum to justify getting in).

Out of all the Indie Characters; Shantae, having a long history with Nintendo, has the best chance.

It just seems kinda cheap to have Undertale be repped at all when there are so many other choices from gaming history to include in smash.

I mean other than it being obnoxiously forced onto people Like the Pope what has it done that MOTHER hasn't done already?

 

[CroonerMike]

Sux lol

 

[Shroob]

This has been my reasoning for 10 newcomers, and it just feels right.

Idk if I agree about getting 3 in this direct...but it would be awesome if it opened with a unique newcomer trailer, had an echo reveal mid direct similar to Daisy, and ended with a unique newcomer trailer. That would be ideal, but unlikely lol

"Your wish has been granted. In one Direct, Sakurai will confirm the Veggie Burger newcomers, leaving us back at square one"

 

[Noipoi]

You know, I can't really see Sans getting into Smash.

I feel that Third Parties need a certain pedigree to get in (Bayonetta probably had the bare minimum to justify getting in).

Out of all the Indie Characters; Shantae, having a long history with Nintendo, has the best chance.

Sans is already in Smash.

 

[Murlough]

It's interesting what causes us to get hyped for characters. I would be really hyped if King K Rool would appear (I'm 99% he won't), but I don't even have much history with the character. I only played the original DK game on the old systems a few times and watched the cartoon once or twice. But when people starting throwing around movesets for him pre Sm4sh, I was immediately on board. Regardless of what characters "deserve" spots in Smash, I think King K Rool would be such a funny, dorky character that you can't help but love.

So what gets you excited for your most wanted newcomers??

Character design mostly.

If I have a history with a character than that helps but thats usually secondary to the character design.

Moveset potential is there but not as important as the first 2 for me.

Thats the only reason I want Elma, Ashley, Viridi, K. Rool, or Captain Toad. I just like them. Never had any experience with them but I want them, anyway.

EDIT: This is also why I don't want certain characters. Minecraft is hella popular but Steve is uglier than dirt. Ugh.

 

[KMDP]

Gosh I hope Crash meets that pedigree.
And yeah, name another indie series with multiple titles that has such a history w/ Nintendo.

Crash Bandicoot, like Final Fantasy VII, was a system seller for the Playstation, and since Crash Bandicoot: Wrath of Cortex, almost all of Crash's titles have been on Nintendo systems.

I'd say he meets the required pedigree.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I would argue that Ken is a gaming legend in his own right, as is Ms. Pac-Man, but I get what you're saying.

Ms. Pac-Man has her own share of problems for getting in, but here's another reason Ken and Shadow are off the table - why would they want to pay the licensing fees for characters they have no intentions of giving their full love and attention to, especially since both characters have more unique things they can do? With Dark Pit, Lucina, and Daisy, Nintendo's at no loss for them since they own them, but in addition to the cheapness factor, money is a big issue here. Sakurai's paying for the privilege to work with these characters. He'll want to put extra attention to them (It's why third parties all play so unique compared to the rest of the cast.)

 

[Noipoi]

It's interesting what causes us to get hyped for characters. I would be really hyped if King K Rool would appear (I'm 99% he won't), but I don't even have much history with the character. I only played the original DK game on the old systems a few times and watched the cartoon once or twice. But when people starting throwing around movesets for him pre Sm4sh, I was immediately on board. Regardless of what characters "deserve" spots in Smash, I think King K Rool would be such a funny, dorky character that you can't help but love.

So what gets you excited for your most wanted newcomers??

I love the character, she's got great moveset potential, and beating the hell out of Ridley or Ganondorf with a teeny-tiny witch girl sounds awesome!
The possibilities for curses or hexes and demon summoning sound really fun, and it'd be really great to see a character I relate to become a Smash character!

 

[SvartWolf]

screw goku, this is the dragon ball rep we need.

Spoiler: Top-Secret

he even can rep chrono trigger and dragon quest in one swoop!

regarding pokemon rep.... I would love a gen 7 rep... although... i don't like zerarora.
seriously, odd numbered generation not named gen one get screwed hard. We need an Odd number pokemon trainer! Basic pokemon, Litwick (5th gen), stage 1 Kirlia (3d gen), stage 2 pokemon Kommo-o (7th gen)...

Regarding James bond... dude have only ONE important videogame, and it should be, as stated before, a licencing nightmare, to the point that i don't know who the hell owns the license anymore....

Regarding sasn, although i share the opinion that his character is overrated, is not a bad character by any means. people only just go bananas becasue he shatters the 4th wall. but the interaction with the skeletons brothers were lotta fun.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

At this point we need a bombshell reveal or info dump.

I don’t really think I said anything offensive. I was pointing out why I personally think non-gaming fighters literally don’t fit the scope of Smash. If someone wants to advocate the opposite, that’s fine. The bottom of my post was half-kidding.

Anyway, I don’t want anyone in particular disconfirmed, but I would like to see a bombshell confirmation (if not 2) and a bombshell disconfirmation. I want an “official” mixup. Vergeben has given some info, but who knows if that actually counts for anything?

This is pretty much the only thread I frequent, and that’s my fault. However, the same 5 topics is growing tiring. There’s got to be SOMETHING we haven’t discussed...right? RIGHT?!

*offers nothing of substance

 

[Dragoncharystary]

So what gets you excited for your most wanted newcomers??

Well for Shadow, listening to this song makes me want him in.

Admittedly, it's not the best reason for wanting a character.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It's interesting what causes us to get hyped for characters. I would be really hyped if King K Rool would appear (I'm 99% he won't), but I don't even have much history with the character. I only played the original DK game on the old systems a few times and watched the cartoon once or twice. But when people starting throwing around movesets for him pre Sm4sh, I was immediately on board. Regardless of what characters "deserve" spots in Smash, I think King K Rool would be such a funny, dorky character that you can't help but love.

So what gets you excited for your most wanted newcomers??

For Bandana Dee, we’d finally get to see the Return to Dreamland crew together and playable

For Elma - she brings something new to the table (DUAL swords; Pit and Dark Pit don’t count), we may finally see giant mechs in smash with a potential Skell final smash, and I just really want that dope ass Hiroyuki Sawano music

 

[Rockaphin]

Ms. Pac-Man has her own share of problems for getting in, but here's another reason Ken and Shadow are off the table - why would they want to pay the licensing fees for characters they have no intentions of giving their full love and attention to, especially since both characters have more unique things they can do? With Dark Pit, Lucina, and Daisy, Nintendo's at no loss for them since they own them, but in addition to the cheapness factor, money is a big issue here. Sakurai's paying for the privilege to work with these characters. He'll want to put extra attention to them (It's why third parties all play so unique compared to the rest of the cast.)

While I agree with most of your points, I can think of one reason the dev team would consider Ken.

A common complaint about Ryu is the fact that there's SF inputs in Smash. "They don't work!" or "I'd play the character if it weren't for the inputs!" Maybe the devs could add Ken and remove the inputs. Ken having different properties than Ryu can be used to help balance the attacks since there's no inputs to strengthen said moves. This way, Ryu players that like the inputs can stick with Ryu and the people that don't like the commands can try Ken.

Just a thought I had. Not saying I support/Don't support, but I could see this being considered for a development team.

 

[SquashiniKun]

What modes are y'all hoping to be revealed in the direct?

 

[BlueMagician]

That prediction poll is just that, predictions. Stuff like Sans and Steve are predicted out of popularity of their series but actually don't have a lot of supporters.

I think indie fighters will probably not happen for now because their companies often don't have any other titles.

 

[Door Key Pig]

At this point we need a bombshell reveal or info dump.

I don’t really think I said anything offensive. I was pointing out why I personally think non-gaming fighters literally don’t fit the scope of Smash. If someone wants to advocate the opposite, that’s fine. The bottom of my post was half-kidding.

Anyway, I don’t want anyone in particular disconfirmed, but I would like to see a bombshell confirmation (if not 2) and a bombshell disconfirmation. I want an “official” mixup. Vergeben has given some info, but who knows if that actually counts for anything?

This is pretty much the only thread I frequent, and that’s my fault. However, the same 5 topics is growing tiring. There’s got to be SOMETHING we haven’t discussed...right? RIGHT?!

*offers nothing of substance

Well if Twintelle somehow gets in as playable, they may or may not reduce the butt if they did so to Snake.

 

[T!t!]

Don't forget they will most certainly talk about 5 minutes about Mii fighters. I know that won't really create much hype at all but still they have some things to clarify and I'm convinced they will do so tomorrow.

Do Miis use custom moves like in Sm4sh? or do they have a few preset movesets to choose from? Are costumes making a return? how does this voice choice work? How are Miis gonna be playable in online mode? (under which restrictions/rules) While I'm not the biggest Mii supporter myself, I'm pretty sure they need to clarify these things pre-release and a Smash specific Direct seems to be the only moment they will be able to answer these questions in the near future until the game launches. Sorry folks, 5 minutes 4 Mii talk reserved.

 

[KMDP]

Seems like the Image Upload Problem's been fixed.

Not my best work, but it's good for only an hours work. I've been waiting all day to post it.

 

[Pyra]

At this point we need a bombshell reveal or info dump.

Not only do I agree, I also fully expect it. 100%.

 

[Untouch]

What modes are y'all hoping to be revealed in the direct?

A multi-character stock option like PM has.
Smash 4 already proved that it can be done, and it's long overdue.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Crash Bandicoot, like Final Fantasy VII, was a system seller for the Playstation, and since Crash Bandicoot: Wrath of Cortex, almost all of Crash's titles have been on Nintendo systems.

I'd say he meets the required pedigree.

Yeah, Crash honestly has a large gaming history(even if he didn't have a Nintendo appearance, he'd still have a reasonable chance). The problem with some Indies has nothing to do with whether they have Nintendo appearances or not, just that they're still fairly obscure.

As for the joke about Sans, he'd at least remotely viable compared to Frisk. Frisk's entire point is that he's not supposed to fight. His canon personality is "hard pacifist". The creator went out and noted he would not agree to have him fight due to this. This doesn't apply for the other various characters(Chara and Sans included, though Sans from my understanding would rather not fight).

Anyway, I don't think Shantae has much of a chance. She's not a huge name in gaming. Her having a lot of Nintendo appearances means little, as it's how important she is to gaming that really matters. She's not super recognizable(at least compared to the only Indie, or that was one, is, being Steve?), though for the same reason I can't see Shovel Knight getting in either. Despite the huge splash he made at first, and even getting amiibo, he's still fairly obscure.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Character design mostly.

If I have a history with a character than that helps but thats usually secondary to the character design.

Moveset potential is there but not as important as the first 2 for me.

Thats the only reason I want Elma, Ashley, Viridi, K. Rool, or Captain Toad. I just like them. Never had any experience with them but I want them, anyway.

EDIT: This is also why I don't want certain characters. Minecraft is hella popular but Steve is uglier than dirt. Ugh.

Exactly this ^

Design/personality > moveset potential > historical significance

I've never actually played a DK game (minus some goofing around with the 64 one back in the day), but I love K. Rool as a concept and a character.
Never played Majora's Mask, but Skull Kids design is awesome. Ditto for Simon.

Sometimes it does stem from a love of the game/series (Ridley & Dark Samus), but really a cool character can come from anywhere.

Goes the other way too. Ashley, Incineroar, Steve... just character that do nothing for me conceptually, even if I like their games or don't actively dislike them per se.

 

[Noipoi]

What modes are y'all hoping to be revealed in the direct?

A single player mode of substance. My friends live far and I can't get them over as much as i'd like, i'd rather not just play Smash 4's classic mode over and over.

Seems like the Image Upload Problem's been fixed.

View attachment 156141​

Not my best work, but it's good for only an hours work. I've been waiting all day to post it.

Bless this image.

 

[anto_oberlin]

I’m hoping for Ashley

 

[Pyra]

What modes are y'all hoping to be revealed in the direct?

Adventure Mode
That is at the top of my most want to see list haha

(Besides demo date)

 

[Capybara Gaming]

While I agree with most of your points, I can think of one reason the dev team would consider Ken.

A common complaint about Ryu is the fact that there's SF inputs in Smash. "They don't work!" or "I'd play the character if it weren't for the inputs!" Maybe the devs could add Ken and remove the inputs. Ken having different properties than Ryu can be used to help balance the attacks since there's no inputs to strengthen said moves. This way, Ryu players that like the inputs can stick with Ryu and the people that don't like the commands can try Ken.

Just a thought I had. Not saying I support/Don't support, but I could see this being considered for a development team.

...you missed the entire point of the post I made.

Why pay the licensing fee for a character you're not going to dedicate your full attention to?

Characters don't just represent their franchise. Take a look at Smash 4's newcomers. Each one is designed with representing the mechanics of their game in mind, especially the third parties. Ryu isn't just there because he's iconic, he's there to also represent Street Fighter and everything it represents, and that's why he has the unique mechanic of special inputs. He's representing traditional fighting games. Considering Ken would play identical to him due to them representing Street Fighter II so much (even though Street Fighter V has a much more unique Ken), why should Nintendo bother to pay the fee for entry? Ken in the old days literally exists to be a clone of Ryu. Ken will get in either as a unique character or not at all, and considering the love is solely for Street Fighter II (and I guess Street Fighter IV where yes he was still a clone), Ken's chances of making it in are slim to none.

 

[KMDP]

Yeah, Crash honestly has a large gaming history(even if he didn't have a Nintendo appearance, he'd still have a reasonable chance). The problem with some Indies has nothing to do with whether they have Nintendo appearances or not, just that they're still fairly obscure.

As for the joke about Sans, he'd at least remotely viable compared to Frisk. Frisk's entire point is that he's not supposed to fight. His canon personality is "hard pacifist". The creator went out and noted he would not agree to have him fight due to this. This doesn't apply for the other various characters(Chara and Sans included, though Sans from my understanding would rather not fight).

Anyway, I don't think Shantae has much of a chance. She's not a huge name in gaming. Her having a lot of Nintendo appearances means little, as it's how important she is to gaming that really matters. She's not super recognizable(at least compared to the only Indie, or that was one, is, being Steve?), though for the same reason I can't see Shovel Knight getting in either. Despite the huge splash he made at first, and even getting amiibo, he's still fairly obscure.

All true. All Indies have a low chance, but Shantae has the least low chance.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Adventure, Classic, and maybe one new mode is what I would expect


The question is how long will the Direct be? If it's like 20 minutes, I don't see a lot happening. If 30-40 minutes, I'm expecting some info dump