Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

Jesus, with all these extremely recent users I already feel like a SmashBoards veteran...

Literally a two-month difference.

 

[Deleted member]

Jesus, with all these extremely recent users I already feel like a SmashBoards veteran...

I've joined two years ago and I still feel like a newbie.

 

[L9999]

'probably unpopular opinion here (atleast, to IC main currently watching), but I am glad Wobble & Infinite chaingrab are done. The concept of two character is interesting, but Wobble & infinite chaingrab, while difficult to do, I won't deny it, just wasn't enjoyable to watch and not fun for the opponent who was at the receving end of it (except if they were masochist or somethin', I don't know).

On that note, while Nana is unable to do anything if Popo grab someone or if he get grabbed may look to be quit extreme. As long as the Smash Tem give the necessary tools to them to compensate for their chaingrabs (Nana having a good IA, both of them have a good recovery, their moves being safe on shield aslong as two fight in unison,etc..), I feel like the IC could be at a solid mid tier placement, yeah, they won't be as good as in Brawl & Melee, but hey, better be decent than be Melee Kirby.

That's my two cents on it anyway, I ain't no pro IC players, but I really think they won't be that bad.

Melee characters aren't a fair comparison because that game was coded in 5 minutes. Also, Bowser and Zelda are WAY worse than Kirby.

 

[The Jim Jims]

'probably unpopular opinion here (atleast, to IC main currently watching), but I am glad Wobble & Infinite chaingrab are done.

Not unpopular lmao

 

[Danpal65]

This is an actual major concern of mine. I remember GameXPlain spoiling Roy and Ryu in the thumbnail of their video.

GameXplain have changed up how they do their thumbnails and stuff now. You at least won't see that sort of thing from them. People like Prosafia and randoms going on message boards and spamming datemines are who I'm more concerned about

 

[KMDP]

GameXplain have changed up how they do their thumbnails and stuff now. You at least won't see that sort of thing from them. People like Prosafia and randoms going on message boards and spamming datemines are who I'm more concerned about

You'd think people on Youtube/Internet News wouldn't say something like "K. Rool and Ashley datamined for Smash!" and go more for "New Characters datamined for Smash!" considering that's way more effective clickbait.

 

[Honest Slug]

Imagine the reaction if Boshi becomes playable and Geno gets KO'ed as an assist trophy.

On the topic of thumbnails, Prosafia is the bane of my existence. I had to purposefully avoid YouTube until I finished Splatoon 2 (Plus Octo Expansion) and Mario Odyssey because of his thumbnails.

 

[KMDP]

Imagine the reaction if Boshi becomes playable and Geno gets KO'ed as an assist trophy.

On the topic of thumbnails, Prosafia is the bane of my existence. I had to purposefully avoid YouTube until I finished Splatoon 2 (Plus Octo Expansion) and Mario Odyssey because of his thumbnails.

No Spoiler Etiquette, huh?

 

[Metal Shop X]

Melee characters aren't a fair comparison because that game was coded in 5 minutes. Also, Bowser and Zelda are WAY worse than Kirby.

Are you implying that Fox was coded in 5 minutes?

Because if yes, that would explain alot.

Joke aside, my point was, I don't think the IC will be trash tier, they be nerf, yes, but I think they be just decent. Smash Ultimate's engine may also help or hinder them, but it's way too soon to tell for now.

Not unpopular lmao

That's why I mentionned, "to IC mains atleast".

To elaborate a bit, Wobbling & Infinite Chaingrab was their sole reason for being so high on the Tier List in Melee & Brawl, without it, I see why alot of them are scared, but a character getting something removed doesn't make them by deafult bad. Fox was nerfed in Smash 4 and still ended up being a good character thanks to the engine of that game and some of the buff he got in the process.

Meta Knight also got the nerf hammer hard in Smash 4, and even when he was his lowest before the buff, he was still nowhere as bad as other bad Smash 4 characters, then, he got buff and bam, 'still a good character.

I don't say I be 100% right tho, for all I know, IC will be trash at release. But right now, I feel like it's just way too soon to tell for sure, alot can change in developpement, and once the game release, new techniques will be found that will make or break some characters.

So, whatever happen, I hope the IC mains will still have a fun character to play with. 'cuz I really don't want them to be bad, or any characters for that matter.

 

[Zinith]

Imagine the reaction if Boshi becomes playable and Geno gets KO'ed as an assist trophy.

God I'd probably be going into hiding from all the fans that want my head on a spike as the sole Boshi supporter around...

 

[Honest Slug]

God I'd probably be going into hiding from all the fans that want my head on a spike as the sole Boshi supporter around...

No, you'd be fine...

Maybe.

 

[papagenos]

Imagine the reaction if Boshi becomes playable and Geno gets KO'ed as an assist trophy.

On the topic of thumbnails, Prosafia is the bane of my existence. I had to purposefully avoid YouTube until I finished Splatoon 2 (Plus Octo Expansion) and Mario Odyssey because of his thumbnails.

i mean obviously I want geno... but mario rpg has so many cool characters if boshi or mallow or jonathan jones or jinx or the axem rangers for what ever bizarre reason were playable id be pumped for that too, geno is awesome and is clearly the character with the only chance here but like there are several mario rpg characters that are amazing and would have me psyched.

 

[KMDP]

Having not ever played an adequate amount of Super Mario RPG (I think I played it on Emulator for about an hour?) I don't have anything meaningful to say regarding the Original Characters from that game.

Geno is obviously the ringer out of those characters though, I can at least tell that much.

 

[DJ3DS]

Joke aside, my point was, I don't think the IC will be trash tier, they be nerf, yes, but I think they be just decent. Smash Ultimate's engine may also help or hinder them, but it's way too soon to tell for now.

That's why I mentionned, "to IC mains atleast".

To elaborate a bit, Wobbling & Infinite Chaingrab was their sole reason for being so high on the Tier List in Melee & Brawl, without it, I see why alot of them are scared, but a character getting something removed doesn't make them by deafult bad. Fox was nerfed in Smash 4 and still ended up being a good character thanks to the engine of that game and some of the buff he got in the process.

Meta Knight also got the nerf hammer hard in Smash 4, and even when he was his lowest before the buff, he was still nowhere as bad as other bad Smash 4 characters, then, he got buff and bam, 'still a good character.

Ex-Brawl ICs main here. Emphasis on ex now.

I don't personally take issue with no wobbling / chaingrabs. I agree as much as anyone they were unhealthy.

That said, even with them, ICs were never the best in the game. And the new mechanics of the game (regrab timer, footstool teching) would have been sufficient to prevent the infinites of theirs which plagued Brawl. Forcing motionless Nana when Popo grabs wasn't even necessary in my book.

This said, I'd stick with that change. What destroys them is Nana being unable to do anything now Popo is grabbed. This is a massive nerf. Back Throw Popo, forward smash Nana, they're separated and you can KO Nana to leave your opponent with a neutered character after a single grab.

They'd still be decent without these nerfs. With them I can't see them being good characters except in very specifically disjointed matchups. For example, the likes of Mac and Ganondorf probably don't really have any good answer to a wall of disjointed Blizzards.

Just my two cents why I'm probably not picking them up again. Had they been in Smash 4 I'd probably have stuck with them through the nerfs but as it is I have a Smash 4 main who doesn't look like complete rubbish so I'll just stick with him.

 

[Honest Slug]

In retrospect Super Mario RPG had so many fun characters that never saw the light of day again, when I was younger i always wished they appeared in more Mario games and wondered why they were only contained in Super Mario RPG.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Ex-Brawl ICs main here. Emphasis on ex now.

I don't personally take issue with no wobbling / chaingrabs. I agree as much as anyone they were unhealthy.

That said, even with them, ICs were never the best in the game. And the new mechanics of the game (regrab timer, footstool teching) would have been sufficient to prevent the infinites of theirs which plagued Brawl. Forcing motionless Nana when Popo grabs wasn't even necessary in my book.

This said, I'd stick with that change. What destroys them is Nana being unable to do anything now Popo is grabbed. This is a massive nerf. Back Throw Popo, forward smash Nana, they're separated and you can KO Nana to leave your opponent with a neutered character after a single grab.

They'd still be decent without these nerfs. With them I can't see them being good characters except in very specifically disjointed matchups. For example, the likes of Mac and Ganondorf probably don't really have any good answer to a wall of disjointed Blizzards.

Just my two cents why I'm probably not picking them up again. Had they been in Smash 4 I'd probably have stuck with them through the nerfs but as it is I have a Smash 4 main who doesn't look like complete rubbish so I'll just stick with him.

While I don't doubt that it's a big nerf, will this be really that easy to grab Popo? In Brawl & Melee, if you grab a character the moment they attack you, you had super armor to bypass the hit and still grab them. In Smash 4 & Ultimate however, super armor on grab have been removed, meaning you can't grab the opponent if they hit you with anything.

Had the fact that there is two character that can attack you the moment you try to grab them, and maybe Popo won't be that easy to grab? Or if he get grab easily, does Nana will run like, as soon as possible toward Popo to recover? Is her IA will be god tier to compensate? And speaking of their recover, does the two need to be really close to use it? Or will the Smash Team make them easier for them to recover? (as of now, their recovey, side-b & up-b seem to be much better, especially their side-b who seem to be really good duo or not)

Also, apparantly, take this with a grain of salt, but shield are apparantly worse in Ultimate, I don't know how exactly, but certain moves seem to be much safer on shield that one might expect. IC are quit good on the ground, right? With the nerf to sidestep & rolling, wouldn't that help the duo to hit peoples trying to dodge too much? Due to having two hitbox at once?

I don't know, again, there is alooooot to take into account when it come to what make a character great, good, decent, boring, or terrible, but I feel like some change can look worse on paper that they can be in real time, especially if the IC get other tools to compensate for their chaingrabs that make them work better with Ultimate engine. But I guess only time will tell.

 

[Jetsurge]

Y'know I have a question. Why are people expecting a newcomer so soon after that large info dump?

Because Robin and Lucina were revealed a month after e3 during Smash 4's prerelease.

 

[Deleted member]

It's 11:55 am France time now, and still no Smash Blog update.

Gonna be another thing we already know anyway.

 

[KingBroly]

It's 11:55 am France time now, and still no Smash Blog update.

Gonna be another thing we already know anyway.

Did they not update it for Marth in other countries?

 

[Staarih]

It's 11:55 am France time now, and still no Smash Blog update.

Gonna be another thing we already know anyway.

It's Marth. French site probably just late on the update.

Today's Fighter
#21: Marth
Marth is an exceptional swordfighter with a long reach. He'll do the most damage with attacks using the tip of his sword, so spacing is an important factor.#SmashBlog https://t.co/uR3l6Z4oWn

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) July 9, 2018

And for anyone who missed the "Today's memory" on the Japanese blog:

【Today's Memory 】21：Marth

Marth's first game was the 1990 Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light for the Famicom.
Speaking of Fire Emblem games, a new entry for the Switch, Fire Emblem: Three Houses will be released Q2 2019.#SmashBlog https://t.co/w0xsg508Kt

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) July 9, 2018

 

[EchoAegis]

It's Marth. French site probably just late on the update.

Today's Fighter
#21: Marth
Marth is an exceptional swordfighter with a long reach. He'll do the most damage with attacks using the tip of his sword, so spacing is an important factor.#SmashBlog https://t.co/uR3l6Z4oWn

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) July 9, 2018

And for anyone who missed the "Today's memory" on the Japanese blog:

【Today's Memory 】21：Marth

Marth's first game was the 1990 Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light for the Famicom.
Speaking of Fire Emblem games, a new entry for the Switch, Fire Emblem: Three Houses will be released Q2 2019.#SmashBlog https://t.co/w0xsg508Kt

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) July 9, 2018

Damn these blog updates are a freaking snore Like I'm not expecting a character but at least show something new like an item or stage

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Damn these blog updates are a freaking snore Like I'm not expecting a character but at least shown something new like an item or stage

Or at least for a titbit not shown in the initial trailers. They coulc have said if Young Link's fire arrows are cosmetic like in Melee or if it works like Toon Link's custom in Smash 4.

 

[EchoAegis]

Or at least for a titbit not shown in the initial trailers. They coulc have said if Young Link's fire arrows are cosmetic like in Melee or if it works like Toon Link's custom in Smash 4.

I would even take just funny pictures as well like remember the post about Luigi's nose

What is the point of showing videos that everyone could already watch since the first day?

 

[TeX]

I would really want Amaterasu in the game with this move set
Jab: Reflector technique 5 winds
Forward tilt: Rosary technique Spirit Armageddon
Down tilt: God technique Digging champ
Up tilt: Sub "Seven Strike glaive" attack (can be charged like in game)

Up smash: Secret brush technique Inferno tech
Forward smash: Brush technique Power slash (half/full charge breaks sheilds)
Down smash: Secret brush technique Thunderstorm tech

Neutral special: Sub "Devout Beads" attack
Up special: Brush technique Vine
Side special: Glaive technique 4 shears
Down special: Sub "Trinity Mirror" Reflector counter-attack

Neutral air: aerial bead swing
Up air: upwards glaive swing
Forward air: forward glaive swing
Back air: backwards glaive swing
Down air: downward aerial glaive swing

Grab: bite
Pummel: Reflector smack

Up throw: backflip kick into air
Forward throw: hard reflector smack
Back throw: God technique Fleetfoot backwards into throw
Down throw: Throws on to ground and they bounce upward

Dash attack: God technique hardhead

Up taunt: Howls upward like victory howl
Side taunt: crouches, growls and roars like battle intro
Down taunt: yawns, lays down and falls asleep

Victory screen: rising sun up above as howl with fanfare music
Victory screen 2: layed down asleep as issun bouncing around her

Home stage: Gaurdian tree of Kamiki village

Skins: Amaterasu, the 9 karmic transformers

Unique character attributes:
God technique holy falcon: spinning jump animation has hit box
All charges work like in original game
Wall cling has mark of kabegami
Wall jump causes ring of flowers and plants like in game
Run causes plants and changes color the faster you run
Water tablet: Can walk on water
Fire tablet: No flinch for fire
With every move and mechanic being like Okami''s in game style and working but adding a hit box on her up special.

 

[Deleted member]

Because Robin and Lucina were revealed a month after e3 during Smash 4's prerelease.

True, but after Smash 4's initial trailer at E3 2013, it took about a month after for them to confirm Olimar (a veteran), and the first new character wasn't shown until December. I don't think they'll hold off on new information until the game launches, but it's entirely possible we get nothing this month.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I would even take just funny pictures as well like remember the post about Luigi's nose

What is the point of showing videos that everyone could already watch since the first day?

And people complained when we got those too. I personally actually loved pic of the day, it guaranteed new pictures of the game at least.

 

[Cosmic77]

True, but after Smash 4's initial trailer at E3 2013, it took about a month after for them to confirm Olimar (a veteran), and the first new character wasn't shown until December. I don't think they'll hold off on new information until the game launches, but it's entirely possible we get nothing this month.

Keep in mind that this Smash game has a completely different timeframe. Smash 4 had a year and three months to spread out information. Ultimate has barely six months.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Jesus, with all these extremely recent users I already feel like a SmashBoards veteran...

If you're a veteran than I'm an old man.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

More "leaks."

Spoiler: "Leak" 1

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/423183785
Don't ask me how I know, he (Zero from Megaman) just is. Capcom brought him to Sakurai and he liked the idea of having Zero represent Capcom's crossover fighting games.

And yes, he's probably going to be overpowered. It's tradition.

Expect a joint announcement between Capcom and Sakurai around EVO time.

Here's some proof I know what I know

Capcom will announce that the next season of SFV DLC is the last. It will focus on Third Strike fighters. And they're currently in the early stages of production of SFVI.

MvCi support is also done. The game bombed and it has no future with Capcom. They're cutting their losses.

Zero in Smash would be hype. Hopefully MMZ Zero is an alt.
.

Soooo... about this one... and just to add some speculation to the fire too... *grabs the wood and drops it in the fire*

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/8wzt2d/street_fighter_vs_season_4_characters/

Vergeben is talking again... he says a bunch of stuff regarding Street Fighter V DLC, which is neat, but the BIG bombshell here is when he says:

"Oh, and I'll end with saying I heard that preliminary work on Street Fighter VI is underway, but is in the very early stages. SFV will remain a focus for Capcom until at least 2020/2021 still despite that from what I was told. "

He's also previously talked about Marvel VS Capcom Infinite getting... well... cut short.

Now the question is... did 4Chan leaker piggyback, lucky guess, or, to quote Beauty and the Beast, is there something there that wasn't there before?

OK, I've had some sleep, now I'm gonna expand with my thoughts on this one. Extended Edition if you will.

So to recap, a 4Chan dude shows up saying that Capcom came to Sakurai with Zero, and Sakurai liked Zero as a representative of Capcom's crossover fighters, and that an announcement may come "around EVO time".

His "proof" is that apparently the next batch of Street Fighter V DLC is the last, and focuses on "Third Strike". He also claims that they are in the early stages of production on Street Fighter VI.

And also says Marvel vs Capcom Infinite is basically toast.

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/423183785

That's all well and good, about as good as any other 4Chan leak really... but then, JUST YESTERDAY, Vergeben returns, and he ALSO says that he's heard about early production on Street Fighter VI. Specifically he says "Oh, and I'll end with saying I heard that preliminary work on Street Fighter VI is underway, but is in the very early stages. SFV will remain a focus for Capcom until at least 2020/2021 still despite that from what I was told."

Which is pretty much the same thing.

He also claims the identity of the Street Fighter V DLC characters; Crimson Viper, Oro, Necro, Q, Sodom, and Makoto.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/8wzt2d/street_fighter_vs_season_4_characters/


Now.... the Street Fighter V DLC characters are not "Third Strike" exclusively, but with 4 out of 6 of them being from some kind of Street Fighter III, one can see where the connection might be made. Combine that with the early work on SF6 and... we... MIGHT have something here?

The weird part is, the 4Chan guy came first. Vergeben didn't come until just yesterday.

So... the way I see it. either;

1. There's a missing part of the story and I've just made myself look like an idiot
2. These people happened to guess the same exact thing regarding a Street Fighter 6.
3. These people are speaking to the same people/people with the same knowledge, therefore implying some degree of truth.

If this IS true, then a revelation can be made; Capcom came to Sakurai with Zero, not the other way around as might be expected. Also it would mean that Capcom has THREE fighters in Smash, which might come to some as unexpected.

Is Zero coming to Smash? Guess we'll find out.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I know it's nowhere near likely but man now I want Daroach.

I did mention Daroach on my Assist Trophy predictions list. That's probably his best chance, if not a mere trophy cameo.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Here's an idea, given how character that have been featured on the blog have links on their character page to every blog post about them, it seems like they may reveal more info on them outside of character videos down the line.

So at 3 a week we'd have to wait... I haven't been keeping track, how many is that now?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Zero in Smash? That'd be cool buuuuut I want to see some MMZ representation instead of MMX Zero

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Imagine the reaction if Boshi becomes playable and Geno gets KO'ed as an assist trophy.

On the topic of thumbnails, Prosafia is the bane of my existence. I had to purposefully avoid YouTube until I finished Splatoon 2 (Plus Octo Expansion) and Mario Odyssey because of his thumbnails.

I'd be torn. On one hand, it'd be neat to see Boshi get some use, but on the other I'd severely question the Squeenix deal being wasted on doing an Echo fighter over the obvious choice.

 

[DJ3DS]

While I don't doubt that it's a big nerf, will this be really that easy to grab Popo? In Brawl & Melee, if you grab a character the moment they attack you, you had super armor to bypass the hit and still grab them. In Smash 4 & Ultimate however, super armor on grab have been removed, meaning you can't grab the opponent if they hit you with anything.

Had the fact that there is two character that can attack you the moment you try to grab them, and maybe Popo won't be that easy to grab? Or if he get grab easily, does Nana will run like, as soon as possible toward Popo to recover? Is her IA will be god tier to compensate? And speaking of their recover, does the two need to be really close to use it? Or will the Smash Team make them easier for them to recover? (as of now, their recovey, side-b & up-b seem to be much better, especially their side-b who seem to be really good duo or not)

Also, apparantly, take this with a grain of salt, but shield are apparantly worse in Ultimate, I don't know how exactly, but certain moves seem to be much safer on shield that one might expect. IC are quit good on the ground, right? With the nerf to sidestep & rolling, wouldn't that help the duo to hit peoples trying to dodge too much? Due to having two hitbox at once?

I don't know, again, there is alooooot to take into account when it come to what make a character great, good, decent, boring, or terrible, but I feel like some change can look worse on paper that they can be in real time, especially if the IC get other tools to compensate for their chaingrabs that make them work better with Ultimate engine. But I guess only time will tell.

There being two characters doesn't make a difference unless they're desynced, which is harder to do now.

I don't know if anyone can tell you the specific details of Nana's AI but put simply, it's never really been that good when separated. Her main objective when separated was always been to get back to Popo and players will find an appropriate way to exploit it for an easy kill.

The other stuff you're talking about is general mechanical changes that affect every character. Until proven otherwise I'd assume this doesn't help ICs any more than any other character.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Yeah I think a more low-key, or somewhat more out there character will be revealed next. King K Rool/Geno/Simon Belmont is what you drop as like the last reveal.

What's everyone thinking for the next reveal?

K.Rool or Dovahkiin so I can celebrate

Honestly, I'd like to see Ashley or Simon just because the next character will be #66, and there are way too many 666 jokes possible then.

To kill time, let's take the time and express what small details we appreciate in particular. I, for one, love how they actually took Pichu and made it look like a legitimate threat in its trailer, despite its status as the resident joke character.

Jiggles actually has one of my favorites where she kicks Ness into a Launch Star and then hits him with Rest right away. It looks like an awesome combo I'll never be able to do.
Dedede also has a cool one where he smacks a Gordo at Lucina, and then inhales it on rebound and spits it back to her.

And people complained when we got those too. I personally actually loved pic of the day, it guaranteed new pictures of the game at least.

POTD was awesome! Even when they revealed something we already new, we got new pictures of it.

 

[Deleted member]

And people complained when we got those too. I personally actually loved pic of the day, it guaranteed new pictures of the game at least.

Come next game people will be like "those fighter videos were great! This [INSERT HOW INFORMATION IS REVEALED/RECAPPED HERE] is terrible!"

If this IS true, then a revelation can be made; Capcom came to Sakurai with Zero, not the other way around as might be expected. Also it would mean that Capcom has THREE fighters in Smash, which might come to some as unexpected.

Is Zero coming to Smash? Guess we'll find out.

If we have to have a 3rd Capcom character, I'd much rather have Phoenix Wright, but I also reeeeeeeeally don't care about the Mega Man franchise at all and Zero's probably more popular. He's also a way better character that Wright was in UMvC3, and if Zero was chosen to "rep crossover fighters" he'd be a better choice.

 

[KMDP]

K.Rool or Dovahkiin so I can celebrate

Honestly, I'd like to see Ashley or Simon just because the next character will be #66, and there are way too many 666 jokes possible then.

the next character will be #66

The next character will be Darth Vader.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Come next game people will be like "those fighter videos were great! This [INSERT HOW INFORMATION IS REVEALED/RECAPPED HERE] is terrible!"


If we have to have a 3rd Capcom character, I'd much rather have Phoenix Wright, but I also reeeeeeeeally don't care about the Mega Man franchise at all and Zero's probably more popular. He's also a way better character that Wright was in UMvC3, and if Zero was chosen to "rep crossover fighters" he'd be a better choice.

Well Zero was always top tier in Capcom VS Whatever games, not just UMVC3

 

[Deleted member]

Well Zero was always top tier in Capcom VS Whatever games, not just UMVC3

Not true, he was pretty terrible in this one

Like c'mon, he's the only character who lost the Raisin Bran Sun matchup, and Raisin Bran Sun is already trash tier!

 

[Metal Shop X]

There being two characters doesn't make a difference unless they're desynced, which is harder to do now.

I don't know if anyone can tell you the specific details of Nana's AI but put simply, it's never really been that good when separated. Her main objective when separated was always been to get back to Popo and players will find an appropriate way to exploit it for an easy kill.

The other stuff you're talking about is general mechanical changes that affect every character. Until proven otherwise I'd assume this doesn't help ICs any more than any other character.

Hmm....

I don't know, you have good points, but I can't help but think that there will be somethin' about IC that will make them decent, new engine or/and tweak to their moves, tho in any case, they will definitly feel like different character, which I can see alienate old fan, which must suck.

In any case, I think I stop here before I say stupid or somethin'. I'm a optimistic kind of guy, I like giving the benefit of the doubt before calling something terrible, and I do ton of research around games I love/have interest in, so while I am not a competitive player, there is still some cool stuff I know about Smash in general. But I don't main any character in particular, I like varying my playstyle, so I won't act like I know better than someone maining said character in a past title.

On those words, I hope you have a great day sir.