Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

But will that be it, or will they continue to give him many birds

Konami doesn't like getting into AAA games, they'll probably off him another with Metal Gear pachinko or something. Maybe a gacha mobile app?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Konami doesn't like getting into AAA games, they'll probably off him another with Metal Gear pachinko or something. Maybe a gacha mobile app?

A Metal Gear gatcha app...that doesn’t sound like an app everyone will love

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

If you could guarantee the inclusion of one character on the roster who would it be?

Rules:

1. Must be 1st Party.

2. Cannot already exist as an Assist Trophy.

3. Have fun, and be civil with others.

Undoubtedly it would be Bandanna Dee for me. He's the character i've wanted most since before smash 4 came out. I even voted for him in the Ballot!

 

[Makai Wars]

Porky is important for both, Earthbound and Mother 3, is the connection between both stories, the story that everyone already knows, and the story that has only been told in japan.
Also, I want to punch that fat kid over and over for the things that he did to Lucas.

I'd like Porky but I think Giygas as a Mewtwo Echo fighter is a bit more realistic. I'd love either or both though.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

We need more DS reps.

Pls add Chorus Kids and Ashley.

You can also throw Mona in that pile.

There's more than just them though, Captain Video is enough of an icon to have been the first ever indie representation in Smash in any form and Shantae is, as far as I know, the first major indie success on a console, even if her first game wasn't that successful.

Not to mention that Quote's game was successful enough that it transcended being freeware and keeps being rereleased on consoles to this day.
Also, it's kinda funny to think that a scantily-clad genie is more synonymous with Nintendo than a shovel-wielding knight that plays like Link and Scrooge McDuck.

Spoiler: So he popped into my mind

Honestly not even a ridiculous choice.

My friend! Sadly, I don't think much people other than me voted for him on the ballot. He'd be lucky to even make it as a trophy at all, let alone as an AT or playable.

If you could guarantee the inclusion of one character on the roster who would it be?

Rules:

1. Must be 1st Party.

2. Cannot already exist as an Assist Trophy.

3. Have fun, and be civil with others.

Cranky Kong. Gotta respect elders, you know.

 

[Zeox]

I'd like Porky but I think Giygas as a Mewtwo Echo fighter is a bit more realistic. I'd love either or both though.

Why would Giegue be an Echo of Mewtwo? besides looks they have nothing in common... unless they do like captain falcon and Ganondorf.
If they add Giegue, and believe me, is totally possible, since Mother 1 got localized in 2015, same year as the roster was decided, he should have his own moveset.

 

[Makai Wars]

Why would Giegue be an Echo of Mewtwo? besides looks they have nothing in common... unless they do like captain falcon and Ganondorf.
If they add Giegue, and believe me, is totally possible, since Mother 1 got localized in 2015, same year as the roster was decided, he should have his own moveset.

I think both are....really unlikely honestly, Porky doesn't have the same cult following K. Rool has for example and I don't think Mother 1 getting localized would influence Sakurai who's all the way in Japan. I'd love both, or either, I just think Gigyas as a Mewtwo echo is the path of least resistance and thus most likely since at this point it's either that or nothing.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Two more "leaks"

I've made an edit to my criteria:
I'm removing the criteria of "must present a full roster and pass it off as fact." Some rosters seem like wishlists and it's impossible to discern without additional information. Leaks that have attempted to do this will be grandfathered in and counted. The other criteria still stand.

Anyways,

Spoiler: "Leak"

Spoiler: "Leak" 2

Regular stuff to be honest.

 

[Will]

Why would Giegue be an Echo of Mewtwo? besides looks they have nothing in common.

They have the looks.

 

[Ignoritus]

People do realize that our current echos are all characters that are literally based off of the character they are echoing, correct? As in a literal clone, a character who impersonated their original, and a character who as I recall shared most of a model with their original in the bulk of their appearances. I really, really think people are going overboard by trying to predict echoes based on characters who have no relationship with the original character beyond possibly being able to justify stealing their moveset.

 

[GunBlaze]

People do realize that our current echos are all characters that are literally based off of the character they are echoing, correct? As in a literal clone, a character who impersonated their original, and a character who as I recall shared most of a model with their original in the bulk of their appearances. I really, really think people are going overboard by trying to predict echoes based on characters who have no relationship with the original character beyond possibly being able to justify stealing their moveset.

They pullin' a melee 'Dorf

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I hate to say it, but he's right.

>>>>>>>>

Refer to the list I posted above.

The Megaman, Metal Gear, and Bayonetta series are chump change compared to Pac-Man, Street Fighter, Sonic, and Final Fantasy. It doesn't mean they don't have a place in Smash Bros., but if you look at the numbers, they don't lie.

I think a factor you have to take into account is that Cloud, unlike Pac-Man and Sonic for their respective franchises, isn't in pretty much everything Final Fantasy related and whilst 7 is definitively the most popular and promoted Final Fantasy game, there are several other successful Final Fantasy games that don't feature him. Just something to take note.

 

[Will]

People do realize that our current echos are all characters that are literally based off of the character they are echoing, correct? As in a literal clone, a character who impersonated their original, and a character who as I recall shared most of a model with their original in the bulk of their appearances. I really, really think people are going overboard by trying to predict echoes based on characters who have no relationship with the original character beyond possibly being able to justify stealing their moveset.

I agree that people actively seeking clones are being desperate for people they want in the game, which does the characters themselves an injustice, but not all clones were like that, just look at Ganondorf. The only thing Giygas and Mewtwo have going for each other is looking similar, and his Mother 1 appearance is more likely to show up than his nightmare fuel form from Mother 2. At best, a semi-clone. At worst, an Echo with a different final smash. Pick one.

 

[Rockaphin]

Why would Giegue be an Echo of Mewtwo? besides looks they have nothing in common...

Final Form Frieza will be an Echo Fighter of Mewtwo.

 

[Makai Wars]

People do realize that our current echos are all characters that are literally based off of the character they are echoing, correct? As in a literal clone, a character who impersonated their original, and a character who as I recall shared most of a model with their original in the bulk of their appearances. I really, really think people are going overboard by trying to predict echoes based on characters who have no relationship with the original character beyond possibly being able to justify stealing their moveset.

Ganondorf lol

I don't think cross series echoes should be a general rule, but Gigyas and Mewtwo share a number of similarities like same general lanky, catlike body type, same types of psychic abilities, and could easily share the same personality, meaning they'd only need slightly different animations between them. It's a stretch which is why I consider it unlikely, but a fun idea at the end of the day.

 

[Will]

I remember that long post about team battles and unique matchups.

When is the clone combo coming?

 

[Zeox]

They have the looks.

Why would Giegue be an Echo of Mewtwo? besides looks they have nothing in common.

That's what I said.

 

[Ignoritus]

Ganondorf lol

just look at Ganondorf.

They pullin' a melee 'Dorf

Ganondorf is not an echo, he's a clone. They've drawn a very clear line between the two with even Dr. Mario being considered not an echo.

 

[Deleted member]

They have the looks.

Looks can be deceiving.
Mewtwo and Giegue are way too different to be clones.

 

[Cosmic77]

I hate how we have this impulsive need to look for clones, even in popular characters.

Before E3, you would've been an outcast for suggesting Impa, Dixie, or Shadow being full clones. Now it feels the general idea has evolved into, "Whatever. This character has a similar build to someone else on the roster, so if being a clone makes them more likely, I'll support the idea."

 

[dezeray112]

If you could guarantee the inclusion of one character on the roster who would it be?

Rules:

1. Must be 1st Party.

2. Cannot already exist as an Assist Trophy.

3. Have fun, and be civil with others.

Hmm......I'm going to go retro and say Ayumi Tachibana.

 

[Deleted member]

I hate how we have this impulsive need to look for clones, even in popular characters.

Before E3, you would've been an outcast for suggesting Impa, Dixie, or Shadow being full clones. Now it feels the general idea has evolved into, "Whatever. This character has a similar build to someone else on the roster, so if being a clone makes them more likely, I'll support the idea."

Lets be honest, Sakurai is a genius for making echo fighters because now everyone loves clones and would be happy with newcomers that have cloned moves.
I love clones already, so I love echo fighters.

 

[SonicMario]

If we get a MOTHER series echo fighter at all it'd likely be of Ninten off Ness. I know Ganondorf happened in terms of regular clones, but rushed development of Melee aside, I just doubt we get any echoes of characters from an entirely different series between the character it's based on and the character that is echoing off that character.

I wouldn't mind that Giygas/Mewtwo one if it is possible though.

 

[Nani?]

I hate how we have this impulsive need to look for clones, even in popular characters.

Before E3, you would've been an outcast for suggesting Impa, Dixie, or Shadow being full clones. Now it feels the general idea has evolved into, "Whatever. This character has a similar build to someone else on the roster, so if being a clone makes them more likely, I'll support the idea."

That's exactly what I was gonna say. Sakurai said, "Don't expect as many newcomers," not, "Every newcomer is a clone."

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I'd like Porky but I think Giygas as a Mewtwo Echo fighter is a bit more realistic. I'd love either or both though.

That would be pretty cool if that actually happens, but I'm not sure if that's gonna work lol

 

[splat]

I hate how we have this impulsive need to look for clones, even in popular characters.

Before E3, you would've been an outcast for suggesting Impa, Dixie, or Shadow being full clones. Now it feels the general idea has evolved into, "Whatever. This character has a similar build to someone else on the roster, so if being a clone makes them more likely, I'll support the idea."

I feel like it's more or less the only thing we can talk about.

I mean, all veterans are there, Sakurai stated we shouldn't expect too many newcomers and clones just got an official name. While it may also be just a marketing thing they'd rebrand clones, it also feels like they're getting more limelight this game. The entire direct was framed in such a way speculation for orginal newcomers or veterans isn't really possible - talking about clones feels what might be 'left' of topics.

 

[Fenriraga]

Two more "leaks"

I've made an edit to my criteria:
I'm removing the criteria of "must present a full roster and pass it off as fact." Some rosters seem like wishlists and it's impossible to discern without additional information. Leaks that have attempted to do this will be grandfathered in and counted. The other criteria still stand.

Anyways,

Spoiler: "Leak"

Spoiler: "Leak" 2

Regular stuff to be honest.

Nightmare and Kefka? You can't be serious. Both would be awesome, sure, but Sakurai always makes it a point that a series needs it's main PROTAGONIST first before going down the rest of the list. Nightmare could sort of be argued as one, but he's still primarily an antagonist at the end of the day, and considering Sakurai seems to be treating 7 as its own separate universe rather than representing Final Fantasy as a whole, we would need Terra before Kefka.

What a joke. Apparently this person didn't get the memo that the "Heroes and Villains" theme is debunked. :V

 

[vaanrose]

Every time people suggest Gigyas and Funky Kong as potential echoes, an angel loses his wings.

All the clones have been popular enough to warrant inclusion on their own, and even Dark Pit has the fact that he was based off a Brawl Pit alt to explain the decision to put him in as Pit's alt-that-was-upgraded. Leave all the random D-tier characters that "fit" to the modders (sorry, Funky, I love ya, but you've got to lose that wifebeater, man, it's not a good look).

 

[Cosmic77]

Lets be honest, Sakurai is a genius for making echo fighters because now everyone loves clones and would be happy with newcomers that have cloned moves.
I love clones already, so I love echo fighters.

To be honest, the only thing that's changed is that true clones have an official name now. If Sakurai's goal was to bring back every character, I feel like a name change for Lucina and Dark Pit was needed. It might stop people from complaining about true clones, but I can't imagine why anyone would be actively supporting their character to get in Smash as an Echo Fighter. I mean, I doubt Daisy supporters jumped for joy when they realized Sakurai got on board with the "Daisy would just be a Peach clone" bandwagon.

Echo Fighters are the exact definition of a bittersweet victory. You got the character you wanted in Smash, but they're nothing like you envisioned them.

 

[blackghost]

considering Sakurai seems to be treating 7 as its own separate universe rather than representing Final Fantasy as a whole, we would need Terra before Kefka.
. :V

this is has been proven false. Sakurai (rightly) said cloud represents ALL final fantasy.

Sakurai: Final Fantasy (FF below) is one of the few uniquely Japanese game series revered by players around the world. I think fans across the globe have hoped a character from one of those series would appear in Smash, so it was only a matter of time. At the same time, there are only so many big-name titles we can work with at this point—mainly because we’ve covered most of those bases. Aside from the major globally-recognized franchises already featured in Smash, there really aren’t that many left.

—That’s true. No other franchises come to mind.

Sakurai: Exactly. And within the FF franchise, Cloud is without question the most popular choice. A number of people fixate on the fact his original game was never released on a Nintendo console, but if we were to limit our choices to characters who appeared on a Nintendo console, we’d end up with Bartz from FFV or the Onion Knight from FFIII—how would that work? Maybe they could change jobs or something… Actually, that would be kind of interesting (laughs).

(Everyone laughs)

Sakurai: At the same time, I think it’s only natural to prioritize the character who enjoys worldwide popularity. I might have had misgivings if Cloud had never appeared on a Nintendo console in any form, though.

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

 

[Deleted member]

To be honest, the only thing that's changed is that true clones have an official name now. If Sakurai's goal was to bring back every character, I feel like a name change for Lucina and Dark Pit was needed. It might stop people from complaining about true clones, but I can't imagine why anyone would be actively supporting their character to get in Smash as an Echo Fighter. I mean, I doubt Daisy supporters jumped for joy when they realized Sakurai got on board with the "Daisy would just be a Peach clone" bandwagon.

Echo Fighters are the exact definition of a bittersweet victory. You got the character you wanted in Smash, but they're nothing like you envisioned them.

Ah, but a new name for clones is cool.

Plus I think 96% of Daisy fans jumped really high in joy and did not care one bit.

Apologies for the short response Cosmic!

 

[TMNTSSB4]

To be honest, the only thing that's changed is that true clones have an official name now. If Sakurai's goal was to bring back every character, I feel like a name change for Lucina and Dark Pit was needed. It might stop people from complaining about true clones, but I can't imagine why anyone would be actively supporting their character to get in Smash as an Echo Fighter. I mean, I doubt Daisy supporters jumped for joy when they realized Sakurai got on board with the "Daisy would just be a Peach clone" bandwagon.

Echo Fighters are the exact definition of a bittersweet victory. You got the character you wanted in Smash, but they're nothing like you envisioned them.

Daisy fans seemed to be easily satisfied with her being a Peach echo

 

[EchoAegis]

Ah, but a new name for clones is cool.

Plus I think 96% of Daisy fans jumped really high in joy and did not care one bit.

Apologies for the short response Cosmic!

100% agree with you, especially about the Daisy thing. If any of my most wanted newcomers is an echo fighter I wouldn't give to ****s I would just be jumping in joy seeing them as a playable character.

 

[vaanrose]

Nightmare and Kefka? You can't be serious. Both would be awesome, sure, but Sakurai always makes it a point that a series needs it's main PROTAGONIST first before going down the rest of the list. Nightmare could sort of be argued as one, but he's still primarily an antagonist at the end of the day, and considering Sakurai seems to be treating 7 as its own separate universe rather than representing Final Fantasy as a whole, we would need Terra before Kefka.

What a joke. Apparently this person didn't get the memo that the "Heroes and Villains" theme is debunked. :V

Nah, this interpretation of Sakurai is quite flawed. Just consider the fact that he was thinking of including Heihachi, who has never been the protagonist of Tekken. Before Tekken 7 he was lucky to even make the box cover.

The fact that basically every franchise in Smash has begun with its protagonist is because in almost every case, the protagonist is the most important/most popular character. Ryu is actually an anomaly in the fighting game world, usually no one cares at all about the actual protagonist, because they're by design generally one of the more boring characters on the roster. I couldn't even tell you who the actual protagonist of Soul Calibur even is, but I know Nightmare. Everybody knows Nightmare.

 

[PeridotGX]

Two m

Spoiler: "Leak" 2

Regular stuff to be honest.

Who could Incineroar Echo?

 

[Delzethin]

To be honest, the only thing that's changed is that true clones have an official name now. If Sakurai's goal was to bring back every character, I feel like a name change for Lucina and Dark Pit was needed. It might stop people from complaining about true clones, but I can't imagine why anyone would be actively supporting their character to get in Smash as an Echo Fighter. I mean, I doubt Daisy supporters jumped for joy when they realized Sakurai got on board with the "Daisy would just be a Peach clone" bandwagon.

Echo Fighters are the exact definition of a bittersweet victory. You got the character you wanted in Smash, but they're nothing like you envisioned them.

In some cases, I'd imagine the support is coming from people who think their character wouldn't have a chance otherwise and would still be okay with them being a clone.

I'd imagine the Dark Samus crowd is something like this right now. Highly unlikely to be chosen as a standalone newcomer due to lack of relevance (And Prime 4 will take place after the point where she canonically dies!), but now she might have a shot as a clone of Samus with a few tweaks to the moveset to better suit her (Phazon-based specials that deal less knockback but inflict a damage-over-time status effect?).

 

[Makai Wars]

Who could Incineroar Echo?

Ffffffffaaaalllcon? Maybe?
EDIT: Maybe he could be like...A ganon echo...or something. I cant think of anything good.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

1st party character: King K. Rool(last one that fits all the categories at this time)

For the other 3 ideals;

New Character: Brian
Promotion: Takamaru
Roadblocked: Isabelle(I can't imagine her actually making sense as a fighter due to her extreme pacifism as well as being someone who I wouldn't ever want to hurt. Very few characters are like that for me).

Runner-ups for roadblocked are Banjo-Kazooie(way more important Microsoft options, including at least 2 far more relevant Rare characters at this point), and Captain Toad(if they just shoehorn a 'the backpack is lighter", then no thanks. It's a lazy copout answer to his most important defining feature. Give him something that actually replaces the jump in a meaningful manner. Though I can't really see that working well as unique animations for just a simple jump are questionably hard to implement. I'd prefer the main Toad instead, as he's still a more important character in the Super Mario series. Captain Toad is a secondary character and while cool, isn't the main Toad nor a proper representation of him. They're completely different characters just sharing the same species).

 

[Deleted member]

Who could Incineroar Echo?

No one.
Incineroar does not deserve to be echoed at all.

 

[Hidan]

A bit late on this...

Add: Spyro
Promote: King K. Rool (From Trophy to Playable)
Rosterblock: Rabbids

If you could guarantee the inclusion of one character on the roster who would it be?

Rules:

1. Must be 1st Party.

2. Cannot already exist as an Assist Trophy.

3. Have fun, and be civil with others.

Looking at my above guess, it should be obvious, but King K. Rool.