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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Zeox Zeox Please add some text to that image post.

Also, I would love Rabbids. My thought is the best way to do it is give them costumes with the hairstyle/head gear from Mario x Rabbids, not unlike Pikachu and Jigglpuff. This would work great. Taking a selfie should be a taunt as is, but otherwise, keep the models the same.

I like 'em more than Rayman as an option, but he'd be cool too. They're pretty much separate franchises now anyway. Pretty much a Wario and Mario thing(unlike Yoshi, who barely branched off with literally... one game not focused on Mario himself really. Yoshi's Story is the breakout game. Well, there's Yoshi's Cookie too, but I meant among the platformers).
 

MopedOfJustice

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If there is a story mode, I hope the final cinematic is all the characters fighting together to destroy the final boss like in
Kirby Star allies
Also, I hope that, if there is a final boss, is not tabuu or master core but something new and more spooky.
Honestly it suffered from what a lot of games do where it did nothing to meaningfully showcase all the characters, it just sort of tossed them at him. I think a more fleshed-out version of what happened in SSE is more worthwhile, because it has a bunch of different characters each playing a distinct role rather than everyone just dogpiling like the mass of IPs they are.
Admittedly, most of the cast in SSE ended up being kind of worthless, and Kirby and friends did too much relative to some of the others, but the general idea that they were going for was a good one.
Having more villains might actually make it easier to give everyone something useful to do.
 

osby

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If there is a story mode, I hope the final cinematic is all the characters fighting together to destroy the final boss like in
Kirby Star allies
Also, I hope that, if there is a final boss, is not tabuu or master core but something new and more spooky.
We've yet to see Smash repeat final bosses, I don't think it'll happen this time.
 

Zeox

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Alright alright, next stupid idea, hear me out... what if they make a story mode but this time... is a mix of styles? a part of the game is a platform game, but it also have racing levels, rpg style levels, puzzle levels, etc?
 
D

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Honestly it suffered from what a lot of games do where it did nothing to meaningfully showcase all the characters, it just sort of tossed them at him. I think a more fleshed-out version of what happened in SSE is more worthwhile, because it has a bunch of different characters each playing a distinct role rather than everyone just dogpiling like the mass of IPs they are.
Admittedly, most of the cast in SSE ended up being kind of worthless, and Kirby and friends did too much relative to some of the others, but the general idea that they were going for was a good one.
Having more villains might actually make it easier to give everyone something useful to do.
I think everyone contributed, actually. I mean you want more than one in a team. The villains did not do that much obviously, but ehhh they all had a goal: To save the universe. Thy all defeated the army and weakened the Subspace Army which then led to the battle against Tabuu.
 

osby

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Is there any characters that you guys think might get Chrom’ed?
I think Fire Emblem characters in general will have a hard time getting into the roster if just for this reason alone.

Other than that... I imagine it might be a reason for Dixie Kong to be reject from a playable position.
 

Hinata

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Ugh, 3 More Weeks!

God, I remember back when the reveal happened and E3 was over three months away. Feels like just yesterday, and yet here we are, a mere three weeks away.
 

Cosmic77

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Is there any characters that you guys think might get Chrom’ed?
I think there's a genuine chance of K. Rool getting "Chrom-ed" on the base roster in favor of Dixie. I know the former is far more popular, but Dixie has her fair share of support as well. Tie that in with her relevancy and I think she'd have fewer hurdles than K. Rool.
 

Chandeelure

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Is there any characters that you guys think might get Chrom’ed?
Sometimes I think about Bandana Dee.

He can have too many roles that aren't playable.

Assist Trophy, Background character in a new Kirby stage, a part of one of Dedede's attacks, Dedede's Victory Animation and Sakurai's personal favorite... literally nothing like in Smash 3DS/Wii U!
 
D

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Oh gosh, it IS only 3 weeks, isn't it? Man, time flies.

I'm not too concerned about who makes it into Smash. I like speculating, but my most wanted is already in (Inklings) so as long as Wario and Luigi stay, which I'm about 99% sure they will, I'm good with whatevs. I honestly don't know what to expect from this E3; I feel like anything could happen at this point, lol. Here's hoping for good things. :)
 

MopedOfJustice

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I think everyone contributed, actually. I mean you want more than one in a team. The villains did not do that much obviously, but ehhh they all had a goal: To save the universe. Thy all defeated the army and weakened the Subspace Army which then led to the battle against Tabuu.
Even being incredibly generous, these were all completely worthless characters:
:snake::ivysaur::olimar::luigi2:(Luigi was just a warm body for Dedede's badges)
:popo: were superfluous, :lucario: only mattered for finding Snake, who was himself a dead-end, :gw: never had and specific value, just a gag that made more sense with him but could have been replaced by Primids.
:marth: was just a spectator character that enabled anime swordsmen to play off each other.
:yoshi2: was never more than a sidekick. :squirtle: was just because Trainer had to have something.
Obviously :ike: was just a deus ex machina that didn't have a further function.
And then of, of course, three characters were added too late to even appear.

The fact that this person or that killed some Primids doesn't matter, there was clearly a functionally infinite amount and ambiently "weakening the army" could be done by any warm body.
 

AustarusIV

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Ugh, 3 More Weeks!

I remember thinking back then on Robin's reveal that Gematsu was dead and that we wouldn't have anymore notorious leaks plaguing speculation discussion.... fun times.
 

BluePikmin11

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I figured I'd drop in with my new roster prediction before E3 rolls around.


The above list includes all characters I considered. The farthest left represents the most likely to be in the game, and the farthest right represents the least.

The characters are color coded to represent how confident I am in them.

Blue is confirmed.
Green is unsurprising.
Yellow is moderately surprising.
Red is very surprising.
Pink is extremely surprising.

Roster A assumes that the recent leak about Simon, Ridley, and Ice Climbers is false.
Base Roster Total: 73
DLC Roster Total: 78
Unique Newcomers: 12
Base Third Party Newcomers: 2
Overall Third Party Newcomers: 3
Clone Newcomers: 1
Returning Cut Characters: 2
Total Cuts: 0

Captain Toad: The newcomer I am most confident in, Captain Toad has appeared in every mainline Mario title since Super Mario Galaxy, and has now gotten his own spinoff game for Wii U, 3DS, and Switch. The character would be the first small-bodied heavy-weight and would rely on a good ground game and projectiles, but would have a lackluster recovery.

Dixie and Cranky Kong: This may be the most bold of my additions, but it can be substituted for the safer choice of solo Dixie Kong if that's preferred. However, I am going to make the prediction that Sakurai will take note of the demand for Dixie Kong and decide to add her with the mechanic he considered for Diddy and Dixie in Brawl. I am assuming that this mechanic is similar to the Ice Climbers, but with the two characters using joint attacks, reminiscent of the Ice Climbers' up special. For example, Dixie would hold Cranky for their up special as she twirls her hair, and Cranky would flail around, hitting opponents beneath them. The two characters would act as a single fighter with a shared percentage bar, but they could feasibly have a mechanic where one can be KO'd while the other lives on, but without the ability to do certain attacks. This would represent the team-up mechanics of the Donkey Kong series, and would offer a unique experience to players.

Sheriff: The oldest video game character of Nintendo, Sheriff would be the embodiment of Nintendo's early arcade roots. Having his trusty pistol, his horse, his rope, and other Western gear to battle, Sheriff would be a character that attacks from a distance. His gimmick would be his ability to angle his entire kit in eight directions, similarly to Fox and Falco's up-special. This hearkens back to his home game, which allow him to move and aim in eight directions simultaneously. Sheriff fulfills the historical/legacy character quota that Sakurai seems to have (Mr. Game and Watch, R.O.B., Duck Hunt) and brings the first character of Shigeru Miyamoto into the esteemed world of Smash Bros. to duel with his descendants.

Ice Climbers: The Ice Climbers return as they were in previous games. I believe that they are the single most likely fighter to make it in who we haven't had explicitly confirmed.

Takamaru: After being considered since Melee, Takamaru finally reveals himself to the Smash Bros. crew, bringing all his abilities with him: Iaijutsu techniques with his katana, various types of shuriken, fireballs, a cloak of invisibility, and more. His play-style is extremely offensive, doing damage from a distance and killing up-close. He is also a master at deflecting physical projectiles with his sword, making him the ultimate projectile counter. His downfall is his mediocre recovery, poor grab-game, light weight, and difficulty killing from a distance, but he more than makes up for these with his speed, damage output, and powerful sword draws.

Ridley: While I fully acknowledge the risk of predicting Ridley, I suspect that Sakurai took note of the outcry when he was not playable yet again, and came back to revisit the idea of making him playable. While it's not a guarantee by any means, I hope that Sakurai has decided he can make Ridley work as a large, but light character who excels in the air despite his slowness on the ground.

Bandana Dee: Bandana Dee is a relatively simple addition to the roster, but manages to be an archetype we haven't seen - a small, lightweight spear user. Essentially a blend between Marth and Kirby, Bandana Dee attacks with stabbing motions that are most powerful at the spear's head. He excels at keeping opponents out with his disjoints, but he is extremely vulnerable up-close.

Wolf: Wolf returns essentially as he was in Brawl, but notably keeping a slow fall speed despite his above-average running speed.

Decidueye: While I'm not confident in any particular Pokemon character, I'm most convinced by this Ghost/Grass archer from Sun and Moon. A character that prefers sniping and precision shots over in-your-face attacks, Decidueye is remarkably adept at shooting projectiles from the air. He is fairly large and light, fast-falling, and slow on the ground, but his projectiles are capable of killing both up-close and from a distance. This Pokemon marks the first true archer in the Smash Bros. series.

Isabelle: The most lovable assistant you could ask for is a character I was initially hesitant on predicting. However, I've decided that Isabelle has a solid chance due to her extreme popularity among even casual fans. Isabelle acts as a terrain-modifying character - she uses furniture and public works projects to beautify her surroundings, including planting flowers that you had better not step on. Isabelle really doesn't mean to be hurting anyone, but she's a bit clumsy, dropping her supplies and not watching where she puts things. As a fighter, though, she's extremely good at forcing her opponents into situations that they aren't used to being in. Imagine Pac-Man's hydrant, but multiple large ones that can't be destroyed. She doesn't hit hard, but boy is she a great builder.

Alph: The only clone I actively expect. I imagine Alph playing similarly to Olimar, but with some key differences. Namely, Olimar is given his up special from Brawl, and Alph gets the Flying Pikmin as an up special. Further, while Olimar has Purple and White Pikmin, Alph has Flying Pikmin (who act like typical Pikmin, but go in a straight line when thrown) and Rock Pikmin (which have poor throws, but do amazing damage to shields.) Olimar's up-special needs to be improved significantly, but will not prove to be a nerf to him, as Pikmin numbers have been increased back to Brawl's.

Elma: I've mentioned several times before that I expect Elma to be added to represent the X side of the Xenoblade franchise, as Rex's game didn't come out until after the planning period for this game finished. Elma is a fierce fighter who carries dual swords and pistols. Speedy on the ground and with good air mobility, Elma's biggest weakness is taking hits, not dishing them out. She's light and has a below-average recovery, but hits hard, fast, and often. She could optionally be given an Overdrive mechanic; a meter fills up as time goes by and, when filled, can be activated to negate cooldown on Elma's moves.

Inklings: Do I really need to explain?

Bomberman: Given Konami and Nintendo's recent working relationship (Super Bomberman R) and Bomberman's modest popularity, I imagine we'll be seeing him as one of our third party representatives. That said, I'm not confident on him, as there's a lot of competition among third parties.

Rayman: Easily the most likely third party in my eyes, as Ubisoft and Nintendo have been closer than ever. Rayman being included only makes sense. He appeared last game as a trophy and has had his company working directly with Mario since then, producing several games in the Switch's first year. If he's not in, it's not due to Ubisoft and Nintendo's relationship.

Spring Man + Rex: I'll group these two together, as they are DLC for similar reasons. Both are extremely popular characters from games that released after the character selection process had finished. They are prime for DLC.

Sora: While definitely a risky choice on my end, I've come to the conclusion that Sora was high on the ballot. I've talked with many, many casual friends of mine, and it's astounding how many of them voted for Sora. That said, I expect him to be DLC, as that would make negotiations easier with Disney. If he's paid DLC, then Disney simply takes a cut of the sales, which is easier to manage than figuring out a lump sum to pay for the rights to have him in the base game. That said, he's certainly not a lock, and I wouldn't be surprised to not see him.

Pokemon + Fire Emblem: I am not certain yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the new protagonist of the 2018 Fire Emblem game and a new Pokemon being added as tie-ins for the release of the games, similarly to how Corrin was chosen.

Roster B assumes that the Simon leak is real and takes an optimistic approach to how many newcomers we're getting.
Funky Kong: A semi-clone with Donkey Kong as a base, Funky Kong would be an excellent choice for a late addition. I imagine Funky as a Donkey Kong that's slower on the ground and less grab-focused, but more powerful in the air and with a much better recovery.

Impa: While I could see Impa as a semi-clone, I don't expect her to be one. Rather, I imagine inspiration for her moveset being taken from both Hyrule Warriors and Breath of the Wild. Using her Naginata as a spear and either her Goron Knife or an Eightfold Longblade as a large sword, she would represent the two types of weapons in Breath of the Wild that Link does not currently use.

Snake: While I seldom put Snake on prediction rosters anymore, this is a notable exception. If Sakurai is indeed in contact with Konami for more than just a single character, which I imagine would be the case if Simon Belmont was included, then Snake could feasibly make it back due to fan demand.

Feel free to critique my roster, though please say why you have an issue with a given inclusion (/exclusion) rather than just stating what it is. Please keep in mind that my roster is simply the selection of what I think the most likely outcomes are, and that characters relatively high up on my newcomer pool in likelihood could also happen. I feel bad about excluding K. Rool, but know that there is a situation in which I can see that happening; I just don't think it's the most likely scenario to occur.

Also, the green characters are costumes, and are not really meant to be seriously critiqued. They're more ideas than anything :)
My advice:

1. If any Kong duo is happening, it will be Dixie + Kiddy. Dixie and Cranky are not as defined of a duo as Dixie + Diddy or even Dixie + Kiddy.

2. I would look into Sakurai's project planning in 2016 and consider removing choices like Funky Kong and Impa. I am assuming those additions were added because of the Switch ports, but I do not see Sakurai looking into games beyond 2018.

3. If Bomberman is the forefront choice for a Konami newcomer, then I would look into options like Simon Belmont and research Sakurai's personal history with Castlevania.

4. Consider your options with a Pokemon newcomer and look into this. Decidueye is not the only plausible choice out there.

That is my personal advice with your prediction rosters. Every other choice seems good.
 

Opossum

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Even being incredibly generous, these were all completely worthless characters:
:snake::ivysaur::olimar::luigi2:(Luigi was just a warm body for Dedede's badges)
:popo: were superfluous, :lucario: only mattered for finding Snake, who was himself a dead-end, :gw: never had and specific value, just a gag that made more sense with him but could have been replaced by Primids.
:marth: was just a spectator character that enabled anime swordsmen to play off each other.
:yoshi2: was never more than a sidekick. :squirtle: was just because Trainer had to have something.
Obviously :ike: was just a deus ex machina that didn't have a further function.
And then of, of course, three characters were added too late to even appear.

The fact that this person or that killed some Primids doesn't matter, there was clearly a functionally infinite amount and ambiently "weakening the army" could be done by any warm body.
In all fairness to Olimar, his ship was used in the dogfight against the Subspace Gunship. It's not much at all, but it's at least better than "shows up as a trophy for two seconds before a Poké Ball gets tossed at it."
 

osby

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Even being incredibly generous, these were all completely worthless characters:
:snake::ivysaur::olimar::luigi2:(Luigi was just a warm body for Dedede's badges)
:popo: were superfluous, :lucario: only mattered for finding Snake, who was himself a dead-end, :gw: never had and specific value, just a gag that made more sense with him but could have been replaced by Primids.
:marth: was just a spectator character that enabled anime swordsmen to play off each other.
:yoshi2: was never more than a sidekick. :squirtle: was just because Trainer had to have something.
Obviously :ike: was just a deus ex machina that didn't have a further function.
And then of, of course, three characters were added too late to even appear.

The fact that this person or that killed some Primids doesn't matter, there was clearly a functionally infinite amount and ambiently "weakening the army" could be done by any warm body.
This is still really good for a 30+ character story with less than an hour of screen time.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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Is there any characters that you guys think might get Chrom’ed?
As some have pointed out probably Decideueye. The bigger thing here in my opinion is Elma vs. Rex and it's not a Chrom situation at all. We don't really have any super likely characters...except maybe Decideueye as people assume he's then only logical Pokemon rep. I'm so torn on it because I would rather Mimikyu, but I'd definitely rather Decideueye than any other Pokemon (just give me a playable ghost type!).

I think there's a genuine chance of K. Rool getting "Chrom-ed" on the base roster in favor of Dixie. I know the former is far more popular, but Dixie has her fair share of support as well. Tie that in with her relevancy and I think she'd have fewer hurdles than K. Rool.
See I don't think King K. Rool is a Chrom situation. Chrom was considered the obvious fire emblem pic and had a popular leak backing him up. King K. Rool is in no way the obvious DK pick (that's Dixie imo) but is definitely the most popular. Him getting snubbed though wouldn't shock me like Chrom did.
 

MasterOfKnees

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I hope we get a gameplay trailer of the Inklings.
I imagine some gameplay of them will be tied into the main trailer to show them off properly. Sakurai might also do a little gameplay video like he did with the 3 newcomers at E3 2013. Then there will also be demos and the Invitational, and considering that the Inklings were probably at the very top of the newcomer priority list I'm certain they'll be playable there.

Rest assured we'll know exactly what they're all about after E3 wraps up.
 
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Nu~

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Considering that Decidueye isn’t nearly as popular in Japan as he is in America, I see absolutely no reason why he’d get in over the likes of Incineroar (who is extremely popular in Japan and the starter trio favorite) or Tapu Koko (flagship legendary for this gen)
 
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zauberdragon

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Is there any characters that you guys think might get Chrom’ed?
I can see springman being Chrom’ed. Regardless if people think he’s DLC or not, I can see Sakurai going for Ribbon Girl, Master Mummy or Ninjara.
Springman is a bit- generic. I’d be happy with any Arms representation to be honest but that cast has such great potential whoever they go for.
 

Cosmic77

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Considering that Decidueye isn’t nearly as popular in Japan as he is in America, I see absolutely no reason why he’d get in over the likes of Incineroar (who is extremely popular in Japan and the starter trio favorite) or Tapu Koko (flagship legendary for this gen)
People are sleeping on Incineroar's chances.

The fire feline might not seem like the most unique option (and he isn't), but it does have the promotion that Decidueye lacks, especially in the anime. From the very beginning, the writers seemed to have given Litten the heaviest focus and most character development out of the three starters.

Who knows. Maybe none of this will translate into anything. Personally, I'm just looking for small hints in promotions that could indicate who would be playable.
 
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osby

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I can see springman being Chrom’ed. Regardless if people think he’s DLC or not, I can see Sakurai going for Ribbon Girl, Master Mummy or Ninjara.
Springman is a bit- generic. I’d be happy with any Arms representation to be honest but that cast has such great potential whoever they go for.
But Spring Man is only generic in ARMS itself. In Smash his arms themselves might be more than enough to make him interesting. And on top of that, pretty much all of the roster is similarly important and all have unique mechanics, so they don't have much edge over each other.

With that being said, I think you are right, we shouldn't put all our hopes into Spring Man.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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I can see springman being Chrom’ed. Regardless if people think he’s DLC or not, I can see Sakurai going for Ribbon Girl, Master Mummy or Ninjara.
Springman is a bit- generic. I’d be happy with any Arms representation to be honest but that cast has such great potential whoever they go for.
Perhaps he could be Twintell'd. Twintold.

I understand the naming convention is backwards, but let me have this.
 

astilpe

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Alrighty here's a little game:

If you were put in charge of Smash 5 and was tasked to add 20 newcomers, who would you pick? You may replace any of these with cut veterans.
Imma go first:
  1. Toad
  2. Paper Mario
  3. King K. Rool
  4. Dixie Kong
  5. Midna
  6. any of the four Champions
  7. Ridley
  8. Kamek
  9. Bandanna Waddle Dee
  10. Marx
  11. Wolf
  12. Pichu
  13. Squirtle or Ivysaur
  14. Ice Climbers
  15. Captain Syrup
  16. Viridi
  17. Snake
  18. Shantae
  19. Sash Lilac
  20. Agnes Oblige
1 waluigi
2 crash
3 rayman
4 mach rider
5 bomberman
6 teddy (from mother 1)
7 rythm heaven character
8 geno
9 shantae
10 gin from tekken
11 murasame castle guy
12 decidueye
13 banjo (but nintendo spiteful af so doubt it)
14 virdi
15 spyro
16 shrek
17 funky
18 arms waifu
19 rawk hawk
20 gooey or marx
 
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