Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Murlough]

I've had a thought the name is gunna reveal something too seeing as every other first time reveal of Smash the name was given right away. Something involving villians (Heroes vs. Villians) is my dream but even in a dream I don't think the majority of newcomers would be villians to justify the title.

I'm thinking more something refrencing this being the ultimate smash or the final smash (for a long time at least, or maybe just Sakurai's). Maybe it'll wind up just being Super Smash Bros. to kind of tie the series together. But I definitely feel the name will be bigger than just *insert fight synonym* or for Switch.

"Super Smash Bros.: Rivals"?

I thought the theme name was kind of a silly idea at first but now I've realised a rivals themed Smash would bring in a lot of characters I want. Who rivals Pikachu? ^w^

 

[ErenJager]

Mega Man, Pac-Man, Sonic Man, Jumpman, Bomberman, Rayman and Spring Man. What other "Men" are possible?

...The Great Saiyaman

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Is there any characters that you guys think might get Chrom’ed?

Something tells me that'd be Captain Toad.

Currently he's rallying very highly for a spot in eyes of many, and has had built quite a popularity and reputation up to this point since last time he was shafted in favor of Bowser Jr and Rosalina.

To him getting snubbed after all that would be a big subject to ridicule for how Sakurai didn't give a damn about Toad yet again despite how prolific the character has grown even more since last game - instead he belongs on the "NPC"-role he's always been as some view (Captain) Toad as.

I'll just be marking this post up for that moment when it'll drop in, whether gloriously animated, or just a still screenshot of Captain Toad in any of his given NPC-roles.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I can see springman being Chrom’ed. Regardless if people think he’s DLC or not, I can see Sakurai going for Ribbon Girl, Master Mummy or Ninjara.
Springman is a bit- generic. I’d be happy with any Arms representation to be honest but that cast has such great potential whoever they go for.

Difference between Chrom and Spring Man is that the former was fundamentally similar to existing Smash Bros characters whereas Spring Man would be unlike anything else in the roster. If anything, Spring Man is more like Robin in the sense that whilst they may not be one of the more quirkier characters from their own games they nevertheless represents the essence of their franchises.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

In all fairness to Olimar, his ship was used in the dogfight against the Subspace Gunship. It's not much at all, but it's at least better than "shows up as a trophy for two seconds before a Poké Ball gets tossed at it."

Olimar is another warm body. If we were cutting down extraneous characters. you could have that same scene using only the Halberd, Dragoon and one more ship (probably Falcon Flyer) and nothing about the scene would change, it would just look less impressive.

This is still really good for a 30+ character story with less than an hour of screen time.

At first I spent entirely too long writing a response that analyzes the story, but I'll just condense it down:
The entire plot is driven by coincidences and characters who are only important because they saved another character, who is only important because they saved another character and so on. You could cut out almost the entire cast without losing anything all that specific.
are intrinsically necessary characters and are useful for driving the plot.
All anyone else does is fill up slots as warm bodies or create webs of interdependent importance that is beside the point of the central plot. For example, if Wario just wasn't there, then he'd take another 6 characters along with him, and none of it specifically matters in the end anyway.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Imagine a really cool cinematic which shows off Decidueye figthing other Pokemon then skipping to the gameplay just to show him come out of a PokeBall and then disappear. Then Lycanroc comes through and uses Stone Edge on everyone.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Something tells me that'd be Captain Toad.

Currently he's rallying very highly for a spot in eyes of many, and has had built quite a popularity and reputation up to this point since last time he was shafted in favor of Bowser Jr and Rosalina.

To him getting snubbed after all that would be a big subject to ridicule for how Sakurai didn't give a damn about Toad yet again despite how prolific the character has grown even more since last game - instead he belongs on the "NPC"-role he's always been as some view (Captain) Toad as.

Toad is similar, but kind of goes back to my opinion on King K. Rool and Dixie in a way, where there's no one obvious Mario pic (it's really between Toad, Paper Mario and Waluigi for me). But I guess it could he argued Toad is the most requested/expected, at least on here.

"Super Smash Bros.: Rivals"?

I thought the theme name was kind of a silly idea at first but now I've realised a rivals themed Smash would bring in a lot of characters I want. Who rivals Pikachu? ^w^

Oooo I didn't even think of it in a "Rivals" sense. That's easier to work with than villians (cue reveals for Ridley, Mimikyu, Waluigi, King K. Rool, etc). Not only that but you can play with what rival means such as old Xenoblade rep vs. new one or Mario vs. Sonic. Heck rivalries could even be built into a tag team battle system which could be the new "Switch" gimmick. I really like this idea lol.

 

[Fenriraga]

Something tells me that'd be Captain Toad.

Currently he's rallying very highly for a spot in eyes of many, and has had built quite a popularity and reputation up to this point since last time he was shafted in favor of Bowser Jr and Rosalina.

To him getting snubbed after all that would be a big subject to ridicule for how Sakurai didn't give a damn about Toad yet again despite how prolific the character has grown even more since last game - instead he belongs on the "NPC"-role he's always been as some view (Captain) Toad as.

We start the trailer with Captain Toad standing in front of a cliff. On the other side of said cliff, sits a Smash Ball, much like the Power Stars he collects. Knowing he can't jump, but never giving up, he backs up and rushes off the cliff with all his might.

He had done it.

He jumped. His countless days lugging around that backpack had given him strength he never knew he had.

We go to slow motion as he leaps across the casm, reaching his stubby hands out towards the Smash Ball. Suddenly, his momentum stops. Something was pushing him straight down. He plummets into the dark cliff below, and as he looks back up towards the light of day, a shadowy figure that had lept off him stares down menacingly. He only has one thing to say to the poor Captain as his hopes plummet as fast as he does...

Spoiler

 

[Opossum]

This is still really good for a 30+ character story with less than an hour of screen time.

Ehh...that's not saying much. I really enjoyed the SSE but it really didn't utilize a lot of its cast well at all. As far as characters who even had somewhat of a role...

- Basically the two main protagonists. Fighters who first notice the Subspace stuff and get separated when Petey Piranha and the Primids attacked. Mario's motivation is, like always, Peach's safety first and foremost. Kirby, meanwhile, just wants to help out, considering his friends got kidnapped or are actively missing.
- After watching what happened at the tournament he sets out to help. His motivation seemingly stems from not wanting the tournament interrupted (clearly Pit is a massive sports fan) or seeing lives at stake.
- After the Koopa Army steals their bananas, he and DK set out to stop them, only for DK to be kidnapped. Diddy's motivation is to find DK.
- The Ancient Minister himself. Cowed into submission by Ganondorf and forced to have his people manufacture Subspace bombs, not wanting any harm to befall his race. Eventually stands up for himself after seeing more and more R.O.B.s give their lives, only for his race and the entire Isle of the Ancients to be destroyed in the process.
- Seeks revenge on Wario for capturing Ness, and teams up with the Pokémon Trainer. A scared little kid who was left all alone in the world, he seeks stability. Somewhat completes his arc by blasting off Galleom's arm to help Meta Knight save the Pokémon Trainer.
- He wants to be the very best, like no one ever was. Helps Lucas find Ness seemingly in exchange for helping him catch a Charizard.
- Investigating the Island of the Ancients in an attempt to recover her Power Suit. Also saves Pikachu.
- Was used as an energy source for the Subspace Bomb factory. More of a weapon than a character, but does save Samus from Ridley.
- Had his Arwing shot down. Marooned, he gets literally dragged along by Diddy to help. His Arwing assisted in the fight against the Gunship.
- Trying to recover the Halberd which is being used to spread Shadow Bugs.
- Is aware of everything but due to Terrible People Skills™ he comes off as a bad guy. Develops the brooches that reactivate the fallen trophies.
- Secures an escape route out of the Bomb Factory and assists in the dogfight.
- Serve Master Hand, who is being controlled by Tabuu. All three act as sources of conflict.


- Act as damsels in distress more or less, and are otherwise filler. Ness and Luigi are resurrected by Dedede, but do nothing worth noting on their own.
- Gets the Master Sword from the forest...but we don't know why. Joins Mario after a misunderstanding.
- Is defending a castle from Primid invasions...but we don't know why. Also where the hell is his army.
- Sneaks aboard the Halberd...but we don't know why.
- Show up out of nowhere to help (in Lucario's case after a fight) but have no further narrative purpose.
- Only there for the ride, pretty much. Padding. Olimar at least helps with the Hocotate ship, but still.
- Literally Irrelevant

Then we had Master Hand who was being controlled by Tabuu, and Tabuu himself as the main antagonist.




So in general, a good portion of the cast could have been removed and literally nothing would change. This is most egregious with Link, Marth, and Snake, in my opinion, as they clearly had reasons to be where they were, but those reasons were never given. But yeah, when nearly half the playable roster doesn't have any proper development or even reason for being in the story mode, it's a sign that the cast was too big to handle. Like I said, I love the SSE, but there were some clear problems, and a lot come from cast management.

 

[Fenriraga]

. - Show up out of nowhere to help (in Lucario's case after a fight) but have no further narrative purpose.

Friendly reminder that Sonic single handedly saved the entire Nintendo Universe by clipping Tabuu's wings.

Sega won the console wars.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I could see Bandana Dee getting Chrom'd, which is unfortunate. I feel like Bandana Dee getting deconfirmed by having some other role will feel way worse than Decidueye being deconfirmed as a Pokeball. There's dozens of logical Pokemon options, but who from Kirby actually competes with Dee? That'll leave a much worse taste in peoples mouths.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

As someone who enjoys the Rhythm Heaven series a good amount, I wouldn't really say the series has a certain "mascot".
It's kind of changed from game to game.

• Rhythm Tengoku had the Tap Trial Girl / Rhythm Girl
• Rhythm Heaven had the Glee Club (better known as the Chorus Kids to Smash fans)
• Rhythm Heaven Fever had Marshall, Cam, and Ms. Ribbon
• Rhythm Heaven Megamix had Tibby

Even then, it's probably worth mentioning Karate Joe for not only appearing in every game in the franchise, but also appearing in the most individual rhythm minigames out of nearly every character in the franchise. Heck, even the Tap Trial / Monkey Watch / Tambourine Monkey could work too, being a character that does show up more often than Karate Joe does.

Really, the franchise has a whole ton of characters to choose from, because there really isn't a 'set in stone' mascot. One of my favorite movesets I've seen is a Karate Joe + Chorus Kid moveset:

Made a quick move set for my ideal Rhythm Heaven rep for the next Smash. Thought it'd be cool to have a character that focused heavily on timing and the various mini games from the series. pic.twitter.com/GH03ihWhKU

— Kevin Fagaragan (@KevinFagaragan) March 26, 2018

There's a whole ton they could with the series. I'm disappointed that it got the axe sometime in Smash 4's development.

Tap Trial Girl is in pretty much all of those games as well as game and soundtrack covers, so...

 

[osby]

Olimar is another warm body. If we were cutting down extraneous characters. you could have that same scene using only the Halberd, Dragoon and one more ship (probably Falcon Flyer) and nothing about the scene would change, it would just look less impressive.

At first I spent entirely too long writing a response that analyzes the story, but I'll just condense it down:
The entire plot is driven by coincidences and characters who are only important because they saved another character, who is only important because they saved another character and so on. You could cut out almost the entire cast without losing anything all that specific.
are intrinsically necessary characters and are useful for driving the plot.
All anyone else does is fill up slots as warm bodies or create webs of interdependent importance that is beside the point of the central plot. For example, if Wario just wasn't there, then he'd take another 6 characters along with him, and none of it specifically matters in the end anyway.

Its a contest on SG's twitter. Just post 16 newcomers and see who gets the closest. For fun, here's mine

1. Spring Man
2. Isabelle
3. Rex & Pyra
4. Decidueye
5. Takamaru
6. Mipha
7. Captain Toad
8. Ridley
9. Slippy
10. Eevee
11. Chrous Men
12. Henry Fleming (Codename STEAM)
13. Ribbon Girl
14. Urbosa
15. Bomberman
16. Olberic (Octopath Traveler)

Did forget Sherrif but whatever

My mistake, it was a mess. ıt's a good thing it removed in the last game. If they can't manage a cast with 30+ characters, think what would happen with a even larger cast.

 

[Nekoo]

Sonic actually Saved everyone in the universe and Weakened Tabuu in a single attack.
I guess his experience with Mystic Vilain of the week in his own series Helps.

 

[Fenriraga]

I can imagine that if they were to put their effort solely into a single player Subspace mode, to the point where it is solely a standalone game, that a Subspace story could work. But trying to do that along WITH an actual Smash game leads to its share of problems, as Brawl's SSE showed.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I could see Bandana Dee getting Chrom'd, which is unfortunate. I feel like Bandana Dee getting deconfirmed by having some other role will feel way worse than Decidueye being deconfirmed as a Pokeball. There's dozens of logical Pokemon options, but who from Kirby actually competes with Dee? That'll leave a much worse taste in peoples mouths.

There's no basis to expect Bandana Waddle Dee though. Even if he's playable or he has some relationship to Kirby, that doesn't change that he's a variation of Waddle Dee in the same way Parasol Waddle Dee is. He just happens to be playable because they needed a fourth playable character. And being the fourth playable character doesn't make you as important to the series as the other playable characters. There's no more of a reason to expect him now than there was to expect him last time.

Just because a series has a "next best character", doesn't make that character a necessary inclusion. Every series has their next most important character.

 

[MBRedboy31]

In the SSE, there is the fact that whichever character you want (aside from the ones available only post ending) can be the one to deal the final blow to Tabuu, which is vaguely significant, even if not entirely canon.

Perhaps, in a new story mode, the main characters can be whichever ones you pick. Of course, the plot would have to be minimal, but it could still be fun.

Or, for something sillier, there could be a list of roles and you can cast whichever characters into whichever roles (kinda like how some Mii games like Miitopia let you cast anyone into any role) so the plot could end up being completely ridiculous based on which characters you pick. There, of course, wouldn’t be FMV’s, anything the characters do would have to be acted out with existing animations.

 

[Fenriraga]

There's no basis to expect Bandana Waddle Dee though. Even if he's playable or he has some relationship to Kirby, that doesn't change that he's a variation of Waddle Dee in the same way Parasol Waddle Dee is. He just happens to be playable because they needed a fourth playable character. And being the fourth playable character doesn't make you as important to the series as the other playable characters. There's no more of a reason to expect him now than there was to expect him last time.

Just because a series has a "next best character", doesn't make that character a necessary inclusion. Every series has their next most important character.

He is heavily implied to be Kirby's best friend. He helps him in both Triple Deluxe and Planet Robobot by giving him items, he's Kirby's partner in Battle Royale (Which gave him a personality along with the other characters), he's involved with King Dedede in Super Star Ultra's Revenge of the King Mode, amongst other appearances, playable or otherwise. Say what you will about his chances, but claiming he isn't relevant to the series outside of being a 4th character is undermining him greatly. HAL has given him plenty of identity by this point.

EDIT: AND the sole player 2 in Kirby Rainbow Curse, as pointed out to me. Completely forgot about that.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

There's no basis to expect Bandana Waddle Dee though. Even if he's playable or he has some relationship to Kirby, that doesn't change that he's a variation of Waddle Dee in the same way Parasol Waddle Dee is. He just happens to be playable because they needed a fourth playable character. And being the fourth playable character doesn't make you as important to the series as the other playable characters. There's no more of a reason to expect him now than there was to expect him last time.

Just because a series has a "next best character", doesn't make that character a necessary inclusion. Every series has their next most important character.

Well the question was "who could get Chrom'd", and Chrom was by no means a necessary inclusion or even the next most important character, but he still got Chrom'd which left a bad taste in peoples mouths, sooooooooooo I think Dee still applies to the question, sorry you have to disagree I guess lmao

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I could see Bandana Dee getting Chrom'd, which is unfortunate. I feel like Bandana Dee getting deconfirmed by having some other role will feel way worse than Decidueye being deconfirmed as a Pokeball. There's dozens of logical Pokemon options, but who from Kirby actually competes with Dee? That'll leave a much worse taste in peoples mouths.

I can't see much reason for him to get Chrom'd though. He's the most notable next member in the Kirby series, and a pretty major character at this point. If he is considered(I say if solely due to Sakurai not heavily looking into Kirby games he didn't make), the only real issue is moveset factors. Which shouldn't be much of an issue anyway. He's not my personal choice, but I could easily see him getting in than Chrom'd instead. Waddle Dees, the race, compared to a proper character, work best in an Assist Role only. Final Smash or Assist Trophy. Bandanna Waddle Dee doesn't feel like AT material. Some newer but prevalent characters can work well with that role(Isabelle is a perfect example of this, only because her entire goal is to assist others), but BWD? Not the same situation.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

My mistake, it was a mess. ıt's a good thing it removed in the last game. If they can't manage a cast with 30+ characters, think what would happen with a even larger cast.

Neither of us were saying we disliked SSE. Just for having levels, enemies, and non-playable bosses I'd love to have a sequel. It's just that, if possible, I'd also like the writing to be a little more solid. If Wario had a clearer motivation, is Snake C4'd the Halberd, if Pikachu was actually powering something, it would feel a lot more useful.
I think the real thing is that there needs to be bosses with agency (Galleom and Duon didn't need to exist, Porky and Ridley amounted to stage hazards) and motivations/importance that extends outside of the cast supporting and justifying itself. That's not that hard to do, just little things like a few NPCs that the playable roster is acting on behalf of or something like that would make it feel more substantial. Even just more character arcs like what Lucas had would help, or more interesting points of conflict like the ROB/Ganon/Tabuu stuff and Bowser apparently being a subspace loyalist.

 

[Koopaul]

He is heavily implied to be Kirby's best friend. He helps him in both Triple Deluxe and Planet Robobot by giving him items, he's Kirby's partner in Battle Royale (Which gave him a personality along with the other characters), he's involved with King Dedede in Super Star Ultra's Revenge of the King Mode, amongst other appearances, playable or otherwise. Say what you will about his chances, but claiming he isn't relevant to the series outside of being a 4th character is undermining him greatly. HAL has given him plenty of identity by this point.

Don't forget Kirby and the Rainbow Curse for the Wii U. He was player 2 in that game and Dedede/Meta Knight were no where to be seen.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Neither of us were saying we disliked SSE. Just for having levels, enemies, and non-playable bosses I'd love to have a sequel. It's just that, if possible, I'd also like the writing to be a little more solid. If Wario had a clearer motivation, is Snake C4'd the Halberd, if Pikachu was actually powering something, it would feel a lot more useful.
I think the real thing is that there needs to be bosses with agency (Galleom and Duon didn't need to exist, Porky and Ridley amounted to stage hazards) and motivations/importance that extends outside of the cast supporting and justifying itself. That's not that hard to do, just little things like a few NPCs that the playable roster is acting on behalf of or something like that would make it feel more substantial. Even just more character arcs like what Lucas had would help, or more interesting points of conflict like the ROB/Ganon/Tabuu stuff and Bowser apparently being a subspace loyalist.

One thing to remember is that it's hard to do that when none of the characters speak (not that they can't canonically, but that's what Sakurai chose). Not saying impossible, but I defintely remember the long story explaining post Sakurai posted on the dojo that helped with so much context you miss in the game.

I think it would take way too much effort honestly. I'd rather a nitntendo adventure crossover be it's own game at this point.

ALSO while Lucas's character arc was one of the better parts of SSE it would be lame to have it repeat. None of the characters from Brawl have really grown, I mean it's a fighting game, so they'd have similar arcs from that game. Don't know how intresting that would be from a story perspective.

 

[Arcadenik]

Alrighty here's a little game:

If you were put in charge of Smash 5 and was tasked to add 20 newcomers, who would you pick? You may replace any of these with cut veterans.

I would add these newcomers.

1. Toad / Captain Toad
2. Dixie Kong
3. King K. Rool
4. Tingle
5. Impa
6. Ridley
7. Bandana Waddle Dee
8. Meowth / Alolan Meowth
9. Decidueye
10. Rex & Pyra
11. Takamaru
12. Lip
    
13. Spring Man
14. Wandering Heroes (cats, dogs, and bunnies from StreetPass Mii Plaza: Find Mii I & II)
15. Track Meet (World Class Track Meet)
    
16. Simon Belmont
    
17. Banjo-Kazooie
18. Eight (protagonist from Dragon Quest VIII)
19. Shantae
20. Shovel Knight

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I can't see much reason for him to get Chrom'd though. He's the most notable next member in the Kirby series, and a pretty major character at this point. If he is considered(I say if solely due to Sakurai not heavily looking into Kirby games he didn't make), the only real issue is moveset factors. Which shouldn't be much of an issue anyway. He's not my personal choice, but I could easily see him getting in than Chrom'd instead. Waddle Dees, the race, compared to a proper character, work best in an Assist Role only. Final Smash or Assist Trophy. Bandanna Waddle Dee doesn't feel like AT material. Some newer but prevalent characters can work well with that role(Isabelle is a perfect example of this, only because her entire goal is to assist others), but BWD? Not the same situation.

I mean I definitely think he's more likely to be playable than not included, I really just wanted to say it's possible with him. I don't necessarily think there are other Kirby characters worth including, especially over BWD. I could really just see some kind of trailer bait happening with Dee that winds up leading to him being something else. For example you see him as a non-main role in a trailer and then happens to be something else that is revealed in following gameplay.

I certainly don't think it's likely, but Dee also feels like a prime target to be a "shoo-in" (out of the very few "shoo-in" possibilities) that winds up getting stuck with some other role.

 

[Koopaul]

I'm not confident in a 4th Kirby character. But if there was a 4th Kirby character, it'd probably be him.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

One thing to remember is that it's hard to do that when none of the characters speak (not that they can't canonically, but that's what Sakurai chose). Not saying impossible, but I defintely remember the long story explaining post Sakurai posted on the dojo that helped with so much context you miss in the game.

I think it would take way too much effort honestly. I'd rather a nitntendo adventure crossover be it's own game at this point.

One thing to remember is that nothing I suggested requires voicing. I know what ROB's motivation is, same with MK, DK, Dedede, Mario, Lucas and several others. Wario is one of the ~1/4 of the cast that didn't have that, but he also had the involvement of 6 other characters hinge on him.
And obviously Snake blowing something up or Pikachu getting freed causing something to lose power don't need voicing. There's no qualitative limitation in how they did the story that affects what I said except that there weren't NPCs, just playable characters and bosses.

 

[Opossum]

Neither of us were saying we disliked SSE. Just for having levels, enemies, and non-playable bosses I'd love to have a sequel. It's just that, if possible, I'd also like the writing to be a little more solid. If Wario had a clearer motivation, is Snake C4'd the Halberd, if Pikachu was actually powering something, it would feel a lot more useful.
I think the real thing is that there needs to be bosses with agency (Galleom and Duon didn't need to exist, Porky and Ridley amounted to stage hazards) and motivations/importance that extends outside of the cast supporting and justifying itself. That's not that hard to do, just little things like a few NPCs that the playable roster is acting on behalf of or something like that would make it feel more substantial. Even just more character arcs like what Lucas had would help, or more interesting points of conflict like the ROB/Ganon/Tabuu stuff and Bowser apparently being a subspace loyalist.

The lack of non-boss NPCs in general was a giant missed opportunity IMO. Outside of Palutena, there were none shown on screen. This is especially egregious with the Great Fox. There's a scene where it shows up and neither Fox nor Falco are piloting it, which means Peppy/Slippy/ROB64 had to be there, but weren't shown.

Like, if we got say, Colonel Campbell calling up Snake and giving context to why he was on the Halberd, or had Caeda in the castle scene to give context to why Marth was defending a random fortress, or anything like that, certain characters would feel far less extraneous.

 

[Cosmic77]

Saying that Bandana Dee could get Chrom'd is essentially saying that someone else could get in before him. Good luck convincing me with that scenario.

But seriously, if Dee isn't playable, who else would Sakurai have had time to consider? Star Allies was likely too late to have an influence on the roster, so the only other relevant options were Taranza and Susie. Everyone else's time had long since passed.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Saying that Bandana Dee could get Chrom'd is essentially saying that someone else could get in before him. Good luck convincing me with that scenario.

But seriously, if Dee isn't playable, who else would Sakurai have had time to consider? Star Allies was likely too late to play an influence on the roster, so the only other relevant options were Tatanga and Susie. Everyone else's time had long since passed.

You mean Taranza right? Tatanga is the alien from Super Mario Land, the only noteworthy character about that game

 

[Fenriraga]

You mean Taranza right? Tatanga is the alien from Super Mario Land, the only noteworthy character about that game

Ouch.

I don't even like Daisy that much, but... Ouch.

 

[Cosmic77]

You mean Taranza right? Tatanga is the alien from Super Mario Land, the only noteworthy character about that game

Fixed it. Don't know why I always get those two confused. Taranza looks like a tarantula, so you'd think I'd easily make the connection with his name.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Well the question was "who could get Chrom'd", and Chrom was by no means a necessary inclusion or even the next most important character, but he still got Chrom'd which left a bad taste in peoples mouths, sooooooooooo I think Dee still applies to the question, sorry you have to disagree I guess lmao

You can't "Chrom'd" someone like Bandana Waddle Dee. He's been reduced to a role of doing nothing more than throwing you healing items between levels. lmao.

 

[monadoboy]

Kirby's best friend.

I haven't played much Kirby besides Squeak Squad and Super Star Ultra (and watching the anime) but I want Dee now.

Edit: About Subspace... Writing a decent story with a cast as humongous as Smash 4 would need to be seriously big. Most characters are main characters in their games, and many would need to be sidelined or pushed away. That's potential to disappoint people. It would take around 2 novels worth of material to properly implement them, even considering that Mario, etc. are not plot-heavy series.
The other problem is that many of the franchises are voice/dialogue heavy. It was awkward watching Marth and Ike silently communicate, I can't even see someone like Shulk or Pit (after Uprising) behaving like that. Having half the cast speak,and half the cast silent would be weird. What would Link do? We know he canonically speaks, but he remains silent for gameplay purposes. (Proxi was one of the low points of Hyrule Warriors for me.)

 

[MBRedboy31]

If Bandana Waddle Dee were to get Chrom'd, it would have to be by someone with some relatively historical value, probably (thus comes the mention of theoretical Sakurai bias which may or may not be real) but aside from that, yeah, doesn't seem like Dee would get beaten out by another Kirby character. (Since Smash is a crossover, though, who knows, he might get Chrom'd by someone from an entirely different franchise?)

On another note, though, let's not forget when an entire Kirby game got Chrom'd, when the Rosalina trailer got many of our hopes up about Kirby Air Ride 2 and then destroyed them, ahaha... Do you think something like that might happen again during Smash 5's pre-release period?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

He is heavily implied to be Kirby's best friend. He helps him in both Triple Deluxe and Planet Robobot by giving him items, he's Kirby's partner in Battle Royale (Which gave him a personality along with the other characters), he's involved with King Dedede in Super Star Ultra's Revenge of the King Mode, amongst other appearances, playable or otherwise. Say what you will about his chances, but claiming he isn't relevant to the series outside of being a 4th character is undermining him greatly. HAL has given him plenty of identity by this point.

EDIT: AND the sole player 2 in Kirby Rainbow Curse, as pointed out to me. Completely forgot about that.

A character having a canonically valuable relationship to the main character is not an argument. That's not a basis for including a character as a newcomer. Otherwise there are plenty of characters that aren't in that should be, most of which you would likely disregard.

 

[Zerp]

Saying that Bandana Dee could get Chrom'd is essentially saying that someone else could get in before him. Good luck convincing me with that scenario.

But seriously, if Dee isn't playable, who else would Sakurai have had time to consider? Star Allies was likely too late to play an influence on the roster, so the only other relevant options were Taranza and Susie. Everyone else's time had long since passed.

Other than the easy answer of Marx because Sakurai bias, there's one other character like Bandana Dee with all-star tier credentials.

Spoiler: Major Kirby Star Allies spoilers

Dark Matter

Their time never passed in the first place, their influence still lives on, it's nothing new, all Star Allies did was make it obvious for the past games.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Also I don't see Bandana Dee getting Chrom'd. Chrom had a single chance and he didn't make the cut. Bandana Dee may have gotten literally nothing last time but he still stayed relevant to the main games and stuff. If he won't be playable then for the love of god at least give my good boy SOMETHING

 

[Opossum]

You can't "Chrom'd" someone like Bandana Waddle Dee. He's been reduced to a role of doing nothing more than throwing you healing items between levels. lmao.

That's completely false. If anything, HAL has been giving Dee an increasing amount of importance, not a decreasing amount.

 

[Cosmic77]

Other than the easy answer of Marx because Sakurai bias, there's one other character like Bandana Dee with all-star tier credentials.

Spoiler: Major Kirby Star Allies spoilers

View attachment 145527

Dark Matter

Their time never passed in the first place, their influence still lives on.

Marx would be a random and confusing addition if Sakurai had no knowledge of his appearance in Star Allies.

The second one would make more sense, but only because he was an extra boss in Robobot. Even then, that was a minor role. Just like Marx, he didn't exactly have many recent appearances beforehand.