Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TumblrFamous]

Honestly, I could see Sakurai giving Captain Toad springs as jumps though. It'd be a unique spin, and is still true to Captain Toad's character.

Maybe just give him one super high jump with the spring, and make the cannon his up special. There you go.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Those merits didn't get him very far the last time.

Kinda true but 3D World probably came out too late for him to be considered lol

Honestly, I could see Sakurai giving Captain Toad springs as jumps though. It'd be a unique spin, and is still true to Captain Toad's character.

Maybe just give him one super high jump with the spring, and make the cannon his up special. There you go.

Are there springs in treasure tracker? Regardless c. toad can't really just summon strings and having to do that just so he could jump would be weird

 

[Deleted member]

Nah, it's because people want the "starter triangle" of sorts to be complete with Charizard, Greninja, and Decidueye.

Which is a pretty flimsy reason to want a new rep but to each their own.

....that's literally a big part of what I just said.
Rowlet doesn't get much discussion because it's the base form of the Grass Starter.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Nah, it's because people want the "starter triangle" of sorts to be complete with Charizard, Greninja, and Decidueye.

Which is a pretty flimsy reason to want a new rep but to each their own.

Yet I would still argue having something like Charizard-Greninja-Decidueye would be a lot better than whatever-the-hell they were trying to accomplish with the Pokemon Trainer in Brawl.

Conveys the same idea of having starters being fighters minus all of the crappy mechanics weighing it down.

 

[Deleted member]

Even if the "let's make him pack lighter so he can actually jump" excuse was used, he'd still jump lower than the average Toad (which already are known for being lower jumpers than Mario) and not have the Toad's "trademark" speed to make up for it.


People seriously support a character that is as much an air fighter as Little Mac and as much a ground fighter as Jigglypuff.

Let that sink in.


All I'm going to say on Cap'n Tudd.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

When it comes to Captain Toad, what it ultimately boils down to for me is Toad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Captain Toad.

 

[Lyndis_]

Even if the "let's make him pack lighter so he can actually jump" excuse was used, he'd still jump lower than the average Toad (which already are known for being lower jumpers than Mario) and not have the Toad's "trademark" speed to make up for it.


People seriously support a character that is as much an air fighter as Little Mac and as much a ground fighter as Jigglypuff.

Let that sink in.


All I'm going to say on Cap'n Tudd.

Who says they'd be bad on the ground? Mobility is not everything, all they need is the right moves. Robin says hello (even if they may not be competitively fantastic, buffs could have easily fixed that without touching their mobility.)

A very poor jump with amazing aerials/specials and good zoning or stage control wouldn't necessarily make him a bad fighter.

There's really no reason to be so binary about everything in a fighting game genre that allows more creativity and freedom with it's characters than any other.

 

[Superyoshiom]

And yet I rarely see him discussed as a possible candidate either in here or even in places like YouTube.

People are too clingy to patterns, it's just human nature. I like Decidueye, but he's not even the most popular Pokemon in his generation, that goes to Rowlet.

Rowlet, Mimikyu, Lycanroc, they're all more popular than Decidueye. People bring up the fact that he was in DX, but remember that Braixen got in and Greninja didn't. Even compared to his other starter final evos, Incineroar seems to be the most advertised. If the fire-fighting meme came true again for him, I could see this being a landslide victory for Decidueye but as it stands, it's neck and neck.

I'd love the guy in the game, and I do prefer him to options like Rowlet and Mimikyu (I think Lycanroc would be cooler to see IMO). But those two Pokemon have a much bigger chance of showing up, if we even get a gen 7 Pokemon at that.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Even if the "let's make him pack lighter so he can actually jump" excuse was used, he'd still jump lower than the average Toad (which already are known for being lower jumpers than Mario) and not have the Toad's "trademark" speed to make up for it.


People seriously support a character that is as much an air fighter as Little Mac and as much a ground fighter as Jigglypuff.

Let that sink in.


All I'm going to say on Cap'n Tudd.

Also let me point out there are people that will vouch for Captain Toad despite being "a generic Toad", yet will dismiss the Bandanna Waddle Dee because he's "a generic Waddle Dee".

Kind of a double standard that annoys me.

 

[Superyoshiom]

This Captain Toad debate is interesting. The way I see it, having a character that can't jump could make for one of the most interesting characters we could ever see in Smash. Pretty much Little Mac's idea taken to the logical extreme. Sakurai would eat that up/

 

[TumblrFamous]

Are there springs in treasure tracker? Regardless c. toad can't really just summon strings and having to do that just so he could jump would be weird

I'm not going to lie, it's been a minute since I've played that game so I may be thinking of something else (if someone has played it more recently and wants to let me know, hmu). My apologies if I am wrong on that front!

Even without springs then, there's still the idea that people have in mind with stage manipulation (creating platforms that lift him up). I think something that is brought up a lot is how weird that would look, but if we're looking at ways to stay truthful to his character, the entire game is to have the player manipulate the stage and locations to assist Captain Toad in his star-collecting. The very premise of that moveset would be a nice homage.

Despite all this, I can still see Sakurai either saying "we're going against his inability to jump and make him" or just say no to the character altogether because of this setback. It may be a Ridley-like situation, where we can all personally clamor and say how the character can work, but it's up to Sakurai to see that. Personally, I think he at least entertained Captain Toad and tried to see what he can do with platform "conjuring" and manipulation in lieu of regular jumps.

I still appreciate your concern about Captain Toad; it's super valid! I just think Sakurai has the mind to make a disadvantage some sort of wild mechanic that has not been thought of!

 

[Deleted member]

Also let me point out there are people that will vouch for Captain Toad despite being "a generic Toad", yet will dismiss the Bandanna Waddle Dee because he's "a generic Waddle Dee".

Kind of a double standard that annoys me.

I've never actually seen this.

 

[vaanrose]

Also let me point out there are people that will vouch for Captain Toad despite being "a generic Toad", yet will dismiss the Bandanna Waddle Dee because he's "a generic Waddle Dee".

Kind of a double standard that annoys me.

And I'm the only person on the internet who vouches for Baby Metroid.

 

[Triangles]

I feel the argument about Captain Toad not being able to jump can be worked around. Here's an idea I have for him.

The biggest reason why he is unable to jump is because his backpack is too heavy. How about we empty it out from the start, and he is able to add things into it. Imagine Captain Toad being a mixture of Villager and Peach. His neutral special (B) is Villagers pocket, but can up to six item and projectiles at a time which is stored in his backpack. The more stuff he holds, the more damage his attacks deal, but his jumping also gets worse. Side special (Side B) is that he throws or launches a random item or projectile that's in his backpack making him weaker, but also lighter making recovering much better. His up special (Up B) is emptying out his entire bag. Every item is tossed out and launched in order for him to recover. The less stuff in his bag, the better his recovery is. Finally, his down special (Down B) would be Peach's vegetable. Like Peach, he is able to pluck vegetables from the ground (sometimes bombs) and use them as items, or, in Captain Toad's case, store them in his backpack. This is the only creative way I can see Captain Toad working out for Smash.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

And I'm the only person on the internet who vouches for Baby Metroid.

: The Baby!

 

[Lyndis_]

I definitely like that idea, and I agree with your post up until

This is the only creative way I can see Captain Toad working out for Smash.

I don't feel this is true, I listed out quite a few ways he could work in the last page. There's many unique ways to do Captain Toad without ignoring the restriction entirely.

 

[monadoboy]

I've been lurking for a while and saw Lucina mentioned several times. She's probably my most wanted character, due to the uncertainty of her return (I'd be shocked if Shulk or Robin were cut). I came up with a semi-clone moveset while playing Warriors, and I think she has potential to be the most unique semi-clone in all Smash, although it depends on both Warriors and Heroes taken into consideration.

Spoiler: Lucina Moveset

Lucina's Falchion is MUCH bigger than Marth's, and her fighting style is wild, like Chrom. She drags her sword across the ground in many of her attacks in Warriors, and even in her Smash reveal, something I can't see Marth ever doing.
Some of her changes would be:

• Neutral B - Breaker Strike: Same animation as Shieldbreaker, but no charge, she simply burst forward like her Strong I attack in Warriors, with a small projectile coming out of the sword. (I'm not sure if the projectile has a hitbox in Warriors, but having a projectile sets her apart from Marth.) Alternatively: Light Bow: Lucina summons a bow of light like her Awakening in Warriors. (iirc she also uses a bow in S.T.E.A.M. and her Monster Hunter costume came with a bow.)
• Down B - Ice Mirror: Fjorm's unique special in Heroes. Lucina strikes a pose similar to counter, but with a mirror or light around her. If a projectile hits her during that time, she absorbs it and it boosts the power of her next hit. This gives her an anti-projectile option to differentiate her further, and removes a counter Special from the game. Could also work like a hybrid of Cloud's Limit Break and G&W's Bucket. One hit powers up her Specials slightly, two moderately, and three pushes them to Limit Break levels. Might give her an edge over projectile characters, something Marth lacks, and she could work as a counterpick for Marth mains. Ice Mirror's FEH description: If foe's Range = 2, reduces damage from foe's attacks by 30%. Boosts unit's next attack by total damage reduced (by any source, including other skills) when Special triggers. Resets at end of combat.
• Up B: Aether - Lucina throws her sword upwards, but instead of falling straight down like Ike when she grabs it, she flies diagonally down sword first, the landing having a similar effect to King Dedede's Up B, but weaker.
• Side B: Galeforce - Lucina jumps forward, spinning midair like in her fight vs. Chrom at Arena Ferox. Alternatively: Astra - A faster Dancing Blade without the option to change directions.
• Falchion: Range boost. At least eight to ten "inches" longer than Marth. No tipper/center damage boosts. Right now, she is Marth with training wheels, and that kinda sucks.
• Idle animation changed to her Awakening idle animation.
• Aerials: Mostly the same, except for her back air. Lucina stabs behind her forcefully, without turning around like Marth. Personally, I don't think her current back air suits Awakening's Falchion. Optional: Change down air to something like Ike's/Roy's, those look better with a heavier sword.
• Tilts, grabs and jabs stay the same, with a tweak or two. Up Smash too.
• Side Smash - Lucina does a jump attack like her critical animation in Awakening. Hits harder than her current F-Smash, but a tad slower.
• Down Smash - Lucina drags her sword from behind her in a rising arc, hits behind first, then in front.

Has Sakurai ever taken something from spin-offs for a moveset? I can't seem to remember anything in particular.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Also let me point out there are people that will vouch for Captain Toad despite being "a generic Toad", yet will dismiss the Bandanna Waddle Dee because he's "a generic Waddle Dee".

Kind of a double standard that annoys me.

I think a better example is one vouching for Toad, despite him being a species, and will discard Kamek for also being a species (in Japan at least).

 

[Bowserlick]

Metaknight has four recovery specials. Captain Toad can as well.

Maybe he can use all four in the air once?

Another idea is allowing the Cap two sets of moves. A traditional ground set and an anti-air ground set toggled into with the jump button. His anti-air set would become his aerials if he is knocked into the air.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Has Sakurai ever taken something from spin-offs for a moveset? I can't seem to remember anything in particular.

Well Bowser Jr's side-B was obviously inspired by Mario Kart, Mewtwo's use of Shadow Ball is taken from the First movie and Luigi's new Final Smash from Luigi's Mansion 2.

Also Cloud's Advent Children costume but that's not a move.

Some claim Mario's Final Smash was inspired by SMRPG too.

 

[Icedragonadam]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros/76514442?page=2

So you know who says he found something about Daisy(surprise, surprise)'s amiibo data in Yoshi's Woolly World compared to the others. Of course he's claiming it means Daisy is in Smash. But I'm interested if someone who datamines here could look to see if what he says about the Daisy amiibo data in Yoshi's Woolly World is true. Doesn't mean she's in Smash like I said though.

 

[Opossum]

I've been lurking for a while and saw Lucina mentioned several times. She's probably my most wanted character, due to the uncertainty of her return (I'd be shocked if Shulk or Robin were cut). I came up with a semi-clone moveset while playing Warriors, and I think she has potential to be the most unique semi-clone in all Smash, although it depends on both Warriors and Heroes taken into consideration.

Spoiler: Lucina Moveset

Lucina's Falchion is MUCH bigger than Marth's, and her fighting style is wild, like Chrom. She drags her sword across the ground in many of her attacks in Warriors, and even in her Smash reveal, something I can't see Marth ever doing.
Some of her changes would be:

• Neutral B - Breaker Strike: Same animation as Shieldbreaker, but no charge, she simply burst forward like her Strong I attack in Warriors, with a small projectile coming out of the sword. (I'm not sure if the projectile has a hitbox in Warriors, but having a projectile sets her apart from Marth.) Alternatively: Light Bow: Lucina summons a bow of light like her Awakening in Warriors. (iirc she also uses a bow in S.T.E.A.M. and her Monster Hunter costume came with a bow.)
• Down B - Ice Mirror: Fjorm's unique special in Heroes. Lucina strikes a pose similar to counter, but with a mirror or light around her. If a projectile hits her during that time, she absorbs it and it boosts the power of her next hit. This gives her an anti-projectile option to differentiate her further, and removes a counter Special from the game. Could also work like a hybrid of Cloud's Limit Break and G&W's Bucket. One hit powers up her Specials slightly, two moderately, and three pushes them to Limit Break levels. Might give her an edge over projectile characters, something Marth lacks, and she could work as a counterpick for Marth mains. Ice Mirror's FEH description: If foe's Range = 2, reduces damage from foe's attacks by 30%. Boosts unit's next attack by total damage reduced (by any source, including other skills) when Special triggers. Resets at end of combat.
• Up B: Aether - Lucina throws her sword upwards, but instead of falling straight down like Ike when she grabs it, she flies diagonally down sword first, the landing having a similar effect to King Dedede's Up B, but weaker.
• Side B: Galeforce - Lucina jumps forward, spinning midair like in her fight vs. Chrom at Arena Ferox. Alternatively: Astra - A faster Dancing Blade without the option to change directions.
• Falchion: Range boost. At least eight to ten "inches" longer than Marth. No tipper/center damage boosts. Right now, she is Marth with training wheels, and that kinda sucks.
• Idle animation changed to her Awakening idle animation.
• Aerials: Mostly the same, except for her back air. Lucina stabs behind her forcefully, without turning around like Marth. Personally, I don't think her current back air suits Awakening's Falchion. Optional: Change down air to something like Ike's/Roy's, those look better with a heavier sword.
• Tilts, grabs and jabs stay the same, with a tweak or two. Up Smash too.
• Side Smash - Lucina does a jump attack like her critical animation in Awakening. Hits harder than her current F-Smash, but a tad slower.
• Down Smash - Lucina drags her sword from behind her in a rising arc, hits behind first, then in front.

Has Sakurai ever taken something from spin-offs for a moveset? I can't seem to remember anything in particular.

I really don't like the idea of giving her Ice Mirror to be honest. If it were inheritable I'd take less of an issue with it, but considering its Fjorm's signature special, it just feels kinda wrong giving it to Lucina.

It just reminds me too much of when people were advocating having Little Mac use the other boxers' signature techniques, like the Bull Charge or Aran Ryan's rope glove. :/

 

[Superyoshiom]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros/76514442?page=2

So you know who says he found something about Daisy(surprise, surprise)'s amiibo data in Yoshi's Woolly World compared to the others. Of course he's claiming it means Daisy is in Smash. But I'm interested if someone who datamines here could look to see if what he says about the Daisy amiibo data in Yoshi's Woolly World is true. Doesn't mean she's in Smash like I said though.

Memoryman is a living meme.

 

[Ridel]

Memoryman is a living meme.

Not just a meme....one legendary proportions.

 

[Blargg888]

But captain toad can't just summon a spring.

Neither can Sonic, yet look at his up special. It's really not that farfetched.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Neither can Sonic, yet look at his up special. It's really not that farfetched.

Special moves are different from just jumping tho, it'd be weird

 

[Starcutter]

So, what are your guys hopes for some 3rd party Mii costumes? (assuming Miis come back)

I know that there's no possible way for Neku from The World Ends With You to get in smash, but if we can get a Mii costume and a couple songs from the game it would really excite me.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

If Rayman is in, then an Assassin's Creed outfit would be cool for Swordfighter.

 

[vaanrose]

Only Mii costume I need is that cute cardigan/skirt combo Nikki wears.

 

[Zerp]

So, what are your guys hopes for some 3rd party Mii costumes? (assuming Miis come back)

I know that there's no possible way for Neku from The World Ends With You to get in smash, but if we can get a Mii costume and a couple songs from the game it would really excite me.

I have some hope for Dr. Eggman being able to get into Smash as a proper newcomer, but if I can't have that I'd be all for a Mii costume of him.

 

[Icedragonadam]

If Koei Tecmo gets a rep, then someone like Kasumi.

For Namco, I wouldn't mind mii costumes for Yuri Lowell, Luke Fon Fabre etc.

 

[Hinata]

Only Mii costume I need is that cute cardigan/skirt combo Nikki wears.

Oh man, Swapnote deserved better than what it got. But that would be an adorable Mii costume, I agree.

 

[monadoboy]

I really don't like the idea of giving her Ice Mirror to be honest. If it were inheritable I'd take less of an issue with it, but considering its Fjorm's signature special, it just feels kinda wrong giving it to Lucina.

It just reminds me too much of when people were advocating having Little Mac use the other boxers' signature techniques, like the Bull Charge or Aran Ryan's rope glove. :/

Yeah, I wasn't convinced of it, but I want something from Heroes. The game is pretty big. Maybe change it to Distant Counter, and have it be a reflector/counter hybrid, or something.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

That's definitely true, you just can't add a character that's game mechanic is it's inability to jump into smash.

That's not his game mechanic in Smash.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

Since we've recently done the whole shrink the roster to thirty characters thing, I have to ask, how would people feel about the roster actually not being much bigger than that, but every character has two completely different move sets?

So when picking Wario for example you have to choose between Wario Ware Wario or Wario Land Wario.

Link/Botw Link
Mario/Cappy Mario
Kirby/Different abilities Incorporated into his moveset kirby
Captain Falcon Ganondorf/Magic and swords Ganondorf
Toon Link/Deku leaf and other stuff Toon Link
etc.

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, I wasn't convinced of it, but I want something from Heroes. The game is pretty big. Maybe change it to Distant Counter, and have it be a reflector/counter hybrid, or something.

If you want to add something Heroes-exclusive, having her use Geirskögul for some of her moves would be really fitting.

 

[Ridel]

So, what are your guys hopes for some 3rd party Mii costumes? (assuming Miis come back)

I know that there's no possible way for Neku from The World Ends With You to get in smash, but if we can get a Mii costume and a couple songs from the game it would really excite me.

Look at my signature....any of those will do.

 

[FlareHabanero]

So, what are your guys hopes for some 3rd party Mii costumes? (assuming Miis come back)

A lot of costumes I would want are basically stuff referencing SEGA properties, like how there's the Akira costume in 3DS/Wii U.

For example, references to Kazama Kiryu, Beat, NiGHTS, Arle Nadja, Harrier, and Opa-Opa.

 

[A Distant Demon]

So, what are your guys hopes for some 3rd party Mii costumes? (assuming Miis come back)

I know that there's no possible way for Neku from The World Ends With You to get in smash, but if we can get a Mii costume and a couple songs from the game it would really excite me.

Tifa for Brawler
barret for gunner
Sephiroth for swordsman

 

[Starcutter]

Tifa for Brawler
barret for gunner
Sephiroth for swordsman

I could probably see Sephiroth happening.