Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MoonlitIllusion]

Do Aegislash and Blastoise not exist?

weren't they added as dlc after? unless I'm forgetting something wasn't decidueye the only new character in the base game? and besides he's still the only gen 7 pokemon

Hypothetically, is there anything actually stopping them from adding Captain Toad and just having him unable to jump and unable to recover if knocked offstage? Not that that's the most reasonable way to go about it, but it's possible, right?

I mean I guess but that would make a terrible character lol

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

But in his games he physically can't lift himself off of the ground, him not jumping is a massive game mechanic, I just can't see it working

So have his jump be something else propelling him off the ground? A spring appears beneath him, his backpack becomes a jetpack, a bird carries him upward, etc. You are disqualifying a character based on a non-issue that, even if it was an issue, is very easy to solve.

 

[vaanrose]

What about his DK 64 voice?

First thing I do when modding starts up is give DK his Grant Kirkhope voice, but that'd never, ever happen in a real game. We're long past the days of DK being a 90s Surfer Bro.

 

[Starcutter]

But sakurai likes to represent a character and their games as closely as possible. Bayonetta's clothes may come off and mario characters can't double jump in their games but having them do that in smash doesn't completely contradict their entire character and the gameplay of their home series.

Also he can't jump, I'm pretty sure pressing the jump button will have him try to jump but it won't work.

Oh sorry, didn't realize sakurai told you Toad isn't getting in smash because he can't jump.

Never realized anyone on here had such a relationship with the man.



In all honesty, Sakurai is likelier to give Capitan Toad crummy jumps than to not include him just based off that factor alone. Maybe the backpack isn't as heavy in smash? Who knows.

Only sakurai himself knows how he feels about Capitan Toad.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Do Aegislash and Blastoise not exist?

Maybe the person meant the only Gen VII Pokemon?

But yeah, good point.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

So have his jump be something else propelling him off the ground? A spring appears beneath him, his backpack becomes a jetpack, a bird carries him upward, etc. You are disqualifying a character based on a non-issue that, even if it was an issue, is very easy to solve.

But captain toad can't just summon a spring and he doesn't have a jetpack, having a bird appear just so he can jump would just be weird. I can't see a way to properly justify him working as a character. And once again, his games are about him not being able to jump, how can you represent his games properly if you make him jump?

 

[Hinata]

But captain toad can't just summon a spring and he doesn't have a jetpack, having a bird appear just so he can jump would just be weird. I can't see a way to properly justify him working as a character. And once again, his games are about him not being able to jump, how can you represent his games properly if you make him jump?

Your argument makes no sense. If Sakurai wanted him in this game, he'd find a way for him to ****in' jump. Hell, he'd probably just make Captain Toad able to jump regardless. Remember all those sick jumps the Wii Fit Trainer did in her home game? Oh, man, who could forget the Villager's ability to catch some sick air whenever he pleased?

There's no point to this argument. You're over here seriously arguing that a character won't get in over something as trivial as jumping?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Honestly?

I would laugh my *** off.
Because I could actually see it happen given Rowlet's overwhelming popularity.

And yet I rarely see him discussed as a possible candidate either in here or even in places like YouTube.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

They could easily just say "he packed lighter" in his trophy description if they really needed a reason as to why Captain Toad jumps in Smash.

It is literally a non-issue with several ways to fix it.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Your argument makes no sense. If Sakurai wanted him in this game, he'd find a way for him to ****in' jump. Hell, he'd probably just make Captain Toad able to jump regardless. Remember all those sick jumps the Wii Fit Trainer did in her home game? Oh, man, who could forget the Villager's ability to catch some sick air whenever he pleased?

There's no point to this argument. You're over here seriously arguing that a character won't get in over something as trivial as jumping?

That's literally not comparable, wii fit trainer and villager could always jump if they want to, captain toad's defining trait is that he CAN'T jump. And yes jumping is an important thing in smash, a character kinda needs the ability to do it. Just cause we don't see villager jumping in his games it doesn't mean he can't lol, but that's obviously not the point of his games so we don't see him doing it.

They could easily just say "he packed lighter" in his trophy description if they really needed a reason as to why Captain Toad jumps in Smash.

It is literally a non-issue with several ways to fix it.

But that comes at the cost of misrepresenting his games which I imagine sakurai wouldn't want to do.

 

[Zerp]

Random idea I just had about Captain Toad: What if Captain Toad had to take off his backpack to jump, which would lock away access to his tools and make most of his moveset laughably weak, until the backpack respawns like ten or seconds later? Good idea? Bad idea?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They could easily just say "he packed lighter" in his trophy description if they really needed a reason as to why Captain Toad jumps in Smash.

It is literally a non-issue with several ways to fix it.

Pretty much. The idea is to not throw in weird ways for it to work. Stuff like a bird picking him up for a jump is awkward and would make his actual aerial attacks even more awkward. Crappy jumps is reasonable. His Up B has multiple options(like being shot out of a Cannon).

While I do consider the inability to jump extremely essential to the character, it likely won't be that big of a deal to keep him out. More likely, if he isn't in, it might be moveset issues Sakurai has.

 

[Opossum]

Has anybody brought up changing up character voices? I really want Bowser to sound like Bowser.

Give. Marth. His. English. Voice.

I mean we're at the point where Marth has had an English international voice more often than he's been stuck with a Japanese voice (Code Name S.T.E.A.M., Fates, Heroes, Warriors vs Melee, Brawl, Smash4). To hell with "tradition," I want Marth to be properly represented.


...I just have strong feelings on the matter is all.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Captain Toad cant jump again? Damn i didnt think we would go bavk to the thing discussed most after complaining about things to talk about.


So. . .opinions on Sylux? They're a rising character and probably is going to be having some big roles soon after being hinted at for years.


IMO, probably not happening other than mayyyybe late DLC. We still dont have footage of Prime 4 so jt probably isnt far enough in development that Sakurai would have any data on them. And we probably dont have enough from what little they have done so far.

How about you?

 

[RouffWestie]

But captain toad can't just summon a spring and he doesn't have a jetpack, having a bird appear just so he can jump would just be weird. I can't see a way to properly justify him working as a character. And once again, his games are about him not being able to jump, how can you represent his games properly if you make him jump?

You'll honestly just have to wait and see if Sakurai has anything to say on Captain Toad in the future. Maybe he won't get in, and someone will bring him up in an interview, and we'll learn that Sakurai actually agrees with you 100%. But if he actually does end up being a newcomer, I really really hope it gives you a new perspective on what creative liberties the developers are willing to take to make certain characters work in Smash. R.O.B. was enough for many of us back during Brawl's days.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

But that comes at the cost of misrepresenting his games which I imagine sakurai wouldn't want to do.

How the **** is that misrepresenting him? In the scenario, Sakurai knows Captain Toad can't jump as is, so he makes the backpack lighter so he can jump, as seen in the trophy description. What issue is there?

And before you say Sakurai won't change things about characters like that or, for lack of a better term, add canon to the characters, Smash 4 stated that Dark Pit joined the Forces of Nature after the events of Kid Icarus: Uprising.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Captain Toad cant jump again? Damn i didnt think we would go bavk to the thing discussed most after complaining about things to talk about.


So. . .opinions on Sylux? They're a rising character and probably is going to be having some big roles soon after being hinted at for years.


IMO, probably not happening other than mayyyybe late DLC. We still dont have footage of Prime 4 so jt probably isnt far enough in development that Sakurai would have any data on them. And we probably dont have enough from what little they have done so far.

How about you?

Yeah, WAY too early for him. I mean he could ask the developers for concept art and footage and stuff but making characters from games that don't exist yet isn't the best way to go about including characters. Smash has always represented the last generation of games, not the current one anyway

How the **** is that misrepresenting him? In the scenario, Sakurai knows Captain Toad can't jump as is, so he makes the backpack lighter so he can jump, as seen in the trophy description. What issue is there?

And before you say Sakurai won't change things about characters like that or, for lack of a better term, add canon to the characters, Smash 4 stated that Dark Pit joined the Forces of Nature after the events of Kid Icarus: Uprising.

Because a major defining trait of his games is that it's a puzzle-platformer where you can't jump, that's the whole point of the games

 

[Hinata]

Captain Toad cant jump again? Damn i didnt think we would go bavk to the thing discussed most after complaining about things to talk about.


So. . .opinions on Sylux? They're a rising character and probably is going to be having some big roles soon after being hinted at for years.


IMO, probably not happening other than mayyyybe late DLC. We still dont have footage of Prime 4 so jt probably isnt far enough in development that Sakurai would have any data on them. And we probably dont have enough from what little they have done so far.

How about you?

I see Dark Samus talked about more than Sylux. I saw a video earlier talking about how Dark Samus seems likely because we got Metroid Prime 4 on the horizon, and Dark Samus is the "reincarnation of the Metroid Prime entity".

Then again, I have no idea who Sylux is, so I dunno what their chances look like in comparison to any other Metroid rep.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I see Dark Samus talked about more than Sylux. I saw a video earlier talking about how Dark Samus seems likely because we got Metroid Prime 4 on the horizon, and Dark Samus is the "reincarnation of the Metroid Prime entity".

Then again, I have no idea who Sylux is, so I dunno what their chances look like in comparison to any other Metroid rep.

Dark Samus is like super dead though. I havent actually finished prime 3 but everyone says there is basically a 0% chance DS is ever seen in any Metroid game again like P4.

TBH i dont think we're seeing DS either unfortunately

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I see Dark Samus talked about more than Sylux. I saw a video earlier talking about how Dark Samus seems likely because we got Metroid Prime 4 on the horizon, and Dark Samus is the "reincarnation of the Metroid Prime entity".

Then again, I have no idea who Sylux is, so I dunno what their chances look like in comparison to any other Metroid rep.

Didn't dark samus die tho? Could still happen but them probably never appearing in the series again probably hurts their chance. Or they'll come back in 4 again somehow who knows

 

[vaanrose]

I just want Captain Toad to pull from all the games Toad has been playable in. I'd love if his jumping worked like in Doki Doki Mario Bros, where you can crouch first to charge the jump for extra height.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I just want Captain Toad to pull from all the games Toad has been playable in. I'd love if his jumping worked like in Doki Doki Mario Bros, where you can crouch first to charge the jump for extra height.

Honestly toad probably has a better chance than captain toad, he was playable in 3D World and NSMB and there's just a whole lot to pull from

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Because a major defining trait of his games is that it's a puzzle-platformer where you can't jump, that's the whole point of the games

Ah, so it's a character trait of his then?

Then explain Sonic being able to swim. Or Charizard not dying in the water, when his flame should be put out?

Liberties need to be taken, and have been taken, so a character can be put in Smash. If Sakurai wants to make Captain Toad playable, he will make him jump. Stripping a character of a basic mechanic like jumping is about the same as stripping them of the ability to shield, or walk, or heck even attack.

 

[Hinata]

Dark Samus is like super dead though. I havent actually finished prime 3 but everyone says there is basically a 0% chance DS is ever seen in any Metroid game again like P4.

Didn't dark samus die tho? Could still happen but them probably never appearing in the series again probably hurts their chance. Or they'll come back in 4 again somehow who knows

I see your point, and I agree that the character being unable to appear in their series again hurts their chances considerably.

However, to play devil's advocate, that didn't stop Dark Samus from appearing as an Assist Trophy, so it probably wouldn't stop her from appearing as a playable character if Sakurai really wanted it, either.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Ah, so it's a character trait of his then?

Then explain Sonic being able to swim. Or Charizard not dying in the water, when his flame should be put out?

Liberties need to be taken, and have been taken, so a character can be put in Smash. If Sakurai wants to make Captain Toad playable, he will make him jump. Stripping a character of a basic mechanic like jumping is about the same as stripping them of the ability to shield, or walk, or heck even attack.

But something as insignificant as swimming doesn't really matter, Jumping is kind of like extremely majorly important in smash

 

[Zero Suit Wario]

You know, Captain Toad originated in Mario Galaxy and has made several cameos since then (Mario Odyssey). I know the brigade has the Starshroom ships, but considering all the places you are able to find Captain Toad, there's pretty much no way he would be able to get around without jumping.

His inability to jump is much more of a one-off game mechanic than a character-defining trait. Kinda silly that this is even a topic of discussion

 

[Deleted member]

weren't they added as dlc after? unless I'm forgetting something wasn't decidueye the only new character in the base game?

The point is, Decidueye isn't the "only" new Pokémon for DX.
But even without the DLC in account, that doesn't mean quite as much as you think it does.

It wasn't a matter of they went out of their way to promote Decidueye through Pokken DX.
Rather, it's clear they were going to promote Sun and Moon with Pokken DX using the Starters, considering that a Litten/Popplio Support Set was added along with Decidueye.

So really, it was down to three options.
Decidueye with Litten/Popplio Support
Incineroar with Rowlet/Popplio Support
Primarina with Rowlet/Litten Support

And of those three options, they went with the first. Why?
Primarina, for starters, would have been too difficult to work with. So that option's out right off the bat.
And between the other two, they clearly went with Decidueye because it was the less obvious (and thus more enticing) option for Pokken's fighting system.

And yet I rarely see him discussed as a possible candidate either in here or even in places like YouTube.

Because it's not the fully evolved Grass Starter and people can't fathom any non-fully evolved Pokémon being included in anything these days unless it's Pikachu (or Jigglypuff, in the case of Smash).

 

[Opossum]

But something as insignificant as swimming doesn't really matter, Jumping is kind of like extremely majorly important in smash

Which is all the more reason Captain Toad would be able to jump.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Which is all the more reason Captain Toad would be able to jump.

Which is all the more reason he probably wouldn't work

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

But something as insignificant as swimming doesn't really matter, Jumping is kind of like extremely majorly important in smash

Which is why Captain Toad will jump if he is in Smash.

 

[Opossum]

Which is all the more reason he probably wouldn't work

Just have the trophy make note of the fact that he packed light, samurai did the same to explain how Ness and Lucas learned PSI moves they never were able to use. And this way, Sakurai acknowledges the source material, but works around it to get a workable Smash character. Problem solved.

It's not disrespecting the source material. Disrespecting it would be if he were a phenomenal jumper. He'll just have bad jumps and a note on his trophy, then bam. He works.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Which is why Captain Toad will jump if he is in Smash.

Which is why they probably won't include a character that literally can't jump, especially when candidates like Paper Mario exist anyway

 

[Lyndis_]

Captain Toad's inability to jump rather than a hindrance, is an opportunity to many unique moveset designs if you ask me. Whether to mostly get around the issue or to counteract it, they all give him a unique playstyle unlike other characters and a reason to be included.

It would be part of what makes him a unique fighter, not something preventing him from being a fighter entirely. It automatically puts him in the "something only they can do" category, and the fact the most common suggestion is to remove that entirely makes me sad. It's super uncreative to just remove what makes them unique simply because it's nonconventional, in a game filled to the brim with nonconventional fighters..

A fighter with only one jump, a fighter with no jumps but another way to stay on stage, a fighter that can only jump at certain times, a fighter that needs to get around the stage using other abilities are all unique ideas that don't get in the way of him getting in the game, but ultimately give the idea of Captain Toad as a fighter more room to stand on his own.

Why should every character have to use all the same rules? That's part of what makes Smash, and in extension platform fighters in general so special.

I genuinely don't see how it would be an issue for him to get in, or something that would have to be ignored entirely, either.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Because it's not the fully evolved Grass Starter and people can't fathom any non-fully evolved Pokémon being included in anything these days unless it's Pikachu (or Jigglypuff, in the case of Smash).

Well, it helps that they included Pichu, Squirtle, and Ivysaur, so clearly people don't want to look at the facts. Being fully evolved clearly is not the most important part(though it can sometimes be important).

Ah, so it's a character trait of his then?

Then explain Sonic being able to swim. Or Charizard not dying in the water, when his flame should be put out?

Liberties need to be taken, and have been taken, so a character can be put in Smash. If Sakurai wants to make Captain Toad playable, he will make him jump. Stripping a character of a basic mechanic like jumping is about the same as stripping them of the ability to shield, or walk, or heck even attack.

Sonic can swim in Sonic X. Everybody cannot swim in Sonic 2. It's an inconsistent thing among the cast overall. It's not really a good comparison.

Charizard is a better comparison, though that was not really delved upon much in the games or anime, it's just something that's more lore than showing up in gameplay.

The problem is we don't have an actual comparable case to Captain Toad's character trait at this time. But regardless, it should be taken into account by Sakurai, though it doesn't have to keep him out. Everybody has their opinions on it. I think it's too important. Some don't. It's no big deal either way.

 

[vaanrose]

Honestly toad probably has a better chance than captain toad, he was playable in 3D World and NSMB and there's just a whole lot to pull from

I just don't see why people have such an issue with Captain Toad pulling from stuff the other Toads could do. Bowser never did the Koopaling shell spin attack, but that's his Up-B. And it works, because he's still the same species.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Because it's not the fully evolved Grass Starter and people can't fathom any non-fully evolved Pokémon being included in anything these days unless it's Pikachu (or Jigglypuff, in the case of Smash).

Nah, it's because people want the "starter triangle" of sorts to be complete with Charizard, Greninja, and Decidueye.

Which is a pretty flimsy reason to want a new rep but to each their own.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I will say. I think Captain Toad could easily fet in. Sakurai doesnt give a **** about canon and bends stuff like Rosalina being light with anti grav all the time.

Packing light is perfectly in Sakurai's MO.


But if sakurai doesnt want to do that he isnt going to "jump" with springs or cannons or anything. It's a regular jump or bust.

 

[RouffWestie]

Honestly toad probably has a better chance than captain toad, he was playable in 3D World and NSMB and there's just a whole lot to pull from

Those merits didn't get him very far the last time.

 

[Arcanir]

Captain Toad cant jump again? Damn i didnt think we would go bavk to the thing discussed most after complaining about things to talk about.


So. . .opinions on Sylux? They're a rising character and probably is going to be having some big roles soon after being hinted at for years.


IMO, probably not happening other than mayyyybe late DLC. We still dont have footage of Prime 4 so jt probably isnt far enough in development that Sakurai would have any data on them. And we probably dont have enough from what little they have done so far.

How about you?

DLC if I had to make a guess, and that may be pushing it depending on what happens with Prime 4.

My biggest issue with Sylux right now is that we're kind of putting the cart before the horse when it comes to them. We're putting the guy on a pedestal for what they're going to be, but for all the hype that is trying to be drummed up the only thing Sylux has is being among a face of many in Hunters and a couple cameos that haven't amounted to anything yet. Nothing about that really speaks to their importance as a character and putting them in now before Sylux's truly done anything just feels way too early.

 

[Deleted member]

Ah, so it's a character trait of his then?

Then explain Sonic being able to swim. Or Charizard not dying in the water, when his flame should be put out?

Who said that being in water automatically puts out a Charizard's flame?



Looks pretty ablaze here.


Fire can burn underwater.

Just has to not be oxygen-based.


As for Sonic being able to tread water and paddle forward? He does just that in the original Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games with a life jacket and that's how he participates in the swimming events.
Everyone acts like they've got an invisible floatation device on in Smash anyway.