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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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TheFirstPoppyBro

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The only reason I'd be okay with Steve is if when you KO him off the blast zone, it just plays that sound that plays when you take damage in Minecraft.

I dunno why but that sound just cracks me up.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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So is pic related a way to keep Lucina fresh and different in a possible attempt to keep her around for the next Smash? I never played FEH, but I image this version of her was created with at least some thought for Smash Bros. Do any of the other 5 FE characters in Smash have big makeovers in FEH? I also doubt shes getting cut as well. Awakening was too big of a landmark for Fire Emblem and Lucina is still pretty popular. There's also the decent chance that Smash 5 reuses Smash 4's engine meaning no 1st party cuts, and plenty of time to add major tweaks to existing characters.
This Lucina isn't really canon though. She doesn't exist outside of Heroes, so I don't think she really belongs in Smash that way. Her signature look with Falchion is probably the way she should stay, although she could use a moveset update if she stays.
 

Senselessbreak

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The only reason I'd be okay with Steve is if when you KO him off the blast zone, it just plays that sound that plays when you take damage in Minecraft.

I dunno why but that sound just cracks me up.
I'd be okay if we got the main character from Minecraft Storymode. The series surprised me, and as of recently, its one of TTs best written series. If a playable MC character were as animated and alive as the ones in storymode were I'd be okay with that. Plus they were actual characters in that game which is a plus over Steve since hes just a blank expressionless canvas.
 
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pupNapoleon

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I know we need Daisy in there to balance out the heavy Super Mario Bros. bias
I would love to give you props for the trolling... but Daisy would still be from the same original trilogy.
Which is not congruent to the point.

...which takes away all of the humor on the bottom line. Sloppy bottoms are not as pleasant.
 
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Camc10

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I'd be okay if we got the main character from Minecraft Storymode. The series surprised me, and as of recently, its one of TTs best written series. If a playable MC character were as animated and alive as the ones in storymode were I'd be okay with that. Plus they were actual characters in that game which is a plus over Steve since hes just a blank expressionless canvas.
Oh, id be okay with him/her. You just made the idea of a minecraf character seem much better in my mine.
 

Senselessbreak

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This Lucina isn't really canon though. She doesn't exist outside of Heroes, so I don't think she really belongs in Smash that way. Her signature look with Falchion is probably the way she should stay, although she could use a moveset update if she stays.
Do we really have rules against games that aren't canon for movesets in Smash. I mean do we consider Mario sports games canon, as Peach uses moves from those games. I'm sure there are other examples like this too. A question I have is who designed the art for FEH? Was it IS? Because if so maybe they have plans for that Lucina going forward.

Like I said, I avoided that title so I'm out of the loop when it comes to it.

Edit: Looking into this, it was Yusuke Kozaki for Lucina, who was the official artist for Awakening and Fates. So I'd say having the official artist update a design is something strong to consider.
 
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Nu~

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I'd like to see Pit and Dark Pit use some more items from Uprising. Just way too many of their smash attacks and moves in general are the Palutena/Silver Bow. Almost every single move is, really.

It's really boring and a little sad considering just how much there is to work with from Uprising, which Sakurai himself should obviously be aware of.


Note that these are just the base weapon types and there are tons of different weapons in each category that could function differently.
I feel the same way. Uprising was such an awesome game and a big part of the reason why it was so good is the amount of versatility you had with your weapons.

Sakurai did to him what he did to Kirby lol. Gave him the basic weapons as his specials and make his normals all based off of one weapon.


Like, Kirby fans feel your pain lol.
Kirby has endless copy abilities to draw inspiration from, yet sakurai chooses to use fighter for like every normal and specials based off of THE VERY FIRST ABILITIES introduced to the series :mad088:

Even Meta Knight has far more to draw from. You got elemental attacks from squeak squad, sword beams, that enormous tornado he can summon from his sword, that signature sword dive he uses in every game (its minor, I know...but...I love that move. Maybe it’s the nostalgia)
 
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Bradli Wartooth

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Do we really have rules against games that aren't canon for movesets in Smash. I mean do we consider Mario sports games canon, as Peach uses moves from those games. I'm sure there are other examples like this too. A question I have is who designed the art for FEH? Was it IS? Because if so maybe they have plans for that Lucina going forward.

Like I said, I avoided that title so I'm out of the loop when it comes to it.

Edit: Looking into this, it was Yusuke Kozaki for Lucina, who was the official artiest for Awakening and Fates. So I'd say having the official artist update a design is something strong to consider.
I mean there aren't rules set in stone for an awful lot of aspects of Smash characters. That being said, I don't think we've ever had a character appear in a non-canon way, and I don't see Lucina being the first. Especially considering she's the face of modern Fire Emblem. Changing to that would make her look a lot different, and also not use her signature Falchion. I'll wholeheartedly disagree the idea that one should consider this very possible, if possible at all. No character has ever appeared in a non-canon look with a non-canon weapon, especially when they have an option directly related to them.
 

pupNapoleon

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The Pits do need a buff, though. Their hitboxes are actually smaller than they appear in Smash 4.

The Pits just needs... "more" in Smash for Switch. I am not saying the Pits are low tiers, the Pits are just bland mid tier. The Pits are the most underwhelming characters in Smash 4. Also that recovery can be changed I guess, but I do not know either.

I can see why Steve is likely, but Sans... I do not know.
Steve is a megaton Microsoft character. If we are getting a Microsoft, it is Steve for sure. Steve is something a lot of young children love, and he is family friendly. :p
1) Pits don't need more for Switch. Pit should eat Dark Pit and get his strength. I'm sure there is plenty of Yaoi art already satisfying this prediction.

2) Steve. Glorious Steve. Reminds us all of Legos. An insanely popular toy.
It could in theory be nice just to get characters that utilize classic toys. From the hoola hoops and yo yos, to the etch a sketch's and slinky's. Lincoln Logs and Tinker Toys. Oh.... this would be lovely.
 
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1) Pits don't need more for Switch. Pit should eat Dark Pit and get his strength. I'm sure there is plenty of Yaoi art already satisfying this prediction.

2) Steve. Glorious Steve. Reminds us all of Legos. An insanely popular toy.
It could in theory be nice just to get characters that utilize classic toys. From the hoola hoops and yo yos, to the etch a sketch's and slinky's. Lincoln Logs and Tinker Toys. Oh.... this would be lovely.
Can you stop with these actions please?
Number one is just stupid and perverted and number two is just... Steve is not based off of toys.
I do not know if you are joking or not, but enough with the perverted and random jokes please.
The only reason I'd be okay with Steve is if when you KO him off the blast zone, it just plays that sound that plays when you take damage in Minecraft.

I dunno why but that sound just cracks me up.
You mean the old "OOuf!" sound that was removed when the game was released, escaping beta? The new hurt sound is just a bone-crack noise, considering Steve is known to be mostly silent. The old "OOuf!" sound would be nice to return in Smash for Switch. Maybe they can make a new vocal for him even. :p
 

Dr. James Rustles

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I'm expecting some butthurt when Mii mains, after not even getting a legal moveset, won't even get their mains back in Smash 5.
 
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pupNapoleon

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Can you stop with these actions please?
Number one is just stupid and perverted and number two is just... Steve is not based off of toys.
I do not know if you are joking or not, but enough with the perverted and random jokes please.
I don't take kindly to homophobia around these parts, partner.
It's not perverted, and if it bothers you, perhaps you should read a book.
Other peoples' sexualities have nothing to do with you.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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I'm expecting some butthurt when Mii mains, after not even getting a legal moveset, won't even get their mains back in Smash 5.
I would imagine Miis will return. but I wouldn't be shocked if they got a massive overhaul and worked into 1 or 2 characters rather than 3 fully unique characters.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Honestly I'd rather the Miis get a moveset based on Miitopia, but that's mostly because I really enjoyed that game and it's like the only non-Wii Sports Mii game I've played.
 

pupNapoleon

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Honestly I'd rather the Miis get a moveset based on Miitopia, but that's mostly because I really enjoyed that game and it's like the only non-Wii Sports Mii game I've played.
Mii's as creation based characters makes too much sense... but I do not think it should take the spot of three characters, nor the time. Maybe just a mode?

Or in another life, you choose a Mii and it randomly choose another moveset to use. Just like Mokujin in Tekken. Or a Dopey Ditto transformation.
 

TheSpitefulWolf

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for miis just get rid of the stupid hitbox/weight differentials and bam, we golden. standardize the size of the characters and assign weight/hitbox based on mii 'class'.

boom, perfect, did it
 

Bradli Wartooth

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for miis just get rid of the stupid hitbox/weight differentials and bam, we golden. standardize the size of the characters and assign weight/hitbox based on mii 'class'.

boom, perfect, did it
Yeah I think getting rid of size differences is a huge step in the right direction for them, especially in regards to standardizing them for online/competitive play. I do also think they should have movesets based on the games they're from rather than completely original movesets, though. It was disappointing to see that they spent the time to make 3 Mii movesets + customs. This is one situation that I feel a character sort of took the time that could've been spent making a different, more interesting character. Miis are fun to play, but they lack any personality and don't carry the same level of significance as much of the Smash roster, and certainly not enough to warrant being 3 full characters.
 

Radical Bones

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I love playing as my Mii to be honest. I think I'd also like a Mii based off their own games too though so I'm cool either way.

If a custom height and weight fixes the problems, just go with that.
 

TheSpitefulWolf

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Yeah I think getting rid of size differences is a huge step in the right direction for them, especially in regards to standardizing them for online/competitive play. I do also think they should have movesets based on the games they're from rather than completely original movesets, though. It was disappointing to see that they spent the time to make 3 Mii movesets + customs. This is one situation that I feel a character sort of took the time that could've been spent making a different, more interesting character. Miis are fun to play, but they lack any personality and don't carry the same level of significance as much of the Smash roster, and certainly not enough to warrant being 3 full characters.
this soundin like someone who didn't conspire with their friends to make whole storylines in smash using miis kinda like wrestling eras.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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I love playing as my Mii to be honest. I think I'd also like a Mii based off their own games too though so I'm cool either way.

If a custom height and weight fixes the problems, just go with that.
I really like playing them too, honestly. I think their movement feels smooth and their animations/sounds are satisfying. That being said, I'd rather have one Mii based on their most prominent games and then 2 other characters, because the only thing Miis needed less work on than a full character was making a model.

this soundin like someone who didn't conspire with their friends to make whole storylines in smash using miis kinda like wrestling eras.
Well you certainly aren't wrong, my friend.
 
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Hotfeet444

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Woah, has it really been 3 years since I've been on this site? God, now I just feel old.

Honestly I'd rather the Miis get a moveset based on Miitopia, but that's mostly because I really enjoyed that game and it's like the only non-Wii Sports Mii game I've played.
Why not think outside the box a bit? Instead of basing the moveset around the Miis and what they do in exclusive Mii titles, why not design Miis around an actual moveset idea? Something like the Nintendo Labo for example?

It's clear that, despite Nintendo claiming that they're going to keep Labo marketing separate from that of their main Switch titles, Labo is going to find a reasonable amount of success, and the endless amount of moveset potential is certainly enticing. Design the Labo character to have three different styles of play, all with the Mii in control (Seeing as these things are to be controlled by real-world people and Miis are literally designed to be self-inserts). One could be a brawling style based on the backpack, the second could be more projectile based, using things like Tiny Labomen to attack enemy players (Or even using a huge Switch Joycon yourself) and the last could be based on controlling Labo-based objects, like a Motorbike or literally dropping a house on someone. One thing's for sure though...that Robot would have to be the Final Smash.
 
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Senselessbreak

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Miis are the face of Nintendos most successful console ever. Cutting them would be like cutting Mario or Pikachu at this point. Hell, Wii Sports is considered Nintendos #1 best selling game of all time. They aren't going anywhere. They might get scaled back, but people who think they are getting cut are smoking something. Plus we still don't even know if 1st party cuts are happening since we don't know how much of the title will borrow assets from Smash Wii U (rumors seem to indicate it will).

Also keep in mind the Mii costumes made Nintendo a lot of money. Theres no way they wouldn't prioritize their return for a reason like that.
 

TheSpitefulWolf

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take my mii gunner from my cold dead hands

which will be hard because they will be holding your beating heart for daring to try
 

Hotfeet444

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Maybe designing a set of three brand new ways to play is a tad too much. Perhaps it'd be best if a Labo-based playstyle was added onto the three current styles of Miis? I mean, it'd be a new way to play while promoting something new, but the Miis themselves are also in need of some sort of streamlining (At least something that would actually allow them to be legal)

The Miis themselves are such a fickle thing that the more I look at it, the more I see them not changing whatsoever as any sort of change would most likely be regarded as "restricting creative freedom".
 

Retroend

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isnt banjo kazooie a microsoft character? if so why not have him in smash instead of steve?
 

Senselessbreak

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isnt banjo kazooie a microsoft character? if so why not have him in smash instead of steve?
In terms of Nintendo fan popularity, Banjo is the clear winner and would fit well in Smash. Minecraft however sold over 140 million copies and still has an active player base of 70 million users so its casual appeal is massive.

I could see it going either way, but I hope its Banjo.
 
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Danpal65

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isnt banjo kazooie a microsoft character? if so why not have him in smash instead of steve?
While I would have loved to see Banjo and Kazooie appear in Smash, especially during the Melee and Brawl days, I think it has gone well beyond their time to appear. Microsoft has not done anything new to bring the bear and bird back into the spotlight to make them a favourable consideration, really having only dragged their name through the dirt along with Conker. I get that they were a huge part of the N64 period, I loved both games and play them still now, but I unfortunately just do not see the value in bringing them back, especially since Microsoft would be the ones to mostly profit it off it as any new purchases of their games would be on the Xbox (*shudder) and would only be helping them make a new game, it is not really a priority for Nintendo.

I have seen that Phil Spencer would be a-ok wit them appearing, and props to him for being a cool guy with that, but honestly I think Banjo and Kazooie on a Nintendo console, including Smash is something that will have to be left as a what could have been... :urg:
 
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NintenRob

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We already have Wii Fit Trainer to represent the Wii era if that's even needed and Miis were not added to Smash because they were iconic, they were added because of the customization. They are tied to it, they don't have a regular spot on the roster and weren't even allowed online. If customization doesn't return then I see the Mii getting the axe.

Doesn't help they were a poorly implemented Trio character, and we all know what happened to the last one.
 

Swamp Sensei

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For the love of...

Wii Fit Trainer specifically comes from Wii Fit. Their stage has nothing but Wii Fit stuff. Same with their trophies.

Miis are different and are honorary Smash characters.

They can't somehow fill the same niche.
 

NintenRob

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At least Wii Fit Trainer actually represent something. Miis are treated like Smash Bros original characters and are nothing but avatar characters. They're not tied to the Wii Sports series or Tomadachi Life. They're just there to be your customizable avatar. An avatar who has been appearing in less and less roster games. They're only Switch game so far is a port of an old Wii U game. They weren't in the Mario Tennis Ultra Smash or Sport Superstar. They're nothing but a stand in for yourself and other characters which is exactly how they're treated.

They've been appearing less and less and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they're cut.
 

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While I would have loved to see Banjo and Kazooie appear in Smash, especially during the Melee and Brawl days, I think it has gone well beyond their time to appear. Microsoft has not done anything new to bring the bear and bird back into the spotlight to make them a favourable consideration, really having only dragged their name through the dirt along with Conker. I get that they were a huge part of the N64 period, I loved both games and play them still now, but I unfortunately just do not see the value in bringing them back, especially since Microsoft would be the ones to mostly profit it off it as any new purchases of their games would be on the Xbox (*shudder) and would only be helping them make a new game, it is not really a priority for Nintendo.

I have seen that Phil Spencer would be a-ok wit them appearing, and props to him for being a cool guy with that, but honestly I think Banjo and Kazooie on a Nintendo console, including Smash is something that will have to be left as a what could have been... :urg:
I am fairly certain the sheer amount of people purchasing the DLC would more than make up for it... Just like literally every other third-party character that was not on the base roster. That is sort of the point.

In terms of Nintendo fan popularity, Banjo is the clear winner and would fit well in Smash. Minecraft however sold over 140 million copies and still has an active player base of 70 million users so its casual appeal is massive.

I could see it going either way, but I hope its Banjo.
To be completely fair, Minecraft sales do not necessarily translate to "Steve" being popular. I am sure that there are plenty of people out there, but the 70-140 million figure is grossly hyper-inflated. It might actually be better to just have a Minecraft stage or something much more recognizable.

Beyond that, if they approach Microsoft and do not have Banjo, it is probably going to be for Master Chief. An actual gaming icon.
 

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At least Wii Fit Trainer actually represent something. Miis are treated like Smash Bros original characters and are nothing but avatar characters. They're not tied to the Wii Sports series or Tomadachi Life. They're just there to be your customizable avatar. An avatar who has been appearing in less and less roster games. They're only Switch game so far is a port of an old Wii U game. They weren't in the Mario Tennis Ultra Smash or Sport Superstar. They're nothing but a stand in for yourself and other characters which is exactly how they're treated.

They've been appearing less and less and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they're cut.
A poor thought process, the Miis were the Wii's flagship characters and are extremely recognizable. They were also there for the 3DS, being the main focus for Spotpass. Lack of current relevancy is NOT a factor in Smash :4duckhunt::4falcon::4littlemac::4lucas::4ness::4olimar::4pit::4palutena::4wiifit::4darkpit::4rob::4gaw: with the Mii's last game debuting in 2017 (2016 for Japan), theyre not exactly dead yet.
 

Morbi

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A poor thought process, the Miis were the Wii's flagship characters and are extremely recognizable. They were also there for the 3DS, being the main focus for Spotpass. Lack of current relevancy is NOT a factor in Smash :4duckhunt::4falcon::4littlemac::4lucas::4ness::4olimar::4pit::4palutena::4wiifit::4darkpit::4rob::4gaw: with the Mii's last game debuting in 2017 (2016 for Japan), theyre not exactly dead yet.
Kid Icarus Uprising, a game Mashpotato Samurai was working on prior to Smash, literally pushed three of those to the forefront. Beyond that, Ness and Captain Falcon were much more relevant around Smash 64 (the same with Lucas for Brawl)... Which was their debut game, by the way. Pikmin 2 was out about a year before development began for Brawl as well. And beyond that, yes, a retro character does not need to be relevant (despite Mac's 09 appearance and assist trophy upgrade), bravo for understanding the purpose of including them.

The only one where you might have a point is Wii Fit, who I would argue was not even a character until Sack of Rice made him/her/it one.
 

Danpal65

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I think, in regards to the Mii Fighter character, what needs to be done is to create a singular, succinct character that draws from the various Mii related games and media to be the representative for Miis/Wii(U). They could draw attacks from Miitopia, Tomodatchi Life, Sport/Resort and NintendoLand. There is a whole stack of source material for them to create an actual character that has your Mii's face and that would be balanced for use competitively.

Kid Icarus Uprising, a game Mashpotato Samurai was working on prior to Smash, literally pushed three of those to the forefront. Beyond that, Ness and Captain Falcon were much more relevant around Smash 64 (the same with Lucas for Brawl)... Which was their debut game, by the way. Pikmin 2 was out about a year before development began for Brawl as well. And beyond that, yes, a retro character does not need to be relevant (despite Mac's 09 appearance and assist trophy upgrade), bravo for understanding the purpose of including them.

The only one where you might have a point is Wii Fit, who I would argue was not even a character until Sack of Rice made him/her/it one.
I think the point he was making was that the characters he listed no longer necessarily have the relevance they did when they were introduced just like the Mii fighters. They were certainly relevant when they were introduced, but may not been seen so much in the current climate.
 
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Morbi

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I think, in regards to the Mii Fighter character, what needs to be done is to create a singular, succinct character that draws from the various Mii related games and media to be the representative for Miis/Wii(U). They could draw attacks from Miitopia, Tomodatchi Life, Sport/Resort and NintendoLand. There is a whole stack of source material for them to create an actual character that has your Mii's face and that would be balanced for use competitively.
That is more or less what I would consider to be ideal. I do not want any more development time wasted on them, but having an actual identity would help establish their presence on the roster. I know that somewhat defeats the purpose of Mii Fighters, but it just creates too many complications and three boring move-sets rather than one move-set that fans of the character can actually appreciate. So even if it means less customization, I just want the character to be practical and for fans of the character to actually be able to use them.
 

Danpal65

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That is more or less what I would consider to be ideal. I do not want any more development time wasted on them, but having an actual identity would help establish their presence on the roster. I know that somewhat defeats the purpose of Mii Fighters, but it just creates too many complications and three boring move-sets rather than one move-set that fans of the character can actually appreciate. So even if it means less customization, I just want the character to be practical and for fans of the character to actually be able to use them.
Agreed. It does not quite reflect the customisable nature of Miis, but, it does act pretty much how most games that used them do by going, "Hey, look! Your character's face is on this generic body doing cool stuff with Mario and other game characters. How cool is that?!"
 

TheSpitefulWolf

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
254
That is more or less what I would consider to be ideal. I do not want any more development time wasted on them, but having an actual identity would help establish their presence on the roster. I know that somewhat defeats the purpose of Mii Fighters, but it just creates too many complications and three boring move-sets rather than one move-set that fans of the character can actually appreciate. So even if it means less customization, I just want the character to be practical and for fans of the character to actually be able to use them.
does that moveset include the rocket uppercut from mii gunner?

no?

there's the door.

EY SO I QUOTED THE WRONG DUDER WELP
 
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Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
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isnt banjo kazooie a microsoft character? if so why not have him in smash instead of steve?
Funny enough I made a post about my thoughts on Banjo's chances last night
Banjo is a stupid ****ing character from a dead franchise that people often forget has more than 3 games and if Nintendo were willing to work with one of their major competitors they wouldn't use someone who wouldn't draw in any potential buyers at all. Anyone who thinks Banjo has a shot will GET shot by a nerf gun if they keep pretending that Phil Spencer saying he'd like to see one of Microsoft's competitors heavily advertise a Microsoft IP means anything
 
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