Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[LetterO]

hey i leveled up every spirit in the game to 99 and made this

https://pastebin.com/qe0UPaPN

now you all can argue about how strong your favorite characters are

Chunky Kong is stronger than Giga Bowser

 

[Wademan94]

"sonic boom",

“SAVE THE PLANET FROM DISASTER!!!”

 

[Zinith]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is "Superstar Baby Mario?" I guess I'm not familiar with that iteration.

It means he's invincible

 

[Will]

“SAVE THE PLANET FROM DISASTER!!!”

yeah ok mr sonic fan im about to head out

 

[Noipoi]

Chunky Kong is stronger than Giga Bowser

He's one Hell of a guy.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Does anyone know the lyrics for the new
F-ZERO Medley yet?
Some weird Engrish there.

Not official but two interpretations posted in the comments for the video.

Spoiler

F-ZERO! He steps right out on the dangerous track, Stunning skyscrapers ready to bury his path, Endless eyes from the seeing gazers, Silent, impressive, going as fast as a valiant horse! For the first to win the crimson track, The Silent city never fades a way into darkness, Cunning to take out the run kinetic energy, Sonic booms right through the rest of the scenery, Flashing light, worlds asleep, From the left to the right let me first fighting you (pronounced yo?), Who lets you do the fighting that we need to burst right through the, Go toward the promise to rock and roll! The king’s majesty brokering the silk city, Dwarf enemies ride the wind with no pity, Once more the sea spread itself through before us, Cowering the monsters the heavens up above, The rider hop on the burning horizon, The monsters of F-zero warp into real, Fine don’t let it but don’t let them up at the speed of sound, Passing on the power far the father we go Granted by the gods F-ZERO

Spoiler

He steps right out on the dangerous track, Stunning skyscrapers lining the perilous path, Endless, flies above the seas and deserts, Silent, impressive, going as fast as a valiant horse! For the first to win the queen's distress, Silent city that fades away into darkness, Certain to taste fevered kinetic energy, Sonic booms rip through the rest of the scenery, Flashing light, worlds asleep, From the left to the right let me first fighting you (pronounced yo?), Who lets you do the fighting that we need to burst right through the, Go toward the promise to rock and roll! The king’s majesty brokering (Possibly Broken In) the silk city, Dwarfing enemies ride the wind with no pity, Once more the sea spreads itself before us, Cowering the monsters, the heavens up above, The rider upon the burning horizon, The monsters of F-zero warp into real, Fight to the ending, but don’t let up at the speed of sound, Passing on the power, grasping at the power Granted by the gods F-ZERO

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

It means he's invincible

Oh duh, that makes sense. Forgot what superstars were somehow...

 

[Wademan94]

yeah ok mr sonic fan im about to head out

Come on I had to, I figured everyone else was gonna reference Guile.

 

[Will]

The monsters of F-zero warp into real, Fight to the ending, but don’t let up at the speed of sound, Passing on the power, grasping at the power Granted by the gods F-ZERO

Monsters? Gods?

Come on I had to, I figured everyone else was gonna reference Guile.

and it was the correct one for a reason

 

[---]

hey i leveled up every spirit in the game to 99 and made this

https://pastebin.com/qe0UPaPN

now you all can argue about how strong your favorite characters are

I'm curious to how slots & abilities compare. Several of the Legends with 3 Slots are in the 80s.

 

[Wademan94]

While on the subject, I just wanted to take a moment to plug this kickass instrumental cover:

Don’t bother searching the version of this one with lyrics, the singer kinda ruins it to be honest.

 

[Will]

I can maybe get the Gods part because of GX but I don't got a clue what monsters is referring to.

Unless Daytona USA man is racist against aliens, the closest I can think of is Black Shadow.

 

[Opossum]

Not official but two interpretations posted in the comments for the video.

Spoiler

F-ZERO! He steps right out on the dangerous track, Stunning skyscrapers ready to bury his path, Endless eyes from the seeing gazers, Silent, impressive, going as fast as a valiant horse! For the first to win the crimson track, The Silent city never fades a way into darkness, Cunning to take out the run kinetic energy, Sonic booms right through the rest of the scenery, Flashing light, worlds asleep, From the left to the right let me first fighting you (pronounced yo?), Who lets you do the fighting that we need to burst right through the, Go toward the promise to rock and roll! The king’s majesty brokering the silk city, Dwarf enemies ride the wind with no pity, Once more the sea spread itself through before us, Cowering the monsters the heavens up above, The rider hop on the burning horizon, The monsters of F-zero warp into real, Fine don’t let it but don’t let them up at the speed of sound, Passing on the power far the father we go Granted by the gods F-ZERO

Spoiler

He steps right out on the dangerous track, Stunning skyscrapers lining the perilous path, Endless, flies above the seas and deserts, Silent, impressive, going as fast as a valiant horse! For the first to win the queen's distress, Silent city that fades away into darkness, Certain to taste fevered kinetic energy, Sonic booms rip through the rest of the scenery, Flashing light, worlds asleep, From the left to the right let me first fighting you (pronounced yo?), Who lets you do the fighting that we need to burst right through the, Go toward the promise to rock and roll! The king’s majesty brokering (Possibly Broken In) the silk city, Dwarfing enemies ride the wind with no pity, Once more the sea spreads itself before us, Cowering the monsters, the heavens up above, The rider upon the burning horizon, The monsters of F-zero warp into real, Fight to the ending, but don’t let up at the speed of sound, Passing on the power, grasping at the power Granted by the gods F-ZERO

This is Let's Fighting Love tier Engrish at times.

 

[Deleted member]

Elise for Smash 6

Her Final Smash is crying, releasing Iblis.

Her victory animation is kissing a dead Sonic back to life.

hey i leveled up every spirit in the game to 99 and made this

https://pastebin.com/qe0UPaPN

now you all can argue about how strong your favorite characters are

Shovel Knight - Ace - 8933
Shantae - Ace - 8413

This ain’t it chief

Can we just take a moment to appreciate the fact that Dan Hibiki is less powerful than the literal ten-year-old child versions of Alm and Celica who, at that point, have no combat training?

I think I know the reason why....

 

[Deleted member]

R. Mika for Smash DLC

 

[Will]

This is Let's Fighting Love tier Engrish at times.

I can 100% guarantee those comments were just google translate bits.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I can 100% guarantee those comments were just google translate bits.

Why would you google translate english lyrics into english?

 

[ZephyrZ]

Denial’s not a good look for you Dr. Dragon...

This is relevant.

Anyone remember when I was Mr.Dragon? I guess I'd be Mr.Turtle right now.

 

[Will]

Shovel Knight - Ace - 8933
Shantae - Ace - 8413

This ain’t it chief

I DON'T SPEAK IN "CAN'T EVEN BE AN ASSIST"

Why would you google translate english lyrics into english?

pretty sure theres some japanese in there chief

 

[Zinith]

Apparently the weakest Yoshi Spirit is...

Tap-Tap?

A boss enemy in Yoshi's Island?

Not Crazee Dayzee?

 

[Deleted member]

JRPG and Fighting Game fandoms make me irritated and grumpy.

 

[Luigifan18]

what is 4th party characters?

Characters who aren't from video game franchises so this includes someone like Goku.

Outside of Smash Speculation, a nonsense word that literally describes something that can't exist if you think about it.
Inside Smash Speculation, a colloquialism to describe a character who didn't originate in a video game.

That is a nice, simple answer, but it doesn't establish what "fourth-party" actually means. First, second, third, and fourth party are always defined with respect to a particular property owner, like, say, Nintendo. Speaking in terms of Nintendo...

1. First-party franchises are franchises directly owned by Nintendo itself, such as Mario, The Legend of Zelda, and Splatoon. Nintendo has free reign to use these however it sees fit.
2. Second-party franchises are franchises that Nintendo does not own directly, but does have partial ownership of; they are either owned by direct subsidiaries of Nintendo or Nintendo has co-ownership of them in a fashion where no extensive negotiations are needed for their use (unlike, say, Geno, who Nintendo has partial ownership of, but would still need to go through extensive negotiations with Square Enix to actually use (and Square Enix would likewise need to negotiate with Nintendo to use Geno... if you think this sounds like a headache for both parties, you'd be correct)). Examples include Pokémon (owned by Game Freak/The Pokémon Company International), Golden Sun (owned by Camelot), and Kirby (owned by HAL Laboratories). Though, funnily enough, Game Freak and Camelot aren’t entirely full subsidiaries of Nintendo, as they both have some franchises which they share ownership of with Sega instead (like Pulseman for Game Freak and Shining Force for Camelot). Basically, the difference between second-party and third-party is whether or not the parent company can be considered to be part of Nintendo. Nintendo can use second-party franchises pretty much whenever it likes, but does have to follow some guidelines in how it does so (the Pokémon Company, for instance, can be fairly tight-wadded in regards to how Pokémon is handled, and Nintendo could actually get in trouble if it were to "mishandle" the property). Also, Rareware franchises were considered second-party to Nintendo before the Microsoft buyout; they are now second-party to Microsoft and third-party to Nintendo.
3. Third-party franchises are franchises that Nintendo does not own at all; they are owned by independent companies in the video game industry, and a third-party franchise having representation on Nintendo property requires some sort of agreement to be made between Nintendo and the franchise's parent company. Third-party franchises include Sonic the Hedgehog (owned by Sega), Mega Man (owned by Capcom), Castlevania (owned by Konami), and Final Fantasy (owned by Square Enix); Sony and Microsoft franchises such as God of War, Little Big Planet, Halo, and Banjo-Kazooie are also third-party for Nintendo, but given that they have their own first-party or second-party systems to be featured on, they aren't likely to be seen on Nintendo systems anytime soon. Kingdom Hearts is technically third-party as well, despite being owned by Disney (not Square Enix as a lot seem to think), as while Disney is not primarily a video game company, Kingdom Hearts itself is primarily a video game franchise. Indie franchises, such as Shantae (WayForward), Shovel Knight (Yacht Club Games), and Cave Story (Nicalis), are also third-party to Nintendo.
4. Fourth-party franchises are not owned by Nintendo and are not primarily video game properties; they may have tie-in video game products, but video games will never be the primary focus of fourth-party franchises. Since Smash is meant to be about video games first and foremost, with a focus on Nintendo, fourth-party franchises really have no business with it. Fourth-party franchises include Dragon Ball (Toei), Shrek (Dreamworks), SpongeBob (Nickelodeon), and the Disney Animated Canon (take a wild guess).

Whether a character is first-party, second-party, third-party, or fourth-party is determined by the ownership of the franchise the character is from. The Smash roster is primarily composed of first- and second-party characters, with a handful of third-party guests, but Sakurai has made it quite clear that fourth-party characters should not bother applying; they will never be invited.

Apparently the weakest Yoshi Spirit is...

Tap-Tap?

A boss enemy in Yoshi's Island?

Not Crazee Dayzee?

Tap-Tap was an ordinary enemy as well. Granted, it was an enemy that Yoshi normally could not hurt in any way (his tongue just pushed it a bit, his eggs just knocked it backwards, and stomping on Tap-Tap just hurt Yoshi); he had to use other things (like other Tap-Taps, Chomp Rocks, or Super Stars) to take a Tap-Tap down, and if no suitable objects were available... well, Yoshi couldn't do squat. Crazee Dayzees, by contrast, are very easily killed. So... yeah. Tap-Tap being weaker than Crazee Dayzee still doesn’t make sense.

 

[Will]

Not Crazee Dayzee?

lol this dude never played paper mario

JRPG and Fighting Game fandoms make me irritated and grumpy.

then why are you here

 

[Zinith]

lol this dude never played paper mario

Oh contrare...

You're thinking of Amazy Dayzee

 

[Will]

Oh contrare...

You're thinking of Amazy Dayzee

whats wrong with mentioning both

 

[Zinith]

whats wrong with mentioning both

Because it's not a Spirit like Crazee Dayzee is (and it hasn't appeared in Yoshi games to my knowledge)

 

[PLATINUM7]

That is a nice, simple answer, but it doesn't establish what "fourth-party" actually means. First, second, third, and fourth party are always defined with respect to a particular property owner, like, say, Nintendo. Speaking in terms of Nintendo...

1. First-party franchises are franchises directly owned by Nintendo itself, such as Mario, The Legend of Zelda, and Splatoon. Nintendo has free reign to use these however it sees fit.
2. Second-party franchises are franchises that Nintendo does not own directly, but does have partial ownership of; they are either owned by direct subsidiaries of Nintendo or Nintendo has co-ownership of them in a fashion where no extensive negotiations are needed for their use (unlike, say, Geno, who Nintendo has partial ownership of, but would still need to go through extensive negotiations with Square Enix to actually use (and Square Enix would likewise need to negotiate with Nintendo to use Geno... if you think this sounds like a headache for both parties, you'd be correct)). Examples include Pokémon (owned by Game Freak/The Pokémon Company International), Golden Sun (owned by Camelot), and Kirby (owned by HAL Laboratories). Though, funnily enough, Game Freak and Camelot aren’t entirely full subsidiaries of Nintendo, as they both have some franchises which they share ownership of with Sega instead (like Pulseman for Game Freak and Shining Force for Camelot). Basically, the difference between second-party and third-party is whether or not the parent company can be considered to be part of Nintendo. Nintendo can use second-party franchises pretty much whenever it likes, but does have to follow some guidelines in how it does so (the Pokémon Company, for instance, can be fairly tight-wadded in regards to how Pokémon is handled, and Nintendo could actually get in trouble if it were to "mishandle" the property). Also, Rareware franchises were considered second-party to Nintendo before the Microsoft buyout; they are now second-party to Microsoft and third-party to Nintendo.
3. Third-party franchises are franchises that Nintendo does not own at all; they are owned by independent companies in the video game industry, and a third-party franchise having representation on Nintendo property requires some sort of agreement to be made between Nintendo and the franchise's parent company. Third-party franchises include Sonic the Hedgehog (owned by Sega), Mega Man (owned by Capcom), Castlevania (owned by Konami), and Final Fantasy (owned by Square Enix); Sony and Microsoft franchises such as God of War, Little Big Planet, Halo, and Banjo-Kazooie are also third-party for Nintendo, but given that they have their own first-party or second-party systems to be featured on, they aren't likely to be seen on Nintendo systems anytime soon. Kingdom Hearts is technically third-party as well, despite being owned by Disney (not Square Enix as a lot seem to think), as while Disney is not primarily a video game company, Kingdom Hearts itself is primarily a video game franchise. Indie franchises, such as Shantae (WayForward), Shovel Knight (Yacht Club Games), and Cave Story (Nicalis), are also third-party to Nintendo.
4. Fourth-party franchises are not owned by Nintendo and are not primarily video game properties; they may have tie-in video game products, but video games will never be the primary focus of fourth-party franchises. Since Smash is meant to be about video games first and foremost, with a focus on Nintendo, fourth-party franchises really have no business with it. Fourth-party franchises include Dragon Ball (Toei), Shrek (Dreamworks), SpongeBob (Nickelodeon), and the Disney Animated Canon (take a wild guess).

Whether a character is first-party, second-party, third-party, or fourth-party is determined by the ownership of the franchise the character is from. The Smash roster is primarily composed of first- and second-party characters, with a handful of third-party guests, but Sakurai has made it quite clear that fourth-party characters should not bother applying; they will never be invited.

People never seem to get Pokemon ownership right. It's owned equally by Nintendo, Game Freak and Creatures. The only caveat to that is that the Pokemon trademark is solely owned by Nintendo. The Pokemon Company (previously the Pokemon Center Company) was formed by all 3 to make licensing easier.

 

[Will]

Because it's not a Spirit like Crazee Dayzee is (and it hasn't appeared in Yoshi games to my knowledge)

>do wiki search
>whole list of yoshi game appearances and sprites

and you call yourself an expert

Spoiler: Update

so apparently you meant the other one

which isnt the point of the comment at all???????

the point is that their appearances in paper mario are hella more annoying and therefore more powerful

 

[fleshdude.gov]

I can maybe get the Gods part because of GX but I don't got a clue what monsters is referring to.

Unless Daytona USA man is racist against aliens, the closest I can think of is Black Shadow.

Bio Rex?

 

[Will]

Bio Rex?

ok dinophobe

 

[PLATINUM7]

>do wiki search
>whole list of yoshi game appearances and sprites

and you call yourself an expert

Spoiler: Update

so apparently you meant the other one

which isnt the point of the comment at all???????

the point is that their appearances in paper mario are hella more annoying and therefore more powerful

That's a normal Crayzee Dayzee, not an Amayzee Dayzee.

 

[Zinith]

>do wiki search
>whole list of yoshi game appearances and sprites

and you call yourself an expert

Cool you're galaxy brain powers there buddy. I said AMAZEE DAYZEES haven't appeared in Yoshi games to date. Crazee Dayzees are stupidly common otherwise...

 

[Deleted member]

Shovel Knight - Ace - 8933
Shantae - Ace - 8413

This ain’t it chief
View attachment 186698

Sounds about right to me, chief.

 

[Megadoomer]

hey i leveled up every spirit in the game to 99 and made this

https://pastebin.com/qe0UPaPN

now you all can argue about how strong your favorite characters are

I've been trying to do this, and I'm glad to see that my expectation was right - Dan Hibiki is the weakest spirit in the game.

I find it a little weird that Master Hand and Crazy Hand don't have the same stats, like how Galeem and his counterpart do.

 

[Will]

That's a normal Crayzee Dayzee, not an Amayzee Dayzee.

dawg you literally had the update right there do you just have spoilerphobia

Cool you're galaxy brain powers there buddy.

Nice English.

And also nice not having the update despite the guy before you already having it. What took you much longer? Mocking me?

 

[?????????????]

Sounds about right to me, chief.

If I remember correctly, as a franchise, Shovel Knight has outsold Shantae.

Despite the difference in number of games.

 

[KMDP]

hey i leveled up every spirit in the game to 99 and made this

https://pastebin.com/qe0UPaPN

now you all can argue about how strong your favorite characters are

I'm curious to how slots & abilities compare. Several of the Legends with 3 Slots are in the 80s.

Well, for starters; Galeem, Dharkon, Galacta Knight and Akuma don't have slots; Akuma doesn't even have a base Ability (Galacta Knight has Sword Attack ↑, and Galeem and Dharkon have "Bane" abilities which only work in Adventure Mode).

Slots can be pretty important, since some characters with three slots aren't in the top 10, but can end up having the highest tier of Team Power. By this metric, Soma Cruz, Mega Diancie and Isaac (Dark Dawn) are the three strongest spirits.

I had actually been planning to make a chart of my own that catalogued Team Power like this (including number of Slots, Maximum Team Power, Attack Power, Defence Power and Base Ability), but I never got around to it.

 

[PLATINUM7]

dawg you literally had the update right there do you just have spoilerphobia


Nice English.

And also nice not having the update despite the guy before you already having it. What took you much longer? Mocking me?

The update wasn't actually there when I quoted you. Sometimes edits don't appear in my quote until after I've posted.

 

[Deleted member]

That is a nice, simple answer, but it doesn't establish what "fourth-party" actually means. First, second, third, and fourth party are always defined with respect to a particular property owner, like, say, Nintendo. Speaking in terms of Nintendo...

1. First-party franchises are franchises directly owned by Nintendo itself, such as Mario, The Legend of Zelda, and Splatoon. Nintendo has free reign to use these however it sees fit.
2. Second-party franchises are franchises that Nintendo does not own directly, but does have partial ownership of; they are either owned by direct subsidiaries of Nintendo or Nintendo has co-ownership of them in a fashion where no extensive negotiations are needed for their use (unlike, say, Geno, who Nintendo has partial ownership of, but would still need to go through extensive negotiations with Square Enix to actually use (and Square Enix would likewise need to negotiate with Nintendo to use Geno... if you think this sounds like a headache for both parties, you'd be correct)). Examples include Pokémon (owned by Game Freak/The Pokémon Company International), Golden Sun (owned by Camelot), and Kirby (owned by HAL Laboratories). Though, funnily enough, Game Freak and Camelot aren’t entirely full subsidiaries of Nintendo, as they both have some franchises which they share ownership of with Sega instead (like Pulseman for Game Freak and Shining Force for Camelot). Basically, the difference between second-party and third-party is whether or not the parent company can be considered to be part of Nintendo. Nintendo can use second-party franchises pretty much whenever it likes, but does have to follow some guidelines in how it does so (the Pokémon Company, for instance, can be fairly tight-wadded in regards to how Pokémon is handled, and Nintendo could actually get in trouble if it were to "mishandle" the property). Also, Rareware franchises were considered second-party to Nintendo before the Microsoft buyout; they are now second-party to Microsoft and third-party to Nintendo.
3. Third-party franchises are franchises that Nintendo does not own at all; they are owned by independent companies in the video game industry, and a third-party franchise having representation on Nintendo property requires some sort of agreement to be made between Nintendo and the franchise's parent company. Third-party franchises include Sonic the Hedgehog (owned by Sega), Mega Man (owned by Capcom), Castlevania (owned by Konami), and Final Fantasy (owned by Square Enix); Sony and Microsoft franchises such as God of War, Little Big Planet, Halo, and Banjo-Kazooie are also third-party for Nintendo, but given that they have their own first-party or second-party systems to be featured on, they aren't likely to be seen on Nintendo systems anytime soon. Kingdom Hearts is technically third-party as well, despite being owned by Disney (not Square Enix as a lot seem to think), as while Disney is not primarily a video game company, Kingdom Hearts itself is primarily a video game franchise. Indie franchises, such as Shantae (WayForward), Shovel Knight (Yacht Club Games), and Cave Story (Nicalis), are also third-party to Nintendo.
4. Fourth-party franchises are not owned by Nintendo and are not primarily video game properties; they may have tie-in video game products, but video games will never be the primary focus of fourth-party franchises. Since Smash is meant to be about video games first and foremost, with a focus on Nintendo, fourth-party franchises really have no business with it. Fourth-party franchises include Dragon Ball (Toei), Shrek (Dreamworks), SpongeBob (Nickelodeon), and the Disney Animated Canon (take a wild guess).

Whether a character is first-party, second-party, third-party, or fourth-party is determined by the ownership of the franchise the character is from. The Smash roster is primarily composed of first- and second-party characters, with a handful of third-party guests, but Sakurai has made it quite clear that fourth-party characters should not bother applying; they will never be invited.



Tap-Tap was an ordinary enemy as well. Granted, it was an enemy that Yoshi normally could not hurt in any way (his tongue just pushed it a bit, his eggs just knocked it backwards, and stomping on Tap-Tap just hurt Yoshi); he had to use other things (like other Tap-Taps, Chomp Rocks, or Super Stars) to take a Tap-Tap down, and if no suitable objects were available... well, Yoshi couldn't do squat. Crazee Dayzees, by contrast, are very easily killed. So... yeah. Tap-Tap being weaker than Crazee Dayzee still doesn’t make sense.

What about fifth party franchises?

 

[fleshdude.gov]

I would like to take a moment to direct you to the fact that Medusa is stronger than Hades, according to the spirit power levels.

Oh, and Empress Bulblax is stronger than both Andross and Mother Brain in their respective final forms.