Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Captain Shwampy]

It's baffling, Doomguy just seems like the perfect Western pick. He's Western, people consider him as an icon who's "earned it", and he's stylistically and mechanically unique. And after playing the first segments of DOOM or even just DOOM 1, he shows more "personality" than most of the roster. I think the community's gotten to a state where if it's something they don't want, they'll scramble for a reason to disavow it (anime, swords, character quality, Playstation Character, didn't "deserve" being in, etc.)

The community apparently wants failed animal mascot characters that died in the 90s lmao

 

[Darkbeard]

Piranha Plant, together with a new stage and music tracks, will be available for purchase as DLC in the future.

But that page doesn't actually say the part in bold.

 

[Will]

Yes Banjo, No Steve

/s

The community apparently wants failed animal mascot characters that died in the 90s lmao

Dang, you really had to do it to 'em.

 

[DevaAshera]

The community apparently wants failed animal mascot characters that died in the 90s lmao

Yeah..have to agree with you here..
I have absolutely nothing against Crash or Spyro, in fact, I love their games, but outside of their remastered remakes, they haven't been relevant in ages...and there's Banjo & Kazooie..I adore the original N64 Banjo-Kazooie games, I even had a Banjo-Kazooie plush as a kid, but they haven't been relevant since early in the 360's lifespan..and even then, the game that they were relevant for was definitely not well received, leaving their last celebrated game being from 2000.
Say what you will about the rollercoaster of quality that is Sonic's modern games, but he's stayed relevant and popular with all ages.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The community apparently wants failed animal mascot characters that died in the 90s lmao

Pretty sure Banjo was murdered in 2002.

 

[Impa4Smash]

https://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/d...ltimate-nintendo-direct-unleashes-new-details

Early Purchase Bonus: Piranha Plant takes root! The iconic enemy from the Super Mario series is coming to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for early purchasers. Players can purchase the digital version of the game or register their physical game card on a Nintendo Switch device by Jan. 31, 2019, to gain access to this new fighter when it is available around February 2019 at no additional cost. Piranha Plant, together with a new stage and music tracks, will be available for purchase as DLC in the future. Fans can pre-purchase the game and secure the Piranha Plant reward starting today by visiting http://smashbros.nintendo.com/buy/.

Audrey the II will get a stage.

Except the part about the stage and music isn't in the actual quote from the article

 

[PeridotGX]

I think having Incineroar as the last playable character was dumb. I guess it makes sense because they wanted World of Light to be the last reveal for the game overall, but...it's Incineroar. And I said it before the Grinch Leak was a thing. Incineroar as the last playable character would be a disappointment. And it was.

There was a moderate reason to it. Aside from Inkling, it was chronological.

- August 1986
- September 1986
- November 1994
- November 2012
- November 2016

Not saying it was a good order, but there was a reason.

 

[Shroob]

Guys, his page may still be very, very old.


When the page launched, it actually DID say it'd have a stage, but it was rectified like the day after. If he hasn't cleared his cookies/cache/whatever, it may still show that.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

Japan pandering

Is your avatar meant to be ironic?

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

....Ironic that now I am discouraged from playing as him due to being terrible at the gameplay style he requires....

As someone who wasn't all the excited for him before he was first revealed, I find him incredibly fun character in terms of playing to maximize fun. That silliness of all his comeback mechanics are so exciting. Revenge is great.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Pretty sure Banjo was murdered in 2002.

I believe November 11, 2008 was the day Banjo died.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Guys, his page may still be very, very old.


When the page launched, it actually DID say it'd have a stage, but it was rectified like the day after. If he hasn't cleared his cookies/cache/whatever, it may still show that.

It's too bad really. It'd be a great excuse to justify a proper Bowser's Castle stage.

 

[Shroob]

I believe November 11, 2008 was the day Banjo died.

The opening sequence was a huge slap to the nuts to all his fans.


Funny how when you make fun of what the fans actually want out of a game, it backfires horribly.

 

[Impa4Smash]

The opening sequence was a huge slap to the nuts to all his fans.


Funny how when you make fun of what the fans actually want out of a game, it backfires horribly.

I still remember younger me's rage at them losing all their abilities and being told to make a ****ing car

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Still, to say that Banjo wasn't a pivotal part of Nintendo history would be in itself a lie.

Does that mean he's necessarily likely for inclusion. No. I mean you can take a look at Isaac and tell that being a pivotal part of Nintendo history doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna make it in.

What I mean by this is, Isaac was always considered one of the mascots of the GBA just as Banjo was considered one of the mascots for the N64. Both were featured prominently in just about every inch of advertising for their respective consoles.

 

[Kingslime304]

The opening sequence was a huge slap to the nuts to all his fans.


Funny how when you make fun of what the fans actually want out of a game, it backfires horribly.

You mean the part where the Lord of Video Games whines about the normal collecting sequence to be too unbearable (Heh) simply because Banjo got thick after years, and gruntilda can't find her body, and thought replacing it all with a genre that doesn't fit with the formula of Banjo & Kazooie was a good idea?

Edit: I also remember that he said it isn't "What gamers want" since they want to "Shoot things" which was a even huger slap in the face to Banjo fans.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Still, to say that Banjo wasn't a pivotal part of Nintendo history would be in itself a lie.

Does that mean he's necessarily likely for inclusion. No. I mean you can take a look at Isaac and tell that being a pivotal part of Nintendo history doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna make it in.

What I mean by this is, Isaac was always considered one of the mascots of the GBA just as Banjo was considered one of the mascots for the N64. Both were featured prominently in just about every inch of advertising for their respective consoles.

Banjo-Kazooie is an amazing game and saying they're just a nostalgic pick is stupid. They're an icon of the N64 and platforming heyday.

But downplaying Steve's iconic status (not you) is stupid too.

Basically, the whole Steve-Banjo war is stupid, and they can coexist easily, if by some wild chance we get a Microsoft rep, then we can get two.

 

[Deleted member]

The opening sequence was a huge slap to the nuts & bolts to all his fans.

Fixed the missed opportunity for a pun.

As someone who wasn't all the excited for him before he was first revealed, I find him incredibly fun character in terms of playing to maximize fun. That silliness of all his comeback mechanics are so exciting. Revenge is great.

He is fun to use.
...I just wish I didn't suck.....

 

[DevaAshera]

So, I found an old quote from my one-time pseudo-colleague, Seth Killian, from when he was still at Capcom USA that explains my viewpoint when I see people say something that is popular in the West would be likely for Super Smash Bros. ignoring if the series is popular, or even out, in Japan. This is what I think every time I see someone think a character from Doom, Skyrim, Mortal Kombat, or Shovel Knight is likely for Smash because they are 'popular' when, in reality, they are primarily or even only popular in the West (note that this was primarily annoying to me during the Ballot when everyone was positive that Shovel Knight was going to be the Ballot winner due to popularity..when his game hadn't even been released in Japan yet, leaving most Japanese to wonder what exactly a 'shovel knight' even was, not so much now unless someone thinks the character is absolutely happening due to popularity)

"Beyond sales however, it’s largely a cultural impression issue. I think most Capcom Japan staff view Mega Man as a fairly "Japanese" character (as opposed to, say, Frank West). I think Americans often assume that because something is popular in America, everyone else probably likes it too. In Japan, it’s usually the opposite — the more "Japanese" something might be, the less they would expect it to be popular elsewhere."

Note: this was in regards to Capcom Japan believing that Mega Man wasn't a popular character in the West.

 

[MBRedboy31]

The opening sequence was a huge slap to the nuts to all his fans.


Funny how when you make fun of what the fans actually want out of a game, it backfires horribly.

Back when I rented the game years ago, I don’t think I really understood the significance of what they were making fun of.
I also remember being like, “well, this is the new gimmick, huh?” ... “Oh, I guess this is actually the whole game? Huh.”
Despite that I actually still had a lot of fun playing it, though, I like being able to mess around in a physics sandbox and devise a wide variety of vehicles and other miscellaneous contraptions.

 

[Kingslime304]

Off topic, but does anyone find Overwatch to be one of those games where it makes you feel drained all the time, and felt simply negative of it, even when you come back after a few months?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The opening sequence was a huge slap to the nuts to all his fans.


Funny how when you make fun of what the fans actually want out of a game, it backfires horribly.

well that sounds like a massive **** up

 

[BlondeLombax]

Back when I rented the game years ago, I don’t think I really understood the significance of what they were making fun of.
I also remember being like, “well, this is the new gimmick, huh?” ... “Oh, I guess this is actually the whole game? Huh.”
Despite that I actually still had a lot of fun playing it, though, I like being able to mess around in a physics sandbox and devise a wide variety of vehicles and other miscellaneous contraptions.

It’s a brilliant game on its own, just not a fitting entry in the franchise. There’s always gonna be a game like that for certain franchises; Tri Force Heroes, Federation Force, I’d list more if I know more.

 

[Zinith]

Banjo-Kazooie is in!!!

But it's when they were fat in the beginning of N&B

Nothing could go wrong

 

[Impa4Smash]

Banjo-Kazooie is in!!!

But it's when they were fat in the beginning of N&B

Nothing could go wrong

Don't make me use Yoshi against you

 

[staindgrey]

Off topic, but does anyone find Overwatch to be one of those games where it makes you feel drained all the time, and felt simply negative of it, even when you come back after a few months?

Only in Competitive.

Soon as I dropped that it was fun as hell again.

 

[Kingslime304]

Not gonna lie every time I'm against a Yoshi, I feel like he's being some snarky dino that Dairs/Fairs you into oblivion, makes you feel like you can't reach him by using his eggs, and tries to spike you all the time.

Only in Competitive.

Soon as I dropped that it was fun as hell again.

Oh that's good.
Yet for me, Quickplay is just boring due to the overall gameplay, which is why I always prefer arcade modes.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Off topic, but does anyone find Overwatch to be one of those games where it makes you feel drained all the time, and felt simply negative of it, even when you come back after a few months?

Nah cuz I just play as Mercy and heal people. Unless they're being *****, then I just watch them die

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Watch that we do get Banjo-Kazooie but its the Nuts & Bolts design.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Watch that we do get Banjo-Kazooie but its the Nuts & Bolts design.

Better than them not being in the game I guess. Not like the designs are awful, just the game it's in is.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

So, I found an old quote from my one-time pseudo-colleague, Seth Killian, from when he was still at Capcom USA that explains my viewpoint when I see people say something that is popular in the West would be likely for Super Smash Bros. ignoring if the series is popular, or even out, in Japan. This is what I think every time I see someone think a character from Doom, Skyrim, Mortal Kombat, or Shovel Knight is likely for Smash because they are 'popular' when, in reality, they are primarily or even only popular in the West (note that this was primarily annoying to me during the Ballot when everyone was positive that Shovel Knight was going to be the Ballot winner due to popularity..when his game hadn't even been released in Japan yet, leaving most Japanese to wonder what exactly a 'shovel knight' even was, not so much now unless someone thinks the character is absolutely happening due to popularity)

"Beyond sales however, it’s largely a cultural impression issue. I think most Capcom Japan staff view Mega Man as a fairly "Japanese" character (as opposed to, say, Frank West). I think Americans often assume that because something is popular in America, everyone else probably likes it too. In Japan, it’s usually the opposite — the more "Japanese" something might be, the less they would expect it to be popular elsewhere."

Note: this was in regards to Capcom Japan believing that Mega Man wasn't a popular character in the West.

Granted, you're not wrong but you can't compare the ideology of Capcom to the ideology of Nintendo, Sora Ltd., and Bandai-Namco without knowing how all 4 of those studios work behind closed doors.

Capcom Japan and Capcom USA for instance are to very different companies in the grand scheme of things and each one basically does their own thing. Communication between the two of them probably isn't as prominent or expansive as it would be between NoA and NoJ. Nintendo is very strict on how their product is approached in each individual market.

I think it's telling of Sakurai's vision of the western market with the inclusion of Ridley, K. Rool to a lesser degree, because Japan doesn't care at all for Metroid. Let alone a random boss in the games that doesn't even happen to be the big bad of ANY of them unlike Bowser or Ganon or even K. Rool. Saying that something can't happen because it's not popular in Japan doesn't seem to be entirely correct anymore.

I could definitely see Erdrick or another DQ hero being presented as the Japan favorite and the Doom Slayer presented as the western favorite because all in all each franchise is a phenomenon in it's own market but not on each others.

 

[Kingslime304]

Quick question!
What do you think of Crashes tattoos from Crash of the Titans?
Personally I find them a little unfitting considering it's coming from a crazed bandicoot that acts cartoony.

 

[Zinith]

Don't make me use Yoshi against you

Oh, you can use Yoshi against me all ya want

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Oh, you can use Yoshi against me all ya want

That sounds so damn inappropriate.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Don't make me use Yoshi against you

I’m now forced to imagine you picking up a Yarn Yoshi amiibo and slapping him across the face with it, and it having barely any effect

 

[Kingslime304]

I just realized, remember when during the mid-2000's (Or earlier) and a bit later, some games play like entirely different games depending of what system your playing on?

 

[Idon]

I just realized, remember when during the mid-2000's (Or earlier) and a bit later, some games play like entirely different games depending of what system your playing on?

Any examples?

 

[Zinith]

I just realized, remember when during the mid-2000's (Or earlier) and a bit later, some games play like entirely different games depending of what system your playing on?

Are they perchance PS3/X360 compared to Wii?

Cause that was pretty common

 

[Kingslime304]

Any examples?

Battleship (Based on the awful movie btw), Crash of the Titans (And Mind Over Mutant), some Nicktoons games, Madagascar, some other SpongeBob games, Prince Caspian (The DS version is awful from my experience), Toy Story 3 and some others.

 

[DevaAshera]

Granted, you're not wrong but you can't compare the ideology of Capcom to the ideology of Nintendo, Sora Ltd., and Bandai-Namco without knowing how all 4 of those studios work behind closed doors.

Capcom Japan and Capcom USA for instance are to very different companies in the grand scheme of things and each one basically does their own thing. Communication between the two of them probably isn't as prominent or expansive as it would be between NoA and NoJ. Nintendo is very strict on how their product is approached in each individual market.

I think it's telling of Sakurai's vision of the western market with the inclusion of Ridley, K. Rool to a lesser degree, because Japan doesn't care at all for Metroid. Let alone a random boss in the games that doesn't even happen to be the big bad of ANY of them unlike Bowser or Ganon or even K. Rool. Saying that something can't happen because it's not popular in Japan doesn't seem to be entirely correct anymore.

I could definitely see Erdrick or another DQ hero being presented as the Japan favorite and the Doom Slayer presented as the western favorite because all in all each franchise is a phenomenon in it's own market but not on each others.

You misunderstand my point.

My point was that there are fans that act like a Western character's popularity is universal when its primarily only the West and they are either not popular or even known in Japan or they don't consider that popularity might only be the case in one region.

That said, I also think there's a difference between 1st/2nd Party characters and 3rd Party characters for this. I honestly don't think Nintendo would choose a 3rd Party character only popular in one region (the West or Japan) but rather popular in both regions, which they have thus far since all 3rd Party characters are popular in all regions in some fashion, even if it may tip in one direction or the other.
Dragon Quest may be much, much more popular in Japan, but its still a well known and semi-popular series (which honestly grew quite a bit following DQ8 and especially DQXI) in the West as well while Doom, to my knowledge, isn't that well known, or at least not a big name, in Japan.