Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[P1ZZ4CHU]

I get the feeling there were two different leaks (one with Erdrick and both DQ and Persona stage info, one with the set of five) that people are somehow mixing up....
Which one said GrandBlue Fantasy and P5R?

I've gone back over the translated text of the rumor and it seems like it only mentions P5R.

This is what happens when we have a bunch of text leaks all mentioning the same thing.

 

[Shroob]

Hell, OG Doom still holds up today IMO. It's definitely shown its age, but the modding scene for it is very alive and well.

 

[Bionichute]

i think doom guy would be interesting because we don't have just a straight up gun character yet, which is something thats very noticeable after you play psabr and how it has multiple completely different feeling gun boys

 

[NabiscoFelt]

Ok people let's be real: any first party character left that isn't in Smash in some form is going to be far more niche than most potential third parties

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

Hell, OG Doom still holds up today IMO. It's definitely shown its age, but the modding scene for it is very alive and well.

The fact that we only just now found the last secret in Doom II shows just how enduring a game it is.

 

[Bionichute]

Ok people let's be real: any first party character left that isn't in Smash in some form is going to be far more niche than most potential third parties

yeah but

but

I don't want third parties

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Not sold on Doom Guy. I just don't love the idea of an ultra-violent FPS character with no name being one of our big DLC additions.
If you're going that route, at least grab Master Chief?

And before it happens, I'm aware that there are multiple examples of characters already in Smash being primed to throw in my face so save yourselves the time

 

[KarneraMythos]

The idea is third parties should be universal. DLC perhaps moreso.
Or at least keep the pandering to first parties.

If we're lucky, we'll get more DLC. Hell, who knows? The sales potential behind popular spin-off protagonist Joker, remaining NES Classic Hyabusa, long-standing FPS Hero Doomguy, successful once-Indie Steve, and JRPG legend Erdrick may just open the floodgates for more support. I don't particular care for the characters myself, but there is definitely a silver lining to having characters that already receive this positive of a reception. Nintendo would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't at least kickstart a Season 2. Just look at Mario Kart 8.

 

[Graizen]

It's probably a DQ character, likely Erdrick.

Some people think it could be a Bravely Default character (Agnès).

My take: there's a non-zero chance it could be Agumon, but only if they're referencing the anime (though the Pokémon characters prove they're willing to do that).

WarGreymon has the Brave Shield
This is not a Anime thing.

The Crest on WarGreymon's Shield is the Crest of Courage, some games called it the "Brave Crest"

You can search it if you want

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Hardly. Cloud and Ryu were at least big names as opposed to just Steve. And it included first parties.

You mean veterans and a purely promotional pick?

If we get a 1st party character it's not going to be Bandana Dee or Rex & Pyra.

The idea is third parties should be universal. DLC perhaps moreso.
Or at least keep the pandering to first parties.

If by "idea" you mean "fan rule," then yeah, you're correct.

The only criteria is that a third party should originate from a video game and carry history with them. Sakurai more recently mentioned having "worldwide popularity," but the inclusion of Erdrick extends our perception of that and shows that popularity in one market can make up for a supposed lack of popularity in another.

It's anyone's game right now.

WarGreymon has the Brave Shield
This is not a Anime thing.

The Crest on WarGreymon's Shield is the Crest of Courage, some games called it the "Brave Crest"

You can search it if you want

Stop grasping at straws man. It's getting sad.

 

[Shroob]

If this is our 3rd party lineup, I think people really need to step back and accept that Smash isn't just about Nintendo's All-Stars first and foremost anymore.

Yeah, that's the main selling point, but if these really are our DLC characters, then there's one thing as a whole painfully clear:



Smash is now about gaming HISTORY, and is more or less a Gaming Hall of Fame.

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry for the off-topic...

BUT IT IS HAPPENING!!! LOOK AT THE AVATAR!!!

THIS IS NOT A DRILL! MARVEL GAMES IS TEASING THE FANTASTIC FOUR!

 

[Yonder]

Although I don't personally believe that leaked list, I sadly wouldn't be satisfied with it either. I have 0 interest in those aformentioned 5. Thus, I wouldn't buy a single one of them. I just have zero experience with them as a gamer. What I look for in dlc is uniqueness, character (all these guys feel like he blank slate archetype again), and my experience with their games. So...if true, no fighter pass for me.

Who I would want....

Scorpion/Subzero(MK is THE fighting series, SF got two reps, fantasy moveset potential, and MK is coming to the switch.)

Goku (OK I know it wont happen. But he's been in over 100+ video games, fits smash to a tee. My childhood hero. Actually, Gohan was lol but Goku makes way more sense)

Neku (My ideal SE rep. TWEWY is one of my favorite games ever, Neku is a very dynamic character. Realistic, and you see thst slow change. I love it. Also, his games are basically Nintendo exclusive. And he has a HUGE moveset with pins (lightning, vortexs, teleport, healing, swords...c'mon!) His series music kicks ass too. A pipedream though cause he's not popular.

Waluigi (Yeah yeah, it's cool to hate him. But I've always wanted him. Could have a unique moveset. I don't like that him and toad are the only core mario characters not in. That's all.)

Idc about 5 tbh. Banjo or Crash bandicoot I'd buy though.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

WarGreymon has the Brave Shield
This is not a Anime thing.

The Crest on WarGreymon's Shield is the Crest of Courage, some games called it the "Brave Crest"

You can search it if you want

I have to admire somebody who in the face of astronomical odds still believes.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

If we're lucky, we'll get more DLC. Hell, who knows? The sales potential behind popular spin-off protagonist Joker, remaining NES Classic Hyabusa, long-standing FPS Hero Doomguy, successful once-Indie Steve, and JRPG legend Erdrick may just open the floodgates for more support. I don't particular care for the characters myself, but there is definitely a silver lining to having characters that already receive this positive of a reception. Nintendo would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't at least kickstart a Season 2. Just look at Mario Kart 8.

I would hope a season 2 is coming, and I'd hope that that would allow Spirits/Mii Costumes/etc. a spot. I'm also all for echo DLC as well.

I feel like, with the Switch as young as it is, Smash should get a lot of support. If Sakurai doesn't want to deal with the DLC, I'm sure someone else at Nintendo would have no problem taking over as long as this proves to be a cash cow.

Like I said, Doomguy would be nothing short of incredible if he paves a way for Dovahkiin...

 

[Graizen]

I have to admire somebody who in the face of astronomical odds still believes.

Im strong for what i want.
Even more strong becouse some bad stupid evil people here think im "anoying" or some **it like that.

If Agumon joins, awesome.

If he don't join , im happy for everyone, i will play Smash the same way.

 

[Kingslime304]

What playstyle do you think the rumored (and confirmed) DLC characters would have based on how their games are played?
Personally, I think Joker would be a Varied trickster that will fit in a lot of situations based on his wild card mechanic by taking advantage of what's weak, while DoomGuy is a zoner whose neutral is about moving all over the place, and Piranha Plant being a heavy-weight trickster with armored moves.

 

[Shroob]

Like, going off the 5 characters, assuming this is THE list, which I'm 100% doubtful of but I'll run with it for now:



1: Joker

Atlus has been with Nintendo since the very beginning of the Famicon's life with the SMT series.


2: Erdrick

DQ3 is to Dragon Quest as FF7 is to Final Fantasy. It's a game that countless anime/manga/games still reference 30 years later.


3: Doom Marine

Do I even need to explain this? DOOM kickstarted the FPS Genre.


4: Ryu Hyabusa

Arguably the last big 3rd party name on the NES, was the first game to really introduce cutscenes, while also still being known about today due to its insane difficulty levels.


5: Steve

Minecraft, enough said.



Do I believe this list? No, I believe Erdrick is 100% in at this point, but I throw heavy doubt on the other 3.


But each of these characters stands on their own for inclusion in Smash, they're far from 'literal who' choices and frankly eclipse most of the newcomers we've received over the last 2 games barring 3rd party choices.

 

[Bionichute]

Like, going off the 5 characters, assuming this is THE list, which I'm 100% doubtful of but I'll run with it for now:



1: Joker

Atlus has been with Nintendo since the very beginning of the Famicon's life with the SMT series.


2: Erdrick

DQ3 is to Dragon Quest as FF7 is to Final Fantasy. It's a game that countless anime/manga/games still reference 30 years later.


3: Doom Marine

Do I even need to explain this? DOOM kickstarted the FPS Genre.


4: Ryu Hyabusa

Arguably the last big 3rd party name on the NES, was the first game to really introduce cutscenes, while also still being known about today due to its insane difficulty levels.


5: Steve

Minecraft, enough said.



Do I believe this list? No, I believe Erdrick is 100% in at this point, but I throw heavy doubt on the other 3.


But each of these characters stands on their own for inclusion in Smash, they're far from 'literal who' choices and frankly eclipse most of the newcomers we've received over the last 2 games barring 3rd party choices.

k rool is more famous than hayabusa tbh

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

Alright, I've put together a checklist of the 5ch Rumor's biggest claims. Handily enough, they're all specifics that can sink it real fast. So, this is for future reference.

Spoiler: Claims

P5R has a "first half of 2019" release window. This shouldn't be considered a point for it because P5R has been tossed around before.

Erdrick has Luminary and Anlucia skins.

More "past DQ series" are going to be ported to Switch.

DQ11S is going to be published by Nintendo.

Ninja Gaiden will have a new game (or remaster) in 2019 to coincide with the 30th anniversary.

Steve has an Alex and Master Chief skin, and will be revealed at E3.

Doomguy is referred to as Marine, and will be revealed at E3. Marine has a Doom 64 costume.

 

[Shroob]

k rool is more famous than hayabusa tbh

If you can prove your statement I'm all ears, otherwise this sounds like a continued bias claim from yesterday.

 

[Noipoi]

The fact that Hayabusa and Doomguy, these huge icons of the 80s and 90s mean nothing to me, while goddamn Minecraft Steve gives me a twinge of emotion is hilarious to me. I guess it proves that he's an icon for the next generation of gamers, which I guess includes my generation.

I still don't like how he looks. To me, Minecraft has always had a beautiful world, and a butt ugly main character. But still, i'll give in to my inner child and accept the blocky boy.

If this is real of course.

 

[KarneraMythos]

If this is our 3rd party lineup, I think people really need to step back and accept that Smash isn't just about Nintendo's All-Stars first and foremost anymore.

Yeah, that's the main selling point, but if these really are our DLC characters, then there's one thing as a whole painfully clear:



Smash is now about gaming HISTORY, and is more or less a Gaming Hall of Fame.

Honestly, if we ever get Smash 7 with all characters intact somehow, I can see this formula working out for the base roster newcomer selection:
-Obligatory Pokemon Rep
-2-3 Assist Trophy promotions*
-At least 2-3 3rd-Party characters
-1-2 long-requested characters that had minor appearances other than Assist Trophies
-1-2 brand new characters relevant to the era this Smash is released in
* = NOTE: If you were an Assist Trophy more than once, you're automatically out. This means no Isaac, Waluigi, Ashley, Lyn, Shadow, Takamaru, Midna, Skull Kid, etc. However, if your name is either Zero, Shovel Knight, Alucard, Bomberman, Krystal, Knuckles, Spring Man, or even the Squid Sisters (you read that right), congratulations: You have a chance! Also note that this is just my opinion of how Assist Trophy promotions are decided. I am basing this off on the fact that all of the promoted ones came into the player roster one game after their Assist debut, whereas other Assist Trophy characters stayed in that role in the following game of their debut.

I would hope a season 2 is coming, and I'd hope that that would allow Spirits/Mii Costumes/etc. a spot. I'm also all for echo DLC as well.

I feel like, with the Switch as young as it is, Smash should get a lot of support. If Sakurai doesn't want to deal with the DLC, I'm sure someone else at Nintendo would have no problem taking over as long as this proves to be a cash cow.

Like I said, Doomguy would be nothing short of incredible if he paves a way for Dovahkiin...

It would be especially weird if Sakurai would just call it quits here considering how much more the Switch has going for it in its lifespan. Approximately a decade's worth of support, and Smash is supposed to die within the first quarter of the Switch's life cycle? C'mon, that'd be ridiculous. There's no way Nintendo would botch a golden opportunity like that.

I get that Sakurai is a tired, overworked man, but if you think about it, the DLC content is comparatively-small content-wise compared to the hours he spent on the main game. Unless he's working on side projects, he should be losing a lot less sleep around now. Sticking to Smash DLC over working on an entirely-new project which needs tons of planning and storyboarding feels like the lesser of two evils.

 

[Noipoi]

* = NOTE: If you were an Assist Trophy more than once, you're automatically out. This means no Isaac, Waluigi, Ashley, Lyn, Shadow, Takamaru, Midna, Skull Kid

I feel hurt on a deep, personal, spiritual level.

 

[Deleted member]

HOLD ON A MINUTE GUYS!

>Nintendo Direct on January 10th.
>Marvel Games teasing the Fantastic Four for something.
>We are probably getting another trailer for UA3 on the Direct.





THE FANTASTIC FOUR ARE GOING TO BE IN UA3!

 

[Shroob]

Alright, I've put together a checklist of the 5ch Rumor's biggest claims. Handily enough, they're all specifics that can sink it real fast. So, this is for future reference.

Spoiler: Claims

P5R has a "first half of 2019" release window. This shouldn't be considered a point for it because P5R has been tossed around before.

Erdrick has Luminary and Anlucia skins.

More "past DQ series" are going to be ported to Switch.

DQ11S is going to be published by Nintendo.

Ninja Gaiden will have a new game (or remaster) in 2019 to coincide with the 30th anniversary.

Steve has an Alex and Master Chief skin, and will be revealed at E3.

Doomguy is referred to as Marine, and will be revealed at E3. Marine has a Doom 64 costume.

My only problem with this is that we'll probably get Erdrick revealed relatively soon if his statistics are already in the game files.


Revealing two characters at E3 would mean that there'd only be 1 left, and the DLC is supposed to run until Feb 2020.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

Honestly, if we ever get Smash 7 with all characters intact somehow, I can see this formula

It would be especially weird if Sakurai would just call it quits here considering how much more the Switch has going for it in its lifespan. Approximately a decade's worth of support, and Smash is supposed to die within the first quarter of the Switch's life cycle? C'mon, that'd be ridiculous. There's no way Nintendo would botch a golden opportunity like that.

I get that Sakurai is a tired, overworked man, but if you think about it, the DLC content is comparatively-small content-wise compared to the hours he spent on the main game. Unless he's working on side projects, he should be losing a lot less sleep around now. Sticking to Smash DLC over working on an entirely-new project which needs tons of planning and storyboarding feels like the lesser of two evils.

Yeah pretty much this.

I have a feeling the Switch is going to stick around for a while, just like how the 3DS is still ambling around. Thus it would be a smarter investment to keep filling out Ultimate. Plus there's the fact that the next Smash is doomed to look like the inferior product because Sakurai pitched this game literally as "the most Smash for your buck any way you slice it," so it might be wiser to just kick the can a while.

 

[N3ON]

k rool is more famous than hayabusa tbh

This is a claim made from deep within the Smash bubble.

I feel hurt on a deep, personal, spiritual level.

Dun worry, Charizard was a Pokeball twice.

HOLD ON A MINUTE GUYS!

>Nintendo Direct on January 10th.
>Marvel Games teasing the Fantastic Four for something.
>We are probably getting another trailer for UA3 on the Direct.





THE FANTASTIC FOUR ARE GOING TO BE IN UA3!

If Wolverine is in, they probably are too, sure.

 

[Bionichute]

If you can prove your statement I'm all ears, otherwise this sounds like a continued bias claim from yesterday.

hayabusa didn't get nearly as much support, and he probably wouldn't be a headline in an actual newspaper

also k rool's trailer has a magnitude more views on his trailer than simon does, and simon is basically in the same camp as hayabusa. the only trailer that has more than k rool is joker, and that was a trailer that had far more public attention put on it than k rool's did

sorry if simon ****ing belmont can't get more views on his trailer than k rool then i don't see how an even nicher retro character could be more famous

 

[Arthur97]

If we're lucky, we'll get more DLC. Hell, who knows? The sales potential behind popular spin-off protagonist Joker, remaining NES Classic Hyabusa, long-standing FPS Hero Doomguy, successful once-Indie Steve, and JRPG legend Erdrick may just open the floodgates for more support. I don't particular care for the characters myself, but there is definitely a silver lining to having characters that already receive this positive of a reception. Nintendo would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't at least kickstart a Season 2. Just look at Mario Kart 8.

Except it will probably be more third parties.

You mean veterans and a purely promotional pick?

If we get a 1st party character it's not going to be Bandana Dee or Rex & Pyra.

If by "idea" you mean "fan rule," then yeah, you're correct.

The only criteria is that a third party should originate from a video game and carry history with them. Sakurai more recently mentioned having "worldwide popularity," but the inclusion of Erdrick extends our perception of that and shows that popularity in one market can make up for a supposed lack of popularity in another.

It's anyone's game right now.

Stop grasping at straws man. It's getting sad.

You seem awfully confident it won't be. Andveterans were a good thing. I'd also take Nintendo ads over ads for games not even on their systems like Persona 5.

 

[Shroob]

hayabusa didn't get nearly as much support, and he probably wouldn't be a headline in an actual newspaper

also k rool's trailer has a magnitude more views on his trailer than simon does, and simon is basically in the same camp as hayabusa. the only trailer that has more than k rool is joker, and that was a trailer that had far more public attention put on it than k rool's did

sorry if simon ****ing belmont can't get more views on his trailer than k rool then i don't see how an even nicher retro character could be more famous

Oh, we're using the newspaper argument?


Do you realize how easy it is to get an article published in a small town newspaper over literally anything?


I'd know, I did it once, I made a completely fake article to my local newspaper and sent it in, and they published it.

 

[Iridium]

hayabusa didn't get nearly as much support, and he probably wouldn't be a headline in an actual newspaper

also k rool's trailer has a magnitude more views on his trailer than simon does, and simon is basically in the same camp as hayabusa. the only trailer that has more than k rool is joker, and that was a trailer that had far more public attention put on it than k rool's did

sorry if simon ****ing belmont can't get more views on his trailer than k rool then i don't see how an even nicher retro character could be more famous

Are you basing this off of just trailers? That doesn't exactly mean Ryu doesn't have a bigger legacy than you're suggesting. With the amount of videogame appearances he has even aside from his franchise, calling him niche sounds very off.

It's a bit unfair to cast him off like that just because of what appears to be more of the Smash community's response than anything else.

 

[Kingslime304]

hayabusa didn't get nearly as much support, and he probably wouldn't be a headline in an actual newspaper

also k rool's trailer has a magnitude more views on his trailer than simon does, and simon is basically in the same camp as hayabusa. the only trailer that has more than k rool is joker, and that was a trailer that had far more public attention put on it than k rool's did

sorry if simon ****ing belmont can't get more views on his trailer than k rool then i don't see how an even nicher retro character could be more famous

That's maybe because the views were from the Smash fanon considering people guessed Simon before he was revealed due to rumors/leaks, and that K. Rool was Ridley tier in terms of character requests.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

My only problem with this is that we'll probably get Erdrick revealed relatively soon if his statistics are already in the game files.


Revealing two characters at E3 would mean that there'd only be 1 left, and the DLC is supposed to run until Feb 2020.

We've also had Joker data in the game from the very first patch. He could be a ways out still, we don't know. But I agree with you. Having two characters revealed at E3 seems strange, even if they pull a Cloud and don't release either of them for at least 6 months.

 

[Shroob]

hayabusa didn't get nearly as much support, and he probably wouldn't be a headline in an actual newspaper

also k rool's trailer has a magnitude more views on his trailer than simon does, and simon is basically in the same camp as hayabusa. the only trailer that has more than k rool is joker, and that was a trailer that had far more public attention put on it than k rool's did

sorry if simon ****ing belmont can't get more views on his trailer than k rool then i don't see how an even nicher retro character could be more famous

Also:


"Muh trailer views"

It's almost like K.Rool was a character that the Smash fanbase wouldn't shut up and self ****ing over while Simon was a "He'd be nice to have" kind of deal.



No **** the rabid Smash fanbase would be oogling over the trailer of a character wanted for over a decade, that doesn't prove anything.

 

[Polan]

hayabusa didn't get nearly as much support, and he probably wouldn't be a headline in an actual newspaper

also k rool's trailer has a magnitude more views on his trailer than simon does, and simon is basically in the same camp as hayabusa. the only trailer that has more than k rool is joker, and that was a trailer that had far more public attention put on it than k rool's did

sorry if simon ****ing belmont can't get more views on his trailer than k rool then i don't see how an even nicher retro character could be more famous

are you paid to make dumb arguments? because using youtube views as a way to argue against a character is some of the dumbest **** i've seen on this thread and there's been some real doozies here.

 

[Bionichute]

Are you basing this off of just trailers? That doesn't exactly mean Ryu doesn't have a bigger legacy than you're suggesting. With the amount of videogame appearances he has, calling him niche sounds very off.

It's a bit unfair to cast him off like that just because what appears to be more of the Smash community's response.

alright how about sales numbers

the original dkc trilogy sold over 15 million units, while the ninja gaiden reboot trilogy sold just over 3 million. obviously i don't have numbers for the original nes trilogy, but i'll at least give it that they probably sold pretty well. dkc1 and 2 were kind of a phenomenon when they came out, much more than the ninja gaiden games are

so yeah, overall more people probably know who k rool is than people who know about ryu hayabusa, if only by a few million

 

[Yonder]

HOLD ON A MINUTE GUYS!

>Nintendo Direct on January 10th.
>Marvel Games teasing the Fantastic Four for something.
>We are probably getting another trailer for UA3 on the Direct.





THE FANTASTIC FOUR ARE GOING TO BE IN UA3!

Direct on the 10th? I miss something?

 

[Shroob]

alright how about sales numbers

the original dkc trilogy sold over 15 million units, while the ninja gaiden reboot trilogy sold just over 3 million. obviously i don't have numbers for the original nes trilogy, but i'll at least give it that they probably sold pretty well. dkc1 and 2 were kind of a phenomenon when they came out, much more than the ninja gaiden games are

so yeah, overall more people probably know who k rool is than people who know about ryu hayabusa

By your logic, more people should know who K.Rool is over Joker.


But we're getting Joker.



What's your POINT here, really? Because all it ends up being is flimsy arguments that come back to "I don't WANT him! He's boring!"

 

[N3ON]

hayabusa didn't get nearly as much support, and he probably wouldn't be a headline in an actual newspaper

also k rool's trailer has a magnitude more views on his trailer than simon does, and simon is basically in the same camp as hayabusa. the only trailer that has more than k rool is joker, and that was a trailer that had far more public attention put on it than k rool's did

sorry if simon ****ing belmont can't get more views on his trailer than k rool then i don't see how an even nicher retro character could be more famous

Corrin's trailer has more views than Pac-Man's, who was revealed at E3. Are you to tell me that Corrin is more popular and well known than Pac-Man?

You're looking at a metric which, at best, only displays a fraction of an audience for a single series. That's a very myopic and misleading sample size for claims of general prolificness, especially since much of that specific audience shows biases not indicative of a general crowd, ie. affinity for characters such as K. Rool, Geno and Isaac.