Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[P1ZZ4CHU]

hayabusa didn't get nearly as much support, and he probably wouldn't be a headline in an actual newspaper

also k rool's trailer has a magnitude more views on his trailer than simon does, and simon is basically in the same camp as hayabusa. the only trailer that has more than k rool is joker, and that was a trailer that had far more public attention put on it than k rool's did

sorry if simon ****ing belmont can't get more views on his trailer than k rool then i don't see how an even nicher retro character could be more famous

The mistake here is not looking outside of the Smash Bros bubble. Yes we're all enthusiasts, but we're also statistically in the same general niche. We talk about many of the same characters and K. Rool happens to be one of them.

If we're talking about in the now popularity then yes K. Rool would probably ring more bells. He's shiny and new thanks to Smash and has been on the internet. But popularity is only half the picture. Ask any thirty something if they remember "that ninja guy" they you'll probably get a bunch of "that game was really hard." Ryu Hayabusa is the Ninja Gaiden Guy, and as far as [INSERT GAME] Guys go he's pretty high among them when it comes to classic platformer characters. Most people who've touched an NES at least know Ninja Gaiden and there's a healthy mindshare of people who are familiar with the franchise moving forward thanks to Dead or Alive or Warriors Orochi.

Trailer views are a single metric. They can't tell you just how far a character reaches.

 

[Alternis]

Direct on the 10th? I miss something?

To my knowledge, it's a rumor floating around, but nothing's come of it so far.

 

[Shroob]

To my knowledge, it's a rumor floating around, but nothing's come of it so far.

I mean, there's a reason as to why, being that General Directs are never announced until the literal day before they happen. We won't know anything until the 9th at the earliest unless ResetERA leaks its date.

 

[Bionichute]

What's your POINT here, really? Because all it ends up being is flimsy arguments that come back to "I don't WANT him! He's boring!"

uh

yeah?

 

[Arcadenik]

Dun worry, Charizard was a Pokeball twice.

Charizard only got in because Sakurai wanted Pokémon Trainer and his gimmick of switching between three Pokémon starters.

Which is why I started supporting Team Rocket and their gimmick of switching between two Pokémon teams (Meowth & Ekans/Arbok and Meowth & Koffing/Weezing).

 

[Shroob]

uh

yeah?

So you admit to not actually having a real argument then and are moreso acting like a kid throwing a tantrum in a toy store.


Because none of your points have worked in your favor, at all. You're using the flimsiest arguments available that everyone has punched Giga-Bowser sized holes in.

 

[Deleted member]

Is the Fantastic Four tease a gift from God or the Destiny for starting to open myself to UA3?

 

[KarneraMythos]

I feel hurt on a deep, personal, spiritual level.

Trust me man, I'd love to have some of those guys playable. My best friend has been wanting Isaac since Brawl. I was just as hurt as he was when we saw him return as an Assist Trophy. I'm just setting the bar high as to not get our hopes up. It ain't so bad though, right? It'd be awesome having Shovel Knight playable for real in the next Smash. Hell, I'd take Zero and Alucard. Even Shantae has a shot (not an Assist Trophy, but still!)!

Except it will probably be more third parties.

For its base roster? Nahhh. Smash Ultimate gave us Simon, Richter, and Ken. If we count Echo Fighters, Ultimate gives us 11 total newcomers (not counting DLC). Only 3/11 are third-party characters. If you take from my list of possible Assist Trophy promotions, Spring Man, Black Knight, and Krystal are fair game. We can even expand the first-party line up to cameos, Spirits, and Bosses like Kumatora, Bandana Waddle Dee, and Marx to name a few. Love it or hate it, there's Elma and Rex as well, who missed their chance in Ultimate. Assuming Sakurai doesn't sweep them under the bus with the 'ol Isaac treatment, they have a chance as well.

Yeah pretty much this.

I have a feeling the Switch is going to stick around for a while, just like how the 3DS is still ambling around. Thus it would be a smarter investment to keep filling out Ultimate. Plus there's the fact that the next Smash is doomed to look like the inferior product because Sakurai pitched this game literally as "the most Smash for your buck any way you slice it," so it might be wiser to just kick the can a while.

It's not like Sakurai has gone back on his word before. Granted, it's taken time for him to have a change of heart for certain things if he finds out a way to improve on it, so it's not that he's a liar so much as he has personal eureka moments. I'm in a camp where Ultimate should definitely be ported in its entirety in the Switch's successor should this Smash be the last Smash to end all Smashes.

 

[Alternis]

I mean, there's a reason as to why, being that General Directs are never announced until the literal day before they happen. We won't know anything until the 9th at the earliest unless ResetERA leaks its date.

I forgot about that, but I was more referring to the fact that the rumor appeared one day, but no new people are emerging with info about it; it just keeps getting circulated through different places. Poor wording on my part, I suppose.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

alright how about sales numbers

the original dkc trilogy sold over 15 million units, while the ninja gaiden reboot trilogy sold just over 3 million. obviously i don't have numbers for the original nes trilogy, but i'll at least give it that they probably sold pretty well. dkc1 and 2 were kind of a phenomenon when they came out, much more than the ninja gaiden games are

so yeah, overall more people probably know who k rool is than people who know about ryu hayabusa, if only by a few million

"Let me compare one of the best selling games on the SNES to a reboot on later gen platforms."

ay papi

 

[Double K]

Oh, we're using the newspaper argument?


Do you realize how easy it is to get an article published in a small town newspaper over literally anything?


I'd know, I did it once, I made a completely fake article to my local newspaper and sent it in, and they published it.

What about that one time when an anime hashtag took over the hashtag by a new outlet for some small town in the UK?

 

[Kingslime304]

Just in Case, here's the category of the swordfighters in Smash (Not final since I don't know all of their playstyles):
Spacing: Marth, Lucina, Shulk
Comboing: Corrin, Meta Knight, Young Link
Spacing w/ some aggressive play: Lucina, Corrin
Rushdown/Going Ham: Roy, Chrom, Meta Knight, Young Link (I think)
Heavy Hitter: Ike, also Cloud, maybe Link
All-Round: Cloud(?), Mii Swordfighter, Pit, Dark Pit
Zoner: Mii Swordfighter (W/ the Gale, and chakram), Robin(?), Young Link, Toon Link
Set-ups: Robin, all of the Links

 

[Bionichute]

i don't want hayabusa and no one is going to change that for me. he's a bad pick

 

[Deleted member]

Between Erdrick in Smash and the Fantastic Four teased by Marvel Games, i am freaking hyped.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

i don't want hayabusa and no one is going to change that for me. he's a bad pick

That's a fairer position than "he's bad and nobody knows him."

Maybe you should have led with that.

 

[Double K]

i don't want hayabusa and no one is going to change that for me. he's a bad pick

I mean so is Captain Falcon but nobody complains about him

 

[Shroob]

I mean so is Captain Falcon but nobody complains about him

That's a funny was to say Ice Climbers.

 

[Noipoi]

i don't want hayabusa and no one is going to change that for me

That's fine.

he's a bad pick

In your opinion. Objectively I don't think that's the truth.

 

[Alternis]

For what it's worth, regarding Hayabusa, even Wikipedia claims:
"He has received public and critical reception as one of the most iconic ninja in video games."
I'm totally ambivalent to him, but it's difficult to deny that he, or at least his original game, is well known.
I suppose I'll mention that even before I knew his name, I had heard about how stupidly hard Ninja Gaiden was.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

I mean so is Captain Falcon but nobody complains about him

Between Erdrick in Smash and the Fantastic Four teased by Marvel Games, i am freaking hyped.

Now if only they could put them in that other game...

 

[Arthur97]

Trust me man, I'd love to have some of those guys playable. My best friend has been wanting Isaac since Brawl. I was just as hurt as he was when we saw him return as an Assist Trophy. I'm just setting the bar high as to not get our hopes up. It ain't so bad though, right? It'd be awesome having Shovel Knight playable for real in the next Smash. Hell, I'd take Zero and Alucard. Even Shantae has a shot (not an Assist Trophy, but still!)!


For its base roster? Nahhh. Smash Ultimate gave us Simon, Richter, and Ken. If we count Echo Fighters, Ultimate gives us 11 total newcomers (not counting DLC). Only 3/11 are third-party characters. If you take from my list of possible Assist Trophy promotions, Spring Man, Black Knight, and Krystal are fair game. We can even expand the first-party line up to cameos, Spirits, and Bosses like Kumatora, Bandana Waddle Dee, and Marx to name a few. Love it or hate it, there's Elma and Rex as well, who missed their chance in Ultimate. Assuming Sakurai doesn't sweep them under the bus with the 'ol Isaac treatment, they have a chance as well.


It's not like Sakurai has gone back on his word before. Granted, it's taken time for him to have a change of heart for certain things if he finds out a way to improve on it, so it's not that he's a liar so much as he has personal eureka moments. I'm in a camp where Ultimate should definitely be ported in its entirety in the Switch's successor should this Smash be the last Smash to end all Smashes.

I thought we were talking more DLC. Yes, the base roster was mostly because okay though they seemed to have missed how hype Ridley and K. Rool were.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Alright, I've put together a checklist of the 5ch Rumor's biggest claims. Handily enough, they're all specifics that can sink it real fast. So, this is for future reference.

Spoiler: Claims

P5R has a "first half of 2019" release window. This shouldn't be considered a point for it because P5R has been tossed around before.

Erdrick has Luminary and Anlucia skins.

More "past DQ series" are going to be ported to Switch.

DQ11S is going to be published by Nintendo.

Ninja Gaiden will have a new game (or remaster) in 2019 to coincide with the 30th anniversary.

Steve has an Alex and Master Chief skin, and will be revealed at E3.

Doomguy is referred to as Marine, and will be revealed at E3. Marine has a Doom 64 costume.

Anlucia is weird character to get her very own skin

Might be related to Erdrick im guessing? since Luminary (Erdrick ancestor) is an alt too. I dont know since DQ10 is japan only

 

[Bionichute]

That's a fairer position than "he's bad and nobody knows him."

Maybe you should have led with that.

probably yeah

 

[N3ON]

Trust me man, I'd love to have some of those guys playable. My best friend has been wanting Isaac since Brawl. I was just as hurt as he was when we saw him return as an Assist Trophy. I'm just setting the bar high as to not get our hopes up. It ain't so bad though, right? It'd be awesome having Shovel Knight playable for real in the next Smash. Hell, I'd take Zero and Alucard. Even Shantae has a shot (not an Assist Trophy, but still!)!

You'd think enough fan rules have been shot down by now to discourage more from popping up.

But people will always try to regulate the mindset of the guy who picked Piranha Plant.

 

[AreJay25]

I'm honestly hoping the leak is real because I want to live in a world where I can Izuna Drop Pichu and Glory Kill Mr. Game and Watch.

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

Anlucia is weird character to get her very own skin

Might be related to Erdrick im guessing? since Luminary (Erdrick ancestor) is an alt too. I dont know since DQ10 is japan only

The apparent gist is they're all equivalent characters in a sort of Alph situation, which is kinda sorta supported by the datamine referring to their class rather than their name (Brave being the literal translation of Yuusha.) Vergeben said he's almost always heard Luminary said alongside Erdrick.

 

[Shroob]

I thought we were talking more DLC. Yes, the base roster was mostly because okay though they seemed to have missed how hype Ridley and K. Rool were.

They didn't miss at all.


They got you to pre-order, or at the very least buy the game. They did their job.

 

[Bionichute]

okay that leak saying that doom guy is just called "marine" is pretty bull**** when he actually has a ****ing name

doom slayer is a far more memorable title and is unique to the character. they wouldn't just ****ing name him marine

 

[Double K]

That's a funny was to say Ice Climbers.

I mean there is stuff in Ice Climbers to use as material. All of Captain Falcon's moves but his Final Smash are straight up just Kamen Rider stuff from early Showa Rider

 

[Icedragonadam]

Another problem with the leak is DOOM itself. It's very very obscure and unpopular in Japan. At least with Dragon Quest, there are far more people familiar with the series in the west than DOOM in Japan. I'm pretty sure Nintendo wants characters that have familiarity with both regions. Like Minecraft which is also popular in Japan as it is in the west.

 

[Bionichute]

I mean there is stuff in Ice Climbers to use as material. All of Captain Falcon's moves but his Final Smash are straight up just Kamen Rider stuff from early Showa Rider

and how is that bad exactly

 

[Captain Shwampy]

okay that leak saying that doom guy is just called "marine" is pretty bull**** when he actually has a ****ing name

doom slayer is a far more memorable title and is unique to the character. they wouldn't just ****ing name him marine

tbh

Doomguy should of always been the canon name

 

[Double K]

and how is that bad exactly

Oh because being unique is obviously the most important thing and not even being a thing from your games is a bad pick

 

[Shroob]

and how is that bad exactly

By your own logic, Captain Falcon is boring because all he does is punch and kick.

 

[Wyoming]

All the characters in this hypothetical fighter's pass deserve to be in Smash based on merit.

However personally disliking it is fine. You don't need to justify it to anyone. It's paid content, so you can think whatever you want about the product being sold to you. Making up arguments is just denial though. Just be honest.

Personally this pass would not interest me in the slightest. I like characters with personality. Steve and Doomguy have the personality of a rock. So I wouldn't get them,

Erdrick I don't even know who he is. I do like Toriyama's art style so for that reason alone I'm willing to give him a chance, but then music might be an issue due to lack of content in that regard. Having a pack with only two tracks would be a horrible deal.

 

[TheCJBrine]

That's a funny was to say Ice Climbers.

Ow...

 

[Bionichute]

tbh

Doomguy should of always been the canon name

i mean yeah but doom slayer is anything official and is still objectively better than marine

 

[KarneraMythos]

i don't want hayabusa and no one is going to change that for me. he's a bad pick

As someone who's mostly indifferent to the line-up, I'm gonna have to call you out on this one: Ryu Hyabusa is NOT a bad pick. He's earned his right to be playable as much as Simon and Mega Man did in their own respective announcements. He is a video game icon and he is responsible for setting many of the standards in today's action games. What rock music is to classical music, the hack-n-slash genre is to the classic Gaiden series.

I thought we were talking more DLC. Yes, the base roster was mostly because okay though they seemed to have missed how hype Ridley and K. Rool were.

Oh whoops. That one is total my bad, haha. Umm, the only 1st-party character I'm personally hopeful for is Rex if Sakurai doesn't stick by a stupid stipulation where he has to stay a Mii Costume. There's Marx too, but the boss role hardly matters considering Bowser and Ganondorf have their own boss forms, so why not an inverted example?

You'd think enough fan rules have been shot down by now to discourage more from popping up.

But people will always try to regulate the mindset of the guy who picked Piranha Plant.

To be fair, it's not like Piranha Plant was an Assist character in any of the previous games. False equivalency.

Other than that, I am politely letting others down in case their hopes are crushed again. I'm the sort who doesn't want to see another repeat of Isaac returning as an Assist. Besides, it's not like I'm 100% against Assist Trophy promotions. It's why I listed other examples that have seemingly-good chances of becoming playable in the sequel. Who knows? Maybe Waluigi will get his chance after all (just an example)

Spoiler

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

okay that leak saying that doom guy is just called "marine" is pretty bull**** when he actually has a ****ing name

doom slayer is a far more memorable title and is unique to the character. they wouldn't just ****ing name him marine

Carmack himself has stated nobody should really care what he's called. (Doom) Marine sounds more professional and marketable than Doomguy.

Although yeah it's weird that they supposedly didn't use Doom Slayer. Could have more to do with Doom 64 alt.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

i don't want hayabusa and no one is going to change that for me. he's a bad pick

Why? Because he's not someone you like? Or another reason?

You seem awfully confident it won't be (1). And veterans were a good thing (2). I'd also take Nintendo ads over ads for games not even on their systems like Persona 5 (3).

1. What do I seem awfully confident about? "Brave" not being Agumon? Yeah I'm confident in that, especially when Erdrick and Yuri fit in with that better, as the word "Brave" is related to their characters in a similar way to how "Jack" is related to Joker. It's like an analogy or a word puzzle. Having one item with the word brave (one that's used by an evolution and not even the original character) is too far off to likely fit, unless you want to say someone like Finn from Fire Emblem could be "Brave" because he prominently uses a Brave Lance. Agumon would likely have a code like "Digi" or "Tama," not "Brave."

2. Veterans were a good thing for Sm4sh, yes. But in a game with every veteran already in, your point about falls apart.

3. So then do you want Snake and Cloud cut? Metal Gear hasn't had a prominent release on Nintendo consoles since 2012, and at the time of his inclusion in Brawl he was advertising Metal Gear Solid 4, which didn't release on the Wii alongside every other Metal Gear game. Cloud, one of the largest 3rd party additions, advertises Final Fantasy 7, one of the biggest middle fingers to Nintendo ever regardless of Nintendo's association with the franchise. Snake represents Metal Gear Solid, a prolific gaming series (he was also a favor for a friend), and Cloud and Joker, while not known for Nintendo appearances, represent Final Fantasy and Shin Megami Tensei, two series with historical ties to Nintendo. The point here is that **** like the "console wars" don't matter, it's what the characters represent and their legacy that does.

I think we should forget about console wars and focus on what’s really important: enjoying the games themselves.

Word from the man himself. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean it's unlikely, nor is it a bad choice.