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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Guybrush20X6

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What do you guys think of professor e.gadd as a dark horse Mario pick?
He could utilize his inventions, the FLUDD and the the Poltergust and represent sunshine and Luigi’s mansion
Up special - FLUDD hoverjet
Neutral special - Poltergust suck
Forward special - Poltergust blow
Down special - he would steal mario’s

Pretty basic but that’s what I could come up with on the spot
True story, I've had two dreams where E. Gadd was announced for Smash Bros. Once with him summoning ghosts an another with him using inventions.

I don't know why. I'm not a fan of him or anything.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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What do you guys think of professor e.gadd as a dark horse Mario pick?
He could utilize his inventions, the FLUDD and the the Poltergust and represent sunshine and Luigi’s mansion
Up special - FLUDD hoverjet
Neutral special - Poltergust suck
Forward special - Poltergust blow
Down special - he would steal mario’s

Pretty basic but that’s what I could come up with on the spot
There's also elemental attacks with the poltergust and the flashlight to stun enemies, it'd be fun if he could summon ghosts too...hold on a sec, if luigi isn't gonna represent luigi's mansion outside of a final smash maybe I want E.Gadd lol

edit: ooh and the balloon from dark moon could be his recovery
 
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Sage of Ice

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If Platinum were allowed to do what they want I'm confident they'd evolve the series, probably beyond what we've already seen, remember these are the same people known for bayonetta, the wonderful 101, nier automata which essentially made Nier good and vanquish which is another shooter. And platinum loves their crazy characters and plots, they're an extremely creative studio and I'm sure they could create something great.

I agree about the story and the on-foot gameplay especially, I like star fox but I'd like it a hell of a lot more if it incorporated shooter elements, plus that would make the series far more marketable to a far wider audience.

But it wouldn't be retconning since it's an alternate universe, and that allows them to bring in the good stuff the original timeline brought us like krystal, while being able to forget about the bad, like the entirety of command

didn't someone who worked on Zero say that they'd wanna include Krystal if a sequel got the green light? fingers crossed...

edit: found it! right here.

also - i still wanna see a new Zelda character. we've had the same selection since Melee and a newcomer is long overdue. ideally i'd have midna or ghirahim (or both!) upgraded to playable, but if their time in the sun has passed then i'm not sure who i'd rather see. would it be greedy to want all four of BotW's Champions?
 
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MoonlitIllusion

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didn't someone who worked on Zero say that they'd wanna include Krystal if a sequel got the green light? fingers crossed...

also - i still wanna see a new Zelda character. we've had the same selection since Melee and a newcomer is long overdue. ideally i'd have midna or ghirahim (or both!) upgraded to playable, but if their time in the sun has passed then i'm not sure who i'd rather see. would it be greedy to want all four of BotW's Champions?
Yes, that was Zero's director.
There's hope!!

I think four champions is pushing it, I say 2 at most, mipha and daruk would be nice, and a playable goron and zora would be neat
 
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Cosmic77

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I wouldn't mind if Platinum were allowed to hold onto the reigns longer, and double down on Zero's timeline. Perhaps it would allow for Star Fox to finally cement itself with a developer and gameplay style, since one of Star Fox's greatest problems is that it's been passed between developers too many times with too drastic of views. Star Fox has been developed by Nintendo, Argonaut Software, Rare, Namco, Q-Games, and now Platinum. This, and the games each company has made, has caused Star Fox to go through an identity problem.

The problem I have with Platinum continuing with Star Fox is that I don't see them taking Star Fox in a direction where it can really evolve. Personally, I feel the best way for the series to evolve is to go the route of Assault. On-foot combat, a strong narrative, and multiplayer are all things I feel helped progress Star Fox forward. With the Switch's controls, a new story that can maybe span multiple installments, and online multiplayer are the three things I hope most to see with a possible Star Fox on Switch. Although the thing I want most with a new Star Fox game is for it to fly off shelves, and officially resurrect Star Fox.

Plus, continuing with Zero would result in possibly retconning the events of Star Fox Adventures, Star Fox: Assault, and Star Fox: Command. Adventures, although a marker for the degradation of the series, did bring a lot of elements into the Star Fox universe that it lacked, and brought us Krystal, who I really don't want to see be forgotten. Star Fox: Assault is one of my favorite games of all time, and I'd hate to see that game's story also be thrown away. Hell, even Star Fox Command brought a lot to the table with the universe.
To somewhat sum up what you said, Star Fox needs to go the "Breath of the Wild route". It needs to step out of its comfort zone and do something so unique and original that it would be attractive to both longtime fans and newbies. Clearly rehashing the same Star Fox 64 formula isn't going to work, so if Nintendo ever wants to turn Star Fox into a franchise worth supporting, its gonna need to expand on it's characters, incorporate competitive play, and add elements the series isn't known for.

What do you guys think of professor e.gadd as a dark horse Mario pick?
He could utilize his inventions, the FLUDD and the the Poltergust and represent sunshine and Luigi’s mansion
Up special - FLUDD hoverjet
Neutral special - Poltergust suck
Forward special - Poltergust blow
Down special - he would steal mario’s

Pretty basic but that’s what I could come up with on the spot
E. Gadd could work, but I feel like most of the stuff involving FLUDD and the Poltergust would be better suited for Mario and Luigi respectively.

also - i still wanna see a new Zelda character. we've had the same selection since Melee and a newcomer is long overdue. ideally i'd have midna or ghirahim (or both!) upgraded to playable, but if their time in the sun has passed then i'm not sure who i'd rather see. would it be greedy to want all four of BotW's Champions?
Four Zelda newcomers at once?! At this point, we'd be lucky to get just one! :laugh:

Four doesn't seem very likely, but I might be able to see two Champions happening if there's enough time. BotW did fantastic in just about every aspect, so there's no question about whether or not it deserves two characters. Plus, two Champions would do us the favor of representing the other Zelda races aside from the Hylians.

Still, that seems like a pipe dream at the moment. For now, I'd suggest crossing your fingers for one. If one of the four Champions actually gets announced at E3 or sooner, perhaps another one could be saved as an unlockable character or a later reveal.
 

CBO0tz

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I made some changes to my wishlist to make it into a "more likely" newcomer wishlist.

Newcomers:
1. Inkling
2. LaboMan
3. Spring Man/Ribbon Girl
4. Rex (& Pyra)
5. Toad
6. Waluigi
7. Dixie Kong
8. King K. Rool
9. Midna
10. Ganon
11. Dark Samus
12. Ridley
13. Bandana Dee
14. Marx
15. Krystal
16. Wolf
17. Decidueye
18. Black Shadow
19. Ninten
20. Porky
21. Chrom
22. Isaac
23. Snake
24. Rayman
25. Shantae


Still not gonna change my wishlist in my signature bc those characters would be my mains, but this list gives newcomers to each of the original Smash 64 franchises new playable characters.
 

Guybrush20X6

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What would your reaction be if we do get one of the Champions as a newcomer?
"Wow, neat!"
"Wonder why they chose [X] over [Y]."
"I wonder if this improves Midna's chances down the line."
 

Pokechu

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to be honest, i'm gonna be surprised if mipha doesn't make it in.

Not only is she the most popular champion out of the four from the well-received BOTW, but she is the most unique of them all as she uses a trident, which no other character on the roster uses. Also, she's a Zora, a species in Zelda that has been there since the start, so no matter what she'll always have a niche as she's not going to be completely phased out like how Midna was because it's very likely we'll see Zoras again, while I wouldn't bank on seeing Midna or an imp like her again unless they did a TP 2, and even then Zoras would still have more appearances.
 

MrReyes96

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E. Gadd could work, but I feel like most of the stuff involving FLUDD and the Poltergust would be better suited for Mario and Luigi respectively.
Well that’s true, but I think at least Mario is better off with a new move instead of FLUDD, and this way the FLUDD can be used in more than one way, and i think luigi’s moveset is good as is

to be honest, i'm gonna be surprised if mipha doesn't make it in.

Not only is she the most popular champion out of the four from the well-received BOTW, but she is the most unique of them all as she uses a trident, which no other character on the roster uses. Also, she's a Zora, a species in Zelda that has been there since the start, so no matter what she'll always have a niche as she's not going to be completely phased out like how Midna was because it's very likely we'll see Zoras again, while I wouldn't bank on seeing Midna or an imp like her again unless they did a TP 2, and even then Zoras would still have more appearances.
I think everyone has a different idea of who is the most popular champion, I’ve heard it being argued for all of them. I think what’s more likely is that their abilities are used by either Zelda or Link. Link could even use their weapons in his moveset. For example daruk’s for his forward smash and Mipha’s trident for his down air.

And I think Sidon is more popular than his sister so she has that to compete with
 

FlareHabanero

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Glad to see the tradition of forcing yet another character of the month from the Zelda series is still strong as ever.

So hows that Ghirahim and Skull Kid?
 
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Opossum

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. The whole 'she damages herself while using magic' is just how magic was handled in Gaiden in general (ALL mages hurt themselves while casting), and doesn't suit her character and class archetype on the whole. Not every mechanic has to be ported over to 'stay true to the source' if it doesn't fit well in Smash.
I'd argue it absolutely suits her character. Without going into spoiler territory, self-sacrifice for the greater good is one of the core aspects of her character. The fact that that lines up perfectly with Gaiden/SoV's Magic system is just icing on the cake, making it the perfect thing to incorporate into her moveset.
 

Cosmic77

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What would your reaction be if we do get one of the Champions as a newcomer?
I'd be ecstatic, but I'm sure anyone who lurks in this thread knows that I'm a huge advocate for the Champions.

Although I have to admit, I'm worried about how those who don't want the Champions will respond. I'd hate for people to bash the Champion so much that Sakurai refuses to put in another Zelda character for the next two Smash games.

to be honest, i'm gonna be surprised if mipha doesn't make it in.

Not only is she the most popular champion out of the four from the well-received BOTW, but she is the most unique of them all as she uses a trident, which no other character on the roster uses. Also, she's a Zora, a species in Zelda that has been there since the start, so no matter what she'll always have a niche as she's not going to be completely phased out like how Midna was because it's very likely we'll see Zoras again, while I wouldn't bank on seeing Midna or an imp like her again unless they did a TP 2, and even then Zoras would still have more appearances.
Gorons and Zora are a series staple, so both Mipha and Daruk would be good choices. Unfortunately, only one of the two is popular among the fans. Here's a hint: it ain't Mipha.

Not sure if I share the same level of confidence in Mipha, but I'd be very surprised if none of the Champions get a playable role. If not them, then I can't see any other Zelda character getting in Smash.

Well that’s true, but I think at least Mario is better off with a new move instead of FLUDD, and this way the FLUDD can be used in more than one way, and i think luigi’s moveset is good as is

I think everyone has a different idea of who is the most popular champion, I’ve heard it being argued for all of them. I think what’s more likely is that their abilities are used by either Zelda or Link. Link could even use their weapons in his moveset. For example daruk’s for his forward smash and Mipha’s trident for his down air.

And I think Sidon is more popular than his sister so she has that to compete with
The only two I think you could argue in worldwide popularity is Mipha and Urbosa. The only reason why I'd argue Mipha is more popular is because Japan has done a poor job of hiding their favorite Champion (Mipha). Over there, Revali and Urbosa are more equal, while Daruk is...still sitting at the bottom.
 

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Glad to see the tradition of forcing yet another character of the month from the Zelda series is still strong as ever.

So hows that Ghirahim and Skull Kid?
Remind me when Nintendo gave Ghirahim his own amiibo and a DLC expansion based around him again?
 

Pokechu

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I think everyone has a different idea of who is the most popular champion, I’ve heard it being argued for all of them. I think what’s more likely is that their abilities are used by either Zelda or Link. Link could even use their weapons in his moveset. For example daruk’s for his forward smash and Mipha’s trident for his down air.

And I think Sidon is more popular than his sister so she has that to compete with
I don't think Link will get a moveset change as those moves would be rendered outdated once the new Zelda game hits so it'd be strange for Link to still be using the champion's weapons, especially when he has his own arsenal he can and does already use.

None of the champions are unpopular but even if Mipha isn't the most popular (I personally think she is), she still has the closest relation to Link and has more going for her as Zoras are a mainstay race in Zelda that isn't represent in Smash, while Gerudos at least have Ganondorf. Daruk is a Goron so he'd have his own niche as well but there's less uniqueness to be found in his moveset as characters on the roster already use hammers. Mipha and her trident would be entirely new.

also Sidon is popular but I don't think he's more popular than Mipha but IDK I could be wrong, but even if he is then that's not blocking Mipha's inclusion as she has more plot importance and potential going for her. To be honest putting Sidon in would be like putting Kass in and no one's asking for him to be in over any of the champions :laugh:
 

Pokechu

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Gorons and Zora are a series staple, so both Mipha and Daruk would be good choices. Unfortunately, only one of the two is popular among the fans. Here's a hint: it ain't Mipha.

Not sure if I share the same level of confidence in Mipha, but I'd be very surprised if none of the Champions get a playable role. If not them, then I can't see any other Zelda character getting in Smash.
Personally I see the most love for Mipha and Urbosa, if anything, Daruk seems like he's the least popular.

Mipha seems the most likely to me due to her unique weapon, worldwide popularity like you said, her close relation to Link, and how she's a Zora. If she gets beat by any of the other three then I'd be shocked.
 

AlphaSSB

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If Platinum were allowed to do what they want I'm confident they'd evolve the series, probably beyond what we've already seen, remember these are the same people known for bayonetta, the wonderful 101, nier automata which essentially made Nier good and vanquish which is another shooter. And platinum loves their crazy characters and plots, they're an extremely creative studio and I'm sure they could create something great.

I agree about the story and the on-foot gameplay especially, I like star fox but I'd like it a hell of a lot more if it incorporated shooter elements, plus that would make the series far more marketable to a far wider audience.

But it wouldn't be retconning since it's an alternate universe, and that allows them to bring in the good stuff the original timeline brought us like krystal, while being able to forget about the bad, like the entirety of command
That's the thing. I'm not sure what I think of Platinum. Bayonetta is a series I've despised long before she was in Smash. Wonderful 101 I've heard decent things about, but sold even worse that Star Fox Zero. Nier Automata is another series I've heard a lot of good things about, but I really know nothing much of it. Vanquish is a name I've heard, but that's literally it. Platinum continuing with Star Fox is a benefit, as it helps put a stop to the constant developer changes, but I also see it as a detriment because I don't completely trust them. Best thing Platinum has is their music. Zero's soundtrack was phenomenal.

As for it being in an alternate universe, that's something I hope Star Fox can stop with. We have three universes now. The original Star Fox & Star Fox 2 universe, the Star Fox 64 timeline the rest of the games built a timeline off of, and now a third universe that hasn't really brought anything. They could potentially rehash the Adventures and Assault timelines, polishing them by removing the bad and keeping the good, and could even create a canon story that fit Command's narrative. Or, they could make a game that would take place between Zero and the events of Adventures.

I'd still much rather we stick to the already established timeline. Either declare Command non-canon and make a new game that takes place after Assault, declare a specific Command ending as canon (Endings 1 or 3 most likely) and build a new game that takes place after it, or create a game that is a canon re-telling of Command's narrative. Although, if sticking with this new universe is what Star Fox truly needs, I won't fight it as long as it bring the series back. I just hope they don't leave Adventures and Assault behind along the way.

To somewhat sum up what you said, Star Fox needs to go the "Breath of the Wild route". It needs to step out of its comfort zone and do something so unique and original that it would be attractive to both longtime fans and newbies. Clearly rehashing the same Star Fox 64 formula isn't going to work, so if Nintendo ever wants to turn Star Fox into a franchise worth supporting, its gonna need to expand on it's characters, incorporate competitive play, and add elements the series isn't known for.
Amen, Cosmic! This is the most accurate way to sum up my thoughts, and what I feel is truly the most accurate way for Star Fox to make it's comeback. Star Fox has so much potential, Nintendo just needs to see it. As long as it doesn't completely forget what it was with a new direction, I'm all for this.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Well that’s true, but I think at least Mario is better off with a new move instead of FLUDD, and this way the FLUDD can be used in more than one way, and i think luigi’s moveset is good as is



I think everyone has a different idea of who is the most popular champion, I’ve heard it being argued for all of them. I think what’s more likely is that their abilities are used by either Zelda or Link. Link could even use their weapons in his moveset. For example daruk’s for his forward smash and Mipha’s trident for his down air.

And I think Sidon is more popular than his sister so she has that to compete with
Yeah I don't think that's gonna happen, I think Link is gonna use his runes and Zelda the champion abilities but their normals are likely gonna stay the same for the most part, I don't see them giving link a spear or an axe anytime soon. Another thing for mipha, it's gonna be very hard to implement her champion ability to a character like Zelda while the other 3 are easily adaptable.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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That's the thing. I'm not sure what I think of Platinum. Bayonetta is a series I've despised long before she was in Smash. Wonderful 101 I've heard decent things about, but sold even worse that Star Fox Zero. Nier Automata is another series I've heard a lot of good things about, but I really know nothing much of it. Vanquish is a name I've heard, but that's literally it. Platinum continuing with Star Fox is a benefit, as it helps put a stop to the constant developer changes, but I also see it as a detriment because I don't completely trust them. Best thing Platinum has is their music. Zero's soundtrack was phenomenal.

As for it being in an alternate universe, that's something I hope Star Fox can stop with. We have three universes now. The original Star Fox & Star Fox 2 universe, the Star Fox 64 timeline the rest of the games built a timeline off of, and now a third universe that hasn't really brought anything. They could potentially rehash the Adventures and Assault timelines, polishing them by removing the bad and keeping the good, and could even create a canon story that fit Command's narrative. Or, they could make a game that would take place between Zero and the events of Adventures.

I'd still much rather we stick to the already established timeline. Either declare Command non-canon and make a new game that takes place after Assault, declare a specific Command ending as canon (Endings 1 or 3 most likely) and build a new game that takes place after it, or create a game that is a canon re-telling of Command's narrative. Although, if sticking with this new universe is what Star Fox truly needs, I won't fight it as long as it bring the series back. I just hope they don't leave Adventures and Assault behind along the way.

Amen, Cosmic! This is the most accurate way to sum up my thoughts, and what I feel is truly the most accurate way for Star Fox to make it's comeback. Star Fox has so much potential, Nintendo just needs to see it. As long as it doesn't completely forget what it was with a new direction, I'm all for this.
honestly just look up vanquishes gameplay, doing something like that but with star fox would be dope.

And yeah we already have 3 universes, we might as well stick with this one and see where it goes, there's literally no reason to bring back the old timeline by this point, it's been well over 10 years since it's had a game after all, most people barely remember it while Zero is fresh in people's minds anyway.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Another thing for mipha, it's gonna be very hard to implement her champion ability to a character like Zelda while the other 3 are easily adaptable.
Well they have taken liberties before (like changing Din's fire from a too cool to use attack in Ocarina to actively suicidal to use in Smash) So they could take some liberties with Mipha's grace.
 

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Skyward Sword was released at a time when Nintendo wasn't making DLC or amiibo. That's not a far comparison.
It's just another example of marketing. Ghirahim had nothing like that. Meanwhile Nintendo has continuously marketed the Champions to the point that they're likely fairly recognizable even to those who haven't purchased Breath of the Wild.
 
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I'd argue it absolutely suits her character. Without going into spoiler territory, self-sacrifice for the greater good is one of the core aspects of her character. The fact that that lines up perfectly with Gaiden/SoV's Magic system is just icing on the cake, making it the perfect thing to incorporate into her moveset.
I guess I spoke too soon. I'm still on Act 3 in my playthrough so I haven't seen everything yet. Don't know how it would work if she had a heal spell (unless it was only for teams or something), but it sounds more palatable. I still think she should forego the anima magic in favor of the dark/light & support stuff though.
 
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Godzillathewonderdog

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It's just another example of marketing. Ghirahim had nothing like that. Meanwhile Nintendo has continuously marketed the Champions to the point that they're likely fairly recognizable even to those who haven't purchased Breath of the Wild.
So are we assuming Sakurai knew about the Champions DLC and amiibo when he decided the roster, and that's what made him decide to add a Champion into Smash?
 

Bowserlick

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Star Fox should have a mercenary system when you go to bars (like the Mos Eisley Cantina) to pick up missions from seedy characters.
 
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Danpal65

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Star Fox should have a mercenary system when you go to bars (like the Mos Eisley Cantina) to pick up missions from seedy characters.
I dunno. I do like the idea of them getting missions from somewhere, but Star Fox isn't exactly a dodgy mercenary group, they're basically a do-gooder team that rescues people across the Lylat System. They are animal Thunderbirds, which makes sense since Minamoto was inspired by them and it was freakin' huge in Japan.
 

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So are we assuming Sakurai knew about the Champions DLC and amiibo when he decided the roster, and that's what made him decide to add a Champion into Smash?
Not necessarily. I do think, however, that Nintendo had it planned out in advance, and it could have been something brought to Sakurai's attention if he asked them about the roster. We know Breath of the Wild content is obviously already in the game, so I don't think it's too far fetched that Sakurai may have learned about some of the long term stuff dealing with the game, like that they'd be pushing the Champions.
 

Bowserlick

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I dunno. I do like the idea of them getting missions from somewhere, but Star Fox isn't exactly a dodgy mercenary group, they're basically a do-gooder team that rescues people across the Lylat System. They are animal Thunderbirds, which makes sense since Minamoto was inspired by them and it was freakin' huge in Japan.
Good point. The game should be Star Wolf.
 
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MoonlitIllusion

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I'm gonna be as realistic as possible and say 10 newcomers on the base roster.
tbh I don't think that's realistic, I'm fully expecting more. We've got a dev cycle of over 2 years, one version of the game, no story mode and all the veterans are probably going to be straight ports over from wii u
 
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