Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

He’s really popular, even if I prefer incineroar I can tell from just the reception he has had he has a larger fan base than the other two.

The popularity polls must be rather slow to update, since last I've checked, Primarina is the most popular of the fully evolved 7th generation starters, followed by Incineroar. Decidueye doesn't even get mentioned at any point.

Anyway, as far as I know, the only real advantage that Decidueye has right now is that it's the only playable 7th generation Pokemon in Pokken Tournament DX. But being a Pokken Tournament contender doesn't exactly guarantee a position as a Smash Bros. contender, even though it would seem cool to fight as Blastoise, Sceptile, or Blaziken.

 

[MrReyes96]

Rather than make both a prediction roster and dream roster, I thought I'd just go all out and make a 100 character roster with a mix of both.

My predictions are Captain Toad, Dixie, K. Rool, Waluigi, Impa, Ganon, Decidueye, Ridley, Isabelle, Bandana Dee, Wolf, Isabelle, a second splatoon rep, Elma, Rex, Lyn, Springman, Ice Climbers, Takamaru, Phoenix Wright, and Bomberman.
The rest is characters that I would add, I don't mind clones or characters with similar movesets so I added some of those.
I don't expect that many third party characters but these are the ones I think would make the most sense.

You can tell me how much you love it, how much it sucks, or just ignore and keep scrolling I see you

 

[SonicMario]

I'm under the impression that we are going to have less newcomers overall unless there are several cuts. I'd like to believe that Sakurai is trying the "no cuts" route with a smaller newcomer list than normal, because losing characters sucks really bad. Also if I expect less newcomers, then I'll be excited when there's actually a strong number of them.

Yeah that's where I'm kinda at too. I feel Smash Switch will have the least amount of added Newcomers (main-game wise) in a long while assuming hardly anyone from Smash 4 gets cut and especially if everyone who was DLC in Smash 4 is included right away. But to make up for it, the DLC period will be longer and provide more new characters over time. And even if there are cuts from Smash 4, most characters can return eventually as DLC, even though it would kinda suck to have to pay for them for some people just because they likely ran out of time to include them.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Yeah that's where I'm kinda at too. I feel Smash Switch will have the least amount of added Newcomers (main-game wise) in a long while assuming hardly anyone from Smash 4 gets cut and especially if everyone who was DLC in Smash 4 is included right away. But to make up for it, the DLC period will be longer and provide more new characters over time. And even if there are cuts from Smash 4, most characters can return eventually as DLC, even though it would kinda suck to have to pay for them for some people just because they likely ran out of time to include them.

Ten seems reasonable. That will make 65 characters + 3 Mii Fighters.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Why is everybody assuming we'll only get one Pokemon newcomer? Other than SM4SH, we've gotten 2 in every single game - Pikachu/Jigglypuff, Mewtwo/Pichu, Pokemon Trainer/Lucario, Reworked Charizard/Greninja.

We can get Decidueye and Mimikyu, we don't have to fight and minimize the popularity and moveset potential of one to prop up the other when they're both popular, both have moveset potential, and both are likely on their own merits, so ¿Porque no los dos?

EDIT: Unless you throw Bewear in there, then you can fight to the death.

I don't think we'll get 2 pokemon from the same generation tbh

Yeah that's where I'm kinda at too. I feel Smash Switch will have the least amount of added Newcomers (main-game wise) in a long while assuming hardly anyone from Smash 4 gets cut and especially if everyone who was DLC in Smash 4 is included right away. But to make up for it, the DLC period will be longer and provide more new characters over time. And even if there are cuts from Smash 4, most characters can return eventually as DLC, even though it would kinda suck to have to pay for them for some people just because they likely ran out of time to include them.

Yeah, I'm expecting around 10 newcomers too, not counting the return of Wolf and Icies which are bound to happen

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Excitebiker was rejected in Melee because Sakurai couldn't realistically make him jump.

But if you think about it, Bowser Jr. doesn't "jump" as much as he just props himself up. Excitebiker could do a similar thing.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Rather than make both a prediction roster and dream roster, I thought I'd just go all out and make a 100 character roster with a mix of both.

My predictions are Captain Toad, Dixie, K. Rool, Waluigi, Impa, Ganon, Decidueye, Ridley, Isabelle, Bandana Dee, Wolf, Isabelle, a second splatoon rep, Elma, Rex, Lyn, Springman, Ice Climbers, Takamaru, Phoenix Wright, and Bomberman.
The rest is characters that I would add, I don't mind clones or characters with similar movesets so I added some of those.
I don't expect that many third party characters but these are the ones I think would make the most sense.

You can tell me how much you love it, how much it sucks, or just ignore and keep scrolling I see you

Overall, I very much like it. But there are a few things I'm not sure about:

The amount of ARMS characters, and the addition of the Squid Sisters. Also, I would have chosen Henry Fleming instead of Honest Abe. However, I pretty much am OK with literally everything else on here.

 

[MrReyes96]

Overall, I very much like it. But there are a few things I'm not sure about:

The amount of ARMS characters, and the addition of the Squid Sisters. Also, I would have chosen Henry Fleming instead of Honest Abe. However, I pretty much am OK with literally everything else on here.

Ribbon Girl would be a semi-clone of springman, Dr. Coyle is the main villain and she has unique things that could be cool in smash, and Mechanica is my main in ARMS so I added her out of bias, but I do think she would also be unique as a heavy female fighter with good aerial mobility.
Squid Sisters I've discussed before, I think depending on how inklings play, you can use them to represent the sniper and the roller in their movesets since they are also secret agents, and they are very popular. I don't think they're likely but it would be nice to have actual characters instead of just "inklings".
And as far as Henry I was going to add him instead but the icon for him didn't look at good as Abe's. But yes I would put the him over Abe.
Glad you liked the rest!

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

If springman gets in they better make ribbongirl a clone, springman is lame as hell tbh and they're both on that cover art, they both deserve

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Spring Man would be a pretty cool fighter, what's with the hate?

 

[MrReyes96]

If springman gets in they better make ribbongirl a clone, springman is lame as hell tbh and they're both on that cover art, they both deserve

Spoiler

 

[FlareHabanero]

I do agree with the point about Ribbon Girl though. She's just as prominent as Spring Man, constantly making appearances in artwork and such. She even sings the main ARMS theme if you meet certain conditions. Ideally both Spring Man and Ribbon Girl should get in based on that. The clone aspect though is more subjective.

 

[IanTheGamer]

You know, I personally think Smash 5, being that it's Smash's 20th Anniversary game, should be primarily fanservice, as a celebration of Smash's history, meaning popular veterans cut from Smash 4 and longtime popular Smash newcomer requests (K Rool, Krystal, Geno, etc.) should be playable fighters. Also Smash 5 should be released in 2019, as part of the 20th Anniversary

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Spring Man would be a pretty cool fighter, what's with the hate?

He'd be alright, I just don't like his design very much, he feels generic compared to the rest of the awesome cast.

Spoiler

I said he's lame, fight me sis

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Spring Man would be a pretty cool fighter, what's with the hate?

Pretty sure it's because people thing Spring Man is boring in comparison to the other ARMS characters, and as such would rather have them.

I never played ARMS so I'm indifferent on the matter, but Spring Man is 100% gonna be the first character from that game added considering he's the poster child. Having someone else instead of him would be like having Pokemon characters but no Pikachu.

 

[MrReyes96]

He'd be alright, I just don't like his design very much, he feels generic compared to the rest of the awesome cast.


I said he's lame, fight me sis

He's basically your typical shounen anime protaganist, he is pretty basic but I think he's cool.
Though I do like all the character designs in arms, any of them would fit right in with the smash cast

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

He's basically your typical shounen anime protaganist, he is pretty basic but I think he's cool.
Though I do like all the character designs in arms, any of them would fit right in with the smash cast

Twintelle remains the best character

 

[MrReyes96]

Twintelle remains the best character

That's not how you spell Mechanica
Though I do like twintelle. unfortunately for her smash wise, her ability is very similar to bayonetta's.
Or maybe that works in her favor

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Could Isaac be a returning Assist Trophy for this game?

 

[CodeBlue_]

I'll take my shot on the Decidueye/Incineroar conversation:

https://www.nowgamer.com/pokemon-in-super-smash-bros-how-theyre-selected/

This is the interview I could find (linked from SourceGaming) regarding Sakurai's inclusion of Greninja.

“Well first of all, we talk with the Pokemon company,” explained designer Masahiro Sakurai when we put the question to him. “What’s the hot Pokemon? What Pokemon are in the movies right now? And really do a lot of research on that front.

“For example, X and Y are coming out – of course, we haven’t done any market research because they’re not out yet, but we look at the animated series or movies and anything like that and again, find out which ones are going to be central to any of conversations in Pokemon going forward.

“But it’s not just that – going back to just what we talked about, what’s unique about them? Where do they fit in with the rest of everything else? What do they have? It’s a combination of those things.”

It seems to me that Sakurai finds both marketability and uniqueness as valuable. The problem is, however, that is significantly more pushed as a character than any Sun and Moon character. Thus, he is a character that is "central to conversations in Pokemon" as he is has a significant role. This is also true with , having a major role in his movie and then being one of the primary Mega Evolutions showed in X and Y.

I personally feel a Sun and Moon rep would be pushed more for the second category: their uniqueness and fit for Smash. I have concerns with Incineroar and Mimikyu in the latter category specifically.

Incineroar would be a good representative (and has a good potential to be unique) but there's a good chance Sakurai might obt for Litten instead to represent Ash's Pokemon. Mimikyu (and by extention Bewear) is the definition of the dark horse pick, but it's also very likely to be a Pokeball Pokemon as I feel their design probably won't be well received in the west.

As for Decidueye, he might suffer a similar situation as Incineroar (with Rowlett being a Pokeball Pokemon), but is more fit for the Smash role and has a lot more potential moveset wise. Compare Decidueye to Greninja, where his fits a more popular archetype (Ninja and Robin Hood Archer) than Incineroar (Wrestler). That's why I feel many people advocate for him.

My thoughts on a Sun and Moon rep come down to either Incineroar, Decidueye a movie Pokemon (lol Zeraora, I would love him as a pick) or no Sun and Moon rep at all.

 

[Blargg888]

Rather than make both a prediction roster and dream roster, I thought I'd just go all out and make a 100 character roster with a mix of both.

My predictions are Captain Toad, Dixie, K. Rool, Waluigi, Impa, Ganon, Decidueye, Ridley, Isabelle, Bandana Dee, Wolf, Isabelle, a second splatoon rep, Elma, Rex, Lyn, Springman, Ice Climbers, Takamaru, Phoenix Wright, and Bomberman.
The rest is characters that I would add, I don't mind clones or characters with similar movesets so I added some of those.
I don't expect that many third party characters but these are the ones I think would make the most sense.

You can tell me how much you love it, how much it sucks, or just ignore and keep scrolling I see you

That's not a 100 character roster, that's a 98 character roster.

You know, I personally think Smash 5, being that it's Smash's 20th Anniversary game, should be primarily fanservice, as a celebration of Smash's history, meaning popular veterans cut from Smash 4 and longtime popular Smash newcomer requests (K Rool, Krystal, Geno, etc.) should be playable fighters. Also Smash 5 should be released in 2019, as part of the 20th Anniversary

Oh man, if Smash 5 was the ultimate celebration of Smash, featuring every character that's been playable across the series, I'd be so happy.

Granted, that's not gonna happen, but I can always dream.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Could Isaac be a returning Assist Trophy for this game?

Hard to say. As far as I know Golden Sun isn't referenced anywhere in Smash 4, barring maybe like a music track.

I can see Sakurai throwing the fans a bone though and restoring his AT role. Maybe even a Mii Costume.

 

[IanTheGamer]

That's not a 100 character roster, that's a 98 character roster.

Oh man, if Smash 5 was the ultimate celebration of Smash, featuring every character that's been playable across the series, I'd be so happy.

Granted, that's not gonna happen, but I can always dream.

Not necessarily every Smash character, but the most popular veterans that were cut from past Smash games, and longtime popular newcomer requests that have yet to be playable in Smash

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

That's not how you spell Mechanica
Though I do like twintelle. unfortunately for her smash wise, her ability is very similar to bayonetta's.
Or maybe that works in her favor

While she would make a more interesting character, twintelle is still the better gorl, sorry bout it

Hard to say. As far as I know Golden Sun isn't referenced anywhere in Smash 4, barring maybe like a music track.

I can see Sakurai throwing the fans a bone though and restoring his AT role. Maybe even a Mii Costume.

For all we know he did amazingly on the ballot and he's playable. (Prolly not tho)

 

[Deleted member]

Excitebiker was rejected in Melee because Sakurai couldn't realistically make him jump.

But if you think about it, Bowser Jr. doesn't "jump" as much as he just props himself up. Excitebiker could do a similar thing.

Jr. is also in a vehicle that can propel itself upwards.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Can we get a Mother/EarthBound discussion going today? It's Mother 3's 12th anniversary.

Giygas already got a Rate That Character video by Source Gaming, so aside from him, any characters you guys would like to see out of that series? Porky? Masked Man? Ninten? Sans?

I could see Kumatora getting an Assist Trophy this time around. We've had Jeff and a Starman, all that leaves is someone from Mother 3.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

How would you feel if Spring Man was a last minute "semi clone" of Little Mac?

His punches would obviously have longer reach, and his stats would be more balanced. He wouldn't have the power meter, but he would have the unique ability to change between different arms that cause different elemental damage.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Jr. is also in a vehicle that can propel itself upwards.

And he attacks with cannonballs, drills, hammers etc. Excitebiker doesn't have anything to attack with besides his bike

 

[Ridel]

I think Porky would be a perfect third Mother rep, though not happening imo. He is basically the central villains of the franchise and god knows Smash needs some more villains.

 

[MrReyes96]

How would you feel if Spring Man was a last minute "semi clone" of Little Mac?

His punches would obviously have longer reach, and his stats would be more balanced. He wouldn't have the power meter, but he would have the unique ability to change between different arms that cause different elemental damage.

I’d rather have a punch out character be a semi-clone of little Mac
I don’t want another captain falcon Ganondorf situation
Besides, ARMS isn’t about rapid close range punches, it’s the opposite

 

[92MilesPrower]

How would you feel if Spring Man was a last minute "semi clone" of Little Mac?

His punches would obviously have longer reach, and his stats would be more balanced. He wouldn't have the power meter, but he would have the unique ability to change between different arms that cause different elemental damage.

Have you forgotten how there's different weapons other than just the gloves? You've got the poppers, dragons, shields, boomerangs, birds, and other stuff. They can all be implemented in a moveset in some way.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I’d rather have a punch out character be a semi-clone of little Mac
I don’t want another captain falcon Ganondorf situation
Besides, ARMS isn’t about rapid close range punches, it’s the opposite

His punches would be slower and longer reach. Clones can have significant differences.

Have you forgotten how there's different weapons other than just the gloves? You've got the poppers, dragons, shields, boomerangs, birds, and other stuff. They can all be implemented in a moveset in some way.

That doesn't answer my question.

I'm not saying you couldn't make him unique. This is just a scenario I want to see people's thoughts on.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I think Porky would be a perfect third Mother rep, though not happening imo. He is basically the central villains of the franchise and god knows Smash needs some more villains.

He's got a whole spider mech, that's dope as ****, if they're gonna add another earthbound character it better be him

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I'll take my shot on the Decidueye/Incineroar conversation:

https://www.nowgamer.com/pokemon-in-super-smash-bros-how-theyre-selected/

This is the interview I could find (linked from SourceGaming) regarding Sakurai's inclusion of Greninja.

“Well first of all, we talk with the Pokemon company,” explained designer Masahiro Sakurai when we put the question to him. “What’s the hot Pokemon? What Pokemon are in the movies right now? And really do a lot of research on that front.

“For example, X and Y are coming out – of course, we haven’t done any market research because they’re not out yet, but we look at the animated series or movies and anything like that and again, find out which ones are going to be central to any of conversations in Pokemon going forward.

“But it’s not just that – going back to just what we talked about, what’s unique about them? Where do they fit in with the rest of everything else? What do they have? It’s a combination of those things.”

It seems to me that Sakurai finds both marketability and uniqueness as valuable. The problem is, however, that is significantly more pushed as a character than any Sun and Moon character. Thus, he is a character that is "central to conversations in Pokemon" as he is has a significant role. This is also true with , having a major role in his movie and then being one of the primary Mega Evolutions showed in X and Y.

I personally feel a Sun and Moon rep would be pushed more for the second category: their uniqueness and fit for Smash. I have concerns with Incineroar and Mimikyu in the latter category specifically.

Incineroar would be a good representative (and has a good potential to be unique) but there's a good chance Sakurai might obt for Litten instead to represent Ash's Pokemon. Mimikyu (and by extention Bewear) is the definition of the dark horse pick, but it's also very likely to be a Pokeball Pokemon as I feel their design probably won't be well received in the west.

As for Decidueye, he might suffer a similar situation as Incineroar (with Rowlett being a Pokeball Pokemon), but is more fit for the Smash role and has a lot more potential moveset wise. Compare Decidueye to Greninja, where his fits a more popular archetype (Ninja and Robin Hood Archer) than Incineroar (Wrestler). That's why I feel many people advocate for him.

My thoughts on a Sun and Moon rep come down to either Incineroar, Decidueye a movie Pokemon (lol Zeraora, I would love him as a pick) or no Sun and Moon rep at all.

Greninja wasn't chosen because of popularity and being a "central character". Sakurai chose him off a couple of concept art given by the Pokemon Company (the others I'd persume we're the other starters maybe some other Gen 6 Pokemon like Hawlucha).

I don't see how the "what's the hot Pokemon" would relate to gen 7. Why would he just look at the second part as you said? I think that's going to be just as important for him when looking for a Sun and Moon Pokemon.

 

[MrReyes96]

His punches would be slower and longer reach. Clones can have significant differences.

That doesn't answer my question.

I'm not saying you couldn't make him unique. This is just a scenario I want to see people's thoughts on.

I still couldn’t see anything else fitting him
They may both be boxing type characters but they’re completely different aside from punching
I can’t see any of his special moves fitting spring man except maybe his up special

 

[Senselessbreak]

This probably got discussed but I was amused with this. I normally find Dorkly humor cringe worthy, but this one was decent. Was it was longer though.

 

[MrReyes96]

This probably got discussed but I was amused with this. I normally find Dorkly humor cringe worthy, but this one was decent. Was it was longer though.

This will be funny when Waluigi gets confirmed

I wouldn’t mind slippy as a newcomer either

 

[CodeBlue_]

Greninja wasn't chosen because of popularity and being a "central character". Sakurai chose him off a couple of concept art given by the Pokemon Company (the others I'd persume we're the other starters maybe some other Gen 6 Pokemon like Hawlucha).

I don't see how the "what's the hot Pokemon" would relate to gen 7. Why would he just look at the second part as you said? I think that's going to be just as important for him when looking for a Sun and Moon Pokemon.

I did hear about Sakurai choosing based on concept art, but this quote leads me in a slightly different direction. If Sakurai dkes base character choices on character art (as you mentioned), I would feel Decidueye would be even more likely, because his design would catch Sakurai's eye more. Also, I acknowledged that the "hot Pokemon" part of the interview fits more for Lucario and Greninja in the post.

Regardless, I don't think he would exclusively look at what Pokemon would fit into Smash when picking newcomers but it's a big part of it. He has to choose between these Pokemon as playable characters and Pokeball Pokemon. Sakurai has to picture playable characters "dancing in his head" and I don't see many Sun and Moon rep doing that.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'll take my shot on the Decidueye/Incineroar conversation:

https://www.nowgamer.com/pokemon-in-super-smash-bros-how-theyre-selected/

This is the interview I could find (linked from SourceGaming) regarding Sakurai's inclusion of Greninja.

“Well first of all, we talk with the Pokemon company,” explained designer Masahiro Sakurai when we put the question to him. “What’s the hot Pokemon? What Pokemon are in the movies right now? And really do a lot of research on that front.

“For example, X and Y are coming out – of course, we haven’t done any market research because they’re not out yet, but we look at the animated series or movies and anything like that and again, find out which ones are going to be central to any of conversations in Pokemon going forward.

“But it’s not just that – going back to just what we talked about, what’s unique about them? Where do they fit in with the rest of everything else? What do they have? It’s a combination of those things.”

It seems to me that Sakurai finds both marketability and uniqueness as valuable. The problem is, however, that is significantly more pushed as a character than any Sun and Moon character. Thus, he is a character that is "central to conversations in Pokemon" as he is has a significant role. This is also true with , having a major role in his movie and then being one of the primary Mega Evolutions showed in X and Y.

I personally feel a Sun and Moon rep would be pushed more for the second category: their uniqueness and fit for Smash. I have concerns with Incineroar and Mimikyu in the latter category specifically.

Incineroar would be a good representative (and has a good potential to be unique) but there's a good chance Sakurai might obt for Litten instead to represent Ash's Pokemon. Mimikyu (and by extention Bewear) is the definition of the dark horse pick, but it's also very likely to be a Pokeball Pokemon as I feel their design probably won't be well received in the west.

As for Decidueye, he might suffer a similar situation as Incineroar (with Rowlett being a Pokeball Pokemon), but is more fit for the Smash role and has a lot more potential moveset wise. Compare Decidueye to Greninja, where his fits a more popular archetype (Ninja and Robin Hood Archer) than Incineroar (Wrestler). That's why I feel many people advocate for him.

My thoughts on a Sun and Moon rep come down to either Incineroar, Decidueye a movie Pokemon (lol Zeraora, I would love him as a pick) or no Sun and Moon rep at all.

What's wrong with Mimikyu's design? It's the whole reason he's the most popular Sun & Moon Pokemon. Globally!

 

[Opossum]

You know, I personally think Smash 5, being that it's Smash's 20th Anniversary game, should be primarily fanservice, as a celebration of Smash's history, meaning popular veterans cut from Smash 4 and longtime popular Smash newcomer requests (K Rool, Krystal, Geno, etc.) should be playable fighters. Also Smash 5 should be released in 2019, as part of the 20th Anniversary

I wouldn't put Krystal in the same evergreen request category as K. Rool, honestly. Hasn't her support kind of died down a ton?