Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[osby]

Generally.

He really likes Fire Emblem, if that's what you ask, but I never see him saying one particular character is his favorite. Though, I know he likes Chrom.

Do y'all think they're ever gonna release new amiibo with the new Ultimate poses anytime soon?

No.

 

[Deleted member]

He really likes Fire Emblem, if that's what you ask, but I never see him saying one particular character is his favorite. Though, I know he likes Chrom.



No.

Eh I feel like they might actually do it after DLC ends to keep they hype train rolling a little

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Though, I know he likes Chrom.

Everyone and their mom and their moms husband and their husbands boyfriend and the boyfriends dog likes chrom

 

[Bionichute]

Everyone and their mom and their moms husband and their husbands boyfriend and the boyfriends dog likes chrom

i can guarantee you that none of my relatives know who the **** chrom is

also i can't believe sakurai is a furry

 

[Deleted member]

Everyone and their mom and their moms husband and their husbands boyfriend and the boyfriends dog likes chrom

I mean like,

He's really hot.

Really no reason NOT to like him, just wanted to point that out.

theres a reason I main him over Roy

 

[Deleted member]

Do y'all think they're ever gonna release new amiibo with the new Ultimate poses anytime soon?

Gods please no

 

[KingBroly]

Well, she is an exact physical copy of Samus. Down to the veins, arteries, and heart. The only difference is her "skin" is what would be considered a power suit because thats what Metroid Prime snatched from her. Her DNA was in the suit so it crafted its internal makeup from the DNA and the suit. So it used what was necessary to "live" and became a being instead of a substance.

In other words. Dark Samus is as female as a constructed being of pure energy can possibly be.

eh...I don't think Samus had a third eye. Dark Samus does...or did, in Prime 2 at least. Also not much of a nose. Kind of like Skeletor.

So what I'm saying is that Samus is He-Man.

 

[Bionichute]

eh...I don't think Samus had a third eye. Dark Samus does...or did, in Prime 2 at least. Also not much of a nose. Kind of like Skeletor.

So what I'm saying is that Samus is He-Man.

just as gay as he-man

if dark samus wants to be called a girl let her be called a girl its not that complicated

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

Okay you lost me at "superficial". At this point I'm not sure if you're deliberately trolling or an actual elitist, but either way telling someone that their like for something is fake or ingenuine does not make you look good. Either way I'll humor this discussion with one last post but don't be surprised if I stop responding after this.

1) A lot of people may not always consciously think about what they like about a Pokemon's design but there is always a reason. If you press most fans of a pokemon for why they like it most of them will find reasons to justify their fondness of its design. Do you think anyone who appreciates pieces of art that lack practicality is shallow for doing so, by the way?

2) I wasn't talking about optimal, I was talking about useful. Abra is a rare encounter that flees on the first turn you encounter it, unlike starters who are free. It's also fast so its difficult to put to sleep. It also doesn't learn any damaging attacks without TMs or evolving, so you have to baby it for a bit. Yes it is intentionally very rewarding to do so, but should the typical player really be expected to? On that note, is it really fair to expect every player to have metgame knowledge? How many people even use single player tier list?

Besides, you exaggerate how easy pokemon is, especially for more casual fans. Most games have decently challenging bits that reward balanced teams, especially if you're like me and like to avoid optional trainer encounters and don't grind. There's no way you're soloing a game with just Caterpie without an absurd amount of grinding.

People like you are what give us competitive players the parter-pooper, no-fun-allowed reputation we have.

All right. Seeya.

Never said that they were ingenuine. Just that they lack depth in reasoning.

1. Art critique requires a ton of thought and different interpretations of a piece. People don't take Pokemon seriously enough to really do that kind of thing.

2. Doesn't change the fact it's still way stronger than a ton of other options and remains top tier for ingame because of that. Even in the metagame of Little Cup, Abra dominates for good reason. I like that you didn't address Archen, by the way. It's their own fault if they don't want to educate themselves and do more research on a game they're playing or claim to love. If they want to remain ignorant, that's their problem but again, Pokemon's lack of difficulty pretty much lets them get away with it. Whether they use said lists or not, it really does absolutely nothing to change how much more useful the Abra line is.

No, they really don't. Like at all. Any remotely "challenging" thing in Pokemon is easily overtaken by a level advantage that's super easy to get because like a I keep having to repeat for some reason, literally ANY low tier garbage can solo the game. It still doesn't really change the fact that soloing the game with Caterpie is an option unlike in actually challenging monster collectors that would walk all over for even attempting something similar.

No, it's more like the fact casuals refuse to accept the fact playing a game with skill, depth and research is FUN for some people and that they don't want to admit that their favorite Pokemon is trash and blame the competitive players for it when it's not even remotely their fault since Game Freak is the one that does next to nothing to make many Pokemon better that need it and instead give unnecessary buffs to things like Rayquaza.

 

[Bionichute]

i like garbodor because he's a big ol trash boy

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

i like garbodor because he's a big ol trash boy

Absolute trash whether you play casual or competitive.

 

[osby]

All right. Seeya.

Never said that they were ingenuine. Just that they lack depth in reasoning.

1. Art critique requires a ton of thought and different interpretations of a piece. People don't take Pokemon seriously enough to really do that kind of thing.

2. Doesn't change the fact it's still way stronger than a ton of other options and remains top tier for ingame because of that. Even in the metagame of Little Cup, Abra dominates for good reason. I like that you didn't address Archen, by the way. It's their own fault if they don't want to educate themselves and do more research on a game they're playing or claim to love. If they want to remain ignorant, that's their problem but again, Pokemon's lack of difficulty pretty much lets them get away with it. Whether they use said lists or not, it really does absolutely nothing to change how much more useful the Abra line is.

No, they really don't. Like at all. Any remotely "challenging" thing in Pokemon is easily overtaken by a level advantage that's super easy to get because like a I keep having to repeat for some reason, literally ANY low tier garbage can solo the game. It still doesn't really change the fact that soloing the game with Caterpie is an option unlike in actually challenging monster collectors that would walk all over for even attempting something similar.

No, it's more like the fact casuals refuse to accept the fact playing a game with skill, depth and research is FUN for some people and that they don't want to admit that their favorite Pokemon is trash and blame the competitive players for it when it's not even remotely their fault since Game Freak is the one that does next to nothing to make many Pokemon better that need it and instead give unnecessary buffs to things like Rayquaza.

1. I like Munchlax's design because he looks squishy. It's not that hard.
2. Why would casuals blame competitive players for anything? Most of them likely won't even know about tiers and such.

Absolute trash whether you play casual or competitive.

So, he fulfills his design well.

 

[Pyra]

oh is it real essay hours again boys

Let me begin my segment by speaking about how the fighting game genre is a myth perpetrated by a secret society consisting of at least 4 but no more than 6 people in purple robes and striped boxers...

 

[GoeGoe]

He really likes Fire Emblem, if that's what you ask, but I never see him saying one particular character is his favorite. Though, I know he likes Chrom.



No.

I meant the way he expressed his respect to Persona. He did that somewhat similarly to Fire Emblem.. after the over inclusions, saying he likes the games and finished them all n what not. I get Persona, but his Fire Emblem comments felt like an excuse for Nintendo. I still think it was a bad call, nothing is changing that now however.

Well, who cares. His Yusuke comment gave me new hope for Goemon.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

oh is it real essay hours again boys

Let me begin my segment by speaking about how the fighting game genre is a myth perpetrated by a secret society consisting of at least 4 but no more than 6 people in purple robes and striped boxers...

that last part made this sound like a professor Layton puzzle

 

[Pyra]

that last part made this sound like a professor Layton puzzle

How many of the robed fellows must be discussing the logistics of turning the "fighting game" community against each other for entertainment before one of them produces an envelope sealed using wax stamped with a familiar seal?

 

[Bionichute]

Absolute trash whether you play casual or competitive.

you really don't have to be so rude about this you know

pokemon is primarily for children, and the difficulty is meant to simulate that. while obviously a hard mode would be an added welcome by this point, the game's are otherwise designed for you to pick which pokemon you like the best and then go through the game with them. you can play it strategically, just by picking the looks of what you like, whatever, its how you want to play the game. this is not a perfect strategy, but it is admirable. most mons games do this as well, in fact a big part of dragon quest monster's appeal is that any monster can become as powerful as you want. it took until the third game for yokai watch to even try and implement a way to keep your weaker yokai up to strength with higher rank ones

i get being bitter about pokemon fans being mean about you liking a thing, its made me lose a lot of respect for the pokemon fanbase, but this argument is just getting really out of hand. i'd love if we could talk about yokai watch and pokemon equally, but no one is making that happen by arguing about competitive play and how their games are better

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

1. I like Munchlax's design because he looks squishy. It's not that hard.
2. Why would casuals blame competitive players for anything? Most of them likely won't even know about tiers and such.

So, he fulfills his design well.

Munchlax is one of my top 5 Pokemon because Snorlax was special to me due to me trying something different from usual and actually catching and using one in FRLG as well as getting the personality questions for Munchlax in PMD2 and having a blast with Metronome's randomness as well as the fact his body shape and face remind me a ton of Patrick Star from SpongeBob SquarePants. Regardless, I'm not stupid enough to recommend you actually use it in a competitive setting where stuff like Mega Kangskhan is usually way more optimal or just Snorlax itself in more cases.

Because alot of them tend to generalize them as Smogon worshippers for "hating" the low tier Pokemon and only using viable stuff when that kind of thinking exists in official non-Smogon formats like the official VGC format.

 

[Bionichute]

fun fact this boy right here is one of the best yokai in yokai watch pvp

 

[Wyoming]

you really don't have to be so rude about this you know

pokemon is primarily for children, and the difficulty is meant to simulate that. while obviously a hard mode would be an added welcome by this point, the game's are otherwise designed for you to pick which pokemon you like the best and then go through the game with them. you can play it strategically, just by picking the looks of what you like, whatever, its how you want to play the game. this is not a perfect strategy, but it is admirable. most mons games do this as well, in fact a big part of dragon quest monster's appeal is that any monster can become as powerful as you want. it took until the third game for yokai watch to even try and implement a way to keep your weaker yokai up to strength with higher rank ones

i get being bitter about pokemon fans being mean about you liking a thing, its made me lose a lot of respect for the pokemon fanbase, but this argument is just getting really out of hand. i'd love if we could talk about yokai watch and pokemon equally, but no one is making that happen by arguing about competitive play and how their games are better

He is talking about Garbodor

 

[Bionichute]

He is talking about Garbodor

yeah i know, i'm more just speaking generally to him because i feel this has gone on long enough

 

[osby]

I meant the way he expressed his respect to Persona. He did that somewhat similarly to Fire Emblem.. after the over inclusions, saying he likes the games and finished them all n what not. I get Persona, but his Fire Emblem comments felt like an excuse for Nintendo. I still think it was a bad call, nothing is changing that now however.

Well, who cares. His Yusuke comment gave me new hope for Goemon.

"Excuse"? I have no idea what you are talking about.

Also, Goemon in Persona have nothing to do with the character in your icon, so keep your expectations in check.

Because alot of them tend to generalize them as Smogon worshippers for "hating" the low tier Pokemon and only using viable stuff when that kind of thinking exists in official non-Smogon formats like the official VGC format.

You don't exactly help that image by calling Pokemon trash.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

you really don't have to be so rude about this you know

pokemon is primarily for children, and the difficulty is meant to simulate that. while obviously a hard mode would be an added welcome by this point, the game's are otherwise designed for you to pick which pokemon you like the best and then go through the game with them. you can play it strategically, just by picking the looks of what you like, whatever, its how you want to play the game. this is not a perfect strategy, but it is admirable. most mons games do this as well, in fact a big part of dragon quest monster's appeal is that any monster can become as powerful as you want. it took until the third game for yokai watch to even try and implement a way to keep your weaker yokai up to strength with higher rank ones

i get being bitter about pokemon fans being mean about you liking a thing, its made me lose a lot of respect for the pokemon fanbase, but this argument is just getting really out of hand. i'd love if we could talk about yokai watch and pokemon equally, but no one is making that happen by arguing about competitive play and how their games are better

It's not MY fault that that's just how it is for Garbodor. Blame Game Freak for literally making it trash and doing nothing to make it more useful.

What difficulty? You can very much play through the game with any low tiers and win and even solo the game with a low tier without need for much thought as long as you get a level advantage. Do people just refuse to understand that, which is why I have to keep repeating it? You want difficulty, stick to Yo-Kai Watch where you'd be a moron to try to take on Kat Kraydel with a single E Rank while Pokemon is literally letting players solo the hardest NPCs in the game with Caterpie.

Yeah, because even low tiers in Dragon Quest Monsters have options to actually become something useful. Pokemon only get one evolution line with a few branches and most of them are awful. Caterpie will only ever have the option of being the terrible Butterfree. At least Slime can become Slime XY, which is just Slime with S Rank stats.

Not really because Soul Gems let you make plenty of use in YKW2 out of low tier fodder since they're easier to befriend and stockpile to level those up and low Rank difficulty missions in Busters makes it easier to get away with using low Rank Yo-Kai but you'd certainly have to be a fool to enter the Challenge Mode of boss battles as any E Rank. At least all the Yo-Kai that can evolve or fuse make big jumps in Rank that get it through a players head of that power gap.

 

[GoeGoe]

"Excuse"? I have no idea what you are talking about.

Also, Goemon in Persona have nothing to do with the character in your icon, so keep your expectations in check

The excess of Fire Emblem charcater inclusions to promote Fire Emblem back in Smash 4 days.

You mean Ganbare Goemon (the Mystical Ninja), yeah I know, it's pretty obvious. Still, it could be a hint, who knows?

 

[Pyra]

Also, Goemon in Persona have nothing to do with the character in your icon, so keep your expectations in check.

Besides being based on the same person, in a NES Goku-Toriyama Goku-Journey To The West Wukong kind of way (except, the source is a real person in this case).
But yeah Goemon is just a legendary thief that got boiled alive irl, so a lot of media is based off of him. So totally unrelated (besides sharing a common source).

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

You don't exactly help that image by calling Pokemon trash.

Not my fault that that's just how it is. You want to do something to prove it wrong, go win some official VGC tournaments with Pokemon people think are bad like Unown and win thousands of dollars in tourney money for doing it. I bet you won't tho. The actions of the people winning tournaments with those top tiers and Game Freak awarding those players with money and trophies and calling them Pokemon Masters certainly speaks louder than my words.

 

[osby]

The excess of Fire Emblem charcater inclusions to promote Fire Emblem back in Smash 4 days.

You mean Ganbare Goemon (the Mystical Ninja), yeah I know, it's pretty obvious. Still, it could be a hint, who knows?

Only character that was added to promote FE was Corrin and that was development team's idea.

And yeah, like how chairs was hinting at Skull Kid.

 

[Pyra]

trubbish is S tier, objectively, and anyone who disagrees is gonna face the might of my objective facts that everyone is required to care about and if they don't i'm gonna have to go through my next 3 keyboards telling them to prove how much they don't care

 

[Deleted member]

I meant the way he expressed his respect to Persona. He did that somewhat similarly to Fire Emblem.. after the over inclusions, saying he likes the games and finished them all n what not. I get Persona, but his Fire Emblem comments felt like an excuse for Nintendo. I still think it was a bad call, nothing is changing that now however.

Well, who cares. His Yusuke comment gave me new hope for Goemon.

Well... Sakurai likes to put in content from games he likes. It's why KI has so much rep even before Uprising, and why Xenoblade was even on the radar at all. This is common knowledge. Not some grand conspiracy to add more FE ads

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

fun fact this boy right here is one of the best yokai in yokai watch pvp

Which just goes to show looks don't mean jack compared to stats and utility like I've been saying since many wouldn't hesitate to call Slimamander ugly regardless of its powerful magic attacks.
Pretty unfortunate that the revamped battle system, loss of certain options and power creep of YKW3 nerfed him big time so now he's not as good anymore.

People can choose not to care if a monster is actually good or not all they like. Doesn't mean it isn't true.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Holy **** you guys are STILL ****ing bickering about Pokemon?

 

[Deleted member]

Is DrCoeloCephalo really complaining about difficulty in Pokemon, and complaining about how the games don't adhere to fan-made tier lists?

I feel they do not understand the point of Pokemon or who the games are aimed at.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

Is DrCoeloCephalo really complaining about difficulty in Pokemon, and complaining about how the games don't adhere to fan-made tier lists?

I feel they do not understand the point of Pokemon or who the games are aimed for.

VGC tier lists aren't entirely fanmade since that's an officially endorsed Game Freak acknowledged format. You mean them advertising all these years about the point being "being the best like no one ever was"? Also 11 year olds have competed in that format and won given that there's a junior division designed for kids.

 

[Pyra]

Holy **** you guys are STILL ****ing bickering about Pokemon?

no, what gave you that idea gwen
this is a SMASH discussion, we're only talking about SMASH.

Anyway, they should replace Pikachu with a better Pokemon, like Blue Eyes White Dragon. Tbh.

edit: sorry that was a beyblade, please ignore

 

[Bionichute]

It's not MY fault that that's just how it is for Garbodor. Blame Game Freak for literally making it trash and doing nothing to make it more useful.

What difficulty? You can very much play through the game with any low tiers and win and even solo the game with a low tier without need for much thought as long as you get a level advantage. Do people just refuse to understand that, which is why I have to keep repeating it? You want difficulty, stick to Yo-Kai Watch where you'd be a moron to try to take on Kat Kraydel with a single E Rank while Pokemon is literally letting players solo the hardest NPCs in the game with Caterpie.

Yeah, because even low tiers in Dragon Quest Monsters have options to actually become something useful. Pokemon only get one evolution line with a few branches and most of them are awful. Caterpie will only ever have the option of being the terrible Butterfree.

Not really because Soul Gems let you make plenty of use in YKW2 out of low tier fodder since they're easier to befriend and stockpile to level those up and low Rank difficulty missions in Busters makes it easier to get away with using low Rank Yo-Kai but you'd certainly have to be a fool to enter the Challenge Mode of boss battles as any E Rank. At least all the Yo-Kai that can evolve or fuse make big jumps in Rank that get it through a players head of that power gap.

you missed my point, dude

the point isn't the difficulty, its that letting you play through the game entirely with your favorite monsters is the entire appeal of mons games, and pokemon does it very well. it not being difficult is a problem, yeah, but there's a reason for it. you don't seem to get that some people like monster collecting games because they like the monsters. its not the difficult to grasp.

i like komasan because he is cute and funny, so that's why i put him on my team. i played through almost the entirety of blasters as whisper because i like whisper. if i had gotten to a point where i could catch trubbish in gen 5, i would keep him on my team because he is a trash monster. i don't care if the death star slime is good, i want to put it on my team because it is a death star slime and that's awesome

not everything is about pure gameplay, pokemon aren't just numbers, they're thought out designs that go through hundreds of revisions and touch a lot of people's hearts. difficulty doesn't matter when these kind of games are primarily about the experience. some pokemon are objectively worse than others, so what? it doesn't mean they don't have a purpose in the game

if you wish the games were more difficult and that more pokemon were useful gameplay wise, that's your prerogative, but a lot of people don't. i dislike the pokemon games entirely, but i still love the pokemon. i can enjoy that from afar, without having to touch the objectively very poorly designed and boring games

so basically we should just shut up about this and talk about our favorite mons from whatever mons games they like

 

[Deleted member]

VGC tier lists aren't entirely fanmade since that's an officially endorsed Game Freak acknowledged format. Also 11 year olds have competed in that format and won.

The story mode is not designed around the competitive mindset though, and TBH Pokemon's main demographic is even younger than that, especially nowadays.

Pokemon games were never hard. To expect it to be as in-depth or difficult as say, a SMT or Persona game is a little much.

 

[Pakky]

Man ya'll don't know about Monster Rancher. Try beating Poritoka good lord!


More importantly Monster rancher 2

 

[Bionichute]

The story mode is not designed around the competitive mindset though, and TBH Pokemon's main demographic is even younger than that, especially nowadays.

Pokemon games were never hard. To expect it to be as in-depth or difficult as say, a SMT or Persona game is a little much.

i get the want to have the games be harder without having to do something stupid like a nuzlocke

like even just a level increase for all trainers would be fine

 

[Gentlepanda]

you missed my point, dude

the point isn't the difficulty, its that letting you play through the game entirely with your favorite monsters is the entire appeal of mons games, and pokemon does it very well. it not being difficult is a problem, yeah, but there's a reason for it. you don't seem to get that some people like monster collecting games because they like the monsters. its not the difficult to grasp.

i like komasan because he is cute and funny, so that's why i put him on my team. i played through almost the entirety of blasters as whisper because i like whisper. if i had gotten to a point where i could catch trubbish in gen 5, i would keep him on my team because he is a trash monster. i don't care if the death star slime is good, i want to put it on my team because it is a death star slime and that's awesome

not everything is about pure gameplay, pokemon aren't just numbers, they're thought out designs that go through hundreds of revisions and touch a lot of people's hearts. difficulty doesn't matter when these kind of games are primarily about the experience. some pokemon are objectively worse than others, so what? it doesn't mean they don't have a purpose in the game

if you wish the games were more difficult and that more pokemon were useful gameplay wise, that's your prerogative, but a lot of people don't. i dislike the pokemon games entirely, but i still love the pokemon. i can enjoy that from afar, without having to touch the objectively very poorly designed and boring games

so basically we should just shut up about this and talk about our favorite mons from whatever mons games they like

wigglytuff is the best pokemon and if you disagree you're dead to me

 

[Pyra]

something stupid like a nuzlocke

hardest disagree i can disagree

edit: uhhh i mean
uhh
smash related


they should put a nuzlocke mode in smash