Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Idon]

Current meta be like:

I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if they need nerfs or not, but one thing's for sure: I suck with them, lol. Still love them, though. :D

TBH it's not just Inklings I suck at Smash.

I say give it a month and a half before we actually start seeing calls for nerfs and buffs be seriously considered.

That said, as of right now, they're the only character I say "goodbye GSP" to at the splash screen.

 

[Double K]

I love Dragon Quest as a series, and I think getting the franchise in would be pretty impressive. But I strongly doubt we'll be seeing it because I just look at how tight-fisted Square was about Final Fantasy and I feel like it would be such as low blow to fans where we didn't even get Spirits for the Materia, but we're getting music from a homophobe who said Japan was in the right for taking American women and turning them into prostitutes for the military during World War II. In other words, if Dragon Quest gets more than 2 tracks, people would be VERY angry. Even if all the tracks were remixed by new composers, people would still get irritated because it's the internet and the internet finds everything to complain about.

And, this is where I'm looking at about the music we're getting. Now, for Joker, it's a very safe bet it's just going to be for Persona (and, most likely, just P5 music), but if we get Erdrick and we're stuck with the two track minimum for a Dragon Quest stage, what else could we get as filler for other stages?

It was Korean women, not american.

Also the only way we'd get more than the normal battle theme is if his nationalism took precedence over his xenophobia since everything is done on one server

 

[Bionichute]

It was Korean women, not american.

Also the only way we'd get more than the normal battle theme is if his nationalism took precedence over his xenophobia since everything is done on one server

or his greed and they pay him a lot of money

he s also very greedy

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If we get a DQ character I'd rather it be Erdrick since we already got Piranha Plant and that's what Slime looks like. An generic enemy. We don't need two in a row.

 

[Pyra]

nerf my squid girl and you'll get my angrily worded ****posts, i s2g

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think people are thinking too much about spirits to begin with.

They’re PNG files used to replace trophies, which can also be entirely avoided by not playing the mode.

Then there’s also the fact that playable characters, while having non-Fighter spirits that aren’t their 1:1 appearance, have multiple different pieces of art. Cloud, for example, only has two that are his Smash renders.

What’s to say that any or every DLC character follows the Cloud example despite already having a spirit? Is that not viable? And if so, why is it not viable?

I just find the “spirits disconfirm fighters” thing to be based on pretty much nothing.

 

[LetterO]

If we get a DQ character I'd rather it be Erdrick since we already got Piranha Plant and that's what Slime looks like. An generic enemy. We don't need two in a row.

Slime is the series mascot, unlike PP.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Slime is the series mascot, unlike PP.

Still an generic enemy though that two I feel is kinda pushing it at least IMO.

 

[Bionichute]

I think people are thinking too much about spirits to begin with.

They’re PNG files used to replace trophies, which can also be entirely avoided by not playing the mode.

Then there’s also the fact that playable characters, while having non-Fighter spirits that aren’t their 1:1 appearance, have multiple different pieces of art. Cloud, for example, only has two that are his Smash renders.

What’s to say that any or every DLC character follows the Cloud example despite already having a spirit? Is that not viable? And if so, why is it not viable?

I just find the “spirits disconfirm fighters” thing to be based on pretty much nothing.

i don't exactly see why the dlc fighters not coming with spirits besides their fighter spirit has to do with them not deconfirming characters? still doesn't change the fact that porky not showing up anywhere is weird as ****

 

[LetterO]

I think people are thinking too much about spirits to begin with.

They’re PNG files used to replace trophies, which can also be entirely avoided by not playing the mode.

Then there’s also the fact that playable characters, while having non-Fighter spirits that aren’t their 1:1 appearance, have multiple different pieces of art. Cloud, for example, only has two that are his Smash renders.

What’s to say that any or every DLC character follows the Cloud example despite already having a spirit? Is that not viable? And if so, why is it not viable?

I just find the “spirits disconfirm fighters” thing to be based on pretty much nothing.

I don't know if Spirits deconfirm or not, but I still think that Porky's absense is really fish, unless the team just saw Buzz Buzz and Ness' Father as bigger priorities than the antagonist of two of the games.

 

[KarneraMythos]

I think people are thinking too much about spirits to begin with.

They’re PNG files used to replace trophies, which can also be entirely avoided by not playing the mode.

Then there’s also the fact that playable characters, while having non-Fighter spirits that aren’t their 1:1 appearance, have multiple different pieces of art. Cloud, for example, only has two that are his Smash renders.

What’s to say that any or every DLC character follows the Cloud example despite already having a spirit? Is that not viable? And if so, why is it not viable?

I just find the “spirits disconfirm fighters” thing to be based on pretty much nothing.

Oh no, there is valid reason to vouch for both sides. I think that Spirits flat-out deconfirm potential newcomers... at least for now. If Nintendo seizes the opportunity with even more DLC in the future, and they slowly run out of ideas (because of Spirits), then you can safely expect them to get "promoted" in the future. That's the glass-half-full perspective for me.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Of course we need more generic enemies, Goomba still isn't playable.

"How would he even pick up items?" How does he hold a bat in baseball?! It's floating right next to him! Either it'd be like Mewtwo or he picks an item up with his mouth like Duck Hunt Doge.

"What would his moveset even be?" I'll just say Goomba's Shoe as an example.

 

[Bionichute]

I don't know if Spirits deconfirm or not, but I still think that Porky's absense is really fish, unless the team just saw Buzz Buzz and Ness' Father as bigger priorities than the antagonist of two of the games.

also a bigger priority: a joke from the end of mother 3

 

[Deleted member]

nerf my squid girl and you'll get my angrily worded ****posts, i s2g

Guys, pls do not bully the squid.

Look at how cute she is:

Spoiler

Inkling did nothing wrong.

 

[P.Kat]

Inklings are great I just gotta be careful of how much mains I have (Pichu, Roy, Sheik, Palutena, Lucina, Corrin, Pit) I already have too many, but Inklings are tempting me to add them. Roller is a commitment, so I try not to use it too much though.

I feel like giving out a hot take.

Knuckles is the AT I'd want to get a promotion first if possible. Then, Shovel Knight.

Give me Lyn and Krystal for AT promotion, or give me death.

 

[LetterO]

i had not witnessed pain until i witnessed my gsp plummet due to a camping isabelle who decided to make their preferred rules hazard on and the chosen stage was hanenbow

 

[TheCJBrine]

So, I remember when people were saying Reggie meant that the DLC characters would be from new series, even though he didn't say that; he said characters new to the series, as in, simply characters that haven't been in Smash.

Now, here's the thing: in the interview where he talked about Waluigi, he referred to him as a "character new to the series" when talking about Smash Bros. and his fans, even though Waluigi is already an Assist Trophy. Of course, you could just tell them it's PR talk, stop reading too deeply into it, dang it.

This is the interview:
https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...me-on-accessibility-whats-next-and-uh-waluigi

Get dunked on, fan-theories.

 

[KarneraMythos]

Guys, pls do not bully the squid.

Look at how cute she is:

Spoiler

View attachment 183901

Inkling did nothing wrong.

A quick disclaimer: I do NOT hate Inklings. I love 'em, but fighting them is a pain in the ass.

 

[Noipoi]

If I ever try to improve my gsp online, i'm just gonna cheat. I'm not good at this game, at all, so I gotta use hazards and items to my advantage.

 

[Idon]

i had not witnessed pain until i witnessed my gsp plummet due to a camping isabelle who decided to make their preferred rules hazard on and the chosen stage was hanenbow

You think that's bad, I got a guy whose only goal was to run away on Kirby (Gameboy) and look for items as Duck Hunt.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like giving out a hot take.

Knuckles is the AT I'd want to get a promotion first if possible. Then, Shovel Knight.

I mean, if we wanna look at the intangibles, here's this video of a user grappling ATs. Only 23 Assist Trophies have this "privilege".

Removing characters that cannot be possibly used as fighters (Klaptrap, Starman, and Hammer Bro.), we already have 20 ATs that stand a chance at getting a quick promotion due to them already being built getting hit. Characters like Black Knight, Lyn, Prince of Sable, and Phosphora can be also be KO'd, but can't be grappled, so I consider them a gray area. However, Shadow, Ashley, and Skull Kid (Also popular AT choices for promotion), can't be KO'd, so they aren't pre-programmed to be knocked around and have the ability to move around, and I know that the assets are there, but turning a NPC that can't be touched into something that can be touched probably takes longer than something that can be knocked around and can fight back to something that can be fully playable. Shadow probably has the benefit of being Echo Fighter material, but honestly, they might want to go for the fast and easy, which pools from 20-24 Assist Trophies, which benefits Knuckles more.

 

[Deleted member]

Inklings are great I just gotta be careful of how much mains I have (Pichu, Roy, Sheik, Palutena, Lucina, Corrin, Pit) I already have too many, but Inklings are tempting me to add them. Roller is a commitment, so I try not to use it too much though.

I'm in a similar predicament, lol. I have like, 5 or so characters I wanna add down in my sig but I know that'd be WAY too many characters. I'm trying to narrow it down, but it's hard, ha ha.

Roller is something I've yet to master. I'm extremely clumsy with it and often panick and use it when I shouldn't. I'm trying to practice jumping and air dodging out of it instead of trying to cancel with B, but I seem to always mess it up. I am getting better at off-stage play though, so there's that (still can't land D-Air to save my life, though...)

 

[KarneraMythos]

So, I remember when people were saying Reggie meant that the DLC characters would be from new series, even though he didn't say that; he said characters new to the series, as in, simply characters that haven't been in Smash.

Now, here's the thing: in the interview where he talked about Waluigi, he referred to him as a "character new to the series" when talking about Smash Bros. and his fans, even though Waluigi is already an Assist Trophy. Of course, you could just tell them it's PR talk, stop reading too deeply into it, dang it.

This is the interview:
https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...me-on-accessibility-whats-next-and-uh-waluigi

Get dunked on, fan-theories.

To be fair, the full quote was:
"So this gives you a flavor of how we're approaching the DLC. For the DLC, there's going to be 5 characters. Each character will come with a stage; will come with a collection of music. These are going to be characters that are new to the series, just like Joker from Persona 5. Characters that you would not anticipate to be in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. We're super excited about this."

It's common-knowledge that he mentioned characters, not series. However, he alludes to Joker and Persona 5. Up until then, we never had a character quite like Joker, nor anyone from Shin Megami Tensei whatsoever. Suppose Edelgard is talked about. What exactly is so new about her? We can compare her to other Fire Emblem characters. While she's new herself, her presence in Smash isn't exactly quite "new" in the same sense.

 

[TheCJBrine]

To be fair, the full quote was:
"So this gives you a flavor of how we're approaching the DLC. For the DLC, there's going to be 5 characters. Each character will come with a stage; will come with a collection of music. These are going to be characters that are new to the series, just like Joker from Persona 5. Characters that you would not anticipate to be in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. We're super excited about this."

It's common-knowledge that he mentioned characters, not series. However, he alludes to Joker and Persona 5. Up until then, we never had a character quite like Joker, nor anyone from Shin Megami Tensei whatsoever. Suppose Edelgard is talked about. What exactly is so new about her? We can compare her to other Fire Emblem characters. While she's new herself, her presence in Smash isn't exactly quite "new" in the same sense.

That still kills the argument that, say, a character can't be in if they've once been an AT or are a Spirit (ignoring people who say Spirits themselves disconfirm).

Reggie may as well have meant the same thing with Joker that he meant for Waluigi, too.

 

[Bionichute]

Assist Trophy "Should be a fighter" Tier List

S Tier (Just need to be in smash already)
Waluigi, Skull Kid, Sukapon, Bomberman, Shovel Knight

A Tier (Are pretty popular and would be cool)
Midna, Ghirahim, Krystal, Black Knight, Sheriff, Prince of Sable, Isaac, Spring Man, Zero, Shadow

B Tier (Any potential, would be cool)
Samurai Goroh, Lyn, Ashley, Riki, Takamaru, Starfy, Dillon, Knuckles, Akira

C Tier (Dream tier, would still be nice but not exciting)
Knuckle Joe, Jeff, Tiki, Dr. Kawashima, Yuri Kozukata, Squid Sisters, Dr. Wily, Guile, Gray Fox, Rodin

D Tier (Would need some serious imagination to make them work, and would generally probably not be well received)
Hammer Bro, Chain Chomp, Mother Brain, Nightmare, Chef Kawasaki, Starman, Phosphora, Dr. Wright, Vince, Nikki, Arcade Bunny, Ghosts

E Tier (Basically just impossible)
Thwomp, Klaptrap, Moon, Metroid, Andross, Burrowing Snagret, Kapp'n, Color TV-Game 15, Devil, Flies & Hand, Devil, Nintendog, Rathalos

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So was there something shown about the possibility of assists being promoted or is this out of boredom?

 

[TheCJBrine]

E Tier (Basically just impossible)
Moon

Nah man, Moon would be like a Bayonetta echo.

So was there something shown about the possibility of assists being promoted or is this out of boredom?

No, I'm just showing how some arguments against characters may have been shot down using prior statements (although Reggie's words themselves may have already shot down some arguments that really matter anyway so idk; I guess I'm just showing how Spirits don't kill characters' chances if it's based off of Reggie's statements).

 

[Deleted member]

Assist Trophy "Should be a fighter" Tier List

S Tier (Just need to be in smash already)
Waluigi, Skull Kid, Sukapon, Bomberman, Shovel Knight

A Tier (Are pretty popular and would be cool)
Midna, Ghirahim, Krystal, Black Knight, Sheriff, Prince of Sable, Isaac, Spring Man, Zero, Shadow

B Tier (Any potential, would be cool)
Samurai Goroh, Lyn, Ashley, Riki, Takamaru, Starfy, Dillon, Knuckles, Akira

C Tier (Dream tier, would still be nice but not exciting)
Knuckle Joe, Jeff, Tiki, Dr. Kawashima, Yuri Kozukata, Squid Sisters, Dr. Wily, Guile, Gray Fox, Rodin

D Tier (Would need some serious imagination to make them work, and would generally probably not be well received)
Hammer Bro, Chain Chomp, Mother Brain, Nightmare, Chef Kawasaki, Starman, Phosphora, Dr. Wright, Vince, Nikki, Arcade Bunny, Ghosts

E Tier (Basically just impossible)
Thwomp, Klaptrap, Moon, Metroid, Andross, Burrowing Snagret, Kapp'n, Color TV-Game 15, Devil, Flies & Hand, Devil, Nintendog, Rathalos

Why you disin' my boi Thwomp.

 

[LetterO]

Assist Trophy "Should be a fighter" Tier List

S Tier (Just need to be in smash already)
Waluigi, Skull Kid, Sukapon, Bomberman, Shovel Knight

A Tier (Are pretty popular and would be cool)
Midna, Ghirahim, Krystal, Black Knight, Sheriff, Prince of Sable, Isaac, Spring Man, Zero, Shadow

B Tier (Any potential, would be cool)
Samurai Goroh, Lyn, Ashley, Riki, Takamaru, Starfy, Dillon, Knuckles, Akira

C Tier (Dream tier, would still be nice but not exciting)
Knuckle Joe, Jeff, Tiki, Dr. Kawashima, Yuri Kozukata, Squid Sisters, Dr. Wily, Guile, Gray Fox, Rodin

D Tier (Would need some serious imagination to make them work, and would generally probably not be well received)
Hammer Bro, Chain Chomp, Mother Brain, Nightmare, Chef Kawasaki, Starman, Phosphora, Dr. Wright, Vince, Nikki, Arcade Bunny, Ghosts

E Tier (Basically just impossible)
Thwomp, Klaptrap, Moon, Metroid, Andross, Burrowing Snagret, Kapp'n, Color TV-Game 15, Devil, Flies & Hand, Devil, Nintendog, Rathalos

Look me square in the eyes and tell me Sukapon basically needs to be in Smash and that Sheriff is pretty popular and then place my boy Knuckles in B tier.

 

[Idon]

So was there something shown about the possibility of assists being promoted or is this out of boredom?

EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE FOR THE PAST 3 WEEKS IS OUT OF BOREDOM.

 

[Pyra]

The first 3 are really bad choices

Not... particularly?

 

[Noipoi]

EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE FOR THE PAST 3 WEEKS IS OUT OF BOREDOM.

We're in the dry season, which is weird cuz the game is out.

 

[Bionichute]

Look me square in the eyes and tell me Sukapon basically needs to be in Smash and that Sheriff is pretty popular and then place my boy Knuckles in B tier.

sukapon DESERVES to be in smash after all he's been through

and i think shadow should get in before knuckles but knuckles would be the next choice

 

[KarneraMythos]

That still kills the argument that, say, a character can't be in if they've once been an AT or are a Spirit (ignoring people who say Spirits themselves disconfirm).

Reggie may as well have meant the same thing with Joker that he meant for Waluigi, too.

I don't quite think that's the case either. As far as Assist Trophies are concerned, I feel like their only chance now is if DLC support continues going on strong and we run out of candidates for whatever reason. Take JDog's post for example:

I mean, if we wanna look at the intangibles, here's this video of a user grappling ATs. Only 23 Assist Trophies have this "privilege".

Removing characters that cannot be possibly used as fighters (Klaptrap, Starman, and Hammer Bro.), we already have 20 ATs that stand a chance at getting a quick promotion due to them already being built getting hit. Characters like Black Knight, Lyn, Prince of Sable, and Phosphora can be also be KO'd, but can't be grappled, so I consider them a gray area. However, Shadow, Ashley, and Skull Kid (Also popular AT choices for promotion), can't be KO'd, so they aren't pre-programmed to be knocked around and have the ability to move around, and I know that the assets are there, but turning a NPC that can't be touched into something that can be touched probably takes longer than something that can be knocked around and can fight back to something that can be fully playable. Shadow probably has the benefit of being Echo Fighter material, but honestly, they might want to go for the fast and easy, which pools from 20-24 Assist Trophies, which benefits Knuckles more.

Putting aside the T-Pose-ish nature of these hilariously-unfinished grab animations, it's possible certain Assist trophies may be promoted in the future. The characters aren't exactly new to Smash, but keep in mind that Reggie is specifically referring to the advertising nature of the current Fighter's Pass. If we are to assume that there are future Fighter's Passes, the intentions behind them may vary.

 

[Deleted member]

We're in the dry season, which is weird cuz the game is out.

I just want Joker footage, man.

Give me that, and I'm good.

 

[Noipoi]

sukapon DESERVES to be in smash after all he's been through

and i think shadow should get in before knuckles but knuckles would be the next choice

...What the hell has Sukapon been through?

 

[Idon]

sukapon DESERVES to be in smash after all he's been through

and i think shadow should get in before knuckles but knuckles would be the next choice

If we're going to put characters in because of what they've been through, I move to nominate Claus4Smash.

 

[Bionichute]

...What the hell has Sukapon been through?

being forgotten for like 25 years

 

[Wademan94]

Alright how about we see a tier list of Spirits that should be playable?

All I’ll say is that I think S Tier should include Rayman, Geno, Shantae, and Fawful...

 

[Noipoi]

being forgotten for like 25 years

By that logic, I nominate Radical Rex.