Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

As well versed as I am in Zelda lore, I don't recall any instance of Alfonzo being able to destroy entire cities with nature themed nuclear bombs.

Man, you really need to catch up on your Zelda lore then.

 

[Shroob]

Which would make sense in most cases. Protagonists are generally the most recognizable and popular characters of their respective games, hence why it took so long for us to get some villains in Ultimate. Smash 4's DLC were protagonists as well, so overall that's not an unreasonable expectation.


It's huge in Japan, but how many people outside of Japan are going to care? International appeal is important when determining characters. Sakurai has considered and then disregarded characters multiple times because he knew that they wouldn't have any appeal outside of Japan (like Takamaru). Chrom was said to be added to appeal to Japanese players, and Dark Samus was said to be added to appeal to Western players.

The only way they could get away with that is due to the Fighter's Pass, since people have already purchased it, so they can throw in whoever and people will still have technically paid for it. But given Sakurai's attitude about "Don't buy it unless you're confident in the characters we'll add," I don't think he'd throw in a character he knew would be unappealing to large chunks of the playerbase.

Even then, part of the reason people considered a Cygames character to be possible is because of that mentioned business association with Nintendo, and the cynical belief most people had that Nintendo would make all the DLC characters corporate promotions. Then we got Joker, who is a character from one of the highest-profile Playstation games of 2017, so I think that line of reasoning no longer holds any merit at all.

Inkling and Joker are good middle-ground characters who appeal to both spheres. Splatoon is *huge* in Japan, and so is Persona. But they're also very popular in the West as well, so no side is left shaking their head that the character solely exists due to foreign appeal.

How many international people cared about Corrin? And if the leaks are to be taken into consideration, how many people really care about someone like Erdrick outside of Japan?


I'm not saying a Cygames character is 'going' to happen, but they have amped up their traction on getting known in the west as ungodly fast as they have ever been, hell they helped fund EVO this year and have been promoting Granblue in America at basically all the big anime conventions, despite it not being legally playable outside of Japan.


My point is that Cygames is making a mad dash to 'become' known outside of Japan at blistering speeds. I'm not saying it means anything 'for' Smash, but at the same time, it wouldn't surprise me either if this was part of their campaign to say "Hey, we exist!"

 

[Deleted member]

If y'all assume Spirits disconfirm, then just like Chunky, she's dead.

Now, let's throw this silly argument away as we see how Pit's artwork for the NES Kid Icarus is a primary Spirit.

Something something that's not the same Pit something something.

did I do it right

 

[praline]

That wasn't really the point tho.

You know who cares? That’s right, it’s not me.

 

[Luigi The President]

How many international people cared about Corrin? And if the leaks are to be taken into consideration, how many people really care about someone like Erdrick outside of Japan?


I'm not saying a Cygames character is 'going' to happen, but they have amped up their traction on getting known in the west as ungodly fast as they have ever been, hell they helped fund EVO this year and have been promoting Granblue in America at basically all the big anime conventions, despite it not being legally playable outside of Japan.


My point is that Cygames is making a mad dash to 'become' known outside of Japan at blistering speeds. I'm not saying it means anything 'for' Smash, but at the same time, it wouldn't surprise me either if this was part of their campaign to say "Hey, we exist!"

Whoa buddey let's not assume Erdrick is a lock now that's my big beef with this post.

Please gang we can't suddenly latch onto Squenix leaks we just went over why we shouldn't.

 

[RyuhoFox]

Depends whether Viridi's been shown as a Spirit or not assuming they do deconfirm characters.

Viridi is a support spirit with the metal killer ability.

 

[Luigi The President]

You know who cares? That’s right, it’s not me.

O...Okay, but the post was responding to my own regarding my feelings on who will represent third party games. I appreciate the sass...?

 

[Ezclapper]

Spirits Mode literally ends with every character getting their spirit back.

To think some story wise ''Spirit" reason is why a character won't get in now that we know that ending is hilarious to me.

Reggie during the game awards literally said that the DLC was going to be characters that haven’t been in smash

 

[Shroob]

Whoa buddey let's not assume Erdrick is a lock now that's my big beef with this post.

Please gang we can't suddenly latch onto Squenix leaks we just went over why we shouldn't.

I'm not assuming he's confirmed, I'm just using him as part of my argument.

 

[Deleted member]

Let's just remove Ridley and K. Rool from the game so we can go back to speculating about them instead.
Those were simpler times.

 

[Bionichute]

Spirits Mode literally ends with every character getting their spirit back.

To think some story wise ''Spirit" reason is why a character won't get in now that we know that ending is hilarious to me.

im not even saying its a story reason at all (the game doesn't even follow that) but there is at least the consistent rule of only variants of playable characters appearing as spirits (the various spirits of samus' suits aren't even called samus, they are the suits themselves when they didn't need to), which feels a bit damning for characters who aren't variants

im more thinking just planning wise. they wouldn't put spirits of characters in the game when they would get spirits later on, that would probably be a nightmare for programming and organization. imagine there's a viridi or geno spirit already in the game, and then they have to add in another spirit for them for the fighter spirit. what do you call that when you have no variant? they already used the only art for those characters for their spirits already, what art could they even use for the fighter spirits?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Something something that's not the same Pit something something.

did I do it right

I actually went into a Spirits discussion in a youtube comment section and regret it.

When I brought up the Pit Spirit, the guy said "they're completely different, play the game" as if the fact that it's canonically the same character doesn't matter.

what art could they even use for the fighter spirits?

Well, Wii Fit Trainer and Cloud only have their Ultimate renders as their Fighter Spirits.

For Geno and Viridi, they could add something like "(Super Mario RPG)/(Kid Icarus: Uprising)" or simply just "(Original)" to their equip-able Spirits.

 

[Luigi The President]

I'm not assuming he's confirmed, I'm just using him as part of my argument.

And you shouldn't until he's confirmed is all I'ms ayin' my dear Shroobsy.

im not even saying its a story reason at all (the game doesn't even follow that) but there is at least the consistent rule of only variants of playable characters appearing as spirits (the various spirits of samus' suits aren't even called samus, they are the suits themselves when they didn't need to), which feels a bit damning for characters who aren't variants

im more thinking just planning wise. they wouldn't put spirits of characters in the game when they would get spirits later on, that would probably be a nightmare for programming and organization. imagine there's a viridi or geno spirit already in the game, and then they have to add in another spirit for them for the fighter spirit. what do you call that when you have no variant? they already used the only art for those characters for their spirits already, what art could they even use for the fighter spirits?

That wouldn't be a nightmare at all.

Ya just change the other Geno to Geno (Classic).

Also they could just...use Ultimate's art, like Cloud does.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Reggie during the game awards literally said that the DLC was going to be characters that haven’t been in smash

I think he was just trying to make the obvious, all the DLC characters being newcomers, sound more exciting.

 

[Luigi The President]

Reggie during the game awards literally said that the DLC was going to be characters that haven’t been in smash

And here we go again

 

[Bionichute]

Also they could just...use Ultimate's art, like Cloud does.

they could but also that feels comically lazy

the only reason cloud uses his ultimate art is because squeenix didn't allow them to use official art for them

 

[Deleted member]

You know who cares? That’s right, it’s not me.

Got 'em.

Why is everyone so cranky tonight.

 

[Shroob]

And you shouldn't until he's confirmed is all I'ms ayin' my dear Shroobsy.


That wouldn't be a nightmare at all.

Ya just change the other Geno to Geno (Classic).

Also they could just...use Ultimate's art, like Cloud does.

I mean, when discussing DLC, you kind of 'have' to since none of the characters we're talking about are confirmed. The discussion was "Who outside of Japan would care about a Cygames rep", and my counterpoint was "Well who would really care about Erdrick"


I'd consider that a fair argument all things considered.

 

[Luigi The President]

they could but also that feels comically lazy

the only reason cloud uses his ultimate art is because squeenix didn't allow them to use official art for them

And if Geno, a Squenix rep, gets in, then...

 

[Diem]

How many international people cared about Corrin? And if the leaks are to be taken into consideration, how many people really care about someone like Erdrick outside of Japan?


I'm not saying a Cygames character is 'going' to happen, but they have amped up their traction on getting known in the west as ungodly fast as they have ever been, hell they helped fund EVO this year and have been promoting Granblue in America at basically all the big anime conventions, despite it not being legally playable outside of Japan.


My point is that Cygames is making a mad dash to 'become' known outside of Japan at blistering speeds. I'm not saying it means anything 'for' Smash, but at the same time, it wouldn't surprise me either if this was part of their campaign to say "Hey, we exist!"

Corrin was mainly a Japanese appeal, but it came paired with Bayonetta, who was the #1 character in Europe and #1 worldwide in the ballot. Also, Fire Emblem had become big overseas with Awakening, so preemptively including a character from the new game could still be seen as a move that would appeal to Western players. Of course, the game came out internationally and neither the game or the character were very well-received, so that kind of backfired, and is why it's a bad idea to add characters like that when their appeal is uncertain.

If Cygames is branching out internationally, and not staying within a Japanese bubble, then I can see some merit to the idea of one of their characters being added. I still think it would be too early, though, since they haven't gained as much traction as, say, Joker. Also, the character would have to have an interesting moveset, and an interesting stage and music to boot, so if their games can't offer that, then that'd be a barrier.

As ever, all I want is to see people get hype over cool characters being added. I don't care about Joker, but I love that he got announced because I know a lot of people do love Persona and the character, so I like seeing them get excited. I finally got Dark Samus, so now I just want to see as many other people be happy with new characters. And I'm not sure how many people in the Smash playerbase would be excited for a mobile game character.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Reggie during the game awards literally said that the DLC was going to be characters that haven’t been in smash

That is literally NOT what he said and people need to stop saying that is what he said. When he says new to the series he simply means they will be new playable fighters. Nothing more.

You're adding this ''They can't have appeared in any form." to it yourself.

 

[praline]

Got 'em.

View attachment 183368

Why is everyone so cranky tonight.

This is just normal me. I’m just naturally snarky.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Got 'em.

View attachment 183368

Why is everyone so cranky tonight.

I think they are hungry

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Then you should separate my desires from my expectations.

Literally every single time SMT's chances are brought up, I say "zero percent chance" and that despite my avid support for the mainline, Persona is by far more popular.

I'm not blind. Hopeful, but not blind.

Okay, fair point...

Why is everyone so cranky tonight.

I guess all that Chrstmas/Holiday preparation has tired everyone out

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

At least Joker put to death the idiotic idea that all these DLC characters would be corporate promotions meant to advertise other games primarily.

I mean, with a rumored Persona 5 port very likely on the way, Joker could just so happen to become a promotional rep. There's also the rumor about Erdrick being in the game with one of the reasons being to promote the series in the West, so that doesn't fare well for the idea of "DLC characters as promotions" either.

My question is: is promotion a bad thing? All third party companies want to promote their IPs and brand, and what better way to do so than Smash? I don't think it's bad to want to do that, especially if your game or series has other merits to base it's inclusion off of.

 

[Shroob]

Corrin was mainly a Japanese appeal, but it came paired with Bayonetta, who was the #1 character in Europe and #1 worldwide in the ballot. Also, Fire Emblem had become big overseas with Awakening, so preemptively including a character from the new game could still be seen as a move that would appeal to Western players. Of course, the game came out internationally and neither the game or the character were very well-received, so that kind of backfired, and is why it's a bad idea to add characters like that when their appeal is uncertain.

If Cygames is branching out internationally, and not staying within a Japanese bubble, then I can see some merit to the idea of one of their characters being added. I still think it would be too early, though, since they haven't gained as much traction as, say, Joker. Also, the character would have to have an interesting moveset, and an interesting stage and music to boot, so if their games can't offer that, then that'd be a barrier.

As ever, all I want is to see people get hype over cool characters being added. I don't care about Joker, but I love that he got announced because I know a lot of people do love Persona and the character, so I like seeing them get excited. I finally got Dark Samus, so now I just want to see as many other people be happy with new characters. And I'm not sure how many people in the Smash playerbase would be excited for a mobile game character.

This is definitely a non-issue, considering the music is composed by Nobuo Uematsu, and the locals in the game are incredibly rich and vibrant.

 

[Ezclapper]

And here we go again

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Vsatt8-o4
“These are going to be characters that are new to the series” go to 3:18. He literally says that word for word. So if a character isn’t new to the series, it’s not going to be DLC.

 

[Bionichute]

That is literally NOT what he said and people need to stop saying that is what he said. When he says new to the series he simply means they will be new playable fighters. Nothing more.

You're adding this ''They can't have appeared in any form." to it yourself.

i mean reggie doesn't usually know what he's talking about for stuff like this. i mean he obviously knows but he most likely doesn't care beyond making it sound exciting

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Elsewise Sakurai didn't even pick the Spirits himself and they were so unimportant that he let another company handle this task.

You're asking them to hand pick and cherry pick thousands of pngs in case they might want to use one later.

That simply is so unrealistic, it's not even funny.

 

[Idon]

That is literally NOT what he said and people need to stop saying that is what he said. When he says new to the series he simply means they will be new playable fighters. Nothing more.

You're adding this ''They can't have appeared in any form." to it yourself.

Well, I think the "he simply means they will be new playable fighters" is also some interpretation on your own part. Unless he clarified that statement, I haven't actually seen that confirmed.

Frankly, it just sounds like a bunch of PR Speak that could go either way based on the interpretation and that Reggie just wanted us to get hype either way.

 

[Bionichute]

Elsewise Sakurai didn't even pick the Spirits himself and they were so unimportant that he let another company handle this task.

You're asking them to hand pick and cherry pick thousands of pngs in case they might want to us one later.

That simply is so unrealistic, it's not even funny.

were the fights designed by a different company too because

 

[Luigi The President]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Vsatt8-o4
“These are going to be characters that are new to the series” go to 3:18. He literally says that word for word. So if a character isn’t new to the series, it’s not going to be DLC.

This is the literal definition of newcomers we have used for over a decade now I want to cry

 

[TheCJBrine]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Vsatt8-o4
“These are going to be characters that are new to the series” go to 3:18. He literally says that word for word. So if a character isn’t new to the series, it’s not going to be DLC.

Or, y'know, he simply meant "new characters" because "Everyone is Here!" slipped his mind or he just wanted to restate it.

Could the Smash community stop reading too deep into PR statements okay thanks.

 

[Guynamednelson]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Vsatt8-o4
“These are going to be characters that are new to the series” go to 3:18. He literally says that word for word. So if a character isn’t new to the series, it’s not going to be DLC.

He was just stating what didn't need to be said. Of course all DLC fighters are gonna be newcomers, they can't make veteran DLC this time.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I will say, if Nintendo and Cygames' business relationship continues to blossom, and Dragalia stays active(Profitable), considering Cygame's mad dash to become known in the west ASAP, "A character from a mobile game" would not surprise me at all at this point.

At the rate that Cygames is growing and expanding, it's really only a matter of time until they become big worldwide.



Not saying it'll happen this game, but if Cygame's worldwide growth is a success, I'd say it's a guarantee for Smash 6 speculation.

I'd say Cygames is even likely for a potential Fighters Pass 2.

Don't give up hope Luigi The President

 

[Luigi The President]

I'd say Cygames is even likely for a potential Fighters Pass 2.

Don't give up hope Luigi The President

Hah I'm satisfied actually my girl's in an Arcsys fighter

Smash 6 y'all better watch out tho!
...or Season 2, we take those actually thanks king

 

[RyuhoFox]

And you shouldn't until he's confirmed is all I'ms ayin' my dear Shroobsy.


That wouldn't be a nightmare at all.

Ya just change the other Geno to Geno (Classic).

Also they could just...use Ultimate's art, like Cloud does.

Yeah that wouldn't really be that hard to do. Im not really sure why some try to act like some things like making new art or changing a name slightly are some herculean impossible task. That reminds me how the Grinch leak was impossible to be fake because it was just impossible to have faked it. We need to stop treating simple development things like they are superhuman feats, especially when talking about professional developers like those at Nintendo.
Not getting into whether spirits mean anything in regards to character inclusions or not but "it's like super duper hard to do guys" is a pretty bad argument.

 

[Ezclapper]

This is the literal definition of newcomers we have used for over a decade now I want to cry

This isn’t my point at all, why would he say new to the series if he could’ve just simply said they will be new fighters? Don’t give me that excuse that Reggie just said what he said in the heat of the moment, he crafts his words very carefully.

 

[Deleted member]

What reality are the Octolings in.

That's the one I wanna be in.

 

[Luigi The President]

This isn’t my point at all, why would he say new to the series if he could’ve just simply said they will be new fighters? Don’t give me that excuse that Reggie just said what he said in the heat of the moment, he crafts his word very carefully.

Because that is what he said in essence and this is pretty obvious

New fighters implies new to the series because they are new to the series as they are new fighters
This doesn't make sense, but it really should

"Fighters brand new to the series" also sounds a lot hyper then "new fighters" and both statements are totally true