Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Idon]

yeah this is some ridley style revisionism here, joker was only considered by a handful of people and the reason why joker was so exciting as a reveal was because nobody expected it to ever happen. a surprise isn't logical, that's the exact opposite of a surprise

Joker's actual chances were actually considered extremely low for base roster, but was wanted by a huge amount of people, like 5 times more than anything else megaten/Atlus.

I'm using logical as in "it would make sense for Nintendo to pick that character" not as in everyone would automatically expect that character and it would be a surprise to no one. Frankly, there are few characters that do satisfy that requirement unless they were fully leaked beforehand.

 

[Bionichute]

i think trying to predict the dlc is fruitless because we will never be able to correctly guess sakurai's mindset when it comes to picking characters. the only reason we thought incineroar would happen was because of leaks, before that it was decidueye as the main gen 7 rep. even with leaks everyone expected isabelle to be an echo. piranha plant happened too

sakurai's mind is an enigma wrapped in a mystery that we will never crack

 

[Luigi The President]

Even though we know said leak had nothing to do with Smash, it still wouldn't surprise me if this came to pass.


Cygames is ****ing huge in Japan now, and they have the connection with Nintendo through Dragalia Lost, and Nintendo owning stock in the company.

She's coming

 

[Deleted member]

yeah this is some ridley style revisionism here, joker was only considered by a handful of people and the reason why joker was so exciting as a reveal was because nobody expected it to ever happen. a surprise isn't logical, that's the exact opposite of a surprise

It being a surprise doesn't make it illogical. Nintendo putting in a character from a very popular series makes sense, as that will generate more sales.

Thinking what's talked about in the miniscule bubble that is places like here, reddit, and GameFAQs is logical and expected is giving us way too much credit and really overselling how influential we really are.

Also, Ridley made perfect sense. Metroid is popular with hardcore Nintendo fans, and Nintendo is making new Metroid games right now. K. Rool was honestly the biggest surprise of base-game roster IMO.

 

[Iridium]

Give us free Virtual Boy rep.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

She's coming

She’s coming...huh...but what about Viridi and Geno

 

[Bionichute]

i hope they add more spirits in with each dlc character (barring p plant obviously). like how hard would it be to put in the persona 5 protagonists as spirits? you got their voice actors for the trailer

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Also, Ridley made perfect sense. Metroid is popular with hardcore Nintendo fans, and Nintendo is making new Metroid games right now. K. Rool was honestly the biggest surprise of base-game roster.

Sylux would be icing on cake. I'd definitely welcome another Metroid rep.

As for King K. Rool. That's the power of fan demand for ya bringing someone back from the depths of relevancy.

 

[Idon]

Give us free Virtual Boy rep.

I gotchu fam

THE JACK BROS ARE COMIN

 

[Luigi The President]

She’s coming...huh...but what about Viridi and Geno

I don't know TMNT.

I just don't know.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Absolutely.

If you're going to want characters that will sell well from a popular series then Joker's absolutely a logical character to come to.

Never thought I'd hear those words come out of your mouth...

She's coming

Preach it!

 

[Zinith]

I wanna clarify what I was saying

My "logical pattern" was that the third party reps would all be protags

I personally would add an asterisk on that saying, "unless the franchises in question has no central protagonist. Mainly fighting games like Mortal Kombat, Tekken and Soul Calibur."

 

[Luigi The President]

I personally would add an asterisk on that saying, "unless the franchises in question has no central protagonist. Mainly fighting games like Mortal Kombat, Tekken and Soul Calibur."

Sure, I can understand that.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

She’s coming...huh...but what about Viridi and Geno

Depends whether Viridi's been shown as a Spirit or not assuming they do deconfirm characters.

 

[Luigi The President]

Depends whether Viridi's been shown as a Spirit or not assuming they do deconfirm characters.

Please stop assuming this

 

[TMNTSSB4]

View attachment 183362
I don't know TMNT.

I just don't know.

We’ll have to make it happen on our own

 

[Impa4Smash]

Unrelated, but speaking of spirits, the Dr Willy and Geno spirits are kicking my ass. And I just barely got Pauline.

 

[Bionichute]

Please stop assuming this

its all but confirmed lol sorry

(and also viridi in the background of reset bomb forest, difference between not letting an assist character on a stage compared to a playable character)

 

[Shroob]

I will say, if Nintendo and Cygames' business relationship continues to blossom, and Dragalia stays active(Profitable), considering Cygame's mad dash to become known in the west ASAP, "A character from a mobile game" would not surprise me at all at this point.

At the rate that Cygames is growing and expanding, it's really only a matter of time until they become big worldwide.



Not saying it'll happen this game, but if Cygame's worldwide growth is a success, I'd say it's a guarantee for Smash 6 speculation.

 

[Idon]

Never thought I'd hear those words come out of your mouth...

Then you should separate my desires from my expectations.

Literally every single time SMT's chances are brought up, I say "zero percent chance" and that despite my avid support for the mainline, Persona is by far more popular.

I'm not blind. Hopeful, but not blind.

****ing 15 years of support man... for nothing.

 

[Luigi The President]

its all but confirmed lol sorry

(and also viridi in the background of reset bomb forest, difference between not letting an assist character on a stage compared to a playable character)

I'd love to hear why it's confirmed. Go on.

 

[praline]

I personally would add an asterisk on that saying, "unless the franchises in question has no central protagonist. Mainly fighting games like Mortal Kombat, Tekken and Soul Calibur."

All 3 of those have pretty obvious choices for who they’d add though.

Scorpion, Heihachi and Nightmare.

 

[Guynamednelson]

its all but confirmed lol sorry

There are spirits which use SSBU renders. If a DLC fighter is someone who already has a Spirit, why not have their Fighter Spirit use the SSBU render?

 

[perfectchaos83]

If it wasn't Joker, I was expecting something from Atlus at the very least.

They're one of the longest running 3rd parties that have supported Nintendo since the Famicon era that still hasn't gotten anything in Smash.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to think this. Like, I had Joker on my Shortlist for the next Sega/Atlus rep. Problem is, I never put much thought into it because I didn't expect that to be the first reveal. I was less surprised at Joker being in smash than I was that the trailer itself was for Smash.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

(and also viridi in the background of reset bomb forest, difference between not letting an assist character on a stage compared to a playable character)

Yet is featured in Robin's Final Smash and Toon Link on the Spirit Stage. Latter being replaced by Alfonzo when using Toon Link on that stage. Why couldn't they do that with Viridi?

 

[TheCJBrine]

If Spirits disconfirm, I better see Porky or else I'm blaming all you "lol this character is disconfirmed you dummy" people for acting like you just have to shove disappointment in people's faces.

 

[Luigi The President]

All 3 of those have pretty obvious choices for who they’d add though.

Scorpion, Heihachi and Nightmare.

That wasn't really the point tho.

 

[Diem]

I wanna clarify what I was saying

My "logical pattern" was that the third party reps would all be protags

Which would make sense in most cases. Protagonists are generally the most recognizable and popular characters of their respective games, hence why it took so long for us to get some villains in Ultimate. Smash 4's DLC were protagonists as well, so overall that's not an unreasonable expectation.

Even though we know said leak had nothing to do with Smash, it still wouldn't surprise me if this came to pass.

Cygames is ****ing huge in Japan now, and they have the connection with Nintendo through Dragalia Lost, and Nintendo owning stock in the company.

It's huge in Japan, but how many people outside of Japan are going to care? International appeal is important when determining characters. Sakurai has considered and then disregarded characters multiple times because he knew that they wouldn't have any appeal outside of Japan (like Takamaru). Chrom was said to be added to appeal to Japanese players, and Dark Samus was said to be added to appeal to Western players.

The only way they could get away with that is due to the Fighter's Pass, since people have already purchased it, so they can throw in whoever and people will still have technically paid for it. But given Sakurai's attitude about "Don't buy it unless you're confident in the characters we'll add," I don't think he'd throw in a character he knew would be unappealing to large chunks of the playerbase.

Even then, part of the reason people considered a Cygames character to be possible is because of that mentioned business association with Nintendo, and the cynical belief most people had that Nintendo would make all the DLC characters corporate promotions. Then we got Joker, who is a character from one of the highest-profile Playstation games of 2017, so I think that line of reasoning no longer holds any merit at all.

Inkling and Joker are good middle-ground characters who appeal to both spheres. Splatoon is huge in Japan, and so is Persona. But they're also very popular in the West as well, so no side is left shaking their head that the character solely exists due to foreign appeal.

 

[Robertman2]

I gotchu fam

THE JACK BROS ARE COMIN

as spirits

 

[Idon]

Yet is featured in Robin's Final Smash and Toon Link on the Spirit Stage. Latter being replaced by Alfonzo when using Toon Link on that stage. Why couldn't they do that with Viridi?

As well versed as I am in Zelda lore, I don't recall any instance of Alfonzo being able to destroy entire cities with nature themed nuclear bombs.

 

[Bionichute]

I'd love to hear why it's confirmed. Go on.

nipper plant evolving into petey piranha. almost every other evolution has some sort of connection between the two forms, but petey piranha and nipper plants have never even been in the same game as each other, their only connection are being plants. this pretty heavily implies that there were initially plans for a piranha plant spirit, but it had to be cut when they decided to make him playable

of course we don't know when this happened (admittedly IF it happened), so it could have been a late change or an early change. dlc was also most likely planned well ahead of what we were told, so why would they even put in spirits for characters that are just going to have fighter spirits added in later, it would just make things more confusing

of course this all could just mean nothing since there's a high likelihood (or maybe just 50/50) of piranha plant being the only first party character in the dlc

 

[Impa4Smash]

As well versed as I am in Zelda lore, I don't recall any instance of Alfonzo being able to destroy entire cities with nature themed nuclear bombs.

You probably missed that side quest in Spirit Tracks

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Spirits Mode literally ends with every character getting their spirit back.

To think some story wise ''Spirit" reason is why a character won't get in now that we know that ending is hilarious to me.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

As well versed as I am in Zelda lore, I don't recall any instance of Alfonzo being able to destroy entire cities with nature themed nuclear bombs.

With how convoluted Zelda lore is, I wouldn't be surprised if it's mentioned somewhere in a footnote.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

As well versed as I am in Zelda lore, I don't recall any instance of Alfonzo being able to destroy entire cities with nature themed nuclear bombs.

I wasn't saying Alfonzo would replace Viridi though. They could just replace her with one of her minions instead.

 

[Deleted member]

Please stop assuming this

Sorry, Luigi.

All our characters are dead. The .PNG gods killed them.

 

[Idon]

I wasn't saying Alfonzo would replace Viridi though. They could just replace her with one of her minions instead.

I know, I'm just poking fun at grammatical ambiguity.

 

[Wademan94]

There was a Pokémon discussion while I was at work and I didn’t get the chance to sing my praises for Cynthia again?!

 

[TheCJBrine]

If y'all assume Spirits disconfirm, then just like Chunky, Viridi's dead.

Now, let's throw this silly argument away as we see how Pit's artwork for the NES Kid Icarus is a primary Spirit.

 

[Luigi The President]

nipper plant evolving into petey piranha. almost every other evolution has some sort of connection between the two forms, but petey piranha and nipper plants have never even been in the same game as each other, their only connection are being plants. this pretty heavily implies that there were initially plans for a piranha plant spirit, but it had to be cut when they decided to make him playable

of course we don't know when this happened (admittedly IF it happened), so it could have been a late change or an early change. dlc was also most likely planned well ahead of what we were told, so why would they even put in spirits for characters that are just going to have fighter spirits added in later, it would just make things more confusing

of course this all could just mean nothing since there's a high likelihood (or maybe just 50/50) of piranha plant being the only first party character in the dlc

Uh
"pretty heavily implies" is a...a big leap

Like...that's...the most out of the box reasoning I've seen yet.

I do believe that specific thing means nothing like you said so there was no need to get condescending about it when that's quite frankly a pretty bad reason. Also them being both plants from Mario is...a pretty good reasoning.

I mean I can get what you're saying but at the same time, there's plenty of variations on Piranha Plant they could've added if this was the case and it evolving to Petey would've been perfectly valid. So perhaps they just...chose not to add Piranha Plant like they didn't choose to add many other Mario minions.

TBR my only stake in this is wanting Geno, but yea.

spoilers

I don't think it's about the story reasoning at this point tbh.
Also tag them spoilers! Obvious, but still spoilers.