Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

Just so you know, the official tier lists for Smash are determined by Backroomers on this site, and they kinda know how Smash works...

 

[SoccerStar9001]

The best tier is Noipoi tier.

Where everyone is ranked by how much I enjoy drawing them.

NERF NOIPOI!

 

[Zinith]

The best tier is Noipoi tier.

Where everyone is ranked by how much I enjoy drawing them.

I'd be interested in that actually

 

[KMDP]

HAHAHAHAHAA

No.
In every single FG community I've been to, those tier lists have been lauded and laughed at, and for good reason.
Eventhubs is a great place if you're looking for fighting game news, not tier lists.

"Lauded" means "praised", Idon.
---
Anyway, I've spent most of the day playing World of Light, even though I intended to only play it in small bursts (though I did duck out every now and then, usually to enter the Spirit Board to try and get a spirit I needed for a Summon), I ended up finding it quite fun. After... many hours playing today, I tried Kirby's Classic Mode again (I couldn't get past King Dedede, mostly because when I was trying earlier in the game I never had coins to retry).

I managed to get all the way to the Final Boss without dying, and ended up dying twice to him (the first time I used a ticket, he was at half health, and I should have been able to finish him off, but then he decided to use all the attacks that are really difficult to avoid, and I don't know his patterns that well).

Regardless, that playthrough was still my highest scoring Classic Mode run, getting me 9.8 Intensity (I was actually at 9.9 before the Final Boss, due to steamrolling every other stage).

Before I forget, I actually got Ring Dong Dang (called Ring-a-Ding in the EU version) this morning.

 

[praline]

Falco is apparently top tier https://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssbu/

Not suprised at all i had a feeling he would be very strong this game.

The bloody game has been out for 2 whole days, can we cut it out with tiers for atleast a month?

 

[Pyra]

Just so you know, the official tier lists for Smash are determined by Backroomers on this site, and they kinda know how Smash works...

The backroom sounds too much like "the bathroom", which is something wholly irrelevant to Smash Brothers, and so they get tier.
Uh... that's somewhere between top and mid

 

[SoccerStar9001]

B

Falco is apparently top tier https://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssbu/

Not suprised at all i had a feeling he would be very strong this game.

Bayonetta is 40 ish. What.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The backroom sounds too much like "the bathroom", which is something wholly irrelevant to Smash Brothers, and so they get tier.
Uh... that's somewhere between top and mid

I mean, Wario issssss built on toilet humor, so...

 

[Idon]

I mean, Wario issssss built on toilet humor, so...

Smashboard's backroom is just Wario mains, smh.

 

[Shroob]

So, I heard there's challenges tied to online?

When I watched a video of all the challenges unlocked, I didn't see any of them.

 

[DevaAshera]

Reggie said the fighters are new to Smash. Probably meant the obvious - no veterans, but it’s unclear

Well "new to the series" can be taken a few ways, but that seems to be the general consensus.

No.

He said they'd be characters new to the franchise.

I don't know why people keep saying this...
He never said that... He said that the characters will be new to Smash...
Hear for yourself

Ah, my mistake, I read a couple articles saying that he said all of the DLC characters would be from new games or series that haven't been featured in Smash Bros yet.

Although, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. It'd definitely be a good reason for each character to come with a new stage & music. I mean, for example, if Tails or Eggman were DLC they wouldn't need a new stage or music since what's already there works for them.

 

[Noipoi]

I'd be interested in that actually

Here's a little taste

Spoiler

S TIER
I love drawing Pikachu. It's a simple design that's just nuanced enough to be interesting. I also love drawing animals, so that helps. I have pages upon pages of Pikachu drawings.
orb

A TIER
Drawing Mario is interesting, because there's a tons of ways you could do it. Gruff Plumber, Super Show, Paper, it's a fun time.
Luigi is a lanky noodle boy. I feel that on a deep, personal level.


B TIER
orb with ears.
DK's really goofy and that's fun to draw.
Link isn't that hard to draw, I usually have fun with him.
He's like a psychic Peanuts character. I love Peanuts.

C TIER
You'd think it'd be easy, but it's more difficult than it seems.
The suit is kinda complicated.


B TIER
I've drawn Fox like, 4 times my whole life.
Falcon, I love you. But you are not fun to draw at all.

 

[Pyra]

Falcon, I love you. But you are not fun to draw at all.

Button nipples though? How is that not fun???
I demand he shoot up to S tier. At least.

 

[WaxPython]

B
Bayonetta is 40 ish. What.

The list is very volatile this early in the games lifespan just use it to get a general idea of who's a good pick

 

[Blargg888]

orb

First you draw a circle.
Then you dot the eyes.
Add a great big smile.
And presto!
It's...

 

[Noipoi]

Button nipples though? How is that not fun???
I demand he shoot up to S tier. At least.

You're right, how could I be so foolish.

I forgot that nipples boosts a character up like, five tiers.

 

[Zinith]

You'd think it'd be easy, but it's more difficult than it seems.

Maybe it's because you make him more stylized...

 

[Noipoi]

Maybe it's because you make him more stylized...

Actually, the stylization makes it easier.

My main issue is the nose, it's so round I usually accidentally have it blocking all of his face. When I draw Yoshi I usually have it more oval-ish, so you can actually see his eyes lol

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Ah, my mistake, I read a couple articles saying that all of the DLC characters would be from new games or series that haven't been featured in Smash Bros yet.

Although, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. It'd definitely be a good reason for each character to come with a new stage & music. I mean, if Tails were DLC he wouldn't need a new stage or music since what's already there works for him.

Fair point

Here's a little taste
orb

I stink at drawing, but I can make a very decent Kirby.
I do believe that's why Sakurai and the crew at HAL designed him that way, If I recall correctly

 

[WaxPython]

Smash online is so rubbish i can't beleive they've gone backwards from smash 4.

Getting rid of gamemodes for preferences was a VERY bad move.

It is nearly impossible to find local 1v1s as the game seems to have a huge bias towards trying to fill in 4 player smash game modes.

And if you try to get the gamemodes you want, expect serious lag due to the lack of dedicated servers.

I actually have no idea what they were thinking implementing this system, will be dreadful for low population regions.

Considering we are now being charged for online this is very poor from Nintendo. I hope people in Japan speak out so they change this system ASAP

 

[Pyra]

Actually, the stylization makes it easier.

My main issue is the nose, it's so round I usually accidentally have it blocking all of his face. When I draw Yoshi I usually have it more oval-ish, so you can actually see his eyes lol

hey y'all i drew yoshi from the front

 

[PsySmasher]

Wait, why are talking about tier lists already?

It's been 2 days since the game came out.
We're not going to know who the best character is now, especially since there's 74 of them.
And isn't the official tier list created by people here? About how long does it take for a tier list to come out?

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

hey y'all i drew yoshi from the front
View attachment 182447

Great render of yoshi's nose

 

[Deleted member]

Don't see how it could be worse. Aside from adding several mechanics that the competitve scene had been begging for, the game moves along so much faster than Smash 4, meaning that it's easier for people to stay invested in watching the match.

A couple of things:

- No new faces. Pretty much unanimously the people we're gonna see the same players from Smash for come over to this game. At least every game had new faces with some players from past games. Ultimate feels like no new players are gonna be on the radars.

- Nerf culture still exists. I can't count how many times I've seen someone call something that works really good broken or OP. I'm almost convinced a good amount of Smash For players don't know the difference between what is good or broken, but the fact we still see people call stuff like Meta Knight "almost broken" ****ing scares me.

- Not taking advantage of the game's fullest extent. Sakurai made this the most hardcore-leaning Smash game and took a lot of the feedback, yet it looks like almost 80 to 90 percent of it won't be used. Hazard toggle? What's that? Omega and Battlefield versions? Now that's funny. I swear if we see Town and City/Smashville during this entire ****ing cycle, I'm gonna blow my brains out from hearing 9 P.M. one more goddamn time.

Those are the three biggest problems I've been seeing, and I honestly don't have much faith for this game having a long competitive cycle. You can add all the requests you could ever want, but handling what the problem is our what it could be is something the recent competitive scene just can't do, from what it looks like.

 

[SlickWylde]

So, how many people are actually playing, as opposed to just talking about what characters might come next? I noticed a weird pattern that I also get into: We get hyped for a new game. Characters are announced and we're so excited. But as soon as the game is released, we basically forget about how awesome their inclusion is, and start longing for new ones. I wonder why we do that.

So, favorite characters so far? Also, who do you think the most improved character from SM4SH to Ultimate is?

 

[WaxPython]

So, how many people are actually playing, as opposed to just talking about what characters might come next? I noticed a weird pattern that I also get into: We get hyped for a new game. Characters are announced and we're so excited. But as soon as the game is released, we basically forget about how awesome their inclusion is, and start longing for new ones. I wonder why we do that.

So, favorite characters so far? Also, who do you think the most improved character from SM4SH to Ultimate is?

Falco, he went from unusable to at least high tier new mechanics have been incredible.

 

[Idon]

So, how many people are actually playing, as opposed to just talking about what characters might come next?

Almost everyone who has a Switch.

I wonder why we do that.

One, because we've already acknowledged that their inclusion is awesome and have moved on to talk about other things like the character itself and new characters we want and
Two, because it's human nature to want what we don't have.

 

[Noipoi]

So, how many people are actually playing, as opposed to just talking about what characters might come next? I noticed a weird pattern that I also get into: We get hyped for a new game. Characters are announced and we're so excited. But as soon as the game is released, we basically forget about how awesome their inclusion is, and start longing for new ones. I wonder why we do that.

So, favorite characters so far? Also, who do you think the most improved character from SM4SH to Ultimate is?

I'm totally playing the game.
It's awesome.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Smash online is so rubbish i can't beleive they've gone backwards from smash 4.

Getting rid of gamemodes for preferences was a VERY bad move.

It is nearly impossible to find local 1v1s as the game seems to have a huge bias towards trying to fill in 4 player smash game modes.

And if you try to get the gamemodes you want, expect serious lag due to the lack of dedicated servers.

I actually have no idea what they were thinking implementing this system, will be dreadful for low population regions.

Considering we are now being charged for online this is very poor from Nintendo. I hope people in Japan speak out so they change this system ASAP

The game was blatantly rushed. I doubt they're gone for good. Though I could be wrong.

They had to spend more time getting an extremely large cast remotely working, and the bare minimum modes. I expect a bit more modes via patches. Whether or not it means a lot will return is harder to say. Datamines found coding for Home Run Contest, which I'm surprised didn't make it into base game. That's the only one I feel is a guarantee to come back.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Falco is apparently top tier https://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssbu/

Not suprised at all i had a feeling he would be very strong this game.

Eventhubs is NOT reliable when it comes to tier lists. I'd wait a while longer before any good tier lists come out.

 

[KMDP]

The backroom sounds too much like "the bathroom", which is something wholly irrelevant to Smash Brothers, and so they get tier.
Uh... that's somewhere between top and mid

It's not irrelevent when Timothy Bishop is playing Smash.
-------
Today I learned that the Japanese voice actress for Krystal is the same woman who plays Isaac.

Also, I had forgotten that Norio Wakamoto plays Metal Face in Japan (the Dragon Ball VAs in Smash just keep on piling up).

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

A couple of things:

- No new faces. Pretty much unanimously the people we're gonna see the same players from Smash for come over to this game. At least every game had new faces with some players from past games. Ultimate feels like no new players are gonna be on the radars.

- Nerf culture still exists. I can't count how many times I've seen someone call something that works really good broken or OP. I'm almost convinced a good amount of Smash For players don't know the difference between what is good or broken, but the fact we still see people call stuff like Meta Knight "almost broken" ****ing scares me.

- Not taking advantage of the game's fullest extent. Sakurai made this the most hardcore-leaning Smash game and took a lot of the feedback, yet it looks like almost 80 to 90 percent of it won't be used. Hazard toggle? What's that? Omega and Battlefield versions? Now that's funny. I swear if we see Town and City/Smashville during this entire ****ing cycle, I'm gonna blow my brains out from hearing 9 P.M. one more goddamn time.

Those are the three biggest problems I've been seeing, and I honestly don't have much faith for this game having a long competitive cycle. You can add all the requests you could ever want, but handling what the problem is our what it could be is something the recent competitive scene just can't do, from what it looks like.

All these are problems with the community in and of itself though. There's not much that can be done about the no new faces thing, at most I imagine some Melee players may give Ultimate a shot. Other than that all that could happen is that new people get good at the game and climb to the top. We're two days into release though, so it's impossible to tell starting now how likely that is. Ultimate is a phenomenon right now though, and competitive Smash is bigger now than ever, so I don't see the possibility of new blood as a low one.

The other two problems are things that can only be fixed in tangent with the competitive community's maturity, which is very lacking right now. Getting rid of the mindset/biases they had been holding onto with 4 is going to take a minute.

The game lends itself to competitive play though, far more so than Sm4sh and Brawl at the very least.

At the end of the day what will determine the competitive scene's health is support. If Nintendo REGULARLY releases balance patches and additional support then Smash Ultimate has a decent chance of having a prosperous competitive life.

 

[Captain Fun]

And if you try to get the gamemodes you want, expect serious lag due to the lack of dedicated servers.

As far as I know, most if not all fighting games don't use dedicated servers. It's not efficient in 1v1 scenarios because both parties would have to communicate through the server rather than send packets to each other directly.

If I had to hazard a guess, online connections are bad because everyone is playing through a wireless connection because Nintendo just really loves the idea of you having to buy an adapter.

 

[WaxPython]

The game was blatantly rushed. I doubt they're gone for good. Though I could be wrong.

They had to spend more time getting an extremely large cast remotely working, and the bare minimum modes. I expect a bit more modes via patches. Whether or not it means a lot will return is harder to say. Datamines found coding for Home Run Contest, which I'm surprised didn't make it into base game. That's the only one I feel is a guarantee to come back.

There's only so much that can be added in via patches. Switch isn't exactly known for 20gb updates.Personally I was hoping for content packs as well as DLC characters but doesn't seem that will be the case. Not sure what Nintendo will do but i hope they do the right thing and try to make the most complete game possible instead of focusing just on the DLC fighters.

Considering Sakurai's comments for how long it takes to make a single fighter I'm worried their focus has already shifted.

As far as I know, most if not all fighting games don't use dedicated servers. It's not efficient in 1v1 scenarios because both parties would have to communicate through the server rather than send packets to each other directly.

If I had to hazard a guess, online connections are bad because everyone is playing through a wireless connection because Nintendo just really loves the idea of you having to buy an adapter.

Yes that's very true about most fighting games however most also are 1v1. Smash usually has way more players which naturally impacts the connection.

You're 100 percent right about the wirless connections and even mine is wireless simply because the switch has no ethernet port which is a huge issue as the majority won't be buying the adaptors.

Really big problems Nintendo needs to address.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There's only so much that can be added in via patches. Switch isn't exactly known for 20gb updates.Personally I was hoping for content packs as well as DLC characters but doesn't seek that will be the case. Not sure what Nintendo will do but i hope they do the right thing and try to make the most complete game possible instead of focusing just on the DLC fighters.

Considering Sakurai's comments for how long it takes to make a single fighter I'm worried their focus has already shifted.

Agreed. I hope we at least get the most basic stuff, though. Home Run Contest, Stage Builder, some kind of Target Smash mode. The rest would be nice, but I can understand the weakness of too much data. It's why I don't expect everyone to come back next game.

 

[PlasmaDam]

I feel like geno is very unlikey at this point look at how stingy THEY are with Cloud and final fantasy 7. Do you really think squares cares about Geno to put him Smash over Another Final fanasty rep Sora or A Dragon quest Rep.

 

[Jasper the Tourist]

So, how many people are actually playing, as opposed to just talking about what characters might come next? I noticed a weird pattern that I also get into: We get hyped for a new game. Characters are announced and we're so excited. But as soon as the game is released, we basically forget about how awesome their inclusion is, and start longing for new ones. I wonder why we do that.

So, favorite characters so far? Also, who do you think the most improved character from SM4SH to Ultimate is?

I haven’t even gotten close trying everyone yet because my downtime for playing is limited. However, I tried Palutena and noticed a significant difference. Zelda seems to have gotten better. Young Link is excellent, although it has been so long since I played Melee, I can’t remember how good he was in that game. As someone who has played a lot of Jigglypuff over the years, I can tell that she has been somewhat buffed as well, which is great.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

This is such a great Smash.

Still nowhere near having everyone unlocked, but I managed to finally get Bowser down. Fifth time's the charm (third with Link), but I managed it.

Now I manged to get the one I've been waiting for - Pokémon Trainer, and I am unbelievably psyched to have my boi Squirtle back. He's so much fun to play, and I love being able to swap the mons out as the need arises. I can't tell you how much I missed this. Epic epic fun.

Speaking of, admins - when are we getting our

smilies?

Also, Ganondorf is an absolute beast, and I never realized what kind of an Eldritch horror Marx is.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

So, how many people are actually playing, as opposed to just talking about what characters might come next? I noticed a weird pattern that I also get into: We get hyped for a new game. Characters are announced and we're so excited. But as soon as the game is released, we basically forget about how awesome their inclusion is, and start longing for new ones. I wonder why we do that.

So, favorite characters so far? Also, who do you think the most improved character from SM4SH to Ultimate is?

Shulk is actually good now.

They changed the properties of the Monado Arts though, which is a blessing and a curse. They feel stronger, but forms like Shield, Speed, and Jump last shorter which is unfortunate.

Chrom is also a sleeper good character. He'll be mid-high tier, mark my words.

 

[Shroob]

The game was blatantly rushed. I doubt they're gone for good. Though I could be wrong.

They had to spend more time getting an extremely large cast remotely working, and the bare minimum modes. I expect a bit more modes via patches. Whether or not it means a lot will return is harder to say. Datamines found coding for Home Run Contest, which I'm surprised didn't make it into base game. That's the only one I feel is a guarantee to come back.

I used to think that HRC would come back.

But vaanrose said it best when it's probably just leftover data from Smash 4, though I'd love to be wrong.