Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Bradli Wartooth]

I would never have added WFT, Duck Hunt, ROB, or Rosalina. I might not have added Zelda/Sheik or Captain Falcon either.

Then it should already be clear to you that your argument against Ashley is 100% invalid

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Then it should already be clear to you that your argument against Ashley is 100% invalid

Don't tag me if you're just coming at me with this low-effort trash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Don't tag me if you're just coming at me with this low-effort trash.

Combined with this and your sig, I think you're secretly an anime villain.

No really..

That sig is a threat.

Holy ****.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Does anyone have a legitimate reason Ashley wouldn't make it in? I am interested in points against her, as we really only address the things in her favor.

EDIT: Being less toxic bc no need for it.

 

[Chandeelure]

Holy leaks, Batman!

Spoiler

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Holy leaks, Batman!

Spoiler

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Still don't know how he ended up looking like a potato with wings.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Holy leaks, Batman!

Spoiler

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Oh my God! I remember this! I hated it! Why would you remind me?!?!

As an avid Ridley supporter since Brawl I think this even made me say I'd rather not...

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Holy leaks, Batman!

Spoiler

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Forever thankful this leak was fake.

 

[Hinata]

Holy leaks, Batman!

Spoiler

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Wow, Metroid Prime 4 Ridley looks great.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

The ESRB one was a big deal to Nintendo as not only did it reveal things before they had a chance to do so themselves but in order to get the ESRB footage there was a break down in security or failing to properly secure information which was probably a bigger issue in Nintendo's mind then the displaying of the leak information itself.

I don't remember if we ever determined where the ESRB leak footage was obtained or who got their hands on it in the first place. If it was someone at the ESRB themselves, Nintendo, or somewhere in between.

On a personal note, I kind of wonder in hindsight how much I would have been excited when Shulk was revealed if I hadn't known from the ESRB leak frankly lol. Because if I recall correctly most of the community was dismissive of him prior to the ESRB leaks outside of the people who already supported him.

Well there was a couple other leaks that mentioned Shulk before the esrb leak. There was of course Gematsu, but the most prominent one was the Ninka Vaanrose leak seeing as that one didn't have anything going against it after the robin reveal. This leak also had Shulk and it had some evidence supporting it.

Does anyone have a legitimate reason Ashley wouldn't make it in? I am interested in points against her, as we really only address the things in her favor.

EDIT: Being less toxic bc no need for it.

As a person who supports her and thinks she has some favorable reasons she could get in, I guess the biggest thing against her would be the fact that there hasn't been any major developments for Ashley in regards to the Warioware games since Game & Wario. She certainly has made appearances like in Rhythm Heaven Megamix, and a lot of badges in the badge arcade, but we don't know if Sakurai would care about that.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I mean, the Excite franchise got 3 new games on Wii, one actually being Excited Bike: World Rally. That wasn't too long ago, really.

Not to mention Excite 3D being the first 3D Classic on 3DS. It also, like you said, gets referenced a lot (in games such as Mario Kart.) It's really not even a "retro franchise," since it has entries on the SNES, N64, and Wii.

Doesn't really matter as the Excite Biker was still seriously considered for an NES representative despite the fact that he already had at the time an upcoming game on the 64 which was revealed to the public at the pre-E3 conference on May 12 1999. The idea that a potential retro "rep" no longer counts as one due to having a new game was never true and thus Little Mac can still be considered a retro character.

 

[dezeray112]

Let's talk about something other than this fake leak. Could Ashley be promoted to playable in this game?

Its very hard to say which of the assist trophy characters especially Ashley could be promoted to being playable in a similar contrast to Little Mac. But other than that, I would generally like to see another one being promoted.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Takamaru is the most likely one IMO. He was intended to be in a couple of times and his main obstacle is pretty much not that much there now with his game localized.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

As a person who supports her and thinks she has some favorable reasons she could get in, I guess the biggest thing against her would be the fact that there hasn't been any major developments for Ashley in regards to the Warioware games since Game & Wario. She certainly has made appearances like in Rhythm Heaven Megamix, and a lot of badges in the badge arcade, but we don't know if Sakurai would care about that.

I could see where the lack of personal development within her own games could be an issue, but Sakurai himself already implemented her in several different ways within Smash Wii U. Unless he decides she's declined too much in recent years, I doubt she'd go overlooked. I think her retained popularity in things outside of Warioware could work heavily in her favor, and there is a new Warioware game on the horizion.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Idea, faking leaks has become harder as it's become less belivable and acceptable that people would film on a potato quality camera offscreen without using screen capture tech.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I still have a gut feeling that Ashley, Takamaru, and Isabelle have a pretty strong chance of being upgraded to playable.

The fact that they are both Mii Costumes and ATs makes it seem like Sakurai thinks of them as a.) important or at least memorable characters from their series and b.) characters people want to play as (hence the costumes).

Like I said, it's just a feeling... but I stand by it.

Doesn't really matter as the Excite Biker was still seriously considered for an NES representative despite the fact that he already had at the time an upcoming game on the 64 which was revealed to the public at the pre-E3 conference on May 12 1999. The idea that a potential retro "rep" no longer counts as one due to having a new game was never true and thus Little Mac can still be considered a retro character.

I mean there is also no slot for a "retro rep" or rules to how many can or should be included in a Smash game. The only Smash game where we KNOW a character was added to specifically to represent the Famicom classic era was Melee with Ice Climbers.

I mean, if you want to argue, Duck Hunt was as much a hardware rep (zapper) as a retro pick, so Smash 4 had no pure "retro" character.

In any case, my point was that Excite as a franchise has a lot going for it and could make it in on merits besides just being "retro."

 

[Hinata]

I could see where the lack of personal development within her own games could be an issue, but Sakurai himself already implemented her in several different ways within Smash Wii U. Unless he decides she's declined too much in recent years, I doubt she'd go overlooked. I think her retained popularity in things outside of Warioware could work heavily in her favor, and there is a new Warioware game on the horizion.

Hopefully she's not an Assist Trophy again in this game. I feel like once a character is an Assist Trophy twice in a row, they're doomed to stay that way unless something major happens regarding the character and/or their franchise.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I still have a gut feeling that Ashley, Takamaru, and Isabelle have a pretty strong chance of being upgraded to playable.

The fact that they are both Mii Costumes and ATs makes it seem like Sakurai thinks of them as a.) important or at least memorable characters from their series and b.) characters people want to play as (hence the costumes).

Like I said, it's just a feeling... but I stand by it.

Interesting thought. To further add to this, I personally believe that the newcomer selection for Switch will mostly revolve around ballot choices and stuff from the 2014-2016 era and both Ashley and Isabelle have made notable appearances during this era.

I mean there is also no slot for a "retro rep" or rules to how many can or should be included in a Smash game. The only Smash game where we KNOW a character was added to specifically to represent the Famicom classic era was Melee with Ice Climbers.

I mean, if you want to argue, Duck Hunt was as much a hardware rep (zapper) as a retro pick, so Smash 4 had no pure "retro" character.

In any case, my point was that Excite as a franchise has a lot going for it and could make it in on merits besides just being "retro."

I guess that's fair.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Hopefully she's not an Assist Trophy again in this game. I feel like once a character is an Assist Trophy twice in a row, they're doomed to stay that way unless something major happens regarding the character and/or their franchise.

I mean, charizard was a pokeball twice in a row, I'd say there's still hope. Come to think of it, charizard has appeared in every smash to date.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Does anyone have a legitimate reason Ashley wouldn't make it in? I am interested in points against her, as we really only address the things in her favor.

EDIT: Being less toxic bc no need for it.

She makes sense; she seems to be very popular in Japan, and she's pretty popular everywhere else too. She was notable enough to get both an assist trophy and Mii costume, and she also had a large presence in the Badge Arcade. She could also be unique by being a spell caster. It's mostly a matter of if she would take priority over other potential newcomers.

 

[Curious Villager]

Hopefully she's not an Assist Trophy again in this game. I feel like once a character is an Assist Trophy twice in a row, they're doomed to stay that way unless something major happens regarding the character and/or their franchise.

I mean, Charizard was a Pokeball Pokemon twice, but I can see what you mean.

'd

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

She makes sense; she seems to be very popular in Japan, and she's pretty popular everywhere else too. She was notable enough to get both an assist trophy and Mii costume, and she also had a large presence in the Badge Arcade. She could also be unique by being a spell caster. It's mostly a matter of if she would take priority over other potential newcomers.

Well we've said in this thread multiple times that there's not too many, if any, Nintendo All Stars who aren't in the game. With Nintendo's heavy promotion of her (especially considering it's been outside of her own game), I think she also makes a lot of sense to take priority over many of the commonly suggested newcomers.

 

[Hinata]

I mean, charizard was a pokeball twice in a row, I'd say there's still hope. Come to think of it, charizard has appeared in every smash to date.

I mean, Charizard was a Pokeball Pokemon twice, but I can see what you mean.

'd

Fair point, both of you. Truthfully, I had forgotten about that.

But anyway, I feel like Ashley's got some really good chances this time around. If she hadn't been an Assist Trophy in 4, part of me feels like she would've been DLC in that game.

 

[NintendoKnight]

I mean, Charizard was a Pokeball Pokemon twice, but I can see what you mean.

'd

Are you saying that anyone who manages to be an Assist Trophy twice is GUARANTEED a spot?!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH

PREPARE YOURSELF!

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Also, for those of us who take advertisement into heavy consideration when looking at potential newcomers, there is a new Warioware coming out in July. Obviously the "that came along too late to be used in consideration for Smash" argument can be used here, but all Sakurai would really need to know in regards to Warioware is that the series is continuing to make a new playable character worth considering.

Side note, I would love it if Ashley got her own eShop platformer game to help learn more about her as a character.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, the DK series needs and Assist Trophy and I feel like FE could use more assist trophies. Lyn being the only one is not that good, how about more like Hector?
Hector could be a playable fighter too....

Don't tag me if you're just coming at me with this low-effort trash.

Delete your signature, Sakurai is a good person.

 

[Deleted member]

Let's talk about something other than this fake leak. Could Ashley be promoted to playable in this game?

Could she? Yeah.

Will she? Doubt it.
Yeah, she's the most popular WarioWare character after Wario himself (maybe even more than him within context of the WarioWare franchise specifically depending on who you ask), but she's held that title for at least a decade now. Hell, she got some talk during Brawl speculation, with her theme on the Dojo!! website adding fuel to the fire.
But for all that popularity, all it ended up getting her is an Assist role in Smash 4 and a DLC Mii Costume, years after she was first given discussion.

I don't think things will change.

 

[Hinata]

Could she? Yeah.

Will she? Doubt it.
Yeah, she's the most popular WarioWare character after Wario himself (maybe even more than him within context of the WarioWare franchise specifically depending on who you ask), but she's held that title for at least a decade now. Hell, she got some talk during Brawl speculation, with her theme on the Dojo!! website adding fuel to the fire.
But for all that popularity, all it ended up getting her is an Assist role in Smash 4 and a DLC Mii Costume, years after she was first given discussion.

I don't think things will change.

I realize my bias towards Ashley could be blinding me towards things, but I feel like the fact that she received an Assist Trophy and a Mii Costume in Smash 4 only point more towards her inclusion. It proves that Sakurai wants to represent her in the game as much as possible, and the logical next step in this ladder of representation is a playable inclusion.

I would argue that characters like Takamaru and Isabelle are rather likely for the same reasons.

 

[Bowserlick]

Ashley's hair looks like wings. She should flap her wing hair during her jumps.

 

[Ura]

Are you saying that anyone who manages to be an Assist Trophy twice is GUARANTEED a spot?!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH

PREPARE YOURSELF!

Ayy! Infantry & Tanks confirmed!

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Could she? Yeah.

Will she? Doubt it.
Yeah, she's the most popular WarioWare character after Wario himself (maybe even more than him within context of the WarioWare franchise specifically depending on who you ask), but she's held that title for at least a decade now. Hell, she got some talk during Brawl speculation, with her theme on the Dojo!! website adding fuel to the fire.
But for all that popularity, all it ended up getting her is an Assist role in Smash 4 and a DLC Mii Costume, years after she was first given discussion.

I don't think things will change.

I mean you definitely aren't wrong. Smash game history doesn't really work in her favor. However her role in Smash did significantly increase between Brawl and Smash 4, and Ashley is more significant than quite a few popular choices. I think she suffers from not really being an "all star", but there really aren't any real "all stars" getting in her way, either. I suppose time will tell.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Honestly, the DK series needs and Assist Trophy and I feel like FE could use more assist trophies. Lyn being the only one is not that good, how about more like Hector?
Hector could be a playable fighter too....

If I recall correctly, Mario is the only series to have more than one Assist Trophy.

 

[Troykv]

If I recall correctly, Mario is the only series to have more than one Assist Trophy.

Zelda (4) and Kid Icarus (2) also have more than one AT.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

If I recall correctly, Mario is the only series to have more than one Assist Trophy.

Metroid has multiple as well, Dark Samus and Mother Brain.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Zelda (4) and Kid Icarus (2) also have more than one AT.

So for Zelda, you have:

• Tingle
• Midna

Okay, I was wrong.

Metroid has multiple as well, Dark Samus and Mother Brain.

And the Metroid itself.

 

[DJ3DS]

Can someone explain to me what Ashley could even do? As stated before, in her games it is effectively nothing.

Please don't respond to this by asking a rhetorical "what does ROB/DHD/WFT/whomever do?" in their game. It is a stupid argument because if it applies, it applies to every character. We can all give a list of characters who are bigger than Ashley, and we can all argue that they bring as much to the table because "muh Sakurai".

This isn't just an attack post. I'm 100% ready to listen to what her supporters think would make her interesting (none of my mains have ever been from games I really cared about) but I do think it is on the supporters of any character to give us a demonstrable reason why that character would be interesting other than "trust Sakurai". He couldn't come up with an interesting moveset for Chrom, after all.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Can someone explain to me what Ashley could even do? As stated before, in her games it is effectively nothing.

Please don't respond to this by asking a rhetorical "what does ROB/DHD/WFT/whomever do?" in their game. It is a stupid argument because if it applies, it applies to every character. We can all give a list of characters who are bigger than Ashley, and we can all argue that they bring as much to the table because "muh Sakurai".

This isn't just an attack post. I'm 100% ready to listen to what her supporters think would make her interesting (none of my mains have ever been from games I really cared about) but I do think it is on the supporters of any character to give us a demonstrable reason why that character would be interesting other than "trust Sakurai". He couldn't come up with an interesting moveset for Chrom, after all.

Here is her Wiki page, which is abundant with ideas for her. She would probably utilize Red in her moveset.

https://www.mariowiki.com/Ashley_and_Red

"As seen in the WarioWare games, Ashley can use various spells (stated to be "the darkest spells" in her theme song) and potions. When she is using magic or when she is angered, her hair turns grey-white, and her eyes glow red. In addition to casting spells with a wand, she can shoot magic blasts from her hand as seen in Game & Wario. ........ Red can levitate and transform into small objects to help Ashley, such as a broom or her wand. The Ashley 3DS theme and its accompanying webcomic shows Red is able to assume a winged, bat-like form."

EDIT: Well, we all make mistakes, and I forgot to add the Wiki link after I said "Here is her Wiki page". Silly me.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Can someone explain to me what Ashley could even do? As stated before, in her games it is effectively nothing.

Please don't respond to this by asking a rhetorical "what does ROB/DHD/WFT/whomever do?" in their game. It is a stupid argument because if it applies, it applies to every character. We can all give a list of characters who are bigger than Ashley, and we can all argue that they bring as much to the table because "muh Sakurai".

This isn't just an attack post. I'm 100% ready to listen to what her supporters think would make her interesting (none of my mains have ever been from games I really cared about) but I do think it is on the supporters of any character to give us a demonstrable reason why that character would be interesting other than "trust Sakurai". He couldn't come up with an interesting moveset for Chrom, after all.

Actually there's quite some things she can do based on cutscenes. She grew a monster plant one time, she has her broom for a recovery, and there's her little imp who can act as an assist character for her.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Can someone explain to me what Ashley could even do? As stated before, in her games it is effectively nothing.

Please don't respond to this by asking a rhetorical "what does ROB/DHD/WFT/whomever do?" in their game. It is a stupid argument because if it applies, it applies to every character. We can all give a list of characters who are bigger than Ashley, and we can all argue that they bring as much to the table because "muh Sakurai".

This isn't just an attack post. I'm 100% ready to listen to what her supporters think would make her interesting (none of my mains have ever been from games I really cared about) but I do think it is on the supporters of any character to give us a demonstrable reason why that character would be interesting other than "trust Sakurai". He couldn't come up with an interesting moveset for Chrom, after all.

Magic. She is a witch after all. Magic has a lot of possibilities.

But if you want a specific type of thing she could do with her magic. The most obvious choice would be Hexs since she is a witch. Essentially she would be a debuffer type character. Causing stat drops with specific attacks.

 

[Wyoming]

WarioWare and Mother also have two ATs.

DK definitely needs one at least. So many options....Cranky, Candy and Funky are assist characters in DK most of the time. Rambi, Krusha, Enguarde, Lanky, Kiddy, Chunky could all offer something out of left-field.