Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MoonlitIllusion]

If I had to guess a Smash 4 newcomer being surprisingly cut, I would narrow it down to: Greninja, Bowser Jr., and Mewtwo/Lucas.

Greninja: could suffer similar to Mewtwo and be low priority for a new Pokemon, just about missing out.
Bowser Jr.: low priority again and the alternative costumes take too long for development. Although, I imagine they'd simply cut the Koopalings rather than the whole character. But since he barely made it last time, it could happen again.
Mewtwo/Lucas: they were cut before, after all....I don't wish to have to pay for them again on a side note. Either put them in or they're gone. Hopefully the former.

If we even get cuts I'd say Bowser Jr is pretty safe, he's relevant, unique and a fairly big character in the mario series and Mewtwo got back in because of fan demand, they probably don't wanna piss off the fanbase again lol. Corrin, greninja, Lucas and Roy are probably most likely to get cut imo.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Duck Hunt Dog always seemed like such a super obvious retro newcomer somewhere down the line.

I'll never understand why people treated him as such a shocker either. Dude literally was bundled with the NES in some countries.

 

[Wyoming]

People thought ROB meant ROB 64 from Star Fox, as the actual ROB was obviously deconfirmed as he was a regular enemy in SSE. The ****storm that followed when ROB was shown to be playable from the early copies that was leaking the game was something else, the poor robot instantly became the scapegoat of every fanbase who's character didn't get in.

Wolf was also got some heat, since well people assumed the worse with him.

edit: ah yes, so did Toon Link and Jigglypuff. The latter alongside Lucario really made the Mewtwo fans a salt mine.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Man the Landmasters that dropped when Brawl's roster was leaked.

 

[Morbi]

If we even get cuts I'd say Bowser Jr is pretty safe, he's relevant, unique and a fairly big character in the mario series and Mewtwo got back in because of fan demand, they probably don't wanna piss off the fanbase again lol. Corrin, greninja, Lucas and Roy are probably most likely to get cut imo.

If they did not learn after three times, I am just not even sure what makes people believe they will finally realize that Mewtwo is one of the most popular characters. If anything, the money they made off of him is a great incentive to keep him out again.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Wolf was also got some heat, since well people assumed the worse with him.

edit: ah yes, so did Toon Link and Jigglypuff. The latter alongside Lucario really made the Mewtwo fans a salt mine.

People thought Lucario replaced Mewtwo.

 

[Wyoming]

They sure did. He never did, but he was however higher priority. I can see why people would say "well Lucario replaced him" because while not true, it can be implied to be.

Same for Roy and Ike at the time.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

They sure did. He never did, but he was however higher priority. I can see why people would say "well Lucario replaced him" because while not true, it can be implied to be.

Same for Roy and Ike at the time.

It's basically because they are humanoid Pokemon with movies that people assumed that Lucario was the Mewtwo of Brawl.

Ike and Roy are spiky-haired sword users from newer games at the time of Brawl and Melee respectively so that is where the theory that Ike replaced Roy came form. Ike and Roy also share the same Neutral B, same with Mewtwo and Lucario.

 

[Yellowlord]

So it seems like we've mostly come to a general agreement that if Nintendo takes down the video by Monday, it'll be real, and if not, then it's a fake?

Honestly, I'm still mainly hopeful for some news related to the game sometime next week.

 

[Ridel]

So it seems like we've mostly come to a general agreement that if Nintendo takes down the video by Monday, it'll be real, and if not, then it's a fake?

Honestly, I'm still mainly hopeful for some news related to the game sometime next week.

Nah I'm saying it's fake right now. There are just too many issues with Spring Man alone to convince me it is real.

 

[Blargg888]

You know what they say, "Hindsight is always 20/20."

It's pretty easy to say that something seemed obvious 4 years after it happened, but while these things are happening, there's definitely a lot of room for uncertainty.

I don't think anyone is to blame for not predicting Dark Pit as his own character, or for not expecting/wanting DHD. At the time, we really couldn't be sure about anything, as the Smash 4 speculation period was a roller-coaster of surprises for everyone involved.

2.5 whole years of speculation really does give birth to a lot of crazy theories, predictions, situations, etc.

Assuming this Smash game doesn't get delayed and does, in fact, release this year, our speculation period will be noticeably shorter than even Smash 4's pre-DLC period.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's basically because they are humanoid Pokemon with movies.

Also the Neutral B. Till today, Lucario's Aura Sphere still resembles Melee Mewtwo's Shadow Ball more than current Mewtwo's Shadow Ball. With the whole hitbox when the energy ball charges up and all I mean.

Ike also had Eruption which today, still screams Roy to me. Ike has never ever used a move like that in his own game, FE Path of Radiance, and he only became the 'Hero of Blue Flames' in Radiant Dawn. Thus the move actually made more sense in Smash 4, which I am glad was fixed.

I can see why one would argue Lucario and Ike replaced Mewtwo and Roy. In a way, it's after all a new face that took priority over a older veteran. However the only downright replacement character in Smash history has been Toon Link, who replaced Young Link. And don't forget that Lucas was intended to replace Ness in Melee if MOTHER 3 came to either N64 or GameCube.

 

[Curious Villager]

That would be odd. As a R.O.B. and Game and Watch hater, I have literally no reason to hate on an iconic character such as Duck Hunt Dog, especially one that was incorporated so creatively.

When it comes to Smash. I've noticed that the fans often put the most hopes for their favourite characters for the unlockable characters, particularly in hopes that Sakurai may have been saving their favourites for last. Which tends to backfire and why characters like R.O.B. get the worst end of it, unless they have bigger triggers like Dark Pit to fall back on....

Looking through past Smash games, Sakurai seems to tend to reveal the more popularly demanded characters first and for the starting cast while leaving surprise, clone or characters he had time and difficulties in implementing (Lucario, Bowser jr), for unlockable. Of course there have been a few exceptions such as Ice Climbers, Wii Fit Trainer (and probably Mewtwo although his history has been a little weird).

This sort of reveal convention may also happen again for Smash Switch as this has arguably been the case for the Smash series since the original N64 game. (Or maybe not, who knows what they will do this time.)

 

[Deleted member]

So it seems like we've mostly come to a general agreement that if Nintendo takes down the video by Monday, it'll be real, and if not, then it's a fake?

I do see one problem with that idea. The video isn’t a YouTube link and isn’t being spread around much, meaning Nintendo might not know the vid is even up.

 

[Morbi]

You know what they say, "Hindsight is always 20/20."

It's pretty easy to say that something seemed obvious 4 years after it happened, but while these things are happening, there's definitely a lot of room for uncertainty.

I don't think anyone is to blame for not predicting Dark Pit as his own character, or for not expecting/wanting DHD. At the time, we really couldn't be sure about anything, as the Smash 4 speculation period was a roller-coaster of surprises for everyone involved.

2.5 whole years of speculation really does give birth to a lot of crazy theories, predictions, situations, etc.

Assuming this Smash game doesn't get delayed and does, in fact, release this year, our speculation period will be noticeably shorter than even Smash 4's pre-DLC period.

You can go back and look at my post history (probably... not sure how it works), the second I figured out Duck Hunt was Nintendo, I was confused that he was not already in the game and Dark Pit had three SUPER BLATANTLY OBVIOUS HINTS. There was no room for uncertainty if you knew what you were talking about.

Say whatever you want to save face, it was obvious back then if people let go of their biases. Simple as that, and I constantly said it back then too, just to make everyone feel idiotic in the face of reality.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You can go back and look at my post history (probably... not sure how it works), the second I figured out Duck Hunt was Nintendo, I was confused that he was not already in the game and Dark Pit had three SUPER BLATANTLY OBVIOUS HINTS. There was no room for uncertainty if you knew what you were talking about.

I'm not sure about , but I do definetly remember you advocating and stating that was going to be in, so i can vouch for that. You were really happy at the idea of rubbing it in everyone's faces.

 

[Morbi]

I'm not sure about , but I do definetly remember you advocating and stating that was going to be in, so i can vouch for that. You were really happy at the idea of rubbing it in everyone's faces.

I was too late to the Duck Hunt party, as I stated, I only figured out that he was Nintendo once he was leaked. To be completely fair, everyone thought the leak was fake other than basically Blue Pikmin. I do not take nearly as much credit for that one, but it was so obvious once I learned that fact that I was not shocked in the slightest and had I known, the only reason I would be skeptical about his inclusion would have been solely for the fact that he should have been added in Melee or Brawl and that, if there was a reason for not including him, that reason would likely not change.

 

[Hinata]

Honestly, I'm still mainly hopeful for some news related to the game sometime next week.

Every day I wake up and check YouTube and Twitter first thing to see if Nintendo announced any new Directs or something.

Every day starts with disappointment.

 

[DraginHikari]

I do see one problem with that idea. The video isn’t a YouTube link and isn’t being spread around much, meaning Nintendo might not know the vid is even up.

Nintendo is also more known for their use of Content ID which isn't designed to tackle something like that particular video.

 

[Morbi]

Every day I wake up and check YouTube and Twitter first thing to see if Nintendo announced any new Directs or something.

Every day starts with disappointment.

The inherent issue with that, is that they seem to prefer announcing Directs a few days before. It is not as though they will come out and say, "we have a Direct planned for 4/20" because that is about a week out. We would get that announcement on the 17th or 18th, if not the 19th hypothetically. So, to that end, I am not even holding my breath.

 

[Hinata]

The inherent issue with that, is that they seem to prefer announcing Directs a few days before. It is not as though they will come out and say, "we have a Direct planned for 4/20" because that is about a week out. We would get that announcement on the 17th or 18th, if not the 19th hypothetically. So, to that end, I am not even holding my breath.

True, but I'm just saying that every day, I look for any announcements at all. I don't care when the event takes place, I just want Nintendo to announce when we can expect to see more news, even if they just come out and say "Hey, don't expect anything until E3."

 

[vaanrose]

So it seems like we've mostly come to a general agreement that if Nintendo takes down the video by Monday, it'll be real, and if not, then it's a fake?

Honestly, I'm still mainly hopeful for some news related to the game sometime next week.

Which is why if it's real and they're smart they wouldn't take it down. Avoid the Barbra Streisand effect. Especially when 90% of the fandom instantly called it fake to begin with.

 

[Deleted member]

Duck Hunt Dog always seemed like such a super obvious retro newcomer somewhere down the line.

I'll never understand why people treated him as such a shocker either. Dude literally was bundled with the NES in some countries.

People thought he lacked moveset potential, which they were obviously wrong about.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Nintendo is also more known for their use of Content ID which isn't designed to tackle something like that particular video.

Its a lot harder when the video is off screen and has no audio. Thats why most shows uploaded on youtube are pitched up and out of crop.

 

[Morbi]

People thought he lacked moveset potential, which they were obviously wrong about.

Oh, that same old tired argument that is going to apply to half of our newcomers until they are proven wrong yet again. I love it.

 

[N3ON]

Saying any surprise character was "super obvious" is revisionism.

 

[Ridel]

Which is why if it's real and they're smart they wouldn't take it down. Avoid the Barbra Streisand effect. Especially when 90% of the fandom instantly called it fake to begin with.

The issue was not the pictures those were not taken down. It was the videos with gameplay of Shulk and Bowser Jr that were, and those were basically irrefutable evidence that it was real.

 

[Starcutter]

Oh man, I can't believe how obvious Wii Fit trainer was in hindsight! Super obvious.

-everyone who is wrong

 

[Blargg888]

Say whatever you want to save face, it was obvious back then if people let go of their biases. Simple as that, and I constantly said it back then too, just to make everyone feel idiotic in the face of reality.

I'm not trying to save face, I'm not sure where you got that.

I'm just saying it's kind of a jerk move to hold things like this over other people when they just didn't know or want the characters.

And maybe I can sorta understand gloating about people not catching onto hints, but putting people at fault for not wanting/expecting a character and being upset about it doesn't make much sense to me.

The issue was not the pictures those were not taken down. It was the videos with gameplay of Shulk and Bowser Jr that were, and those were basically irrefutable evidence that it was real.

I believe vaanrose was referring to the current leak videos, not the ESRB ones.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Saying any surprise character was "super obvious" is revisionism.

My favourite part is whenever some people say that the WFT was predictable, especially given she wasn't even the main character of Wii Fit, it was the Miis. She was an important NPC though.

 

[dezeray112]

My favourite part is whenever some people say that the WFT was predictable, especially given she wasn't even the main character of Wii Fit (it was the Miis).

Wii Fit Trainer was someone that I was not exactly expecting to be playable in a Smash game, but I was pleasantly surprised with her reveal.

Anyways, I do hope that we do get more info on this game soon.

 

[A Distant Demon]

My favourite part is whenever some people say that the WFT was predictable, especially given she wasn't even the main character of Wii Fit, was the Miis. She was an important NPC though.

I would argue it was the balance board.

 

[Deleted member]

Has anyone even tried to contact the guy behind the "leak"?

 

[Opossum]

You can go back and look at my post history (probably... not sure how it works), the second I figured out Duck Hunt was Nintendo, I was confused that he was not already in the game and Dark Pit had three SUPER BLATANTLY OBVIOUS HINTS. There was no room for uncertainty if you knew what you were talking about.

Say whatever you want to save face, it was obvious back then if people let go of their biases. Simple as that, and I constantly said it back then too, just to make everyone feel idiotic in the face of reality.

The fact that Dark Pit didn't get a splash card despite every other newcomer, including Lucina, getting one made Dark Pit anything but "super blatantly obvious." There was a good enough reason to doubt him.

Or was Metal Face super blatantly obviously playable due to appearing at the end of Shulk's trailer?

 

[Fenriraga]

I'd once again like to point out that and were all going to be alternate costumes for the longest time. People speculated that about Dark Pit for the longest time too, as techincally Dark Pit was already a thing as far back as Brawl with Pit's alt color, despite some noteable differences in the final design. Considering Lucina had a Splash Screen and gameplay yet Dark Pit did not made it a pretty reasonable doubt. Especially considering Metal Face and several other end-trailer stingers. The only reason Doc wasn't showcased like Lucina was because he was a secret character.

Plus if we're being real here, Dark Pit in particular may as well just be an alt costume because the differences between he and Pit are so miniscule that even the tier list just lumps them in as being interchangeable.

 

[Hinata]

Has anyone even tried to contact the guy behind the "leak"?

The dude was an anon on 4chan, and the thread he posted the leak in was locked yesterday. I don't think it's even possible to contact him at this point.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Has anyone even tried to contact the guy behind the "leak"?

It was an anonymous post on 4chan thats since been deleted. Theres no one to contact.

The fact that Dark Pit didn't get a splash card despite every other newcomer, including Lucina, getting one made Dark Pit anything but "super blatantly obvious." There was a good enough reason to doubt him.

Dark Pit is considered a veteran on the Smash Bros website since he was in Brawl. Lucina was under the newcomer tag so it wasn't a clone/ costume thing.

 

[Fenriraga]

Even if we could somehow contact the "Leaker" I sincerely doubt he'd say anything since he went silent for the remainder of the 4chan thread (Outside of a thread bump presumably according to some other posts). Which, if you were actually leaking sensitive information like this, would be the smart thing to do fake or otherwise.

 

[Spatman]

the leak is fake for a super simple reason: look at feet and legs of spring man during his idle: they are completely fixed. It's like the entire springman is hold by an invisible hand that moves him back and forth. The character is a stationary figure like for example an amiibo

 

[viewtifulduck82]

A lot of people seem to want dark pit cut, but I'm actually excited for his return. Really looking forward to him reaching semi clone status and seeing what they do for him. People seem to think because he's a pit clone, it makes sense for them to fight alike, but dark pit doesnt really use any of the weapons he used in uprising.

Would be pretty easy to start him off too, seeing as his model is pretty much the same as Pit's.

Have we had a clone ever return exactly the same as in a previous installment? I know there's doc, but mario changed in such a way from melee, that decloned doc indirectly.